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The final 'scences' are amazing. When the drone shows Gurgeh what the planet is really like and he annihilates the Admiral with the physical bet, and when he starts playing as the culture against the Emperor. Its deffo my favourite and highly recommended to any new readers. Seaside Loafer fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 12:10
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jul/04/iain-banks-asteroid-name-galache YESSSSSSSS In other news, Banks said the best book he wrote was The Bridge, which I'm reading now. So far it's both lighter and heavier than the M. stuff I usually read but I'll hold judgement until I've finished it. I've also just finished Use Of Weapons, which I first read, oh about 14 years ago. It's much more fun on second read knowing the twist at the end and I think it might have bumped itself up to the top of my favorite M. books list. That said, I can't see myself reading it as many times as I have Excession or Algebraist (I can see myself going back to Hydron Sonata quite a few times too).
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Jul 4, 2013 23:25
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Use of weapons affects me more now after reading surface detail. Zakalwe spends much of use of weapons trying to do something else other than fight, and his sections as a failed poet really hit me hard the first time, but after Surface Detail, it makes me feel so much sadder. He wants to get away, the work destroys him through his memories and what he has to do. Every time though, he comes back. He dies, he's beheaded, he scrawls his rescue sign while being eaten alive by insects.... He loses the shard of bone in his heart that keeps him anchored to a last saving memory. And, in the end, after everything, he's still fighting, after death, forever and ever and ever.
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Jul 5, 2013 00:36
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gender illusionist posted:http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jul/04/iain-banks-asteroid-name-galache A fitting tribute indeed. The Bridge doesn't get enough love. Sure, it's a little straightforward. It doesn't need a deep twist, just so long as it gets somewhere. What is brilliant is the journey. It's a neat setting, there's deep character insight, and the dreamscape that builds up is simply amazing. The Scotch brogue in one of the early chapters is Banks' best dialogue, once you 'hear' it in your head, it's perfect.
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Jul 5, 2013 08:15
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mllaneza posted:A fitting tribute indeed. I loved The Bridge. I picked up my copy while vacationing in Scotland last year, and having seen the titular structure first hand it's easy to understand how such a thing might form the foundation of a dying engineer's surrealistic dreamscape.  The Forth Rail Bridge was built a few years after another rail bridge collapsed and killed 75 people, so the project received the kind of budget that architects usually only dream of, and it was deliberately overbuilt to be nigh indestructible. It's been in service for 120 years, and is expected to last at least another century with proper maintenance. Avulsion fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 08:53
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I love it. If you look at a shot of the road and rail bridges next to each other... you've got the road bridge on the left, a typical airy light floaty almost-not-there modern bridge... and then on the right the rail bridge is just like some kind of monstrous construction going gently caress IT. BAM. THERE. STEEL. MORE STEEL. MORE GIRDERS. gently caress YOU.
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Jul 5, 2013 13:16
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Avulsion posted:I loved The Bridge. I picked up my copy while vacationing in Scotland last year, and having seen the titular structure first hand it's easy to understand how such a thing might form the foundation of a dying engineer's surrealistic dreamscape. And this other bridge collapse inspired something that's probably the exact polar opposite of Banks: http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/gems/the-tay-bridge-disaster
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Jul 5, 2013 14:12
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I found a copy of The Bridge when I was on holiday with my family in some chalet in the north of France, the owner's apparently. I was about 13 at the time, jumped straight from Redwall to that. The scene where the general demands the narrator lube up a machine gun and stick it up his arse...  . I haven't actually read it as an adult, I should probably give it a go.
