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poo poo I'm sorry, I completely forgot I was supposed to be writing a thing  you'll have it by the end of the week, I promise. I'm just gonna focus on herding with GSDs though because we've already got a thread full of their history and poo poo like that.E: Ok apologies in advanced 'cause everything I write about tending is going to be Germany-centric because it's literally the only country's herding history I'm familiar with. Triangulum fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 19:43
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Fraction posted:This thread is sorely lacking in stock dog pictures, FYI. Yarr! One Corgi/GSD mix comin' up!  (Her name is Jordan [Jordy/Jordito/Jordog/Jor], and she's 1-2 years old)    Her face fur is the softest substance on the planet.  (I need to get pictures of her outside, but she hasn't quite figured out this whole 'play' thing yet, so no derpin' from her.)
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Jun 24, 2013 20:23
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Here's one of Pistol's many stupid faces: I had deeply offended him about something, but I don't remember what.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:40
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Posting some photos I took last weekend after Cohen had run a few courses at an agility trial. She's adorable and fluffy sometimes.  She also really, really, really likes rolling in dead smelly things. She'd just run a course really well, so I let her. It may have been a worm.  Acceleration off the line! Tongue out for focus. 
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Jun 25, 2013 12:27
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Since we already have a GSD thread, this is just about GSDs and herding.  Tending a large flock in Germany Along the Furrow - Herding and the German Shepherd Dog The need for the German Shepherd Dog arose as a result of the medieval Saxon estate system and it’s almost complete lack of fencing. In medieval Germany, crop farmers were required to keep a number of fields fallow each season and these fields were the only places it was legal for sheep farmers to graze their flocks. Shepherd dogs in Saxony needed to be able to contain 1,000+ sheep in a small allotments without disturbing their graze and take them to and from the fields without the crops being damaged. This resulted in the tending herding style seen in the German Shepherd Dog and it is one of the only breeds that still practices tending today.   Heidschnucke, Lower Saxony GSDs essentially work sheep by acting as the flock policeman. They follow the shepherd as he leads the sheep to graze and make sure none stray from the road and while the sheep are at graze, the GSD wears (patrols) the flock by running along a narrow furrow to keep them confined. Unlike many sheepdogs GSDs do not use “the eye” because German sheep are loving assholes. While many Scottish collies were quite adept tenders and were popular among European shepherds, these dogs tended to fail miserably when imported to Germany. Max Von Stephanitz, founder of the GSD breed and the biggest dog racist of all time, described the failings of Scottish bred dogs when compared to the German Shepherd Dog: quote:
Gripping (biting) is fundamental to the German-style tending. GSDs target the back of the neck, flanks, and thighs of sheep -- areas that are heavily covered in wool as to not damage them but many excellent tenders had their teeth filed down to due to being too hard mouthed. The propensity towards gripping as well as the intelligence and hyper-awareness of borders developed via herding made the GSD a natural police and guard dog. Today most people think of GSDs as police, military, and sporting dogs but they were first and foremost sheepdogs, albeit strange ones.  A GSD gripping a sheep Just like with everything else involving GSDs, there are GSD-specific herding trials called the Herdengebrauchshund or HGH (Herding Working Dog Trial). The HGH is test of the day to day requirements of a typical German sheepdog and typically involves herding 1-200 sheep. During the HGH, the dog must drive the sheep from a pen along a narrow road, cross a bridge, contain them in a narrow graze, and contain in a wide graze without disturbing the sheep. After the graze, the dog must escort the sheep back along the road and re-pen. Unlike the similar AKC C Herding trial, during the HGH the dog must also demonstrate that it can control an unruly sheep via gripping. Unfortunately HGH trials are not very popular and most GSD-specific trials tend to focus on Schutzhund/IPO and SV shows. A HGH Trial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lybUvvvsrCw Vecna, my GSD being a smug butt:  Triangulum fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 15:48
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Very interesting stuff. What a great looking GSD as well. I have a Red Merle (prominent white) border collie that absolutely loves eyeing up my cat and following her around the house. I took her to a herding seminar and the instructor quipped that she was the first dog she had ever trained that was motivated by the handler saying "Where's the kitty?" Unfortunately she only does classes 2-6 times a year depending on her schedule, and she is an hour and a half out of town, or I'd be doing it a whole lot more. Ill post pictures of Vixen when I get home, because she is a gorgeous dog, but I am a bit biased.
