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Faux Shoah posted:Like Attawapiskat maybe? Because there's not enough money for both, you see. We have more important things to spend money on, like making sure there are no maple leaves on our military personnel
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Jul 10, 2013 07:29
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Foreign aid is a good thing because it's essentially the international version of the social democracy we talk up in this thread a lot. When you recognize things like socioeconomic inequality being bad for en entire society, both rich and poor, on a national level, it's only a small jump of logic to make the same connection on an international level. We're an incredibly wealthy society, we have the resources to spend on both things, we just choose not to spend them on both things satisfactorily because we/our government values things like tax cuts more. For the record, the 2013 budget has $280.1B of spending in it. $300M over five years is $60M a year. That makes foreign aid to Palestine a whole 0.02% of the federal budget. Even before Harper slashed CIDA's budget and then merged it with DFAIT, making it much harder to figure out how much is being spent on it, CIDA's budget was only $5B. At current spending levels, that would be a whopping 1.7% of the budget. If we can't afford all the spending we want at home with 98.3% of the budget, let alone with 99.98% of it, then I think we have bigger problems than tiny amounts of foreign aid. Large numbers don't mean anything without context, because the human brain is godawful at dealing with them.
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Jul 10, 2013 11:43
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It's kind of harsh to deride the foreign aid policy by saying people born/living in Canada deserve our money more than any other human. Not to mention that foreign and domestic aid aren't a zero sum game and that money put into foreign aid has little bearing on domestic money (and vice versa). At half and 1/3 of our population respectively, Netherlands and Sweden give roughly the same amount of foreign aid and it hasn't hurt other areas of society for them. Don't blame the foreign aid system for domestic shortcomings, blame the government in charge for those shortcomings.
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Jul 10, 2013 12:21
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MagicCube posted:It's kind of harsh to deride the foreign aid policy by saying people born/living in Canada deserve our money more than any other human. Not to mention that foreign and domestic aid aren't a zero sum game and that money put into foreign aid has little bearing on domestic money (and vice versa). At half and 1/3 of our population respectively, Netherlands and Sweden give roughly the same amount of foreign aid and it hasn't hurt other areas of society for them. Don't blame the foreign aid system for domestic shortcomings, blame the government in charge for those shortcomings. Don't forget to blame the people, and Canada generally. Definitely the government of the day as well, but lets not think for a moment this moral indifference in Canada is not driven by something significantly more deep rooted. It has been going on for god knows how long, government to government party to party once they govern. People vote for it/those parties in droves and that's why it results in the effects voted for. It's a shame, really.
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Jul 10, 2013 12:37
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MagicCube posted:It's kind of harsh to deride the foreign aid policy by saying people born/living in Canada deserve our money more than any other human. A lot of the money currently going to Canada is just to sustain the way we're living right now instead of trying to make it better while we toss foreign aid money to countries that could care less if we do so. I'd be all for giving foreign aid money if the mental healthcare in the country was at anything remotely an acceptable level and we finally rehauled our education system. Until then, any dollar leaving the country bothers me. I understand it's a small slice when you consider all of Canada's spending but, "The Conservatives suck at handling our money anyway so what's $300M going to Palestine anyway" is a really bizarre way to look at things. "Tread water as a country but feel good about yourself when you drop a donation can to another country" isn't exactly how I want to feel as a Canadian.
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Jul 10, 2013 13:33
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:A lot of the money currently going to Canada is just to sustain the way we're living right now instead of trying to make it better while we toss foreign aid money to countries that could care less if we do so. I'd be all for giving foreign aid money if the mental healthcare in the country was at anything remotely an acceptable level and we finally rehauled our education system. Until then, any dollar leaving the country bothers me. I understand it's a small slice when you consider all of Canada's spending but, "The Conservatives suck at handling our money anyway so what's $300M going to Palestine anyway" is a really bizarre way to look at things. So then basically you're saying that other, much worse off, nations shouldn't receive foreign aid from Canada because we still have problems to take care of here? First of all that's incredibly callous and secondly do you not get that foreign and domestic aid are drops in the bucket and do not affect each other in a meaningful way? Also I'm sure those Sub-Saharan African states care about foreign aid considering it helps provide them the bare necessities to live that they might not otherwise have access to. MagicCube fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jul 10, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2013 14:31
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Friends, foreign aid is used to achieve political ends, whether domestic or international, as determined by the government of the day. To pretend otherwise, or try to explain it based on humanitarian altruism, is a foolish pursuit.
