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Riiseli posted:It's quite common for puppies even w/o a crate to sleep happily for 7 hrs at three months of age. Restricting movement via crate nearly guarantees there will be no accidents (if the puppy is not tiny). Besides most dogs (puppy or not) will raise a ruckus if they need to go and are in an area (be it a crate, room or a house) they consider a place not to be soiled. And the smaller the area the higher the likelihood of this happening and you waking up. I've certainly never had an overnight accident after the dogs have been house trained. This doesn't work for us. Our dog will happily pee in his crate and wallow in it all day while we're gone. It's usually while we're at work, but the other day it happened while we were only gone for 3-4 hours. That's one of the reasons the 'welcome home' spaz-outs I asked for help with a little ways up are even more of a pain when he's covered in puppy pee and jumping all over you. He's 6 months old, probably too old to be doing that sort of thing, but how the hell can you even curb it? Just have to let him outgrow it I guess.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:52
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TShields posted:This doesn't work for us. Our dog will happily pee in his crate and wallow in it all day while we're gone. It's usually while we're at work, but the other day it happened while we were only gone for 3-4 hours. That's one of the reasons the 'welcome home' spaz-outs I asked for help with a little ways up are even more of a pain when he's covered in puppy pee and jumping all over you. He's 6 months old, probably too old to be doing that sort of thing, but how the hell can you even curb it? Just have to let him outgrow it I guess. He's not going to outgrow it if you let him continue practicing the behavior.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:55
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TShields posted:This doesn't work for us. Our dog will happily pee in his crate and wallow in it all day while we're gone. It's usually while we're at work, but the other day it happened while we were only gone for 3-4 hours. That's one of the reasons the 'welcome home' spaz-outs I asked for help with a little ways up are even more of a pain when he's covered in puppy pee and jumping all over you. He's 6 months old, probably too old to be doing that sort of thing, but how the hell can you even curb it? Just have to let him outgrow it I guess. You need to go back and read the housetraining guide. The more he practices the behavior the more likely it is to occur again in the future. If you don't jump on top of this now, you're likely to have a dog who crate and house soils because he's learned that it's okay. Step up your game, get the kitchen timer like I wrote in there and start disciplining yourself to follow the regimen. This is not the dog's problem, it is your problem. Most dogs should be pretty reliably housetrained by 16 weeks, and if you're diligent, it should happen much sooner. The occasional accident is a different story, but this sounds like it's happening regularly.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:58
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TShields posted:This doesn't work for us. Our dog will happily pee in his crate and wallow in it all day while we're gone. It's usually while we're at work, but the other day it happened while we were only gone for 3-4 hours. That's one of the reasons the 'welcome home' spaz-outs I asked for help with a little ways up are even more of a pain when he's covered in puppy pee and jumping all over you. He's 6 months old, probably too old to be doing that sort of thing, but how the hell can you even curb it? Just have to let him outgrow it I guess. To curb welcome home madness, ignore puppy. My older dog pees in excitement sometimes, so I open the crate, let her out to toilet, and greet her after she's been to the toilet and calmed a little. Frantic behaviour makes me stand up and turn my back on her. It sounds like your pup isn't crate/house trained properly. How long are you crating for during the work day?
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Jul 15, 2013 21:00
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>m.cache See I don't mind barking, if there's a real reason for it. (Not that my dogs have to be that loud for me to wake up.) Never had a problem with asking to go out, if it wasn't really required. Mind you I don't crate outside of dog sports and occasional over night visits (usually not then either). But waking up with a clock is definitely a good idea. I just think you can get by with getting up once already. And vary the time. I think somebody did the same thing you are doing and had issues with the puppy barking just before the time it was used to getting out. Same (varying the time) goes for feeding or you can easily get a dog that gets all antsy, whiny and pacey at exactly the same time of night. These things don't apply to all dogs, but probably better safe than sorry, if you happen to find behaviors like these annoying.TShields posted:This doesn't work for us. Our dog will happily pee in his crate and wallow in it all day while we're gone. It's usually while we're at work, but the other day it happened while we were only gone for 3-4 hours. That's one of the reasons the 'welcome home' spaz-outs I asked for help with a little ways up are even more of a pain when he's covered in puppy pee and jumping all over you. He's 6 months old, probably too old to be doing that sort of thing, but how the hell can you even curb it? Just have to let him outgrow it I guess.