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Jun 25, 2013 19:54
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Fraction's right, there aren't enough pictures here. This is Murphy at her first Thanksgiving with our family, in 2009. She was about four months old. With my dad:   For comparison, this is Thanksgiving 2012, all grown up:  Hiking at about 10 months old and not quite understanding the concept of the leash...   My sister and her husband recently adopted a new pooch from a local Aussie rescue. His name is Browning. We don't think he's a purebred Aussie - he's quite tall and lanky, and has some retriever-ish traits. My vote is Aussie/Golden, other guesses have been Aussie/Lab and even Aussie/Chessie.  Cookie?  Whatever he is, he's a doof. 
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Jun 25, 2013 20:26
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This is my BC Vixen. She enjoys hanging out with her buddies,  Climbing trees..  Sleeping..  She hates having her nails cut at work.  But most of all she loves flyball.  I really want to do more herding with her since she has the instincts for it, unfortunately opportunities are few and far between.
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Jun 26, 2013 15:51
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Thanks for the write-up, Tri! I'll link it in the OP.RazorBunny posted:Hiking at about 10 months old and not quite understanding the concept of the leash... oddeye posted:Climbing trees.. Pictured: the smuggest dog ever. I'm likely going to be doing herding stuff with Kalli when she's older. It looks like so much fun!
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Jun 26, 2013 22:08
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oddeye posted:This is my BC Vixen. She looks like a really lovely dog. It's great to see another goon who plays flyball. Your dog is absolutely gorgeous, and I kind of want to steal her. What's her breeding? I don't have many good flyball photos at all. This is the best I've got.  herders
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Jun 26, 2013 23:16
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a life less posted:She looks like a really lovely dog. It's great to see another goon who plays flyball. My sister wants to try and get into it, possibly with both dogs depending on Browning's drive. I was joking with her about trying to get a greyhound into it, since I may look into getting another sometime next year, and it turns out it isn't that much of a joke - there are apparently a fair number of them involved in the sport, just not at the really high levels of competition. We're probably going to ask for a smaller female hound when we're ready to adopt again, so I guess it's not that far outside the realm of possibility 
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Jun 26, 2013 23:30
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RazorBunny posted:My sister wants to try and get into it, possibly with both dogs depending on Browning's drive. I was joking with her about trying to get a greyhound into it, since I may look into getting another sometime next year, and it turns out it isn't that much of a joke - there are apparently a fair number of them involved in the sport, just not at the really high levels of competition. We're probably going to ask for a smaller female hound when we're ready to adopt again, so I guess it's not that far outside the realm of possibility Greyhounds are, in my experience, pretty rare simply because they're so big. The jump spacing doesn't work for their long strides. Whippets, however, are loving everywhere in flyball. I see a lot of them who wash out, and a lot who never really take to the sport, but when you get a drivey whippet who loves the game, it absolutely tears up the lanes. I loves them. Just wish they were all a bit more... boisterous and rough n tumble.
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Jun 27, 2013 00:16
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Fraction posted:Thanks for the write-up, Tri! I'll link it in the OP. I found a place in San Diego that does HGH herding!  Once Vecna's leg is finally better he's going to take his HIT and, if he passes, start herding once a week. I can't even tell you how excited I am, nothing would make me happier than to do ALL the GSD-specific sports with Vecna even if we are just playing at it. Honestly though I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he's not cut out for it. He's got the prey drive but I uh worry about him eating a sheep.