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Jul 10, 2013 14:42
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:A lot of the money currently going to Canada is just to sustain the way we're living right now instead of trying to make it better while we toss foreign aid money to countries that could care less if we do so. I'd be all for giving foreign aid money if the mental healthcare in the country was at anything remotely an acceptable level and we finally rehauled our education system. Until then, any dollar leaving the country bothers me. I understand it's a small slice when you consider all of Canada's spending but, "The Conservatives suck at handling our money anyway so what's $300M going to Palestine anyway" is a really bizarre way to look at things. You think that if foreign aid was cut, healthcare funding would go up? With this government? Adorable.
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Jul 10, 2013 14:53
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brucio posted:You think that if foreign aid was cut, healthcare funding would go up? With this government? Adorable. Didn't say that. I don't see why I can't be unhappy with the amount we spend on foreign aid while still considering the way we handle money as a country a complete failure as well. Because that's exactly what I was saying. We're treading water... but feeling good about ourselves because we give a can of peas to Palestine and other foreign countries. If we weren't treading water and actually fixed the poo poo that needs to be fixed in Canada, we'd be in a much better position to look elsewhere to help other countries. We're not there. Nowhere close. Are we really proud to be drops in a bucket? Really? Who the gently caress are we? Not exceptional, and I don't see how that's a good thing. PK loving SUBBAN posted:Friends, foreign aid is used to achieve political ends, whether domestic or international, as determined by the government of the day. To pretend otherwise, or try to explain it based on humanitarian altruism, is a foolish pursuit. That kind of roots to my original question so thank you. Who would giving political aid to Palestine be satisfying on the world political stage? What political end are we attempting to reach?
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Jul 10, 2013 15:07
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:That kind of roots to my original question so thank you. Who would giving political aid to Palestine be satisfying on the world political stage? What political end are we attempting to reach? Well, without any research I'm going to say certain states on the "Arab street" would look kindly on Canada supporting Palestine through aid funding as well as some European countries. As I understand, there are countries in the West (i.e. europe tbh) where there is a lot of criticism of Israeli apartheid and it is deemed an acceptable viewpoint rather than anti-semitism. It probably wins us points at the UN as well, not that this government has ever seemed to care about that reputation.
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Jul 10, 2013 15:21
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:We're treading water... but feeling good about ourselves because we give a can of peas to Palestine and other foreign countries. If we weren't treading water and actually fixed the poo poo that needs to be fixed in Canada, we'd be in a much better position to look elsewhere to help other countries. We're not there. Nowhere close. To be fair, could we ever get "there"? And if we could get to your personal "there", do you think everyone would agree that we had arrived? I don't think it's realistic to expect we'll ever get to the point where the country can say we've accomplished our goals and everyone's happy and taken care of and only then could we start to help other countries. It's the same as giving to charity in a personal finance context. You could never give to charity because hey, every bit of money helps to ensure your retirement/kid/whatever is covered, so only give to charity after you've made millions and don't have to worry about anything.
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Jul 10, 2013 15:29
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Team THEOLOGY posted:http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/08/mulcairs-train-crash-comments-slammed-as-new-low-after-ndp-leader-condemns-tory-rail-safety-cuts/ It's from a few pages back, but you know, what bothers me about this article is that, in the wake of a disaster, with an opposition leader claiming that the federal government has been lax on safety, they had an opportunity to investigate those claims and confirm or deny them, and at least get a quote from an independent expert in the industry. Instead, they ran a pathetic, low effort "he said, she said" piece. Journalism in 2013.
