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Baron Bifford posted:Daemon Prince Mortarion might be a little different now. Heck, he was a bit off before his corruption. Switch "weep" with "vomit" and it's pretty much the same
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Jul 13, 2013 14:29
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UberJumper posted:
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Jul 13, 2013 17:11
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What do you guys consider to be the worst 40k book to date ? The Primarchs was probably the worst one I have personally had the misfortune of reading.
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Jul 14, 2013 00:08
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CreepyGuy9000 posted:What do you guys consider to be the worst 40k book to date ? Battle of the Abyss was one of the most awful 40k books i have ever read to date. It was completely nonsensical.
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Jul 14, 2013 02:33
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Cream_Filling posted:I get that, but I'm in disagreement on how much "big" matters to "big and scary and monstrous" because a guy the size of a house who can't even ride around in a normal car or spaceship but has to be carried around like cargo isn't a more scary super-intelligent demigod, he's clifford the big red dog. I just think it makes the whole setup sillier instead of scarier or cooler. But the Primarchs don't ride around in 'normal' spaceships, they have their vehicles and equipment designed for them because they are literal demigods in Imperial society. Why do you think Imperial ships have such gigantic interiors? Every major piece of architecture built in M31 gets described as 'cavernous' or 'towering' because its designed to fit giants.
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Jul 14, 2013 03:27
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CreepyGuy9000 posted:What do you guys consider to be the worst 40k book to date ? There's far worse out there. See: C.S. Goto and Henry Zou.
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Jul 14, 2013 03:33
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Anything by CS Goto. The Dawn of War book was so bad that I didn't touch another BL book for almost a year.
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Jul 14, 2013 03:39
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Can-O-Raid posted:But the Primarchs don't ride around in 'normal' spaceships, they have their vehicles and equipment designed for them because they are literal demigods in Imperial society. Why do you think Imperial ships have such gigantic interiors? Every major piece of architecture built in M31 gets described as 'cavernous' or 'towering' because its designed to fit giants. But they really don't have special vehicle designs. They seem to ride around in regular Astartes craft. Otherwise Forge World would already be selling them. Imperial ships have gigantic interiors for stuff like control rooms because they're megalomaniacs. The regular parts of the ship are described as cramped and crappy, just like the rooms in an actual ship. "Demigod" means half-god, half-man. The key to the mythic concept is that they are liminal beings - having aspects of the divine but at a scale that can interact with normal people and be part of human society like a peer instead of like a literal god that interferes with human affairs through tricks, disguises, and intermediaries, and with human attitudes and interests instead of the unfathomable whims and immortal motivations of the gods. Hercules wasn't a 20 foot monster that shot fire from his two heads. He was a dude badder and stronger than any normal person because of his divine lineage, but in the end he was still a man who interacted with normal society, not a monster completely out of touch and out of scale to it. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 03:41
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Cream_Filling posted:But they really don't have special vehicle designs. They seem to ride around in regular Astartes craft. Otherwise Forge World would already be selling them. Didn't he also hang out with a small jewish man nicknamed Pretzie in 70's new york? Don't deny it, you'd read Guilliman in New York too.
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Jul 14, 2013 03:46
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bunnyofdoom posted:Didn't he also hang out with a small jewish man nicknamed Pretzie in 70's new york? Played by Robert "Girlyman" Strong
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Jul 14, 2013 03:47
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Cream_Filling posted:Played by Robert "Girlyman" Strong Of course, his Ultramar accent is so strong that he's dubbed over by Leman Russ.
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Jul 14, 2013 03:50
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Can-O-Raid posted:But the Primarchs don't ride around in 'normal' spaceships, they have their vehicles and equipment designed for them because they are literal demigods in Imperial society. Why do you think Imperial ships have such gigantic interiors? Every major piece of architecture built in M31 gets described as 'cavernous' or 'towering' because its designed to fit giants. Well since pretty much all imperial ships are built according to the STC's which come from the dark age of technology, isn't it possible they are so massive/towering/cavernous because they originally were made so they could also house/hold men of iron? In First and Only they seem to describe them as massive and towering.
