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40 lbs to freedom posted:except back in the day when kanye would release some stupid poo poo instead of strapping on their monocle to "discern meaning" people would just admit to themselves their favorite rapper made a whoopsie. when kanye put out drunk and hot girls no one was talking about "juxtaposition" or breaking out their numerology books or talking about black history professors or whatever holy gently caress Seriously, when you get to this point that you're citing Birth Of A loving Nation when you're analyzing Kanye's lyrics, you need to back off and just enjoy the poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2013 19:19
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Goldilocks tried the first bowl of Yeezus discussion and said "Ack, reading too far into it" Then she tried the second bowl of Yeezus discussion and said "Blech, too low brow" Then she tried Lou Reeds bowl of Yeezus discussion and it was juuuuuust right
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Jul 12, 2013 19:34
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Electric Bugaloo posted:So either Kanye's horribly regressive and childish for trying to bait people with the whole "I'm gonna get me some white women" thing, or he's deliberately pushing a button that historically (and still today) has carried a great deal of weight within racial politics. I wonder which one it might be... BTW, this: quote:I wonder which one it might be... mistermojo posted:I don't think you need a have a deep critical understanding of the song to understand that he's not just saying that line because he thinks it's funny
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Jul 12, 2013 19:36
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Captain Trips posted:Seriously, when you get to this point that you're citing Birth Of A loving Nation when you're analyzing Kanye's lyrics, you need to back off and just enjoy the poo poo. The lyrics of the song reference Martin Luther King and the OJ Simpson trial. Maybe there's a point about race??? The song is fairly explicitly about how racism has hosed up relationships - "fist up in her like a civil rights sign" is the most obvious example of Kanye deliberately conflating 'black power' and 'power over women' to make a point. Kanye (the character) is trying to enjoy life and have raunchy sex, etc., but keeps thinking about lynchings during the act. The sex turns violent. It's not a fun song. It's contextualized by the other racially-charged lyrics about corrupting white women and so-on. The "Asian pussy" line fits into this theme as well - 'deliberately bad' because the song is about how racism causes black men to feel unempowered and leads them to lash out against women, gays, etc. - corrupting the need for justice into a need for dominance, turning Martin Luther King into OJ Simpson. That's the context. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 20:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The lyrics of the song reference Martin Luther King and the OJ Simpson trial. Maybe there's a point about race??? you are hilariously delusional.
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Jul 12, 2013 20:53
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mistermojo posted:I don't think you need a have a deep critical understanding of the song to understand that he's not just saying that line because he thinks it's funny I think he actually did say it because he thinks it's funny or cool or something along those lines. And he is surrounded by yes-men in the studio at this point in his career who would not dare question him on something related to his music. Kanye is a bit of an idiot savant in the regard that he is an extremely talented musician but at the same time is too arrogant and out-of-touch with reality (or overrates the degree to which he has his finger on the pulse of culture) to understand why that line is garbage/crass/offensive/wack. He is a very solipsistic individual, indeed. thathonkey fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 21:23
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het posted:Well, 2 things. 1) The point of the article was that invoking that stuff specifically gives the lie to Kanye's confidence. 2) I don't think the two alternatives you describe there are actually different from one another. Like, yeah, he's deliberately pushing a button that historically has carried a great deal of weight within racial politics, and when that's done really poorly it comes off like childish baiting. The whole "Oh well Kanye MEANT to sound like a childish douchebag, therefore it's brilliant!" thing is sort of tiresome. For me, this album and MBDTF are way more about Kanye himself, his place in pop culture/society, and his own self-contradictory feelings about that than about anything bigger or more "outside" of that. They're really introspective albums, despite all of the baiting. This is a guy who went from being considered "Common but with better hooks," to a multiplatinum-selling pop star who collaborated with Daft Punk, to a loose cannon shithead who embarrassed himself with racism cries on not one- but two separate televised live events. In between them his mom died and his girlfriend left him, and then he got back on