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Jul 10, 2013 15:32
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Lead out in cuffs posted:It's from a few pages back, but you know, what bothers me about this article is that, in the wake of a disaster, with an opposition leader claiming that the federal government has been lax on safety, they had an opportunity to investigate those claims and confirm or deny them, and at least get a quote from an independent expert in the industry. Instead, they ran a pathetic, low effort "he said, she said" piece. I just laughed thinking about how that would have played out if it was Mulcair as PM and Harper saying it and wanted to see how the forums would respond.
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Jul 10, 2013 15:46
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Lead out in cuffs posted:It's from a few pages back, but you know, what bothers me about this article is that, in the wake of a disaster, with an opposition leader claiming that the federal government has been lax on safety, they had an opportunity to investigate those claims and confirm or deny them, and at least get a quote from an independent expert in the industry. Instead, they ran a pathetic, low effort "he said, she said" piece. It's tough to do good journalism today when editors expect you to submit your story through tweets without anyone fact checking or proof reading before the tweets go out.
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Jul 10, 2013 15:58
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If Mulcair was PM, Harper wouldn't have anything to say, for our glorious Socialist Leader would have thrown him in the dilithium mines of Rura MacMurray. 
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Jul 10, 2013 15:58
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:If Mulcair was PM, Harper wouldn't have anything to say, for our glorious Socialist Leader would have thrown him in the dilithium mines of Rura MacMurray. You say that, but honestly, the preserved body Jack laying to public visitation Lenin-like would be kinda neat.
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Jul 10, 2013 16:00
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Team THEOLOGY posted:I just laughed thinking about how that would have played out if it was Mulcair as PM and Harper saying it and wanted to see how the forums would respond. If Mulcair had a knack for cutting "red tape" and public service jobs, I wouldn't doubt that the forums would agree with Harper in that situation.
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Jul 10, 2013 16:57
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Team THEOLOGY posted:Don't forget to blame the people, and Canada generally. Definitely the government of the day as well, but lets not think for a moment this moral indifference in Canada is not driven by something significantly more deep rooted. It has been going on for god knows how long, government to government party to party once they govern. People vote for it/those parties in droves and that's why it results in the effects voted for. Looking for polls on the subject it seems the majority of Canadians support foreign aid and think we ought to spend more.
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Jul 10, 2013 17:09
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brucio posted:If Mulcair had a knack for cutting "red tape" and public service jobs, I wouldn't doubt that the forums would agree with Harper in that situation. This is pretty much how it goes. People in this thread haven't really been the overwhelming ideologues that some like to accuse us of. There hasn't been a lack of criticizing the NDP's positions either, I can think of Mulcair's positions on Israel, or their obsession with tax breaks for companies, for example.
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Jul 10, 2013 17:10
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HappyHippo posted:Looking for polls on the subject it seems the majority of Canadians support foreign aid and think we ought to spend more. I think TT was talking about helping reserves. And that is a problem of deep rooted racism and a lack of empathy. VV The line TT was responding to was "don't blame foreign aid for domestic shortcomings" Political Whores fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jul 10, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2013 17:16
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Cordyceps Headache posted:I think TT was talking about helping reserves. And that is a problem of deep rooted racism and a lack of empathy. While that's true the post that TT quoted was on the topic of foreign aid.
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Jul 10, 2013 17:22
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Canadian Politics Megathread Favourite Zach Paikin weighs in on Adam Giambrone's nomination:Zach Paikin posted:Before I begin, a couple of items of disclosure. First, I'm a card-carrying Liberal and obviously want the Grits to go 5-for-5 in these by-elections. However, in the spirit of eliminating the toxic, hyper-partisan environment that currently plagues much of our country's politics, I'm going to attempt to remove my affiliation from the equation and deliver an objective critique. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/zach-paikin/adam-giambrone-ndp-candidate_b_3567960.html
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Jul 10, 2013 18:42
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Twiin posted:Canadian Politics Megathread Favourite Zach Paikin weighs in on Adam Giambrone's nomination: Ugh what smarmy little shits the two of them must be together.
