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docbeard posted:It occurs to me to wonder how one might apply this principle to, say, vampires or similar supernatural critters as opposed to aliens. For all their flaws, the White Court are an interesting faction (if one that I think Butcher overuses) specifically because there's a diversity of motivations to them beyond "sucking the life out of people" and "being evil". Contrast them to, say, the Red Court who are or were comparatively simple monsters; once you know someone's a Red Court Vampire you know pretty much everything about them. I can support varied and multi-leveled alien races with factions and minorities and subversives. Sounds great. But I think that you most definitely should not apply this principle to monsters. Vampires, werewolves, sprites, pixies, dryads, fairies, whatever... these mythical constructs were created by the human imagination for a reason, in that they always embody a subset of human traits and exclude others. I think that they're tools of the mind that are specifically created as flawed, incomplete mirrors of humanity, and they best serve their literary purpose when they are less than the sum of humanity. Vampires, for instance, represent ultimate greed, lust, and selfishness, with no remorse, guilt, or empathy. Werewolves are bestial fury. Fairies, going by older stories, are capricious prankster assholes. So unlike alien races in sci-fi, I think that fantasy monsters should always be monolithic stereotypes. If you DON'T make them monolithic stereotypes, then they are cursed with angst, where they want to drink your blood but also don't, for vampires. Or where they want to rip your head off but also want to sex you, like with werewolves. Down that road lies Twilight and other abominations of literature. I think that the angst and inner character conflict should always be firmly the realm of human characters. Because I think that is what separates humans from monsters, the inner conflict. Monsters are supposed to be guideposts, markers on the scale that humans may climb or descend. "He was as vicious as a werewolf" should be a recognizable reference point. "His selfishness matched that of a vampire" should be understandable. "The vampire never drank her blood because he loved her" should be a laughable idea that gets you thrown out of whatever place you were in when you said it. But obviously not enough people share my opinion because we're drowning in sexy vampires and sexy werewolves these days.
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Jul 13, 2013 17:35
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Avalerion posted:I actually enjoyed the lot of them and feel the series went from good to great going forward from the 3 book. I thought they were all really good, but I do like 3-5 best, the last is SO BIG that it feels almost like an overview for the most part, the scale is so large that everything seems smaller in a way and marginalized to me. The first one the characters are too young and the story is very small, very full of angsty teen poo poo, most of book 2 suffers from this too. But Cursor-Prince's Fury, those are pretty rad books, and the Battle for the bridge is just excellent. Echoing someone else's sentiment, I too would be down for some sort of tactical RPG based on Alera. Maybe some sort of RISK variant or Warhammer type deal.
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Jul 16, 2013 15:33
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Alright, time to check out that Dresden files series! 15 books out, 23 planned.  Nevermind..
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Jul 16, 2013 19:02
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Not Al-Qaeda posted:Alright, time to check out that Dresden files series! You're missing out. 
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Jul 16, 2013 19:06
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Not Al-Qaeda posted:Alright, time to check out that Dresden files series! You can literally read 4-5 of them a month. They're short and fast.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:09
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And it's not like you'll only enjoy the series when you catch up. It's a hella fun ride along the way, book by book.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:13
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Not Al-Qaeda posted:Alright, time to check out that Dresden files series! Do it and catch up and suffer with the rest of us!
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Jul 16, 2013 21:38
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I think one of the best parts about reading this series is this thread and seeing new readers experience the series.
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Jul 16, 2013 21:59
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why oh WHY posted:I think one of the best parts about reading this series is this thread and seeing new readers experience the series. This thread has gone much better with that than the Game of Thrones thread. It was a spoiler massacre to new readers
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Jul 17, 2013 02:47
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Yeah. I hope it stays that way.
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Jul 17, 2013 02:58
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Not Al-Qaeda posted:Alright, time to check out that Dresden files series! It's not like a Game of Thrones or a Wheel of Time series; Butcher's pretty good about getting a book out every year to year and a half. And for the most part the book plots are self-contained, and he reintroduces most facts you need to know in the beginning of every book. There's only a few overarching plotlines that spans books.
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Jul 17, 2013 03:01
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Not Al-Qaeda posted:Alright, time to check out that Dresden files series! "Here is a series I might enjoy. If I do like it, there's lots of it to read. gently caress that."  You know how if you don't like a book, you can stop reading it? Same for a series of books.