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Jun 27, 2013 00:52
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a life less posted:Greyhounds are, in my experience, pretty rare simply because they're so big. The jump spacing doesn't work for their long strides. Whippets, however, are loving everywhere in flyball. I see a lot of them who wash out, and a lot who never really take to the sport, but when you get a drivey whippet who loves the game, it absolutely tears up the lanes. I loves them. Just wish they were all a bit more... boisterous and rough n tumble. That's what I always assumed, but there are definitely some full-sized greyhounds competing - including some VERY tall boys if the pictures are any indication. There are several owners who say the only real issue greyhounds have is the turn at the box. And apparently if you have a low enough jump height, a lot of them just run over the jumps because they get a lot of air while running - not sure if that's kosher with the rules, though? I don't know that much about the sport other than it looks fun. Like I said, we want a smaller female, and a lot of the lower-end female greyhounds are about on par with a large male whippet in terms of size. It would of course depend on a) whether my sister gets her rear end in gear, since I don't want to to it by myself, and b) whether the dog was interested. But I thought it would be cool
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Jun 27, 2013 01:36
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Whippets are definitely starting to replace Border Collies as the go-to speed demons of flyball. Our fast team right now is running mid 15's with a team that consists of two border-whippets, a whippet and a jack russell mix height dog. I have mixed feelings about it because a lot of people are not good enough trainers to train a whippet to play flyball, so like someone earlier mentioned, a lot don't make it, and end up getting rehomed cause some flyball people are like that. Keep buying dogs till one works out for you. Ugh.a life less posted:She looks like a really lovely dog. It's great to see another goon who plays flyball. Your dog is absolutely gorgeous, and I kind of want to steal her. What's her breeding? I don't have papers for her or anything. Although her dad was a AKC registered black and white BC, and her mom a CBCA registered blue merle. They were both pretty good flyball dogs in their time, and that's why they bred them. That's a great picture of your dog playing, he looks happy. What kind of times does your dog get? Vixen is putting up 3.9 secs at her fastest right now. I've seen weirder dogs than greyhounds play flyball. An Ibizan and Pharaoh hound run in our region regularly. A Bulldog and a few Salukis. Probably the weirdest I have ever seen was coonhound mix? He bayed all the way to the box, it was hilarious. Sorry for the flyball derail.
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Jun 27, 2013 02:39
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Double post
Fraction fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 08:16
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Triangulum posted:No problem, sorry it took me so drat long. Are you doing any foundation work for herding with Kalli (does that exist?)? Urgh my phone ate my reply, let's try again. I spoke to a woman that does herding classes (and who we'd probably go to if I can't find anyone closer) and she said all she does at this point in a dog's life would be to let them see sheep. Obviously you don't want to try and work a dog too young; not only are they still growing, but if you misjudge and the puppy gets a lovely sheep, you risk ruining the pup's confidence completely around them. For foundation stuff I'll probably just work on recall and down around distractions, so that I'll be able to pull her off of sheep if she gets too excited. The only thing I'm unsure about is the methods the woman uses (just that I don't know what they are). I doubt they're positive, and Kalli is quite sensitive to anything negative. I'd hate for her to be corrected too harshly and just say gently caress it. I'm still looking to see if anyone does it closer. I live pretty much in sheep country, but it's all farmers who probably don't have the time to train random dogs.
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Jun 27, 2013 08:21
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Fraction posted:I'd hate for her to be corrected too harshly and just say gently caress it. On a related note Him and Sukka are going to go for a herding lesson next Wednesday. When I got my project, he didn't really use any eye toward other dogs, but he's grown in to it and since he's from working background I think I might better be able to search for a new home, if it looks like he has potential to grow into a proper sheepdog.
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Jun 27, 2013 10:20
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Riiseli posted:On a related note Him and Sukka are going to go for a herding lesson next Wednesday.
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Jun 27, 2013 11:30
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oddeye posted:Whippets are definitely starting to replace Border Collies as the go-to speed demons of flyball. Our fast team right now is running mid 15's with a team that consists of two border-whippets, a whippet and a jack russell mix height dog. I have mixed feelings about it because a lot of people are not good enough trainers to train a whippet to play flyball, so like someone earlier mentioned, a lot don't make it, and end up getting rehomed cause some flyball people are like that. Keep buying dogs till one works out for you. Ugh. We actually have a dog sport thread for just such flyball derails. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3370356 My dog gets around 4.3s at the moment. I know, slooow. Her box turn is a mess and we're still new to the sport and certainly don't attend practice enough. Agility is more my drug of choice since it's more accessible for us and tournaments don't require you attend your entire weekend 7am-7pm two days in a row. Excuses, I know. I think we could get Cohen down to 4.1 with more time and effort. She has to run start at the moment since she has issues passing onto dogs. Funny that you should mention flyball people rehoming dogs. I was kind of hoping it was just a local thing, but flyball people are some of the loving craziest people I know when it comes to dogs. A lot of them are approaching hoarder levels with the number of dogs they have, sometimes they have to choose between paying the water bill and feeding their animals, and everyone takes their dogs' athleticism much, much more seriously than their own. People just breed their dogs willy nilly, constantly looking for their next game dog. I feel like sometimes the dogs are stock more often than they're pets.