everyone's good side with a monumental (and pretty apologetic) album...and then he knocked up a Kardashian. Kanye's always been hyper-conscious about race relations and the way rap culture feeds into/off of them. It's all over his first three albums- in often massively clever ways. At some point between "George Bush doesn't care about black people" and "I'mma let you finish, but..." it became pretty clear that he'd gone from being a "socially conscious" backpack rapper posterboy to an unstable diva with legitimate issues. MBDTF was his way of addressing that but he'd already turned from respected musician into a true celebrity- with all of the good and bad that that sort of label brings. I guess I don't really have a problem with those embarrassing lines because I do think he's deliberately trying to look bad (as immature as that might be). They fit perfectly into that "psychotic rear end in a top hat" Kanye character- somebody he wants people to know that he isn't, but also somebody that he kinda wants to be. Kanye wants people to take him seriously as a creative person with intelligent thoughts but he also gets off on being a rockstar tabloid punchline. He wants to have his cake and eat it too, and I think he knows that it's a contradiction. But everybody's personal identity is made up of contradictions, and that's what makes it interesting and compelling. It's the same way that the underlying thread in MBDTF is "this guy knows he's enormously talented and successful- and he relishes it- but he also kinda hates himself." quote:BTW, this is really obnoxious, please don't do that. Fair enough. I'm sorry.
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Jul 12, 2013 21:57
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What's wrong with hearing the Asian Pussy line and just thinking "It's funny because sweet and sour sauce goes on Asian food"? Jesus, people, it's a rap album, not a loving Kafka novel.
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Jul 12, 2013 21:58
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Captain Trips posted:What's wrong with hearing the Asian Pussy line and just thinking "It's funny because sweet and sour sauce goes on Asian food"? Nothings wrong with it, but there is also nothing wrong with trying to see subtext or other meanings to it.
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Jul 12, 2013 22:24
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Kanye's usage of "I keep it 300, like the Romans" references a common phrase "keep it one hundred", meaning to keep it real. Kanye keeps it three hundred, or three times as real. However, the movie 300 which he is also referencing is a movie about Spartan soldiers, not Romans. This gaff indicates Kanye's lack of historical knowledge and  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 12, 2013 22:39
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Captain Trips posted:What's wrong with hearing the Asian Pussy line and just thinking "It's funny because sweet and sour sauce goes on Asian food"? I liked Track 2 because it was good. The sound was good and the lyrics were good. The vocals were not as good, he could have sounded more good in my opinion. The rap beats were good as I said earlier. *****SKIP THE REST OF THIS POST IF YOU AREN'T INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING FURTHER***** Gee, an influential and talented black artist provocatively cited iconic symbols of African-American history such as "Free at last, thank god almighty free at last" and the black power fist in a self-loathing song about a crass hookup. I wonder if this happened purely by accident because he's "weird" and "insane"? Or maybe music is a form of art and the guy deliberately delivered themes and meaning through a combination of sounds and lyrics. Oops I'm thinking too much, I should stop listening to music and go read a history book because I'm such an egghead. There's nothing wrong with enjoying media on a surface level but there's also nothing wrong with going deeper. Captain Trips posted:Seriously, when you get to this point that you're citing Birth Of A loving Nation when you're analyzing Kanye's lyrics, you need to back off and just enjoy the poo poo. Dude this album samples Strange Fruit in a song called Blood On The Leaves. A connection to the civil rights movement and race relations in America isn't some reading between the lines bullshit, it is literally screamed at you in the most bombastic song on the album. The people coming into this thread saying to stop thinking and just listen to the music should lead by example. edit: THERE IS A SONG CALLED "NEW SLAVES"! Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 23:10
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Anybody who thinks that seeing references to race politics/history and its related media in a Kanye album is somehow "going too far" needs to re-listen to his entire discography- and maybe take an intro US History class. This poo poo's his bread and butter, and it has been since The College Dropout. He's never been subtle about it and it doesn't really take any critical thinking to see it. It's like listening to a Wiz Khalifa album and thinking "gee, I think he's really into pot...wait, nah- I'm getting too academic here. I should just try to enjoy the music more."
