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KweezNArt posted:So, just heard about Shrine of Arkansas. Anybody care to voice their thoughts on this? Did they get vocal about their ongoing pissing match again? Both sides were wrong in 2001 when the GM kicked out the Shrine, and both sides are still wrong. The way I under stood it, basically the GL of Arkansas got their panties in a bunch over the Shrine having alcohol booths at big public events or some stadium or some dumb poo poo like that and sent a letter of censure along with orders to stop. The claim was that it violated some Grand Lodge rule. The Shrine responded with "go gently caress yourself" only in a lot more words. And they have been Hatfield and McCoying it ever since. Again. Thats the way it read to me, so it may not be entirely accurate. Its dumb as hell.
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Jul 2, 2013 00:01
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I'm not sure my stance on it, personally; I think the entire mess is unfortunate and certainly doesn't do any PR favors for an organization that is supposed to be espousing brotherhood and harmony among its members (and there's a particular chunk of EA catechism that's also relevant here IMO). That being said, most of the handwringing I've seen so far tends to fall into either the "If I wanted to join Kiwanis/Lions/Rotary I would have done that" camp, or the feeling that the presence of non-Masons who (in these people's presumed fears) would just be joining up for the booze and the funny cars will somehow dilute the Shrine as an institution by untethering it from its basic Masonic underpinnings. Of course, putting politics and grudge-holding above problem solving doesn't strike me as particularly Masonic in nature, either, so not sure precisely what I should expect...
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Jul 2, 2013 00:04
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Danica! posted:Did they get vocal about their ongoing pissing match again? I heard it was about two members in particular who were removed as MMs, but who the Shrine kept on their books. Don't know the specifics of why, though, for either side.
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Jul 2, 2013 00:05
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KweezNArt posted:just be joining up for the booze and the funny cars will somehow dilute the Shrine as an institution by untethering it from its basic Masonic underpinnings. The "Masonic underpinnings" are really just "We can't drink at the Lodge, let's form a group to get drunk with friends from the Lodge!" I mean that really -is- their history, and that's fine, but let's not pretend it's something else. People already join it for the booze (and maybe less-so the funny cars), it's just that right now those people happen to be Brothers.
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Jul 2, 2013 00:19
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Colonial Air Force posted:The "Masonic underpinnings" are really just "We can't drink at the Lodge, let's form a group to get drunk with friends from the Lodge!" I've never met a fellow Noble who pretends it's anything else, we tend to be pretty no-bullshit about the Shrine. Except for the hospitals, those we take seriously. Danica! posted:The way I under stood it, basically the GL of Arkansas got their panties in a bunch over the Shrine having alcohol booths at big public events or some stadium or some dumb poo poo like that and sent a letter of censure along with orders to stop. The claim was that it violated some Grand Lodge rule. The Shrine responded with "go gently caress yourself" only in a lot more words. And they have been Hatfield and McCoying it ever since. Hmmm yes a Masonic organization founded in response to alcohol being banned has alcohol at their events. Who'd have loving thunk. KweezNArt posted:I heard it was about two members in particular who were removed as MMs, but who the Shrine kept on their books. Don't know the specifics of why, though, for either side. That said, this is what I'm getting out of it, and the Grand Lodge getting pissy doesn't bother me as much in this case. Part of the fun of being a Shriner is that it's a Masonic organization, and if someone is removed as a Mason for a valid reason they shouldn't have the right to attend extra-Lodge functions that required that Mason status to join in the first place. I'd love a more full writeup though. Also, am I the only Shriner in the thread?
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Jul 2, 2013 02:06
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One of the many reasons I love my Lodge. Alcohol isn't banned, Multiple kegs on premisses. Special dispensation, baby. 
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Jul 2, 2013 02:20
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:
One of the guys kicked out was kicked out because he owned/ran/worked at a liquor store. Like, a legitimate business. Thats pretty fuckin bogus. But again. I don't know what the rule they were invoking said word for word. I would find it hard to believe that the GL of Arkansas prohibits lawful distributors of alcohol from being members. Here was what I am guessing is the initial blowup. Googling is kind of a hit and miss because you get articles from 2001-2012 with various stages of the dumb pissing contest. In all honesty, it sounds like neither side wants to grow up and settle it through meaningful and proper discussion.