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Jul 14, 2013 04:07
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I'm re-reading Eisenhorn since a friend (non-English speaker) of mine asked me to translate the first few chapters for her, and man, I just love it every time. The whole "gently caress no, I'm an Inquisitor" dialogue in the third chapter, together with the whole "speaking to the audience" thing from the first two chapters really establish a strong protagonist.
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Jul 14, 2013 08:50
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Cream_Filling posted:But they really don't have special vehicle designs. They seem to ride around in regular Astartes craft. Otherwise Forge World would already be selling them. I agree to an extent, but I think you're failing to consider two important things. One is that primarchs aren't really Demi-gods, they are full blooded, divinely created beings. Gods, full stop. Lesser than the Emperor, sure, but thats like saying Doombreed is lesser than Khorne. Regular Astartes are Demi-gods, seeing as they were created from both regular men and a divine spark. Second, the society these gods live and interact in is weird as poo poo. Navigators? Warp? Psykers? Being able to interact with those sorts of things and still be, for the setting, 'normal,' makes the Hercules comparison fall apart. Hercules lived and adventured in a world the Greeks were already familiar with. The Primarchs, on the other hand, live and aadventure in a world completely alien to our experience. On the other hand, if a writer chooses to ignore all this in his or her next pew pew spacemans story, nothing will make me more 'right' than them or you, considering the lee-way BL writers get.
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Jul 14, 2013 14:36
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Hercules saw some weird poo poo, too. I'm just imagining the logistics otherwise. "The Primarch wants to inspect the defenses on the south of the city." "His stormbird is still grounded for repairs." "Uh, ok. Maybe we can commandeer a dump truck because he doesn't fit inside our rhinos." "Take the Primarch to the main strategium. Here, you'll need these plasma cutters to cut a hole for him."
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Jul 14, 2013 14:46
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All these vehicles and stuff are already cut to huge scale, I mean, a dude in Terminator armor is significantly larger than a normal marine, and they aren't bumping their heads on door frames.
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Jul 14, 2013 15:01
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EyeRChris posted:I can't recall the title of the book but it was one of the short story collection Horus Heresy books. I want to say The Primarchs. The worst part of it is that all of that poo poo is now canon and we have to live with it. I like to pretend a lot of poo poo didn't really happen, like that god awful Nemesis book.
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Jul 14, 2013 16:38
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The one where they somehow bound a daemon to an untouchable?
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Jul 14, 2013 17:39
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EyeRChris posted:Not to mention the torture/foreplay of Fulgrum where Fabulous Bile and the other children were fascinated by this chance to see what makes a Primarch and how much they can endure. And then came the butt plugs... The part that amazes me is that it's the same author. I could understand if some hack had taken the story and gone in a  direction, but this was the same guy who wrote Fulgrim. He wrote a good long, deep (for BL) back story with a tragic fall and a dark ending. It may not win any awards, but it fleshed out Fulgrim nicely.At what point did Graham Neil wake up and think "hmm, I don't like how I left Fulgrim stuck in a painting while a demon wears his body , I'll have to retcon that. What's the best way to do this? I know... BUTT PLUGS!!!" I will happily sit next to my wife reading my books about pew pew spacemen without feeling the slightest bit ashamed (she asks me when my next "Catholics in Space" book is coming). But reading that made me feel like I was standing on the precipice of Hentai or something. She asked if my book was good. I had to keep a straight face as I said "it's...not the best". I worry that one day she'll pick up one of the collection at random to see what I'm reading and it will be that one... Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 17:48
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The entire fantasy genre originated in history nerds nerding out on history without having to be constrained by how real life turned out and the limited historical record. Unfortunately, pick something that's not as obscure as you think to reference and integrate it poorly into a work, and you get one of those situations where you end up looking much less smart than you think you are.
