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swickles posted:ESPN's ratings are down: I wonder if part of this is people getting news from "alternative media" sources. I mean, don't most savvy sports fans rely on Twitter and whatnot for news these days?
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Jul 9, 2013 23:32
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Ehud posted:I wonder if part of this is people getting news from "alternative media" sources. I mean, don't most savvy sports fans rely on Twitter and whatnot for news these days? Well, part of it was the basketball as mentioned in the article. Heat/Celtics was a great series and everyone who followed basketball watched that with more interest than possibly the Miami/OKC series. I honestly hadn't heard of Fox Sports 1 as a serious threat until this article though. I also think there aren't as many story lines this off season. Yes, you have Hernandez, but last year you had referee lockouts and before that the NFL players lockout.
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Jul 9, 2013 23:40
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swickles posted:Well, part of it was the basketball as mentioned in the article. Heat/Celtics was a great series and everyone who followed basketball watched that with more interest than possibly the Miami/OKC series. Fox Sports bought our local sports radio station, which had belonged to ESPN for years. I don't know what is worse; the milquetoast ESPN programming, or the XTREME SPORTS FAN Fox programming. Is Fox Sports included in most TV packages now?
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Jul 9, 2013 23:42
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Ehud posted:I wonder if part of this is people getting news from "alternative media" sources. I mean, don't most savvy sports fans rely on Twitter and whatnot for news these days? I think Twitter is really hurting ESPN. I know for sure I used to have it on for the scroll at the bottom, which is basically Twitter, which in turn to quote a thread title is basically fyad, so fyad killed ESPN. But seriously so much of sports is really just headlines, so ESPN is head-to-head with Adam Schefter's Twitter account more than they'd like to admit. Think about how many ESPN reports from Ed Werder in Minneapolis can be summed up as "Adrian Peterson's knee healing nicely, expects to run in 3 weeks #Vikings" More circumstantial evidence, think about how often ESPN quotes Twitter posts now. Reporting on another media source is a good sign that you think that source is kicking your rear end.
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Jul 9, 2013 23:43
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Rap posted:Nobody editorializes worse than Rotoworld: This almost reads like the guy writing just mixed up duplicity with duality. I could even believe that was the case if everyone writing stuff today wasn't looking to pile on (an obviously guilty) Hernandez. Ehud posted:Is Fox Sports included in most TV packages now? Fox Sports is taking over the old Speed channels that no one ever watched but were included in basic cable a lot of places anyway. I guess that makes it more of a threat than NBC Sports, but I don't have any idea if it'll be worth watching at all. I do know hockey folks are pissed that they stole their favorite Sportscentre guys.
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Jul 9, 2013 23:49
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Rap posted:I think Twitter is really hurting ESPN. I know for sure I used to have it on for the scroll at the bottom, which is basically Twitter, which in turn to quote a thread title is basically fyad, so fyad killed ESPN. But seriously so much of sports is really just headlines, so ESPN is head-to-head with Adam Schefter's Twitter account more than they'd like to admit. Think about how many ESPN reports from Ed Werder in Minneapolis can be summed up as "Adrian Peterson's knee healing nicely, expects to run in 3 weeks #Vikings" I wonder if they can find any creative ways to adapt rather than trying to fight the trend. I'm a dumb young person and I want news right now, so there is no way I'll ever go back to reading ESPN's ticker.
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Jul 9, 2013 23:53
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swickles posted:ESPN's ratings are down: The big takeaway from this is that the Spurs ruin everything
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Jul 9, 2013 23:56
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Grittybeard posted:Fox Sports is taking over the old Speed channels that no one ever watched but were included in basic cable a lot of places anyway. I guess that makes it more of a threat than NBC Sports, but I don't have any idea if it'll be worth watching at all. I do know hockey folks are pissed that they stole their favorite Sportscentre guys. Erin Andrews is also at Fox now. and Joey Harrington 
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Jul 9, 2013 23:57
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Ehud posted:I wonder if part of this is people getting news from "alternative media" sources. I mean, don't most savvy sports fans rely on Twitter and whatnot for news these days? That's a big part of it, social media destroys mainstream media for it's ability to break stories quickly, I knew hernandez had been arrested before it was on any major news ticker because it exploded all over twitter and facebook. Why would I want to listen to some douche in a suit with oily hair yell at me for thirty seconds between commercials for the NHRA series and pro bull riding when I know more about whats happening than the content of the story?
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Jul 10, 2013 02:04
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I've been thinking about this a bit at work. Nowadays, at work, I can sit down on break and watch TV news. In front of me is the newspaper, and on my phone is the Internet and all of its social media. The social media fulfills the role that TV did for much of its heyday, the "breaking news". The newspaper hasn't been able to keep that role for years, but nowadays can fill another niche by providing well-researched, comprehensive news stories without the raw sensationalism and knee-jerking social media often has (see also: Reddit and Twitter going ballistic over every single Boston bombing suspect as they appeared and were discarded). TV, I don't know where it fits in right now.