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Jul 17, 2013 03:01
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AlphaDog posted:"Here is a series I might enjoy. If I do like it, there's lots of it to read. gently caress that." I read it as not wanting to have to wait for the next book in the series to come out with so many left to go, which as someone who read Wheel of Time since the early 90's I can understand.
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Jul 17, 2013 03:03
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It might possibly be because it's a roughly £120 investment if you don't have any libraries around or access to/luck at finding used books, and a lot of people aren't doing too great on disposable income nowadays.
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Jul 17, 2013 03:07
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Not Al-Qaeda posted:Alright, time to check out that Dresden files series! You can churn through them really quickly
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Jul 17, 2013 04:38
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Xtanstic posted:You can churn through them really quickly You can, I started reading the series roughly 6 weeks ago and am on Cold Days. Ghost Story was pretty good. Annoyed me at first because I really like it when Dresden blows stuff up, however it gets back into the groove later on, and had a really good revelation when he remembers everything. Cold Days is pretty cool. Lots of stuff coming together, and even more plot points are being introduced. Just got to the part where Toot develops a crush 
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Jul 17, 2013 08:51
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Virigoth posted:This thread has gone much better with that than the Game of Thrones thread. It was a spoiler massacre to new readers A large part of that was the bitterness of a 10-11 year wait for a book published in two halves, neither of which were close to quality of the previous books. All while the author blogged incessantly about cons and football, and had an assistant screen any negative thoughts so he could live in an echo chamber where everyone was happy to wait a decade or more for the next novel while being told repeatedly he was almost done. It's no surprise we all went a bit WILD CARDS! after a while. It's not as bad as it used to be, though. I'm very, very glad Butcher doesn't have this problem.
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Jul 17, 2013 09:37
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Devorum posted:A large part of that was the bitterness of a 10-11 year wait for a book published in two halves, neither of which were close to quality of the previous books. All while the author blogged incessantly about cons and football, and had an assistant screen any negative thoughts so he could live in an echo chamber where everyone was happy to wait a decade or more for the next novel while being told repeatedly he was almost done. It's no surprise we all went a bit WILD CARDS! after a while. It's not as bad as it used to be, though. "Go Jets! I just ordered a pizza! Might work on the book later." Never forget.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:02
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Illuyankas posted:It might possibly be because it's a roughly £120 investment if you don't have any libraries around or access to/luck at finding used books, and a lot of people aren't doing too great on disposable income nowadays. You don't have to buy it all at once, though.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:14
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effervescible posted:You don't have to buy it all at once, though. I think you're thinking of a different book series. Once the hunger sets in there is no stopping until the final book is reached.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:20
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That leaves at least one delay between beginning to read and desperately adding the entire series to one's cart on Amazon, though! So not all at once. 
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Jul 17, 2013 19:44
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-Fish- posted:I think you're thinking of a different book series. Once the hunger sets in there is no stopping until the final book is reached. Dresden Files are the book equivalent of Just One More Level. 10:00 pm: I got work tomorrow, I should go to bed. I'll read a couple pages to help me sleep. 11:30 pm: Eh, one more chapter won't hurt. 12:00 am: That ended on a cliffhanger, must read the next chapter! 1:30 am: I'm almost done, just 25 more pages... 2:30 am: ... I'm wide awake and Dresden's dead and what the hell?! WHERE'S THE NEXT BOOK, SCREW WORK
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Jul 17, 2013 19:45
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daggerdragon posted:Dresden Files are the book equivalent of Just One More Level. Now imagine your last step, except you have to wait 14 months.
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Jul 17, 2013 20:13
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ConfusedUs posted:Now imagine your last step, except you have to wait 14 months. Oh, I'm quite aware. I remember very vividly waiting for two agonizing years for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. 
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Jul 17, 2013 20:23
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daggerdragon posted:Oh, I'm quite aware. I remember very vividly waiting for two agonizing years for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I could do 2 years in my sleep. GRRM broke me.
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Jul 18, 2013 03:08
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daggerdragon posted:Dresden Files are the book equivalent of Just One More Level. This except I finished it an hour into my shift at work, was incredibly hard to focus on work the rest of that day, and I had ConfusedUs's delay to deal with too, so worth it.