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Jun 27, 2013 12:31
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Here's Him during his first session with sheep: http://youtu.be/Hz_HGM6rKIs
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Jul 3, 2013 22:36
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Riiseli posted:Here's Him during his first session with sheep: Wow that is really promising. My girl was very similar but she didn't like to lie down, she just kept running circles around them. I found that when Vixen was doing it, she was focused but relaxed at the same time, like she had found her calling. Did you see that as well? I might just be crazy.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:21
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Riiseli posted:Here's Him during his first session with sheep: This is very cool. Are you hoping to home him as a potential working dog?
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Jul 7, 2013 22:02
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Fraction posted:This is very cool. Are you hoping to home him as a potential working dog?
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Jul 7, 2013 22:19
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Riiseli posted:Yes, I am. He has the pedigree for it and looks like he also has potential to become a proper sheepdog for a small farm at least. Could be a nice fit as a first sheepdog, while not necessarily such a nice fit as a first dog overall. edit: Here's TyTy trying to work the sheep while I try not to get tangled up with them. http://youtu.be/y7VJr7_JwvM Note to shelf and anybody really. Wear small pocketed trousers, if trying to herd horned sheep with a beginner dog. It was super annoying having to adjust every time a horn got stuck in my pocket... Riiseli fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jul 10, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2013 00:04
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Rixatrix posted:I.e. loads of pictures incoming on Thursday.  Here is Sukka waiting to gogogo:  And Sukka goinggoinggoing:  Also photodumping TyTy going into the water (she is a silly dog):   And Sukka with a straw stuck in the roof of his mouth while swimming. He decided it would be a good idea to try to drown the straw so it would go away. TyTy does not understand:  Image hosting is mine.
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Jul 10, 2013 11:41
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Oh man, cool herding pictures! TyTy swims like a crazy thing.Riiseli posted:TyTy was a "neat dog" and has certainly developed in three days spread out over a year. Since TyTy is a neat dog and should be in trialing form fairly easily she'll be going again next week. I have some interested in her possible puppies, which may very well not happen and won't happen any earlier than around Christmas 2014. It'd be great to have some herding results on her, so selling her pups to herding homes would be easier. Are you considering trialling with her or just herding lessons? Are trialling dogs really that impressive over there? Here a working BC basically works sheep day in and day out, not just for trials.
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Jul 16, 2013 22:45
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Fraction posted:Are you considering trialling with her or just herding lessons? Are trialling dogs really that impressive over there? Here a working BC basically works sheep day in and day out, not just for trials. I don't know what you mean by impressive as compared to working BCs. The best trialing dogs work daily at their home farms, but go to trials as well. They are quite impressive. I'm certainly not aiming anywhere close to that level. Just enough to convince farmers that a BC with a crazy color might actually produce suitable working dogs. I wouldn't necessarily mind leasing her for breeding to another breeder, if she has the goods to produce a litter of nice working pups, but I might naturally breed her myself as well.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:07
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I'm just saying if I was wanting a legit working BC for a farm, my first choice would definitely not be for a dog that *only* trials. I know supply of BCs isn't that great over there but here you regularly get merle dogs working sheep every day.  To me (and to many others) a working dog that does trials on the side is a working dog with a hobby. A pet dog that does trials is a hobby/sports dog.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:17
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Fraction posted:I'm just saying if I was wanting a legit working BC for a farm, my first choice would definitely not be for a dog that *only* trials. I know supply of BCs isn't that great over there but here you regularly get merle dogs working sheep every day. I'm quite certain that there are no red merle farm BCs here at all.