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Jul 15, 2013 21:13
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Riiseli posted:>m.cache See I don't mind barking, if there's a real reason for it. (Not that my dogs have to be that loud for me to wake up.) Never had a problem with asking to go out, if it wasn't really required. Mind you I don't crate outside of dog sports and occasional over night visits (usually not then either). But waking up with a clock is definitely a good idea. I just think you can get by with getting up once already. And vary the time. I think somebody did the same thing you are doing and had issues with the puppy barking just before the time it was used to getting out. Same (varying the time) goes for feeding or you can easily get a dog that gets all antsy, whiny and pacey at exactly the same time of night. These things don't apply to all dogs, but probably better safe than sorry, if you happen to find behaviors like these annoying. As for the puppy learning when we're about to take it out I have been incrementing the timer (started at 2 hours, up to 3). So as far as she knows we may wake her up at any point during the night. Some things that have helped us: - Leave the radio on near the puppy. The background noise helped her calm down - Cover her crate with a sheet. We had a problem with her getting up at sunrise. Once we covered her crate she slept an extra hour, which means so did we. - She had a tendency to whine in the morning when the sun came up (around 6 am). We started getting up but not paying attention to the puppy. We would just get onto the computer next to her for an hour and let her out when we were ready. Once she saw us in the room she would quiet up and lay back down. Probably just afraid of being left alone for so long.
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Jul 15, 2013 21:19
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m.hache posted:As for the puppy learning when we're about to take it out I have been incrementing the timer (started at 2 hours, up to 3). So as far as she knows we may wake her up at any point during the night.  I must admit I need at least eight and preferably nine hours of sleep a night and getting up more than once a night would be terrible for me. So I just wanted to mention you could most likely (if the puppy is not tiny) get a bit more uninterrupted sleep already, if you wanted. But if you don't need it, the puppy must be satisfied by the arrangement you've got. And I didn't think you would have a problem with anticipation at this time, just wanted to give you a heads up so you can avoid it in the future as well.
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Jul 15, 2013 21:31
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Riiseli posted:Sounds like you are doing quite famously Appreciate it. As an aside, I miss my sleep haha. It's worth it though.
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Jul 15, 2013 21:40
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MrFurious posted:You need to go back and read the housetraining guide. The more he practices the behavior the more likely it is to occur again in the future. If you don't jump on top of this now, you're likely to have a dog who crate and house soils because he's learned that it's okay. Step up your game, get the kitchen timer like I wrote in there and start disciplining yourself to follow the regimen. This is not the dog's problem, it is your problem. Most dogs should be pretty reliably housetrained by 16 weeks, and if you're diligent, it should happen much sooner. The occasional accident is a different story, but this sounds like it's happening regularly. I'm not trying to be combative, but I'm missing something- how is the kitchen timer going to stop him from peeing in his kennel when we're gone all day? Riiseli posted:You left your dog alone in the crate for too long during the day too early. Couldn't possibly hold it and learned to soil the crate. This is why I would never (if I crated) leave a puppy in the crate alone for more than 3 hrs at a time to make sure they don't have to soil their nest, because that is an awful thing to force your dog to do. And no. Night and day are not comparable. A puppy is more likely to sleep during the night and sleeping means slower metabolism (plus smaller water intake) and these should result in a puppy that'll hold it for longer during the night. We have no choice. We work for a living. Not really sure what other options we have at this point.
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Jul 15, 2013 21:44
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TShields posted:We have no choice. We work for a living. Not really sure what other options we have at this point. You need to either have someone come and let him out during the day or you need to deal with a dog that pisses in his kennel. He's too young to hold it that long.