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Jul 2, 2013 02:23
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Danica! posted:One of the guys kicked out was kicked out because he owned/ran/worked at a liquor store. Like, a legitimate business. Thats pretty fuckin bogus. But again. I don't know what the rule they were invoking said word for word. I would find it hard to believe that the GL of Arkansas prohibits lawful distributors of alcohol from being members. Ahahahah then yeah the GL should go gently caress itself.
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Jul 2, 2013 02:45
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Given the tone of the above letter, it seems like GL of AK has some kind of restrictions against Masons being involved with alcohol in any capacity. I can understand why a particularly strict GM might take issue with the sale of alcohol to others at Shrine/Masonic events, but coming after a dude because his livelihood happens to involve working/co-owning a liquor store seems like overreaching to me. Also, given the letter's opening statement about how the Shrine's IP has apparently stated that Shrine trumps GL, this really just seems like a fight that's been brewing for a while, and just needed a good excuse to get started.
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Jul 2, 2013 02:55
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Also, am I the only Shriner in the thread? Nope. Noble of the Murat Shrine (Indianapolis) here. 
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Jul 2, 2013 03:31
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Hey WAFFLEHOUND! Are the cardinal virtues of an Entered Apprentice secret?
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Jul 2, 2013 03:49
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The vast part of that section is in plain English and contained within the candidate's monitor, at least in Caliornia.
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Jul 2, 2013 04:07
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While the virtues themselves are not secret, I would not put them in that particular context for the reasons that in some jurisdictions, they may be considered ritual rather than monitorial, and because that information given in the lecture would be spoiled if the person knew them in advance, which would be distracting as it would let the mind of a newly initiated brother jump around and not be fully present in the moment.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:38
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Paramemetic posted:While the virtues themselves are not secret, I would not put them in that particular context for the reasons that in some jurisdictions, they may be considered ritual rather than monitorial, and because that information given in the lecture would be spoiled if the person knew them in advance, which would be distracting as it would let the mind of a newly initiated brother jump around and not be fully present in the moment. Well, I'm going to get close to that line regarding bad WMs and GMs. Justice is something important to Masons, more especially Entered Apprentice Masons. Law, Order, and Righteousness guide us, and our actions should be as such. In addition, harmony is vital for any organization, more importantly this of ours. Refusing a brother Mason for his job or employment , if he is a good person, is unjust, as is refusing one because of his religious beliefs. That breaks our harmony, leaves Brothers dissatisfied, and that should never happen. In that, it is our duty to call people out, even Brother Masons at the highest levels when they break that oath that we all took, when they deny our own out of personal prejudice, or act unjustly. Tl;dr we should be good men, be honest, and never judge someone by what they believe or do, so long as what they do is lawful. People that refuse to follow that are dicks and should be called out for it, but we must forgive them for their injustice. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually. A grudge held too long breeds hatred and anger. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 06:14
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7thBatallion posted:Tl;dr we should be good men, be honest, and never judge someone by what they believe or do, so long as what they do is lawful. Racism is lawful.
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Jul 2, 2013 19:19
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7thBatallion posted:Well, I'm going to get close to that line regarding bad WMs and GMs. Hear, hear.
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Jul 2, 2013 20:37
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Racism is lawful. Give me a few days to look up obscure laws, and I'll get back to you. Basically it is lawful but not just. If a law is not just, I will only break it if it goes against my core beliefs, whereas a lawful and just law I would never break. And something that is unlawful and unjust I will actively fight against. So I guess I'm Neutral good, if my memory of D&D alignments is worth poo poo. Also, a note to any non-masons reading this thread. And I guess Masons as well. So everyone as it were. I would not consider myself a great Mason. I have missed lodge for half a year now, maybe more. I haven't seen the new Worshipful Master, the person responsible for me joining Ashler Lodge and a great friend, in his new role. I am behind on my posting lecture, and I'm pretty sure I've broken my oath at least twice accidentally in this thread. I'm still learning what is secret in my state. I'm also nearing the record for the longest standing first degree in lodge history. But I have remained steadfast in what I know. I have continued to show due restraint upon passions that leave the body tame and governable, kept that steady purpose of mind equally distant from rashness and cowardice, regulated my mind to the dictates of reason, and rendered unto every man his just due. I am working to pay back that which I owe, with interest, and am learning to give to those less fortunate than I, as all mankind be them Masons or not, are brothers in this journey through life. And that brings this rambling back to where it started. I am not a great Mason, and God willing I never will be. There is always more to learn, more to do, and ways to better myself. And that's why I joined in the first place. Hopefully I will be attending lodge regularly again. With any luck I'll prove up to Fellowcraft on the same day I was initiated, one year later. And that's my story so far. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 20:46