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Jul 14, 2013 17:57
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DO IT TO IT posted:Speaking of recommendations that aren't in the OP, are there any solid books that feature the Tyranids as the primary antagonists? I like the lore of how stuff like Tyranid weapons function a lot. Warriors of Ultramar by Graham McNeill was pretty f'ing awesome. When anyone asks about Tyranids I point them to this book. It's brutal, and a lot of fun. I think it is only available in the Omnibus. I don't think you need to have read the previous book to get on with this one. It's 40k. People died, there are heroes, assholes, and fist pumping. Philthy fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 14, 2013 |
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Jul 14, 2013 18:47
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Dog_Meat posted:The part that amazes me is that it's the same author. I could understand if some hack had taken the story and gone in a I just love the transition in torture they had in that book. First its all scaples and electroshock. Then potato peelers and wood cutting tools and they decided Fulgrum had too big of an erection after all that so they said gently caress it...bring out the space marine helmet sized butt plug and show no mercy!
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Jul 14, 2013 19:37
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Man, I know I shouldn't, but I'm tempted to read it only because I can't wrap my head around a Space Marine buttplug. Also, how did you guys find Angels of Darkness?
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Jul 14, 2013 20:29
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Azran posted:Man, I know I shouldn't, but I'm tempted to read it only because I can't wrap my head around a Space Marine buttplug. drat you for making me dig it out, but Graham McNeil, possibly while on cocaine posted:
This was not taken from some fan fiction from some dark corner of the internet. This is in an actual book. On my shelf. Someone paid an established author with actual money for this. And I just transcribed it for the internet...
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Jul 14, 2013 22:21
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Cream_Filling posted:But they really don't have special vehicle designs. They seem to ride around in regular Astartes craft. Otherwise Forge World would already be selling them. Also, the implication is that the Emperor could fit into the laboratory. This is in the same book wherein when Corax meets the Emperor he briefly sees the Emperor as a normal-sized guy.
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Jul 14, 2013 22:39
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You know how ADB loves multiple-meaning titles? When he gets to the bit of Black Legion history where Fabulous Bile clones Horus, he should call it 'Emperor's Child.'
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Jul 15, 2013 00:30
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JerryLee posted:This has always been funny to me simply because in game-mechanical terms terminator armor can't withstand plasma. On two dice, but still.... Cream_Filling posted:They're still plenty inhuman considering that even the least psychic of them is basically spiritually radioactive to the point where he throws off interstellar communications if he gets too close to the astropaths. And that nobody can even quite remember or agree on what they look like because the details of their appearance seem to shift and play weird tricks on human perception and memory.
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Jul 15, 2013 01:04
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re: The Primarchs There's one good story there, which is The Serpent Beneath by Rob Sanders. It's about the Alpha Legion and it's pretty clever. There's an e-book copy if you don't want to slog through the rest of the stories. re: worst 40k book I guess it's the Blood Angels Omnibus, which was outright trite and boring and full of Sanguinius wanking.
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Jul 15, 2013 02:11
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DirtyRobot posted:I'm pretty sure that in Deliverance Lost, Corax can't really fit into the gene seed laboratory that the regular astartes can. So it is a thing. There's also the custom built quarters in the palace for each the Primarchs where everything is oversize and designed for them. Corax has a serene, dimly lit suite to make him feel at home. Makes you wonder what Angron's quarters would be like. Word is you should also be careful opening Mortarion's door Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 08:14
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I just finished Void Stalker from night lords, Night Lords is probably the best 40k series i have ever read. ADB did an amazing job with the series and the characters. A question: Who is Decimus supposed to be? His name follows the same naming scheme as Octavia (8) and Septimus (7) so would he be their sons son? p.s. Uzas  UberJumper fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 08:18
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UberJumper posted:I just finished Void Stalker from night lords, Night Lords is probably the best 40k series i have ever read. ADB did an amazing job with the series and the characters. There was a 8th slave that was picked up during blood reaver IIRC.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:22
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Chiwie posted:There was a 8th slave that was picked up during blood reaver IIRC. That is pretty grimdark  , but fits perfectly with the 40k setting.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:23
