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If we're splitting hairs, I think it really only has *three* and not four; Ending C is basically a failure state and you can watch C and then D by reloading a file right at the final boss. But I agree it really only needed to have two. The second playthrough introduces new narrative content, dialogue, and the character of Tyrann, while subsequent ones don't really change anything.
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Jul 11, 2013 01:06
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Except C is not a failure state, because it's a choice the player makes about which is more important, Kaine's life or raising Yonah. The writer said that Ending C is the "Father Nier" choice and ending D the "Brother Nier" choice, because to him a father would shoulder the responsibility of raising his child even if it meant losing his last friend.
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Jul 11, 2013 02:16
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I think Drakengard 3 will tie to Nier, because wild speculation, Zero is the Grotesquires Queen.
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Jul 11, 2013 13:59
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Lotish posted:Except C is not a failure state, because it's a choice the player makes about which is more important, Kaine's life or raising Yonah. The writer said that Ending C is the "Father Nier" choice and ending D the "Brother Nier" choice, because to him a father would shoulder the responsibility of raising his child even if it meant losing his last friend. See, I never saw it that way; it's implicit in Ending D that Kaine is willing and probably even wants to take on the responsibility of raising Yonah in his stead (since a family is what she's been looking for since her grandmother died). In a way, I considered it powerfully redemptive for Nier, with him accepting that Kaine deserves another chance more than he does and that Yonah won't need him anymore, and cleansing the blood from his hands by saving more than someone's life - also their soul, and their faith in other people. Ending C leads to the loop repeating because Nier, and by extension the player, haven't learned anything. It's not a GAME OVER failure ending, but I think it's immensely less meaningful and satisfying. And I fully admit that I probably have a weird perspective on the game, because I really don't care that much about the overarching narrative or the world mythology stuff so much as the development of the characters, and the thing I latched onto as a means of understanding the game was that the postgame stuff is basically about the salvation of Kaine (and of Nier, through saving her). The NG+ stuff begins with her extended backstory and the full revelation of her childhood first thing, and the largest change it affects on the game is the introduction of Tyrann as a speaking character. Baku fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 14:10
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Monomythian posted:I think Drakengard 3 will tie to Nier, because wild speculation, Zero is the Grotesquires Queen. I think you're right, but since I'm hoping that Drakengard 3 will have multiple endings like the other games, I'm hoping they use the endings to explain why those white spheres have so many different interpretations in Drakengard. In one ending they're dragon eggs, and in another they're monster cloning devices. If her endings each tie into an ending from the original game I'll be just chuffed.
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Jul 11, 2013 15:32
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Monomythian posted:I think Drakengard 3 will tie to Nier, because wild speculation, Zero is the Grotesquires Queen. I thought it was implied that that was Arioch. At least, the Queen didn't show up until right after Arioch's last scene. Of course we still have basically no idea how the Watchers/Grotesqueries/Gods/whatever work, so it's impossible to say anything for certain.
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Jul 11, 2013 17:10
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Monomythian posted:I think Drakengard 3 will tie to Nier, because wild speculation, Zero is the Grotesquires Queen. Holy poo poo, that would almost retroactively make Drakengard's last ending make sense! (no it would not)
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Jul 11, 2013 23:27
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sleeptalker posted:I thought it was implied that that was Arioch. At least, the Queen didn't show up until right after Arioch's last scene. Of course we still have basically no idea how the Watchers/Grotesqueness/Gods/whatever work, so it's impossible to say anything for certain. The reason I am so convinced the Grotesquires Queen and Songstresses are connected is that they both manipulate magic through song. Zero is hellbent on murdering her other songstress sisters so that she is the only one who can do that. There are six sisters and six seals. Assuming Zero succeeds, or not, or if things go drastically wrong, (This is a Drakengard game, of course they will) the end result will be the Grotesquires Queen. They somehow manage to seal it away till the Empire/Watcher cult eventually breaks the seals. Drakengard!