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Jul 10, 2013 19:04
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Ugh what smarmy little shits the two of them must be together. He talks exactly like a guy I know (and loathe) who has an internship with the Ontario PCs. Just smarmy, artificial bullshit personality, and always dropping mentions of things he wants people to be impressed with (like Paikin did with 'He and I have spent time practising our Arabic together'). He was the most infuriating person in my seminar on Human Rights in IR, and he wouldn't stop going on about 'Natural Law' and how awesome it was.
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Jul 10, 2013 19:37
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Cordyceps Headache posted:He talks exactly like a guy I know (and loathe) who has an internship with the Ontario PCs. Just smarmy, artificial bullshit personality, and always dropping mentions of things he wants people to be impressed with (like Paikin did with 'He and I have spent time practising our Arabic together'). He was the most infuriating person in my seminar on Human Rights in IR, and he wouldn't stop going on about 'Natural Law' and how awesome it was. I did a poli. sci. degree at Concordia and had a few old friends in the liberal arts program; man, I cannot tell you how many people I met there that you're describing here. They all wanted to be lawyers, and go into politics. It still creeps me out to think about it. e: I'm trying to figure out what bar it is. Maybe Scullywags or The Abbott on Yonge st.
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Jul 10, 2013 19:56
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Team THEOLOGY posted:I just laughed thinking about how that would have played out if it was Mulcair as PM and Harper saying it and wanted to see how the forums would respond. Honest question: if we're imagining a scenario where an NDP Prime Minister had made cuts to rail inspections or shifted toward a "self regulation" model and then there was an accident and the leader of the Conservatives criticized the NDP leader are you really saying that you think this thread would defend the NDP out of party loyalty? I've definitely met plenty of NDPers within the party itself who would do that, but it seems like most of us who were in the thread regard the NDP as a vehicle for moving the country leftward, not as an institution that deserves to be defended out of tribal loyalty. It sorta feels like there's an underlying cynicism in your post here suggesting that everyone is just carrying water for their side. I'm sure that's mostly true on the Hill but it isn't true everywhere. For instance, I have no trouble believing that many Conservatives partisans think Mulcair has a better position on the Senate than Harper does. They may still dislike Mulcar or believe that he's doing it for cynical reasons, but I don't assume that small c conservative voters are a monolithic bloc who determine their position on every issue based exclusively on what the CPC is doing that day. I mean this is Canada, after all. Compared to most English speaking countries we're actually well known in poli sci circles for having a notoriously flexible electorate. Basically this is a longwinded way of saying I really don't see why you're accusing people here of arguing in bad faith or out of raw partisanship, which is sorta what that post is doing. Twiin posted:Canadian Politics Megathread Favourite Zach Paikin weighs in on Adam Giambrone's nomination: So cutting through the fluff, his core arguments are: quote:"Giambrone has zero ties to Scarborough." So, what? He won his party's nomination. If voters don't like him for whatever reason, be it his politics or his place of residence, they won't elect him. quote:Giambrone "was the co-chair of the Candidate Selection Committee" of the NDP. I'm shocked! A person using their official position within a political party to advance their political career! That has never happened before! So basically "sure he has no connection to the riding and is using his status as an insider, but that's politics bitch". Hardly a ringing endorsement. Paikin actually managed to lower my opinion of Giambrone further.
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Jul 10, 2013 20:05
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Today is the byelection in Kelowna involving Christie Clark and her hopefully non-existent political future
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Jul 10, 2013 20:07
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Since polls are predicting she'll have an easy victory I am looking forward to hearing later this evening that she lost in a landslide.
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Jul 10, 2013 20:12
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Helsing posted:So basically "sure he has no connection to the riding and is using his status as an insider, but that's politics bitch". Hardly a ringing endorsement. Paikin actually managed to lower my opinion of Giambrone further. His other argument is that Giambrone managed to sell more memberships. Except Giambrone didn't announce until two days before the nomination meeting, and members who've signed up within the last 30 days can't vote.