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Jul 10, 2013 03:37
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Thats why, on a personal professional level, I hope there's still room in the news market (shudder at that phrase) for the free weekly or alt-weekly newspaper. But yeah TV is lost. CNN has gone the be-the-first route with laughable results like screwing up the Boston bombing suspect "arrests", they're slow and outdated on breaking situations like the Texas legislative filibuster, TV news in general is without a role.
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Jul 10, 2013 03:50
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I'm hardly a media expert, but I would think there's still a role for the shouting heads infotainment shows, a la Bill O'Reilly and Colin Cowherd and whatnot, hence ESPN's transitioning to more of that kind of programming. Then again I try to avoid all that white noise, so I don't know if it's as widespread as it feels in my channel surfing.
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Jul 10, 2013 04:12
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Newspapers are hosed. I work at one, trust me on this. I think magazines will still have value in the future (work well on tablets + they have a real niche value). Seems like television will increasingly only be good for live broadcasts or on demand stuff (dunno how ESPN fits in here). Who's going to wait for a ticker or for the top of Sportscenter when you can just read Twitter? Tough thing for sports reporters is that there's so many people willing to do it for free and there's not a whole lot of difference in the quality. One of the sports reporters where I work never learned how to use apostrophes and we have a blogger who writes compelling and totally clean copy.
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Jul 10, 2013 05:01
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Nately posted:Newspapers are hosed. I work at one, trust me on this. You work at a daily or a weekly? Every daily should have a paywall, every weekly should not try to update blogs daily.
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Jul 10, 2013 05:35
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Broadcast TV had a good 50 year run or so, but it is definitely dying. I'm actually surprised so many newspapers have lasted this long.
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Jul 10, 2013 15:21
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Thaddius the Large posted:I'm hardly a media expert, but I would think there's still a role for the shouting heads infotainment shows, a la Bill O'Reilly and Colin Cowherd and whatnot, hence ESPN's transitioning to more of that kind of programming. Then again I try to avoid all that white noise, so I don't know if it's as widespread as it feels in my channel surfing. I really hope there's NOT a role for shouting heads, it's awful at basically all the things - no clear communication of actual facts, no intellectual honesty, no journalistic intent. I mean, if you want to do a variety show go hog wild, but don't pretend it's not a variety show, a 3 hour editorial, instead of any sort of reporting outlet. There's absolutely still a place for reporting and articles greater than 140 characters, but Twitter has already crushed you on Being First so you should Be Accurate or Be Thoughtful. For example - the CONCEPT of Peter King's column isn't bad. It's actually good! Aggregate ideas and noteworthy items together, and offer knowledgeable perspective. The problem is presentation.
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Jul 10, 2013 16:55
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Rap posted:You work at a daily or a weekly? Every daily should have a paywall, every weekly should not try to update blogs daily. Daily. We have a metered paywall but the blogs aren't part of it. We have a blog network for sports and all the sports writers hate them.
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Jul 10, 2013 17:02
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This is the best place in this forum for Newspaper Industry Chat, but then again maybe nowhere in this forum is a good place for Newspaper Industry Chat. But I do think newspapers can survive, starting with the steps I described in my previous post, and I would expect some newspapers to go the opposite direction and fall apart and other newspapers to survive just fine.
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Jul 10, 2013 17:06
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Rap, you work in journalism? This jives with my mental image of you with tousled hair and coke bottle glasses, sitting in a dimly lit basement, printing out your favorite posts on an ancient inkjet.
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Jul 10, 2013 17:40
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Rap posted:This is the best place in this forum for Newspaper Industry Chat, but then again maybe nowhere in this forum is a good place for Newspaper Industry Chat. But I do think newspapers can survive, starting with the steps I described in my previous post, and I would expect some newspapers to go the opposite direction and fall apart and other newspapers to survive just fine. Are you still going to move to Spokane? The Inlander is actually a pretty cool paper I think.
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Jul 10, 2013 17:56
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Inlander didn't offer me job  They said moving to a city where I didn't know anyone was a big challenge and they weren't sure a person could handle it. Might have been a BS excuse, who can say, who can say
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Jul 10, 2013 18:25
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Rap posted:Inlander didn't offer me job I've been getting that a lot lately, but for my field it makes sense because, ya know, network and all that :\
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Jul 10, 2013 18:48
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It was actually my biggest hesitation on that job, but that's my business yo.
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Jul 10, 2013 18:54
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Badfinger posted:I really hope there's NOT a role for shouting heads, it's awful at basically all the things - no clear communication of actual facts, no intellectual honesty, no journalistic intent. I mean, if you want to do a variety show go hog wild, but don't pretend it's not a variety show, a 3 hour editorial, instead of any sort of reporting outlet. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely dislike all the shouting heads, I don't see much any value whatsoever. That said, television does seem to support that particular format better than internet or written media. I agree with everything else you said, I'm all for having newspapers be for longer, more insightful pieces, while the moment-by-moment internet updates supplement. Each medium just seems to be falling back more and more in their respective niches, and television media does still have it's place, even if it's not a particularly insightful or (for seemingly most people in this thread) enjoyable one.