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Jul 18, 2013 03:10
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Daric posted:I could do 2 years in my sleep. GRRM broke me. You just have to look at some of the wild cards to see how badly he broke some people. It's actually rather sad, at least Robert Jordan released quality books after a long rear end wait, Gurm gives us crap. Thankfully we don't really have to worry about Jim doing that stuff to us. Edit: My sentence structure is terrible.
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Jul 18, 2013 03:18
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Robert Jordan went off the deep end and had his wife be his editor. That's why a majority of the middle books are huge meandering behemoth novels. Once he started getting sick, sadly enough, his books picked up the pace and a real editor was brought back. Brandon Sanderson also did a pretty remarkably job.
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Jul 18, 2013 03:39
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ConfusedUs posted:Now imagine your last step, except you have to wait 14 months. daggerdragon posted:Oh, I'm quite aware. I remember very vividly waiting for two agonizing years for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. Oh, you sweet summer children. why oh WHY posted:You just have to look at some of the wild cards to see how badly he broke some people. It's actually rather sad, at least Robert Jordan released quality books after a long rear end wait, Gurm gives us crap. Thankfully we don't really have to worry about Jim doing that stuff to us. Yeah, these days I just assume that GRRM will never finish the next book and try not to think about living with the huge cliffhanger. That, and fill my reading with prolific authors who can keep to a reasonable schedule. Speaking of which, doesn't the next Rivers of London book come out soon?
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Jul 18, 2013 08:44
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This is why I generally try and stick with Sanderson these days. He seems to be some kind of robotic book generation matrix. I have even heard that when he needs to take a break from writing, he relaxes by writing something else!
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Jul 18, 2013 09:01
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GreenNight posted:Robert Jordan went off the deep end and had his wife be his editor. That's why a majority of the middle books are huge meandering behemoth novels. Once he started getting sick, sadly enough, his books picked up the pace and a real editor was brought back. Brandon Sanderson also did a pretty remarkably job. To my knowledge, Harriet was always his editor since he was first published; that's how they met.
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Jul 18, 2013 09:21
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Devorum posted:Speaking of which, doesn't the next Rivers of London book come out soon? One week exactly.
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Jul 18, 2013 10:34
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Stroth posted:One week exactly. Or 6 months if you're American 
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Jul 18, 2013 11:11
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404GoonNotFound posted:Or 6 months if you're American If it comes out on kindle, you can buy it from Amazon.co.uk despite region restrictions - amazon makes it so literally effortless to change your region in seconds, and then change back, that I half-suspect they're encouraging it and deliberately looking the other way. To do it, go to 'manage your kindle', and on the left find 'country settings'. To the right of united states click 'Change', and type in a fake address - it's pretty easy to find postal codes and whatnot in the UK, and the rest you can just make up. Once you have done this once, every time you click 'change' from then on, at the top of the 'insert address' screen, there's 'existing addresses' and you can swap between any address you've put in previously, instantly - for me, right now, I can swap between my real US address, a fake UK address, and a fake australian address in pretty much seconds, buy a book on kindle that hasn't been released in the US yet, and then swap back when I'm done.
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Jul 18, 2013 11:49
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fordan posted:To my knowledge, Harriet was always his editor since he was first published; that's how they met. Yeah, this is accurate. She was also the editor on Ender's Game. Harriet also picked Sanderson to finish the series.
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Jul 18, 2013 12:16
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Devorum posted:Oh, you sweet summer children. It has been so long I forgot the cliffhanger to the last book. I'm going to have to check that when I get home from work. loving GRRM.
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Jul 18, 2013 13:11
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Daric posted:I could do 2 years in my sleep. GRRM broke me. You know nothing, Daric. 16 years and counting for Melanie Rawn to write The Captal's Tower. Edit: I still hold out hope. 
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Jul 18, 2013 13:37
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That's it, just finished Cold Days.. *boosh* The ending was pretty epic. Real good to see another side of Mab. She's not always a terrifying banshee. All caught up now. Am I part of the gang?
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Jul 18, 2013 16:00
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Dravs posted:All caught up now. Am I part of the gang? You don't want that. It just means that we'll start trying to hook you on other Urban Fantasy series. Read Rivers of London!
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Jul 18, 2013 16:27
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Stroth posted:You don't want that. It just means that we'll start trying to hook you on other Urban Fantasy series. Read Rivers of London! Felix Castor, dammit! Although it lacks a proper resolution. Not that you shouldn't also read Rivers of London. And the Rook. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 16:31
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