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Jul 15, 2013 21:52
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TShields posted:We have no choice. We work for a living. Not really sure what other options we have at this point.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:08
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TShields posted:I'm not trying to be combative, but I'm missing something- how is the kitchen timer going to stop him from peeing in his kennel when we're gone all day? I missed that you were gone all day long, I apologize. But the bottom line is that if he can't hold it as long as you're leaving him, you need to stop asking him to hold it that long because all you're doing is practicing failure. You can either pen him in an area with a designated spot where it IS okay to go to the bathroom, or find someone to come and let him out periodically. That's what the kitchen timer is for - to make sure YOU keep to the schedule. This is one of the few instances in which I think pee pads are acceptable, but I still think you're way, way better off getting someone to stop by and let him out. The time and availability requirements for a puppy are frequently underestimated and it's why I try to spell it out on the OP for people thinking they want to get one. As you are learning, if everyone in the home works outside the home full time, it is very difficult to accomplish what should be very simple tasks.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:18
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MrFurious posted:I missed that you were gone all day long, I apologize. But the bottom line is that if he can't hold it as long as you're leaving him, you need to stop asking him to hold it that long because all you're doing is practicing failure. You can either pen him in an area with a designated spot where it IS okay to go to the bathroom, or find someone to come and let him out periodically. That's what the kitchen timer is for - to make sure YOU keep to the schedule. This is one of the few instances in which I think pee pads are acceptable, but I still think you're way, way better off getting someone to stop by and let him out. The time and availability requirements for a puppy are frequently underestimated and it's why I try to spell it out on the OP for people thinking they want to get one. As you are learning, if everyone in the home works outside the home full time, it is very difficult to accomplish what should be very simple tasks. Is there like a service that comes in and does this or something? Literally every person I know works during the week.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:51
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Try a dog walker or pet sitter.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:58
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TShields posted:Is there like a service that comes in and does this or something? Literally every person I know works during the week. It's really common, most big cities have a company like this: http://www.kingstonpetsitting.com/services.php
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Jul 15, 2013 23:02
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Ikantski posted:It's really common, most big cities have a company like this: http://www.kingstonpetsitting.com/services.php I'm just trying to get an accurate gauge here.. this is directly from the site: Potty Break / Small Animal / Cat Visit • $15.00 Includes 20 minutes of tender loving care, fresh food and water and a much needed potty break for your canine pal. Let's assume this price is good for the entire country. This service is $15 a day to walk my dog? So it's like $4,000 a year for my dog to not pee in his kennel?
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Jul 15, 2013 23:18
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TShields posted:Let's assume this price is good for the entire country. This service is $15 a day to walk my dog? So it's like $4,000 a year for my dog to not pee in his kennel?
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Jul 15, 2013 23:26
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TShields posted:I'm just trying to get an accurate gauge here.. this is directly from the site: Did you not look into any of this prior to getting a puppy? If you can't/ don't want to go with that, teach your dog to eliminate on a pee pad.
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Jul 15, 2013 23:32
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TShields posted:I'm just trying to get an accurate gauge here.. this is directly from the site: Most people will offer discounts for regular or daily service, but it depends upon the area and the network. No one is saying you can't own a dog and work full time. Lots of people do this. They usually adopt older, mature dogs, typically with low energy requirements. If you adopt an older working border collie and then crate it or leave it for 9 hours a day, you deserve to have your house torn apart because you didn't do your homework. That's a terrible lifestyle fit for the animal in question. Likewise, if you adopt a young puppy, you should do the homework ahead of time and make a conscious decision that you can afford to dedicate the time and money to the animal. Regardless of the circumstances that led up to now, you have a puppy who is clearly NOT housebroken. You can either suck it up and take the appropriate steps to deal with the problem in front of you (and you have multiple options -- if you really think it's going to take a year to housetrain your dog you're just being obtuse), or you can piss and moan about it. But have no illusions about this being the dog "just being a puppy" at this point.
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Jul 16, 2013 03:00
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Can your wife take him to work? You mentioned she was a vet tech. Although he is probably too young to be around sick dogs. You're either going to have to pay someone or find a way to go home every lunch break to let him out. And this is why I'm never getting a puppy again. Both my adult adoptees came practically housebroken (had to do some reinforcement the first week or so).