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Jul 6, 2013 16:26
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lenoon posted:Use of weapons affects me more now after reading surface detail. Zakalwe spends much of use of weapons trying to do something else other than fight, and his sections as a failed poet really hit me hard the first time, but after Surface Detail, it makes me feel so much sadder. He wants to get away, the work destroys him through his memories and what he has to do. Every time though, he comes back. He dies, he's beheaded, he scrawls his rescue sign while being eaten alive by insects.... He loses the shard of bone in his heart that keeps him anchored to a last saving memory. My interpretation of that was quite different, actually. Ultimately, Zakalwe seeks forgiveness from Livueta. Surface Detail takes place something like 700 years after Use of Weapons, and it's almost certain that Livueta would have died a natural death not too long after their fateful meeting in the hospital. I took the epilogue of Surface Detail to imply that he'd been fighting for all those centuries, but that his final war against Hell leaves him finally able to deal with his identity as a traitor. Sitting on the terrace, watching the sunset and waiting for Sma, he finally has a poetic insight like one he had been striving for all those centuries ago. It also seems that despite the centuries, his and Sma's friendship is intact and thriving. All in all, this says to me that Zakalwe has found redemption. If the end of Use of Weapons told me that he really was no longer The Chair Maker, the end of Surface Detail tells me that he is no longer defined by his past sins and can finally move on. Honestly, I'm impressed how much resolution Banks was able to give me with...two and a half pages? Maybe three? Of writing there at the end.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:14
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That's a much nicer resolution than I got, I like the interpretation a lot, but I guess I can't get mine out of my head when I read that section.
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Jul 8, 2013 00:24
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Radio 4 dramatisation of The State of the Art. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRl9D_agLbU
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Jul 9, 2013 12:49
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I just saw that he passed away last month, I'm really gonna miss the Culture series. I had just started rereading them and stumbled across the news 
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Jul 10, 2013 00:47
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Avulsion posted:I loved The Bridge. I picked up my copy while vacationing in Scotland last year, and having seen the titular structure first hand it's easy to understand how such a thing might form the foundation of a dying engineer's surrealistic dreamscape. Just finished The Bridge. Cos of your post I thought he was gonna die so I nearly started blubbing in public (at work!) when he woke up. I loved the easter eggs for the M. readers.
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Jul 10, 2013 22:59
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For Dublin, Ireland people, Chapters is selling Stonemouth in large format paperback for 4.99. I haven't read it as I found I much prefer the M stuff - with exceptions - how is it?
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Jul 10, 2013 23:06
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rejutka posted:For Dublin, Ireland people, Chapters is selling Stonemouth in large format paperback for 4.99.
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Jul 10, 2013 23:27
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gender illusionist posted:I loved the easter eggs for the M. readers.
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Jul 10, 2013 23:50
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Could you guys elabourate on these easter eggs? Read The Bridge but it was bloody years ago.
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Jul 11, 2013 00:53
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Reading State of the Art right now and the short story regarding the plant monster was one of the most awful things i've ever read. Awful like ugh, not like bad writing. Plz don't pull the fingers and dick off a space traveler you loving space plant goon.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:35
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Seaside Loafer posted:Could you guys elabourate on these easter eggs? Read The Bridge but it was bloody years ago. In the barbarian dream sequence, a knife missile makes a couple of appearances and mirror/cutting fields towards the end.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:41
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Entropic posted:Even more interesting given it was published before any of the Culture books. I sort of assume he already had details of the Culture sketched out somewhere, or at least daydreamed up. Or maybe it was secretly the first Culture book and his whole life was a sim within a sim within a sim within...
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Jul 11, 2013 21:51
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Fintilgin posted:I sort of assume he already had details of the Culture sketched out somewhere, or at least daydreamed up.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:14
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Those On My Left posted:Glad you enjoyed it. I know several people who started with Player of Games and never found a Culture book that they liked more than it. (I was like that right until I read Look to Windward.) It is definitely the most "Culture = good guys" book, but I also feel like it has the most driven and focused narrative. Player of Games is by far the most thematically coherent Culture novel, which is why I think it's one of the best books in the series and the best one to read first. But I think its best feature is that is very much not a simple "Culture = good guys" story. Don't get me wrong, that's definitely a valid interpretation of what happened in the book, but from another perspective it actually represents the Culture as a monstrously coercive force. The Culture's interaction with Azad provides a nice backdrop, but it's not the heart and soul of the book: rather it's Gurgeh and his character arc. I think the Culture's intervention in Azad is undeniably for the better, but it's on the subject of Gurgeh where the deep ambivalence creeps in. The entire tone of the book really pivots upon your interpretation of what happens to Gurgeh, and whether you think his arc represents personal growth or whether it represents the Culture inflicting a massive crisis of character on him.