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The 5 cardinal virtues appear in a number of different places, and while important to Freemasonry, they are not exclusive to it. As for secrecy, a good rule of thumb is, if it's not encoded, or it is a direct quote from a public source, such as Duncan's ritual or the Monitor, it's kosher. If you're not sure if it's secret, don't write it down. Remember your Obligation? For the record, I also spent a year as an EA. I found that if you are having a delay in progression through degrees, that it helped me to do some reading on the subject. A good place to start is the first chapter of Morals and Dogma, a great book by a racist bastard. If you can digest that drat thing you deserve to step into the next degree IMO, ritual requirements aside. Solvent fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 10, 2013 |
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Jul 8, 2013 14:40
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I just enrolled in the 'Certificate of Masonic Studies' program offered by my state lodge through our Lodge of Research 218. http://218.australianfreemason.com/?page_id=9 It is designed for master masons who are interested in the origins of freemasonry, its development and worldwide spread over centuries, and it's recent evolution into the current grand lodges we find today. Additionally it incorporates its philosophies, symbolism, and teachings. GL is angling it's promotion towards those desirous of going through the various leadership roles within the lodge. So far the readings have been quite interesting I think I'm going to get a lot out of it. This course is separate to our lodges of instruction, as none of it focuses on the usual lodge room ritual. Tell me what types of courses you have on offer or have completed. Do you find that supplementing education courses has helped you in your development in your lodge? Is there any you'd recommend?
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Jul 10, 2013 01:16
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To the best of my knowledge, most of the seminars in California focus on practical skills, such as hall management, lodge finance, record keeping and the like. The ones I took were a waste of time in terms of education, but they provide certification. We have conferences, such as the one that was recently held at UCLA: http://www.cvent.com/events/2nd-international-conference-on-freemasonry/event-summary-108181346c7f458fbbb924a9bd0f52da.aspx The Master and Treasurer of my lodge went to that, I would have myself if I wasn't otherwise engaged.
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Jul 10, 2013 02:33
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Solvent posted:To the best of my knowledge, most of the seminars in California focus on practical skills, such as hall management, lodge finance, record keeping and the like. Would they be useful to someone who is new to lodge management?
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Jul 10, 2013 02:35
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I wish, oh how I wish, that there could be a blast out to all lodges pointing out that the whole "THE ANCIENT CHARTERS THING REQUIRE THE IMMUTABILITY OF THE SOUL" thing was invented by a guy who died in the 1960s. I'm getting really tired of this. 
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Jul 10, 2013 04:39
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Lovable Luciferian posted:Would they be useful to someone who is new to lodge management? No more than a copy of the CMC, and the iMember handbook.
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Jul 10, 2013 05:26
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On the other hand, I feel that I got a lot out of the Lodge Management class I took a few years ago. Since then they have redesigned the Wardens' retreats, but it was information that I wish the retreat had offered. I'm looking at doing Lodge Finance and a few other classes to prepare me for my future term as Lodge secretary, and if they are anywhere as informative as the LM class, I'll consider it time very well-spent.
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Jul 10, 2013 05:52
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:I wish, oh how I wish, that there could be a blast out to all lodges pointing out that the whole "THE ANCIENT CHARTERS THING REQUIRE THE IMMUTABILITY OF THE SOUL" thing was invented by a guy who died in the 1960s. Write it up, I'll send it out.
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Jul 10, 2013 13:56
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The guy who runs the Freemason page is a Libertarian Randroid who can barely keep himself in line, and we've butt heads many times over this fact. I might try writing something up, but I seriously doubt I could talk him into posting it since the dude running that page has gone on about the immutability of the soul and all that as well.