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Jul 11, 2013 23:35
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DLC update: Kaine in the lead by 52.4% of the vote, Caim following up with 23.3%. You still have a chance to vote here until tomorrow: https://ssl.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/658/658392/index.html Also the prequel manga is being scanslated, for people who haven't been completely turned off by all the grimdark: http://mangafox.me/manga/drag_on_dragoon_shi_ni_itaru_aka/
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Jul 13, 2013 17:10
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quote:See, I never saw it that way; it's implicit in Ending D that Kaine is willing and probably even wants to take on the responsibility of raising Yonah in his stead (since a family is what she's been looking for since her grandmother died). Now, I can believe that Nier might have assumed this was going to happen; that he figures Kaine will pick up where he can't and he's giving them both a chance at having a family. The implication I got once it's over is that Kaine, thanks the Tyrann's Magical Mind-wipe, has no idea what she's doing there, and as far as she knows she defeated the Shadowlord (although she doesn't remember it) and just happened to help some girl that the Shadowlord kidnapped. There's no connection and no motivation in the absence of Nier, as the two never met and Kaine's only reason for caring was because Nier cared. The supplemental stuff goes on to mention that she basically spends all of her time murdering Shades in a fit of frustration because she can't figure out what she's forgotten. I personally like the consolidate it by saying that Kaine still has a weird attachment to Yonah without understanding why, and even if she can't remember it or doesn't live with her she stays close enough to watch out for her (the drama CD mentions that she lives just north of the Village and keeps it safe from attacking Shades, so it's not out of the realm of possibility). But it's really optimistic to think that Kaine takes over the act of 'raising' her and providing her with a maternal or even sororal, and we all know how optimistic NIER is. Of course, Yonah's probably dead soon after the ending anyway so it doesn't matter too much what Kaine does. Cavia.
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Jul 13, 2013 19:06
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New article about the music of Drakengard 3: http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/17/4530966/abot-drakengard-3-and-making-the-music-for-a-very-strange-game One thing that's interesting is how he mentions the lead singer of the soundtrack, Eir Aoi, was selected in part for being such a huge fan of the series. In the promotional video on Nico Douga that proceeded the premier of the trailer, they actually show her fighting the Grotesquerie Queen who it only takes her two tries to beat... I was impressed, anyway. Also some screenshots have been leaked of the 8-bit Remix thing that's going to come with the 10th Anniversary Box: quote:
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Jul 17, 2013 15:14
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NonsenseWords posted:I actually agree with the rest of your post (that the game narrative isn't so much about the backstory or even its overarching plot as it is about the characters), but I don't think this is correct. Ending/supplement stuff to follow: I thought that (ending spoilers) the lunar tear that appears on the title screen after you witness Ending D and believe everything is deleted was intended to signify hope that perhaps something remained in defiance of things - that Kaine and Yonah remembered that bond, or even had a faint recollection of a man called Nier. That's probably over-optimistic and perhaps over-literal though, and ultimately I think the main purpose is to serve as a nod to the player, an acknowledgement from the developers toward my notion that making that difficult and punitive choice "saved" both Kaine and Nier in the eyes of the universe, even if that universe was destined to fall apart, the slightest of congratulations. I found it incredibly touching, probably because of my own established connection to Kaine's narrative and how surprising and sublime it was.
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Jul 17, 2013 15:26
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A new sister, Four, has been introduced: http://www.famitsu.com/news/201307/18036699.html She's described as ruling over a mountain region. She acts very high and mighty, but actually has a fierce inferiority complex. Like her sisters, she has strong sexual desires, but in keeping with her strait-laced personality, she is the only virgin amongst them. Um, good to know, I guess... There's also new gameplay screenshots. It's confirmed that you can call your dragon down onto the ground to help you fight, and they also talk about seamless weapon changing.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:52
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dazat posted:A new sister, Four, has been introduced: http://www.famitsu.com/news/201307/18036699.html  This game is going to be great!
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Jul 18, 2013 19:29
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Nyagato posted:
That's composer Keiichi Okabe to the right, and producer Shiba Takamasa to the left, apparently. I don't know if I've ever seen a picture of Taro Yokoo... Edit: I'm really digging those whale shorts.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:00
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You know, I really really liked and preferred when all the weird sexual stuff was completely understated or had some kind of impact on the life of the characters (Caim's sister wanting to bone him, Kaine's whole situation and the complications it forced onto her) instead of... this. I'll give it a chance, but God drat do I hope it isn't crammed down our throats as loudly and crudely as possible.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:33
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Their licensing of a lovely rape-happy manga can be forgotten, if not forgiven, because it's just a cash-in product that can and should be completely ignored. I said this jokingly a while back, but now I'm starting to wonder if the front-and-center sexuality of the female leads really is commentary on the stereotypical idiot-gamer view of women protagonists, and a deliberate jab against neckbeardy fanboys who can't abide their precious anime waifus being proactive about their own sex lives. It's still a kind of cheap pandering in its own right, but so far it hasn't felt off-putting. It's Drakengard, and Drakengard feels better when your protagonists are depraved and actually memorable (DG1) as opposed to JRPG cookie-cutter and forgettable (DG2). This isn't to say it'll be a good story, or even a good game, but so far it seems interesting, and it will be nice to see just what this team has learned after creating real excellence in NIER. Black August posted:You know, I really really liked and preferred when all the weird sexual stuff was completely understated or had some kind of impact on the life of the characters (Caim's sister wanting to bone him, Kaine's whole situation and the complications it forced onto her) instead of... this. I'll give it a chance, but God drat do I hope it isn't crammed down our throats as loudly and crudely as possible. That's why it gets a pass so far -- we'll have to see what they do with it in the game. The sexual element is going to hit a bad note if it's front and center the whole time, but if they only allude to it and simply use it fuel less openly lurid character interaction, it'll be fine. Mazed fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 04:22
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dazat posted:A new sister, Four, has been introduced: http://www.famitsu.com/news/201307/18036699.html I wish the Famitsu stuff wasn't so fuzzy. Here's Four from the Drakengard website:   Making a weird "uguu" face.