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Jul 10, 2013 19:02
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Sports actually have a better chance of offering local news outlets lots of opportunities for coverage, because local people can still beat ESPN and the other nationals to stories. Think about how many writers' names we know from various cities, I could name 3 Miami guys and 4 New York Jets writers right now (although, strangely, nobody from any of the other AFC North cities). There is no doubt newspapers in lots of cities gear their websites, and often their print products, toward sports more and more.
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Jul 10, 2013 19:48
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swickles posted:ESPN's ratings are down: I just took my kids on a week-long Disney trip and I find that pretty loving hard to believe. 
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Jul 10, 2013 22:11
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Rasczak posted:I just took my kids on a week-long Disney trip and I find that pretty loving hard to believe. Did you manage to get through the entire trip without selling one of your kids to the park to finance things?
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Jul 10, 2013 22:12
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Rasczak posted:I just took my kids on a week-long Disney trip and I find that pretty loving hard to believe. But it's a waffle shaped like Mickey Mouse!
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Jul 10, 2013 22:29
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Rasczak posted:I just took my kids on a week-long Disney trip and I find that pretty loving hard to believe. In that ESPN book it said they were the reason Disney bought ABC in the 90's. I even remember about a decade ago Comcast wanted to buy Disney mainly for ESPN. As for newspapers, between Murdoch just completing the spinoff of his newspapers and Tribune (re: LA Times/Chicago Tribune) announcing their plains for a spinoff today I'd agree about them dying. To get back on-topic a bit, that ratings drop didn't include football. But last year ratings for college/NFL games on ESPN were down too: quote:What the hell? ESPN does do the lion's share of its ratings business in the second half of the year. That's when Monday Night Football kicks into gear, along with the college football season. But last year wasn't a banner year on that front, either: In 2012, ESPN and ESPN2 were down 2 and 8 percent for the year in ratings for total-day viewers, respectively. ESPN was flat in primetime ratings, and ESPN2 was down 12 percent.
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Jul 10, 2013 22:32
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haljordan posted:Did you manage to get through the entire trip without selling one of your kids to the park to finance things? The kids made it home and in one piece, though I needed to use blacksmith tongs and a vat of water to cool off my credit card. Declan MacManus posted:But it's a waffle shaped like Mickey Mouse! Mini-mouse waffles! Get it?!?!
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Jul 10, 2013 22:34
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AAA DOLFAN posted:I've been getting that a lot lately, but for my field it makes sense because, ya know, network and all that :\
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Jul 10, 2013 22:51
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Can we talk about how lovely this article is because goddamn: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000216943/article/2013-nfl-supplemental-mock-draft You better pay the poor intern who had to type all this poo poo out.
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Jul 10, 2013 23:42
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Parmesan Basil posted:Can we talk about how lovely this article is because goddamn: He worked through film!
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Jul 10, 2013 23:44
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How many of your cities have better local coverage through the newspaper than the leading local news channel? In Raleigh, WRAL (our leading local news channel) kills the News and Observer. I do not know a single person in my office who goes to the N&O's website before wral.com for anything. In the last year the N&O has only broken one really big local story I can think of. Their articles are not written as well, their website is much worse, and they pretty much add no value. It is even worse now that they laid off most of their Raleigh staff and it is run out of Charlotte, but even before that they added almost no value over WRAL. Even the things the local paper is supposed to be the best at, like the political beat, they are not any better than WRAL (and in my opinion they are worse).
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Jul 11, 2013 00:05
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Parmesan Basil posted:Can we talk about how lovely this article is because goddamn: Cool, Dewayne Peace #1 overall!
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Jul 11, 2013 00:31
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Ribsauce posted:How many of your cities have better local coverage through the newspaper than the leading local news channel? In Raleigh, WRAL (our leading local news channel) kills the News and Observer. I do not know a single person in my office who goes to the N&O's website before wral.com for anything. In the last year the N&O has only broken one really big local story I can think of. Their articles are not written as well, their website is much worse, and they pretty much add no value. It is even worse now that they laid off most of their Raleigh staff and it is run out of Charlotte, but even before that they added almost no value over WRAL. Even the things the local paper is supposed to be the best at, like the political beat, they are not any better than WRAL (and in my opinion they are worse). I think in Denver the Post shreds local TV completely. Beats them to stories and does them better, to the point that just yesterday a reporter for the Denver Post-owned Boulder Daily Camera caught a TV news channel stealing Daily Camera photos without credit because the TV news site was so far behind the story.
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Jul 11, 2013 00:32
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Are you loving kidding me he opted to put ALL SEVEN ROUNDS AND WRITE PASS all the way until the 7th round?
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Jul 11, 2013 00:36
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I always thought the KC Star was decent, although I can't claim that I've bothered too much with local TV. They recently put up a paywall which I applaud if it keeps them alive but since I'm incredibly cheap it means I just don't go there anymore That supplemental draft article is amazing, I can't figure out if I like the pick forfeited or the trade explained before the - pass better.
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Jul 11, 2013 00:40
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It's just a joke, who cares?
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Jul 11, 2013 00:40
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AAA DOLFAN posted:Are you loving kidding me he opted to put ALL SEVEN ROUNDS AND WRITE PASS all the way until the 7th round? I was honestly just expecting it to say PASS the whole way down.
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Jul 11, 2013 01:12
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