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Jul 10, 2013 18:08
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Eh, what the hell. Just sent this to him: Hello Brother! I was wondering if I could perhaps bother you with a request for a Facebook post on the wall of Freemasons regarding the Ancient Landmarks. There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the actual Ancient Landmarks and a perception that is quite popular in the United States which has perhaps lead to a few misunderstandings on the discussion page. There is an issue with two of the perceived landmarks, specifically "The Immutability of the Human Soul" and, less commonly, the notion of "One True God." The former comes from specifically from Roscoe Pound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Pound) expanding on his beliefs of the Ancient Landmarks from his study of Masonry. Note that he isn't a UGLE official from the 1700s, but an American Mason who would have been a contemporary of some of our older Brethren. On one hand, an attempt to further understand the Ancient Landmarks is a nobel endeavour, but it's probably fair to say that despite the adoption of these ideals by some American Grand Lodges, they are not universal. The notion of "One True God" is at odds with the faiths of many brethren, not just on the sidelines of human spirituality but many brethren who would constitute the Grand Officer Corps in countries where Abrahamic religions are not the mainstream. Vedic traditions are only loosely monotheistic, for example, and I assure you that they would be represented in India, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Likewise, the immutability of the soul is contentious, as Buddhists hold a core tenant of Buddhism to be "anatman" or "without self", essentially a built in spiritual rejection of the very concept of a soul. Is that to say that Buddhists and Hindus are bad Masons, or that they are in violation of the Ancient Landmarks? Given the UK's history with India I imagine you'd find historical records at the UGLE who emphatically disagree. Every Mason is of course entitled to their own beliefs, and some Grand Jurisdictions have obviously adopted alternative Landmarks as their own, but I think it's important to educate brethren that these alternative landmarks are far from universal, and that they're in fact hard to apply across the Fraternity simply because they'd exclude many Master Masons. Education is an important cornerstone of the Masonic life, and I felt it might be worth sharing this discussion with the rest of the Brethren who read this page, that they might better understand their fellow Masons in a different light. Thank you for your time, [redacted]
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Jul 10, 2013 18:50
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That's a good letter. Let us know what happens.
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Jul 10, 2013 21:03
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So, I know the 'sound of body' thing gets beaten to death every twenty pages or so, but I thought I'd share this. I've just been made aware that here in Australia, we have a new Brother with no legs and only one arm. Physical infirmity certainly hasn't stopped him.
Loomer fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 00:15
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Loomer posted:Physical infirmity certainly hasn't stopped him, even though I'm lead to understand there are certain difficulties re: Edit that poo poo out, thanks.
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Jul 11, 2013 00:20
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Sorry. Not actually initiated yet myself, so no idea what's kosher and not.
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Jul 11, 2013 00:25
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Loomer posted:Sorry. Not actually initiated yet myself, so no idea what's kosher and not. You'd probably do well in not misrepresenting yourself as a freemason then...
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Jul 11, 2013 01:43
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My friend was living with his fiancé and was waiting until he was married to join the Masons down in TN. Recently married he now is going to join the chapter her extended family is a member of. If I was interested in joining should I find a contact in my yankee state or wait until he is a member?
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Jul 11, 2013 18:14
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Deegan posted:My friend was living with his fiancé and was waiting until he was married to join the Masons down in TN. Recently married he now is going to join the chapter her extended family is a member of. If I was interested in joining should I find a contact in my yankee state or wait until he is a member? I would find a local contact. The local Lodge is going to be who you decide if you want to be a member of, and they have to decide if they want you as a member. While a recommendation from a far off Lodge does say a little something about you, it is far from a get in free card.
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Jul 11, 2013 22:57
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Because Masonry is literally Skull & Bones and you've got to know the right people to even have a shot. Send them an e-mail, don't be an atheist, and do have a penis or male gender identity. Also don't be a dick. That's pretty much it?
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Jul 12, 2013 04:59
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Because Masonry is literally Skull & Bones and you've got to know the right people to even have a shot. Freemasonry - Have one & don't be one.
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Jul 12, 2013 14:10
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Because Masonry is literally Skull & Bones and you've got to know the right people to even have a shot. Luckily I had some powerful people vouch for me. The right people indeed.
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Jul 12, 2013 23:54
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For some people, it's a family thing. For some, it's friends. I wonder how many people come to us cold, with no family or friends in the Masons at all to start with.
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Jul 13, 2013 03:40
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I joined cold. I had friends who are Masons but didn't know they were Masons until I mentioned wanting to join. None of my family are Masons. I wanted to join when I was younger for the esoterica, then I forgot as I moved through life. Ultimately I remembered my interest. There is probably an old old incarnation of this thread from 9 years ago where I inquired about it, actually.
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Jul 13, 2013 04:00
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Effingham posted:For some people, it's a family thing. For some, it's friends. For me it was both. Grandpa was a Mason, and I always admired who he turned out to be; then I found out one of my friends had joined up, and that was enough to get me to show up at dinners instead of just thinking about it.
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Jul 13, 2013 04:11
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