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Jul 16, 2013 04:10
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MrFurious posted:Most people will offer discounts for regular or daily service, but it depends upon the area and the network. No one is saying you can't own a dog and work full time. Lots of people do this. They usually adopt older, mature dogs, typically with low energy requirements. If you adopt an older working border collie and then crate it or leave it for 9 hours a day, you deserve to have your house torn apart because you didn't do your homework. That's a terrible lifestyle fit for the animal in question. Likewise, if you adopt a young puppy, you should do the homework ahead of time and make a conscious decision that you can afford to dedicate the time and money to the animal. Regardless of the circumstances that led up to now, you have a puppy who is clearly NOT housebroken. You can either suck it up and take the appropriate steps to deal with the problem in front of you (and you have multiple options -- if you really think it's going to take a year to housetrain your dog you're just being obtuse), or you can piss and moan about it. But have no illusions about this being the dog "just being a puppy" at this point. No, we didn't plan on a puppy. We went to the shelter looking for a big dog to play with our big dog, but after arranging play dates, she hated all but one of them. He turned out to be a nightmare for the cats. We couldn't touch a cat without him flipping his poo poo and charging the cat. As cats outnumber dogs (and people) in the house, we had to take him back the next morning. That was when we saw this poor little critter- 4 month old stray, sleeping soundly on a blanket in the blaring cacophony of the shelter. I thought something was wrong with him until we asked someone to let us in, and he perked right up and licked our hands and started wagging his tail. Love at first sight. We took him home instead, and he got along fantastically with our big dog. It's not that he's not aware that he needs to go outside, he just doesn't let us know when he has to go. We're doing the kitchen timer thing - set for about 80 minutes, but just as an example of how things work- yesterday, when I got home, I immediately took him out. He peed on the back deck and then stood by the door wanting to go back inside. I did not praise because I don't want him to pee on the deck, but it happens. I waited another 5 minutes or so, wandered around the yard. He followed, tried to eat clumps of grass, mulch, pinecones, etc. We went inside- he gets food, big dog gets food, cats get food. By then, he's finished swallowing his bowl whole. I take him immediately back out, because I know from prior experience, he now has to pee and poo. He does. "YAY, GOOD BOY!" Treat! Back inside. Timer starts. It's been about 12 minutes at this point. Pent up energy, so he chases the one cat who wants to be chased (dumb as a loving brick, also my favorite of the pride), plays with big dog, I start making dinner. Maybe 17 minutes since I got home. He pees on the floor behind me. I make a noise to stop him, he stops, I immediately take him outside. He pees on the deck. Back inside. We did everything by the timer except one other time around 9:45 when he peed on the floor between timer dings. I know the crate thing is a problem, but I don't have that kind of extra money a month. And if I came home every lunch break, I'd never be able to eat lunch. Yes, my wife is a vet tech. She's never had a puppy either. No, she can't take him to work every day- they're a small, independently owned operation. It's a retired NC State Veterinary Science professor's pet project (no pun intended). They don't have the space to give up one of their kennels every single day.
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Jul 16, 2013 14:13
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TShields posted:No, we didn't plan on a puppy. We went to the shelter looking for a big dog to play with our big dog, but after arranging play dates, she hated all but one of them. He turned out to be a nightmare for the cats. We couldn't touch a cat without him flipping his poo poo and charging the cat. As cats outnumber dogs (and people) in the house, we had to take him back the next morning. That was when we saw this poor little critter- 4 month old stray, sleeping soundly on a blanket in the blaring cacophony of the shelter. I thought something was wrong with him until we asked someone to let us in, and he perked right up and licked our hands and started wagging his tail. Love at first sight. We took him home instead, and he got along fantastically with our big dog. There are two mistakes here. 1 - Take him out on a leash so you can show him the designated spots, don't let him wander. Leash him up, stand on the grass so that grass is the only option he has. Stand there and wait. 2 - Read the guide again. You go back outside right after he wakes up, eats, or PLAYS. If he's running around the house, you're on duty to put him on a leash and take him back out. Also, if he really peed 3 times in 20 minutes, then he's not actually relieving himself, he's marking, which means you need to stay out there with him longer until he's out of ammo.
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Jul 16, 2013 14:37
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MrFurious posted:stand on the grass so that grass is the only option he has. Stand there and wait. I don't think standing will be particularly helpful. In my experience it just ends up with a bored and frustrated dog. I would do leashed walks around the block (I know, it's a lot of walking) until he's a bit more trustworthy. I would expect most dogs to be capable of being reliably housebroken by 5-6 months old. Whether they are or not depends on the management up to that point.