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Jul 12, 2013 23:35
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People just don't see the true sociopolitical depth to ye's Throw Some D's remix and that's a drat shame.
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Jul 12, 2013 23:49
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Captain Trips posted:What's wrong with hearing the Asian Pussy line and just thinking "It's funny because sweet and sour sauce goes on Asian food"? You realize people have spent decades studying the movements of Beethoven and Bach... and they don't even contain lyrics. The concept that music is more than consumer level entertainment isn't new. Imagine if we just looked at Shakespeare as "entertainment". You're the definition of awful when you're the guy outside throwing rocks at the window of the party you thought was too "bourgeois" to attend. Seriously - if people discussing the lyrical means, content, and context of lyrics isn't for you, you should maybe stay the gently caress out of rap threads.
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Jul 13, 2013 00:16
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How do people listen to rap without a functioning knowledge of metaphor and simile? Kanye refers to the effects of systemic racism as demons, which he hides from in the dream-world of 'the nightlife'. He compares the nightlife to Tron* and declares that he'll start a new religion there, devoted to worshipping rap music and/or himself - one in which female nuns bow before him and suck his dick. Again, this provides vital context to 'I Am A God' and the lyrics about dominating women. They take place in a fake universe that Kanye traps himself in out of fear. The light of his 'Tron Bike' is straight-up called a nightlight to keep the boogeymen away. *Tron: a film series about a god-man trapped in the game he created.
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Jul 13, 2013 02:08
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Tremendous Taste posted:People just don't see the true sociopolitical depth to ye's Throw Some D's remix and that's a drat shame. You see, the juxtaposition of Jones' track over Throw Some Ds clearly evokes the inner turmoil of Meyer's "Austin Powers" character on a signified level of gender sociopolitics. The title of the mixtape "Sky High" is a Freudian reinterpretation of the creation myth as not only Oedipal, but permanently entwined with poststructural motifs of creative expression almost entirely free from the authoritarianism of third wave feminism.
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Jul 13, 2013 02:12
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theflyingexecutive posted:You see, the juxtaposition of Jones' track over Throw Some Ds clearly evokes the inner turmoil of Meyer's "Austin Powers" character on a signified level of gender sociopolitics. The title of the mixtape "Sky High" is a Freudian reinterpretation of the creation myth as not only Oedipal, but permanently entwined with poststructural motifs of creative expression almost entirely free from the authoritarianism of third wave feminism. It's always fun when dumb people try to parody 'smart' writing, like a talking dog on youtube. The barks sound like 'I love you!' I ruv you too, theflyingexecutive. I ruv you too.
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Jul 13, 2013 02:32
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Tender Bender posted:Dude this album samples Strange Fruit in a song called Blood On The Leaves. A connection to the civil rights movement and race relations in America isn't some reading between the lines bullshit It would be easier to agree with you if Blood On The Leaves lyrical content had anything to do with that. It's kinda like Kanye started making an album where that was the core theme, but got kinda bored halfway through and decided to hem and haw about his relationships with women. Again. edit: don't get me wrong, I think Blood On The Leaves is far and away the best song on the album. thathonkey fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 02:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's always fun when dumb people try to parody 'smart' writing, like a talking dog on youtube. The barks sound like 'I love you!' Go back to analyzing the Superman movie in Cinema Discusso you human being. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 13, 2013 02:44
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Man, what am I going to do with this beat? I guess I'll just talk about 'bling' over it. "But Kanye, that beat samples Josef Stalin!" Eh, so what. It's not like it means something. AthanasiosTheologis posted:Go back to analyzing the Superman movie in Cinema Discusso you human being. Why? I already did that.
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Jul 13, 2013 02:50
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What has happened here
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Jul 13, 2013 02:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's always fun when dumb people try to parody 'smart' writing, like a talking dog on youtube. The barks sound like 'I love you!' Lol if you think poststructural literary analysis isn't word salad from people trying to justify their $150k educations.