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Jul 22, 2013 18:11
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Wow, that's really JRPG heroine right there. So she's gonna get brutally murdered then I take it?
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Jul 22, 2013 18:12
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Policenaut posted:Wow, that's really JRPG heroine right there. So she's gonna get brutally murdered then I take it? I give her about 4 minutes to live after she first appears.
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Jul 22, 2013 18:25
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Policenaut posted:Wow, that's really JRPG heroine right there. So she's gonna get brutally murdered then I take it? Or her personality is going to be the most hosed up of them all.
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Jul 22, 2013 19:57
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Coughing Hobo posted:Or her personality is going to be the most hosed up of them all. This is my bet.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:18
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Renoistic posted:This is my bet. Why can't it be both?
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Jul 22, 2013 21:15
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Maybe the twist is that she's going to kill every filthy sex-haver.
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Jul 22, 2013 22:18
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That gauntlet of hers makes me hope she fights by punching the poo poo out of things.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:07
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In rereading the Drakengard LP, I figured I'd choke down my initial revulsion for the music and sit and listen to it for a while, while working. poo poo, this kind of thing is actually starting to grow on me.  In all honesty, the approach taken here makes a lot of sense, and is a genuinely beneficial contribution to the game. It's too bad it looks just so severely un-fun to play, due to so little enemy variety and utterly poo poo level design. I wonder what Drakengard 3 is going to do in that respect. If they actually focused level design around set pieces, along the lines of God of War, they could really pull off something cool. It's one thing to have your story get progressively more twisted as you go on, but starting off in a big elaborate fantasy setting that becomes increasingly dark -- not just like, ominous and spikey-evil dark, but in a sense of classical horror with disturbing imagery and really striking use of light and shadows. They took a bunch of stuff from Stravinsky for the music, they could borrow inspiration from, say, Bosch and Goya here. To say nothing of like, Miura, given the manga style...only going a bit more subtle. One can always go on and on about "how could this have been better", though.  Hard to be overly optimistic about Drakengard 3 in that respect, given that the level design in NIER didn't feel particularly inspired either (though the scenery was neat, with such a low-key approach to ruined modern architecture).
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Jul 23, 2013 10:24
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Mazed posted:Their licensing of a lovely rape-happy manga can be forgotten, if not forgiven, because it's just a cash-in product that can and should be completely ignored. I was pretty forgiving of the explicit content at first but since the latest chapter was nothing but sex I've decided to stop summarizing it for the time being (if something interesting happens in later chapters, I'll make note of it). In other news, a (low-qual) gameplay video is out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXqjGcmXBf0#at=377 Some interesting points include: -Looks like you can have at least two, if not all, your apostles assist you in battle; granted they don't seem too useful, but it's a nice change from having to switch characters out. -At 2:40 you can see the seamless weapon changing in action. So far Zero has been confirmed to be able to use both swords and spears. Swords are quick and good for combos, whereas Spears are best for busting through tough defenses. -At 4:20 you can see Zero entering Songstress mode after collecting enough blood. The environment seems to go into slow motion as her speed increases (apparently she is singing too, but you can't really hear it). -At 6:00, they summon Mikhail but he's too high up for the camera to catch him; you can see his fire breath coming down on the enemies though. -I love the flower petals that accompany Zero's attacks. Overall I don't think it looks that bad. The various methods of attack would seem to safeguard a little against your typical battle drudgery. I also notice the enemies and environments are a lot more colorful than I remember Drakengard 1&2 being. I've also been reading through the interviews on the Drakengard section of Dengeki Online and there are some interesting nuggets of info; I'll try summarizing them later.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:26
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It does look better than Drakengard gameplay. Hopefully it will have more variation as well. The blood splatter effect is really obnoxious, though!
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Jul 23, 2013 17:31
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The special edition DLC is a Kaine costume and also includes a replica of Drakengard 1's script for some reason. Weapon stories are comin g back.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:17
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When exactly did the whole flower-eye thing disappear?