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Jul 16, 2013 23:34
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Aussie playdate! Only one of these dogs is a purebred Aussie, of course. Browning and Blue are both almost certainly mixes. Apparently Aussie mixes are becoming increasingly common in our area, to the point that the local breed rescue very rarely has purebred dogs.
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Jul 17, 2013 00:58
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RazorBunny posted:Aussie playdate! Blue is goddamn gorgeous. I find a lot of Aussie mixes look really nice (to me at least) - same with a lot of BC mixes. Riiseli posted:It's not so much the supply than the way the dogs are valued here. And this isn't to say they weren't over there. It's just a different view on it. And I'd say it depends wholly on what a dog does on the farm. This can vary quite a bit from farm to farm, so often a trialing pet dog will substantially more gifted than a working dog. And if said pet dog is from working lines its puppies can generate interest from farms. So a trialling dog may have more value than a working dog over there? Is that something to do with the nature of farms or the landscape there, perhaps? There definitely are merle workers here. A friend of mine has two different working bred BCs, from different litters in different areas, and they're both merle dogs. I expect that merle was introduced to working dogs as a way of selling more puppies, mind. There are even sable working dogs (  ).
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Jul 17, 2013 08:16
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Fraction posted:So a trialling dog may have more value than a working dog over there? Is that something to do with the nature of farms or the landscape there, perhaps? I dislike the merle gene quite a bit and I hate choosing dogs for color. Wouldn't have TyTy had I not decided to stick to my principle of 'it's not the color of the dog' as I always dreamed of a tricolor BC. Riiseli fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 09:09
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Riiseli posted:I dislike the merle gene quite a bit and I hate choosing dogs for color. Wouldn't have TyTy had I not decided to stick to my principle of 'it's not the color of the dog' as I always dreamed of a tricolor BC. Any particular reason?
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Jul 17, 2013 15:49
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Fraction posted:Blue is goddamn gorgeous. I find a lot of Aussie mixes look really nice (to me at least) - same with a lot of BC mixes. He's believed to be an Aussie/ACD mix, and yeah, he's really pretty. My sister was looking into adopting him, but he's only 6 months old and she was really not interested in dealing with a puppy right now. Her coworker ended up with him instead, so happy endings for everybody! Apparently he and Browning get along like a house on fire, but Murphy was being a prude and decided she wanted nothing to do with this rambunctious youngster. She might have thought Blue was there to stay and was mad that my sister keeps bringing home new dogs 
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Jul 17, 2013 15:55
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Triangulum posted:Any particular reason?
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Jul 17, 2013 16:11
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Pretty much what Rixatrix said. Basically because you can do this with it: http://www.border-wars.com/2011/03/lethal-semi-dominant-merle.html I tolerate the gene as dog's with a single copy are fine. And as I tolerate it I won't probably say no to merles in the future, because I want to remain color blind.
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Jul 17, 2013 16:25
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We just adopted a 2 year old heeler last week (and something most likely - she's only 31 lbs, but appearance wise she doesn't seem to be showing anything else. Maybe just an ultra runt) , as our old dog Crimson (god knows what. mutt of mutts) had to be put down in the spring due to advanced kidney failure and arthritis at the ripe old age of 14. (Vet could not offer anything but opiates for the arthritis pain due to her kidneys, and we didn't want to drug her into a stupor) She's a total sweetheart, and stays absolutely glued to you whenever possible. Very patient with our 15 month old daughter, and well behaved on the leash. She's still pretty timid most likely due to a busy month being moved from shelter, to foster, to plane, to another foster, to us with vet stops in between. Bristol the quasi heeler   
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Jul 17, 2013 16:32
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Bristol is pretty TyTy was quite good again and as she actually listens to me she might be ready for trials in next to no time. So we might well do a bit more herding. Her flanks don't really need work, so if I can get her to fetch the sheep well and we manage penning them she's pretty much all set for 1st class. The trainer seems sufficiently impressed and she doesn't dole out quite as much praise to all the dogs, so I assume she means what she says.
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Jul 18, 2013 13:43
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I wish I had somewhere to take Max to do herding stuff. I live next to a cattle ranch but I don't think they'd take kindly to a random dog chasing their cows around and the closest herding trainer I can find is three hours away 
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Jul 18, 2013 14:58
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