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Jul 13, 2013 02:56
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Paperback Writer posted:What has happened here Folks getting straight baffled by loving Kanye West references to Disney films for children has happened.
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Jul 13, 2013 03:06
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Can we stop getting mad at an entertaining gimmick poster and laugh at hit-boy instead? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oi15xVZXi4 I TURN MY JESUS INTO GOLD t a s t e fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 03:09
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Thinking is hard, why would anyone do that? People who think must actually be the dumb ones.thathonkey posted:It would be easier to agree with you if Blood On The Leaves lyrical content had anything to do with that. It's kinda like Kanye started making an album where that was the core theme, but got kinda bored halfway through and decided to hem and haw about his relationships with women. Again. I don't think lyrical subject matter is necessary to evoke feelings and imagery. For example, using MLK's immortal words "Free at last!" to describe letting a woman's breasts out during an illicit sexual encounter is an uncomfortable word choice that borders on profane. He doesn't then go on to talk about the Civil Rights Movement, but the effect remains. I would say there's a reason why Blood on the Leaves, a song with lyrics superficially talking about the relationships of an African American man, repeatedly evokes images of de-facto publicly sanctioned lynchings. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 03:09
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The interesting thing here is that even if Kanye didn't do all this consciously and he is some infantile bling obsessed rapper how relevant the social commentary in the context might be anyway. You can certainly read far too much into something, but there's something to be said for it being so apropos to his clearly spoken political beliefs.
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Jul 13, 2013 03:18
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The sample from Blood on the Leaves sounds good and shows how Nina Simone was a good singer to work with. I don't need to take it farther. In a way, it is showing unexpected outcomes, people hanging from trees instead of fruit and relationships making people bitter and hateful. I like to take a low concept interpretation and enjoyment from media and it works well for me.
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Jul 13, 2013 03:19
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Rappers like Kanye tend to just yell out references to random black people and things out of a meaningless racial compulsion, like a kind of Phrenological Tourette's. That's why the album has a lyric about getting away with murder like OJ Simpson in a song about the intersection of racism and sexism.
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Jul 13, 2013 03:27
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Tender Bender posted:Thinking is hard, why would anyone do that? People who think must actually be the dumb ones. will you loving look at yourself. it honestly hurts to read this i don't understand how you are ok with the words you are typing. about how its totally ok that kanye's lyrics are retarded and lazy and rushed because they are "juxtaposed" with the "racial context" of whatthefuckever. no one has ever in the history of the planet earth tried so so hard to find meaning in something that just isnt that deep. im sorry guys yeezus just isnt that deep. you're all alone down there. and stop writing like a dork (seriously man do you realize how you sound). (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 13, 2013 03:59
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Outside of this roundabout argument, I'm really not thrilled with the vocals on Black Skinhead. If it came close to the raw intensity of the SNL performance it would be top tier Kanye in my book, but he sounds so muted that it's almost jarring.40 lbs to freedom posted:will you loving look at yourself. it honestly hurts to read this i don't understand how you are ok with the words you are typing. about how its totally ok that kanye's lyrics are retarded and lazy and rushed because they are "juxtaposed" with the "racial context" of whatthefuckever. no one has ever in the history of the planet earth tried so so hard to find meaning in something that just isnt that deep. im sorry guys yeezus just isnt that deep. you're all alone down there. and stop writing like a dork (seriously man do you realize how you sound). I think Yeezus is lazy and rushed, lyrically, and I can also find meaning behind the words in the lyrics because words have meaning and aren't random sounds written and uttered for no reason. Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech: The "Racial Context" of Whatthefuckever. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 04:09
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If this album were a cheeseburger tho what kind of cheeseburger would it be
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Jul 13, 2013 04:10
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40 lbs to freedom posted:no one has ever in the history of the planet earth tried so so hard to find meaning in something that just isnt that deep. im sorry guys yeezus just isnt that deep. Saying that something has meaning or significance to it is not the same thing as saying its "deep". I mean, a stop sign has a meaning but its not "deep". Sampling a song about lynchings has meaning too, and yes it means that "racial context" is involved with the album.