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Jul 13, 2013 17:12
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I'm reading State of the Art and have gotten to the parts that are more culture oriented regarding Sma et al. This is one of the few times where I've seen culture humans described as really alien. Outside of Horza's girlfriend in Phlebas I don't think I've really seen such odd descriptions of the characters in the culture books. Is this ever elaborated on further in the series? For example sma has extra finger joints, 4 toes, and a weird face. And one guy is basically an ape man.
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Jul 14, 2013 00:32
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Jerkface posted:I'm reading State of the Art and have gotten to the parts that are more culture oriented regarding Sma et al. This is one of the few times where I've seen culture humans described as really alien. Outside of Horza's girlfriend in Phlebas I don't think I've really seen such odd descriptions of the characters in the culture books. Is this ever elaborated on further in the series? For example sma has extra finger joints, 4 toes, and a weird face. And one guy is basically an ape man. What, did you think they were all forehead aliens?  I'd say it's a tie between Use of Weapons and Look to Windward for my favorite, the former for having the most interesting protagonist (also Sma, also holy poo poo the chair), and the latter for the look at life in the Culture, the twist at the end, and overall Culture badassery.
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Jul 14, 2013 00:46
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Protagorean posted:What, did you think they were all forehead aliens? The culture as described are very human in the first series of books I read. There are aliens like the Idirans and whatever, but for the most part people get pretty human description, the characters are up to pretty human type stuff, etc. They are called humans after all! Not to mention all the sex. There is rarely such detailed description of any character that Sma's laundry list of changes to blend on Earth in the 1970s was not to say shocking, but I was like 'Doi!' So I wonder if the various make up is elaborated on in other books or if it will always just remain a weird background tangent
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Jul 14, 2013 01:02
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They're called pan-humanity for a reason. And when they can all enter a maintenance trance at will and move the gender knob between male/female/neuter/hermaphrodite or the musculature slider between high and low gravity, you have to assume they can alter literally every other aspect of their appearance and functionality too. pseudorandom name fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 01:09
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There are references to the culture panhumans not being the same as Homo sapiens in other books too. Beyond upgrades like better eyes, hearts, genitalia and so on some people are definitely described as having different sizes or body shapes. The Gzilt in The Hydrogen Sonata are definitely panhuman, but they aren't even mammalian.
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Jul 14, 2013 01:10
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There's a wide variety of alien biology out there, but there are also some general body-types that crop up pretty frequently and the human-type is one of them. Banks also seems to like floating gasbag aliens (Behemothaurs and Xinthians), and tripedal aliens (Idirans and Homomda). Anything that vaguely resembles a human (two arms, two legs, one head) gets lumped under the umbrella term "panhumanity" or "human basic", though frequently they're just referred to as "human". Banks doesn't bother very often to inform the reader of all the little differences between the "human" characters, but he'll occasionally throw in little asides like describing the fur covering one character, or another character being jet-black, and so on. It's kind of an authorial cheat in order to retain relatable characters and conflicts, while still giving a vague nod toward plausibility. Plus, people in the Culture can adopt any kind of body they chose. Panhumanity just happens to be the "fashionable" sort of body type in the timeframe covered by the books (again, authorial cheat) but he mentions that in the past all sorts of body types have gone in and out of style, including snake-types and floating clouds of mist. e: poo poo, it just feels too soon to start referring to him in the past tense... 
Coriolis fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 02:39
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One of the things he wrote in an early book about the similar species is that the humans are the food of the galaxy or something. Does anyone remember what that meant? It keeps making GBS threads out humanoid species and gobbling them up or something.