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Jul 16, 2013 14:56
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MrFurious posted:There are two mistakes here. It's not dribbling out, he's peeing.. Like, a lot. I'm not an expert obviously, but he's not like peeing on a tree, it's just on the grass just beyond the little brick walkway. When he goes in the house, it's a puddle bigger than a dinner plate. Great for the laminate, I'm sure. I'm not exaggerating, this dog pees huge amounts, and often. He's under 20 pounds and his poops are bigger than our 60 pound lab mix. His paws are already as big as hers. He's going to be a monster of a dog. And I don't know if a leash would help honestly, unless I am to drag him down the back stairs mid-stream.
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Jul 16, 2013 14:58
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How does your commute look? Is it possible to skip your lunch break and go home to let him out? It may be stretching it past an hour, but hopefully your boss would understand it's a temporary arrangement and would be helping you out.
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Jul 16, 2013 14:59
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MrFurious posted:Also, if he really peed 3 times in 20 minutes, then he's not actually relieving himself, he's marking, which means you need to stay out there with him longer until he's out of ammo. Take him for a fifteen minute walk when you get home or after you have fed him (and go out to the yard on a leash the other time). This gives him more time and a better opportunity to really empty himself. He might mark along the way a bit, but that's completely acceptable. Also get him a bigger enclosure than the crate for now.
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Jul 16, 2013 15:04
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strikehold posted:How does your commute look? Is it possible to skip your lunch break and go home to let him out? It may be stretching it past an hour, but hopefully your boss would understand it's a temporary arrangement and would be helping you out. It's about 25-30 minutes from home to work, depending on traffic and lights and such. Really not feasible for me. Riiseli posted:If a puppy is about to burst (which is to be expected after some 8hrs in a kennel) it can definitely have and generate enough pee to go thrice in 20 minutes without really marking. Especially if food and play are involved as was the case here. I always heard that a bigger crate was just asking for trouble with.. well, what I'm already going through. Pee pads left in his crate aren't an option- he'd shred them in minutes.
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Jul 16, 2013 15:05
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TShields posted:He's under 20 pounds and his poops are bigger than our 60 pound lab mix. If he is distracted by things and not doing his business due to the distractions it can help. And do carry him to grass for now when you first get home. TShields posted:I always heard that a bigger crate was just asking for trouble with.. well, what I'm already going through. Pee pads left in his crate aren't an option- he'd shred them in minutes. edit: My dogs would became hysterical and scream so, so loud, if they were left crated for so long they'd be forced to pee in the crate. And as I've mentioned Healy will jump over gates to get as far as possible from our bedroom, if she gets the runs while I'm gone. After she has done her business in the furthest corner possible, she'll jump back to get away from the mess. And this is inherent behavior, not something I've taught my dogs for sure and I've never crated any of them. Riiseli fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 15:13
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Ian Dunbar has suggestions on how to set up a kennel with a toilet for the pup on his website. I'm sure you could find it pretty easily with a bit of searching.