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Jul 13, 2013 04:13
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For the record, we are talking about the album where a song called New Slaves about how 'pussy ain't free' because of the pressure on black men to participate in conspicuous consumption is followed by Kanye, claiming to be hosed up on booze and drugs, saying 'one more gently caress and I could own ya' to an unseen woman. It's like misplaced resentment towards women and the resulting urge to literally possess them is some kind of theme. "I'd rather be a dick than a swallower." "I'm gonna start a new movement [...] getting head by the nuns."
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Jul 13, 2013 04:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
This is an understandable misinterpretation. West has actually added another layer to this lyric in characterizing the song as a "movement" in an almost biological sense. Retroactively this identifies "that's why I'm in it and I can't get out" as a lamentation of his current station, that is, forced to remain in the constant production of these "movements." The "boys at your door" are those pressuring him to rush the production, demanding earlier satisfaction and pushing West into an uncomfortable position. His "swaghili" is then an attempt to separate himself from those "boys," toning out their demands by rendering them foreign to his tongue. In the end, the only way for West to complete the movement is to retreat into himself and focus on a rhythmic pulsation akin to the drumming of a religious ritual. When you think about Yeezus as a series of West's movements packaged together hastily the anger throughout the record makes more sense. West hates his audience, and invites them to fill their ears with his latest poo poo and leave him alone to focus on what matters most to him.
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Jul 13, 2013 04:36
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Reminder that Kanye described his face after a luxury car crash as "looking like Emmett Till" in his first single in the year of our lord two thousand and loving four, and that on the same song he explicitly compared himself to the black revolutionary poet Gil-Scott Heron who he went on to sample like three times. Some of y'all are very slow. Also Yeezus kind of sucks because it doesn't do anything 808s and the back end of MBDTF didn't do better. penismightier fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jul 13, 2013 |
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Jul 13, 2013 04:38
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Sometimes a black power symbol shoved into a woman's vagina, 'til she screams out with pleasure-pain, is just a cigar.
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Jul 13, 2013 04:48
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"How we stop the Black Panthers? Ronald Reagan cooked up an answer" Hmm, not hearing it.
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Jul 13, 2013 04:51
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At least when Kanye says he's going to release an album on XX day, he keeps his word. What's with other artists who keep loving back their album releases? Pisses me off. I'm a huge Pusha T fan, but it's at least 5 times he pushes back his album.
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Jul 13, 2013 06:58
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Pusha T(he) Album Back Again
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Jul 13, 2013 07:30
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SuperMechagodzilla, I just wanted to let you know your analysis is great and I thank you for contributing. New Slaves is my favorite on the album, the production is just absolutely beautiful. How can anyone listen to New Slaves without realizing Kanye West has a lot of anger and opinions about racism (justifiably so?) and that's a major theme throughout not just this album, BUT EVERY ALBUM. "My momma was raised in the era when/ Clean water was only served to the fairer skin/ Doing clothes you would have thought I had help/ But they wasn't satisfied unless I picked the cotton myself." "Meanwhile the DEA/ Teamed up with the CCA/ They tryna lock niggas up/ They tryna make new slaves/ See that's that privately owned prison/ Get your piece today/ They prolly all in the Hamptons/ Bragging 'bout what they made/ gently caress you and your Hampton house/ I'll gently caress your Hampton spouse." Eh, he probably just thinks it sounds cool.  Also, the infamous Kanye West incident during the Katrina telethon was a very exhausted and visibly shaken Kanye speaking bluntly about the institutionalized racism going on at that very moment in the news coverage (black people looting, white people struggling to survive, etc.) and politically too. People criticize him for not putting it more eloquently, but really, if you tried to sum it up in the minimum amount of words possible, "George Bush doesn't care about black people" really is about as simple as it could be. Praise Yeezus.
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Jul 13, 2013 11:45
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