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Jul 14, 2013 07:56
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Jerkface posted:One of the things he wrote in an early book about the similar species is that the humans are the food of the galaxy or something. Does anyone remember what that meant? It keeps making GBS threads out humanoid species and gobbling them up or something. Alcohol. Alcohol is one of the most common organic molecules in the galaxy, there are vast clouds of it nebulae. Pan-humanity is the universe's way of using up all this spare alcohol. It was in Use of Weapons, when Zakalwe is chatting up that poet woman, but I forget which one of them says it. Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 15:07
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Is that true? Because if so holy poo poo. I want come crab nebulae Vodka.
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Jul 16, 2013 21:39
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Fragmented posted:Is that true? Because if so holy poo poo. I want come crab nebulae Vodka. Yup, true; you find it a lot in star forming nebulae.
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Jul 16, 2013 21:49
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Kathryn Janeway also found coffee in a nebula in the Delta Quadrant, but I don't think ST:VOY counts as Culture canon.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:37
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Coriolis posted:There's a wide variety of alien biology out there, but there are also some general body-types that crop up pretty frequently and the human-type is one of them. Banks also seems to like floating gasbag aliens (Behemothaurs and Xinthians), and tripedal aliens (Idirans and Homomda). Anything that vaguely resembles a human (two arms, two legs, one head) gets lumped under the umbrella term "panhumanity" or "human basic", though frequently they're just referred to as "human". Banks doesn't bother very often to inform the reader of all the little differences between the "human" characters, but he'll occasionally throw in little asides like describing the fur covering one character, or another character being jet-black, and so on. It's kind of an authorial cheat in order to retain relatable characters and conflicts, while still giving a vague nod toward plausibility. Also Pan-hoppers.
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Jul 18, 2013 02:47
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I just finished Inversions and I really loved how it showed the subtle manipulations that the Culture preforms without beating you over the head. From the incredibly well timed meteors which wiped out a stagnant and controlling empire to the progressive king being treated by an agent who then only gives birth to daughters leading to the rise of the first Queen and the doctors assistant moving on to become the best physician in the world with his evidence based medicine and then teaching others in newly established medical academies. Really well done, sucks that there won't be any more.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:47
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Na'at posted:I just finished Inversions and I really loved how it showed the subtle manipulations that the Culture preforms without beating you over the head. From the incredibly well timed meteors which wiped out a stagnant and controlling empire to the progressive king being treated by an agent who then only gives birth to daughters leading to the rise of the first Queen and the doctors assistant moving on to become the best physician in the world with his evidence based medicine and then teaching others in newly established medical academies. Really well done, sucks that there won't be any more. It's hadn't occurred to me that those first two things were anything but happenstance, which is a pretty big oversight on my part. I assumed that the meteor strike was a natural event that got the Culture interested in the place, rather than something they caused, but that doesn't really hold up. At a minimum the Culture knew what was coming and let it happen, and that seems less likely than them just arranging the whole thing. I think I spent too much time thinking about the protagonists' direct influence and didn't really consider everything that SC would have been doing in the background.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:06
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Not sure how I feel about the Culture being directly responsible for a basically apocalyptic event to bring about societal change, that's some straight-up comic book supervillain plan.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:43
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Vanadium posted:Not sure how I feel about the Culture being directly responsible for a basically apocalyptic event to bring about societal change, that's some straight-up comic book supervillain plan. Maybe it was collateral damage from the Idiran-Culture War or some other Involed's science experiment, and the culture just sent them to clean up the mess. Or maybe SC's a bunch of jerks.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:50
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I don't know. I'm not entirely convinced the whole Chelgrian clusterfuck in Look to Windward was an accident either, in spite of the profuse and sincere apologism of Contact. When it comes to SC I think all bets are off. edit: I mean, never forget who actually started the Idiran War. How many billions died for just the Culture's peace of mind? Lasting Damage fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 01:08
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Lasting Damage posted:edit: I mean, never forget who actually started the Idiran War. How many billions died for just the Culture's peace of mind? Yes, but the agent who went to sleep until lives saved exceeded casualties was eventually woken up; the Culture was "right" on numerical utilitarian grounds, at least. This is presumably true of Inversion's rock, too. It's also possible they just tweaked the trajectory of a rock that could have done more damage.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:50
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