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Jul 23, 2013 20:46
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Mazed posted:In rereading the Drakengard LP, I figured I'd choke down my initial revulsion for the music and sit and listen to it for a while, while working. That's because the Drakengard music isn't bad, it's definitely not meant to be sat around and listened to, but for establishing the atmosphere the game required and just for the sake of experimentation and producing a certain ambience, it's genuinely well made, it's better than the majority of videogame soundtracks since it actually fits with the subject matter.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:50
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WeaponBoy posted:When exactly did the whole flower-eye thing disappear? She still has a flower in her eye.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:50
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I imagine you could make some pretty insane dubstep out of Drakengard's music.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:53
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WeaponBoy posted:When exactly did the whole flower-eye thing disappear? I think the game has some sequences before she got her flowery eye.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:22
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JebanyPedal posted:That's because the Drakengard music isn't bad, it's definitely not meant to be sat around and listened to, I'll sit around and listen to it from time to time. Mostly only a couple of tracks (third chapter in the sky, 7, 12 and 13) but still.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:42
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Chapter 2 of the tie-in comic has been translated.
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Jul 24, 2013 01:38
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Renoistic posted:I think the game has some sequences before she got her flowery eye. Yeah, I had watched the video on and off at work so I only really saw the sequences without the flower eye, but there were plenty of sequences with the flower.
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Jul 24, 2013 02:28
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dazat posted:I was pretty forgiving of the explicit content at first but since the latest chapter was nothing but sex I've decided to stop summarizing it for the time being (if something interesting happens in later chapters, I'll make note of it). I get ya. The idea of a Drakengard tie-in could have been interesting, but the trouble is that writers rarely grasp what makes something interesting in the first place, hearing that a story is dark and twisted, and figures that translates only to random shock value. I'll be honest, though: The character of Caim, at the very least, needs no more exposition. Making him forcibly silent was a great choice, because nothing he could have said would have done any better at conveying who he was than his actions. And man, what a wasted opportunity was Furiae. Characters who exist to be nothing but plot devices are never good. From the design materials, it seemed like there was going to be a whole lot more to her character, but cutting it out can only have been a loss. She might as well have been made of cardboard. JebanyPedal posted:That's because the Drakengard music isn't bad, it's definitely not meant to be sat around and listened to, but for establishing the atmosphere the game required and just for the sake of experimentation and producing a certain ambience, it's genuinely well made, it's better than the majority of videogame soundtracks since it actually fits with the subject matter. At this point, I wholeheartedly agree, and it's now getting up there with Silent Hill as far as really effective atmospheric scores go, in my opinion. Totally different kind of horrid atmosphere, but no less remarkable. Another great thing I credit it for is making me go back and listen to some of the stuff it was based on. That was a great idea. The Rite of Spring, which I only had vague memories of as a kid watching Fantasia, is positively fantastic.
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Jul 24, 2013 04:17
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Mazed posted:And man, what a wasted opportunity was Furiae. Characters who exist to be nothing but plot devices are never good. From the design materials, it seemed like there was going to be a whole lot more to her character, but cutting it out can only have been a loss. She might as well have been made of cardboard. I think Furiae could have been a really clever subversion of your classic pure-hearted, generally submissive RPG heroine. I think she was definitely meant as such, it just wasn't executed well. Basically she's just like Caim; feelings for her brother aside, she's bitter as all hell over her terrible situation and the awful world she lives in and wants everyone except her and her brother to just die. But instead of hinting at her negative feelings all throughout the game, we're mostly hit with it all at once in that one infamous scene (I know there are rumors the incest angle was toned down in the English release of the game, but I've played the original Japanese and it's about the same; the extent of the changes as far as I can tell all have to do with Leonard, not Furiae). That's another reason I'm not digging the manga at the moment. Furiae is already acting all super freaky over Caim and nothing has even happened to them yet. I liked to think the fall of their kingdom and the trauma of becoming the Goddess is what exacerbated her creepy feelings, but nope. Girl just crazy from the get go. But now I'm getting a little spergy. In any case, I'm also hoping the classic Drakengard craziness will be handled a bit more subtly in Drakengard 3, like in Nier. dazat fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 05:01
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dazat posted:I think Furiae could have been a really clever subversion of your classic pure-hearted, generally submissive RPG heroine. I think she was definitely meant as such, it just wasn't executed well. Basically she's just like Caim; feelings for her brother aside, she's just bitter as all hell over her terrible situation and the awful world she lives in. But instead of hinting at her negative feelings all throughout the game, we're mostly hit with it all at once in that one infamous scene (I know there are rumors the incest angle was toned down in the English release of the game, but I've played the original Japanese and it's about the same; the extent of the changes as far as I can tell all have to do with Leonard, not Furiae). Yeah I dunno I played Drakengard pretty recently and they're about as direct as they can be about Furiae wanting to get with her brother without fully coming out and saying it. In at least one stage suddenly, and for no apparent reason, the only thing anyone in your party is interested in talking about is how much she wants to jump Caim's bones.   Not the most subtle, and these are only the two examples TDI bothered to screencap. They yammer on about the subject for the entire stage. Naturally the best way to go about an intervention.
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Jul 24, 2013 05:20
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