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Arquinsiel posted:To be fair, Dante wears a cast of Sanguinius' face. Though that doesn't actually prove anything: there are psyker powers in 40K (in Dark Heresy specifically, as 'Biomancy') that let you change your physical appearance.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:26
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UberJumper posted:I just finished Void Stalker from night lords, Night Lords is probably the best 40k series i have ever read. ADB did an amazing job with the series and the characters. Octavia is the eighth slave and Nonus, who dies is the ninth. There's no definite answer but it's strongly suggested that Decimus is suppose to be Octavia and Septimus' son who Variel kidnapped and brought to the legion. Decimus was then implanted with Talos' geneseed and is suppose to be compatible so he has Talos' gifts but doesn't suffer from his curse.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:34
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Dog_Meat posted:The part that amazes me is that it's the same author. I could understand if some hack had taken the story and gone in a poo poo PAINTING DirtyRobot posted:I'm pretty sure that in Deliverance Lost, Corax can't really fit into the gene seed laboratory that the regular astartes can. So it is a thing. Big E is human-sized; whenever he seems physically huge and it's not an allegory or psychic illusion, it's because he's wearing hugeass armor. The primarchs on the other hand are all 2.5m or taller, and even Alpharius and Omegon are taller than standard astartes. However, they're not 5 meters tall or something as absurd as that, and any vehicle that can carry terminators can accommodate them as well - a point is made that they're a bit bigger than marines in tactical dreadnaught armor even when not wearing plate that significantly increases their bulk.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:39
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Were the Thousand Sons the only Legion not renamed after they found their primarch? They seem to have gotten the name from the Emperor himself.
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Jul 15, 2013 08:57
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Nephilm posted:poo poo PAINTING Ok, I'll give you that. But an artist going batshit and painting with the blood of people she murders isn't too much of a stretch in a dark Slaanesh story. And it's described without detail, just enough so you know that she's up to her elbows in the 40k version of some Tracy Emin poo poo. Reflection Crack'd is literally Fulgrim being willingly rear end raped by his sons, with details of his magnificent body and insertion, and through all of this he's taking to them (with the occasional soft sigh) Fulgrim got gradually crazier until the orgy opera rapey murder party felt like a natural progression. Mirror Crack'd is like McNeil woke up with a hangover, realised he had a deadline and copied and pasted a story from some fan-slash-fiction site. DirtyRobot posted:I'm pretty sure that in Deliverance Lost, Corax can't really fit into the gene seed laboratory that the regular astartes can. So it is a thing. Is the star child/sensai still a thing? Because if the Emperor was supposed to have had human children and he's a 12 foot war machine, it's going to raise a few questions. You know what? Let's not go there. That way lies the path of Slaanesh, tentacles and primarch rear end dildos...
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Jul 15, 2013 09:30
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excerpt from "The Primarchs" posted:Marius followed Lucius’s example and selected an instrument of torture from the collection of devices Fabius had laid out. He turned the pear-shaped device around in his hands, twisting a metal cog handle that gradually spread the leaves of the pear apart. Satisfied, he returned it to its original shape and moved down the gurney to place the device between the primarch’s legs.  I've always imagined the Emperor's Children as the Cenobites from Hellraiser.
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Jul 15, 2013 09:42
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Baron Bifford posted:Are they talking about this thing? That was the impression, yes. Although I imagine it would be some Mars crafted dark age of tech version of it with a machine spirit you REALLY want to appease before use. Probably based on the STC design for a drop pod. And they're definetly inspired by the Cenobites, with the chattering teeth, taught skin and mutilated features. Although I think Pinhead should wear garish pink and rock a guitar shaped cannon in the next goddawful sequel. I only recently came back to SA after a long hiatus and I'm a little concerned that the bulk of my posts have been about a pulp book describing the anal rape of a demigod
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Jul 15, 2013 09:56
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Dog_Meat posted:Ok, I'll give you that. But an artist going batshit and painting with the blood of people she murders isn't too much of a stretch in a dark Slaanesh story. And it's described without detail, just enough so you know that she's up to her elbows in the 40k version of some Tracy Emin poo poo. It's Graham McNeil; to say he's hit or miss is an understatement. Let's stop talking about demigod sexual torture and instead I ask, any good books in the last 5 months?
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Jul 15, 2013 10:05
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