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Jul 16, 2013 15:14
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TShields posted:It's about 25-30 minutes from home to work, depending on traffic and lights and such. Really not feasible for me. I'm not trying to dog pile you here, honest - but my commute is 20-30 mins by train (depending on when it arrives/leaves) and this being my second week having our puppy I skip my lunch to go home and take him out. He doesn't get any play time or anything other than 5-10 minutes to do his thing but it's got to be done bro. I just let my team know my lunch is going to be running slightly longer for a little bit while I train my 12 week old pup. Good luck though bro, hopefully you get it sorted out.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:25
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Look, I can't keep coming back here to defend myself. I'm a lovely animal owner, apparently. I can't afford thousands a year to get a walker, I can't skip out on an hour of work every single day to walk him, and I can't make his bladder bigger. So I'm going to continue to love him and feed him and care for him the best way I can, because that's all I can do. We're done here. Move along.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:35
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TShields posted:Look, I can't keep coming back here to defend myself. I'm a lovely animal owner, apparently. I can't afford thousands a year to get a walker, I can't skip out on an hour of work every single day to walk him, and I can't make his bladder bigger. So I'm going to continue to love him and feed him and care for him the best way I can, because that's all I can do. We're done here. Move along. One last suggestion. Do you have any neighbors with children? When I was in high school, I was paid $10 a week to let the neighbor's dog out to pee every weekday. Can be kind of a gamble, but if you get a good kid then it can save you lots of money and would help the dog.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:41
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When Lola was younger, I used to leave her in a room with newspaper down for her to toilet on. She was very difficult to house train, perhaps because of this, but she would resort to screaming and making GBS threads in the crate. (And then stressing herself out even more because There Is poo poo In My Den.) It might be an option for you to stick your dog in a destruction-proofed room with newspaper down, TShields. A dog toileting in its den is bad physically and psychologically for the dog.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:45
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I just don't understand I guess? Why can't you eat lunch at home and let the dog out for five minutes? Or eat in the car/whatever kind of transport? Amy wasn't smart enough to be upset about making GBS threads in her room when she was a pup. She'd just go paint with it everywhere. That was fun.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:49
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It's not thousands a year though? It's probably for only a few months while your pup gets big enough to hold it. Might even only take a month. cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 20:51
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TShields posted:Look, I can't keep coming back here to defend myself. I'm a lovely animal owner, apparently. I can't afford thousands a year to get a walker, I can't skip out on an hour of work every single day to walk him, and I can't make his bladder bigger. So I'm going to continue to love him and feed him and care for him the best way I can, because that's all I can do. We're done here. Move along. Yes, that was the point of what people have been saying. Stop being defensive and understand we're trying to help/ inform.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:52
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cryingscarf posted:One last suggestion. Do you have any neighbors with children? When I was in high school, I was paid $10 a week to let the neighbor's dog out to pee every weekday. Can be kind of a gamble, but if you get a good kid then it can save you lots of money and would help the dog. I've never met my neighbors. We've lived in this house for 3 months, and nobody has even waved at us. It's a little unsettling since we're not anti-social people at all, it just seems like all the neighbors are. The other problem is that- and this is going to sound REALLY bad, like a lot worse than I mean it to sound- but the only children around are black, and our old dog absolutely flips her poo poo around black people. It's the damnedest thing.. They are already terrified of her because we were moving in, she jumped out of the car faster than she ever has and got away from us and ran into their yard and started barking at our neighbors on their front portch. I was too embarrassed to ever speak to them again. They have two kids, and the dog will charge the fence if they're playing in their back yard and scare the poo poo out of them, and if she goes out to pee and they're grilling out back, she'll just stand on our porch and bark with her hackles up until I bodily drag her inside.. Old white repair guy coming in to work on the A/C? Totally fine with him. Ironically, the dog is almost completely black herself. Go figure.
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Jul 16, 2013 20:53
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Nah, some dogs are "racist". It's not like you taught her to go nuts around black folks. Try to meet your neighbors! If they're all dicks, at least you tried!
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Jul 16, 2013 20:58
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Here's that Ian Dunbar guide that was mentioned earlier. http://www.siriuspup.com/pop_housetraining.html quote:Mistakes are a disaster since they set a bad precedent and create bad habits, which can be hard to break. Consequently, you must prevent mistakes at all cost. Whenever you are not at home, leave your dog in a long-term confinement area, such as a single room indoors with easy-to-clean floors (bathroom, kitchen, or utility room)—this will be your puppydog’s playroom. Good luck with your pup.
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Jul 16, 2013 21:01
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| # ? May 14, 2024 06:36 |
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Nah, some dogs are "racist". It's not like you taught her to go nuts around black folks. They can't even train the dog to pee/poo poo properly, I doubt it's that. TShields: I doubt your dog is actually racist just because it reacts poorly to black people. You probably should train it otherwise, and you definitely shouldn't allow it to affect how you interact with your neighbors. Just a note, you really should try to be less defensive or at least try to look for a solution in the sea of excuses. First you say "We've lived in this house for 3 months, and nobody has even waved at us. It's a little unsettling since we're not anti-social people at all, it just seems like all the neighbors are.", then you say "I was too embarrassed to ever speak to them again [after event that happened when you first moved in]."
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Jul 16, 2013 21:02
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