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Jul 10, 2013 20:15
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The NDP really needs a Preston Manning type figure. I'd trade ten years of political irrelevance for a reconstituted populist party with an actual grassroots. Actually I'd trade political irrelevance for just a shot at that since there are no guarantees in life. Of course the actual Preston Manning, based on my brief interaction with him, seems to be a confused old man. But the older I get the more respect I have for what he managed to do with the Reform Party. Everybody mocked him at the time but he actually dramatically shifted the axis of this country. His long term impact on politics has been quite dramatic, even if his work at the Manning Centre is literally the opposite of everything he once claimed to stand for (a fact he genuinely seems not to grasp).
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Jul 10, 2013 20:25
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Helsing posted:The NDP really needs a Preston Manning type figure. I'd trade ten years of political irrelevance for a reconstituted populist party with an actual grassroots. Actually I'd trade political irrelevance for just a shot at that since there are no guarantees in life. No offense, but wasn't that Jack? Did he not build populist grassroots, which led to the biggest electoral victory results for the NDP?
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Jul 10, 2013 20:35
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Yeah, Manning is right up there on the list of most important figures in 20th century Canadian politics. Too bad he was working on behalf of the Turd Sandwich Brigade. bunnyofdoom posted:No offense, but wasn't that Jack? Did he not build populist grassroots, which led to the biggest electoral victory results for the NDP? Jack Layton, while a good politician, isn't even in the same league as Preston Manning in terms of fundamentally shifting the balance of power in the country.
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Jul 10, 2013 20:38
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Twiin posted:Canadian Politics Megathread Favourite Zach Paikin weighs in on Adam Giambrone's nomination: Anytime I read something by that guy I want to poke my own eyes out
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Jul 10, 2013 20:57
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Alctel posted:Anytime I read something by that guy I want to poke my own eyes out I'm surprised someone in the party hasn't taken him aside and bluntly told him to shut his mouth because he's doing more harm to the Liberals than good by writing all of these smarmy articles and talking up his party membership.
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Jul 10, 2013 21:15
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In good Toronto news:quote:Don Peat @reporterdonpeat 25m I'm happy, even though we're a long way from opening the doors. e: That's a typo, the vote was actually 6-2.
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Jul 10, 2013 21:50
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Pinterest Mom posted:Yeah, if normally cool folks from the ~nonpartisan~ Broadbent Institute are essentially accusing her of ableism in public, it's not too hard to imagine how vile it's getting in private. My favourite ones are those suggesting I am trying to further my career by writing the post. What. Edited to amend: Actually my favourite one called me a "clicktivist". Like, I wrote speeches for Jack Layton and was a media analyst in his office before he died. I'm not just tweetin' here. (Although I did also run Jack's twitter account). audra fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jul 10, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2013 22:50
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Just a reminder that this is still SA and you probably shouldn't drop that many hints of your life outside of the forums.
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Jul 11, 2013 00:30
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cougar cub posted:Just a reminder that this is still SA and you probably shouldn't drop that many hints of your life outside of the forums. Well, that being said once you're not doing it anymore or out of politics it's not too bad. Also, for Ottawa Goons if you ever go to good meets it sort of becomes inevitable.
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Jul 11, 2013 00:52
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JawKnee posted:Today is the byelection in Kelowna involving Christie Clark and her hopefully non-existent political future Well, firstly, is there actually any chance she won't get in, and secondly, is there anything stopping the BC Liberals for shopping around for another MLA to step down so she can run again? Although it would be really funny if the latter happened. For that matter, what is her status as of right now? Hasn't the legislature opened already (without her, as a presently unelected person)?
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Jul 11, 2013 04:07
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Clark is out to a big early lead of 1500ish votes with about half the polls reporting according to the Globe & Mail. The anti-Clark voters were certainly the most vocal at my polling station (lots of "here to stop Christy Clark" comments throughout the day") but the voting pool skewed heavily towards seniors so I'm not optimistic.
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Jul 11, 2013 05:31
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