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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I get the impression that their approval process is a quick once over to make sure the project doesn't break any of the rules* and won't get them sued and their secondary process for vetting projects is 1) wait for a social media shitstorm and then 2) decide whether the project in question makes KS Inc look bad. If they get enough complaints of a certain nature they'll cancel a project otherwise they just don't care. One the other hand they might knock back approval for 50 tentacle rape games every week and the two we saw just happened to sneak through, they're notoriously uncommunicative in regards to how they run the site so we can only guess at stuff like this. I'm pretty sure the KS process is "Approve pretty much everything, because it might make us money." And "Only cancel things when somebody important runs a news story on it."
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Jul 16, 2013 17:58
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The General posted:I'm pretty sure the KS process is "Approve pretty much everything, because it might make us money." And "Only cancel things when somebody important runs a news story on it." I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that, either. Kickstarters #1 priority is getting paid, and I think it has become apparent enough that tons of low quality projects are not going to make people shy away from crowdfunding in the short term (obviously long term has yet to be determined) As long as their projects are not inherently dangerous to society, then I see no reason why they should not approve it. The only instance I can think of where Kickstarter let something actually dangerous get funded was that rape book, which they have admitted was a mistake and owned up to it, and I assume they will make sure nothing like that slips through the cracks again.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:06
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mks5000 posted:I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that, either. Kickstarters #1 priority is getting paid, and I think it has become apparent enough that tons of low quality projects are not going to make people shy away from crowdfunding in the short term (obviously long term has yet to be determined) It's only okay to do that right now is because there isn't really any competition. Should somebody release a less lovely KS, then they might be in trouble. As it is they don't really enforce the rules they have set out. It seems/is arbitrary, and I'm betting that eventually it will bite them in the rear end.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:13
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mks5000 posted:I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that, either. Kickstarters #1 priority is getting paid, and I think it has become apparent enough that tons of low quality projects are not going to make people shy away from crowdfunding in the short term (obviously long term has yet to be determined) They'll make sure nothing EXACTLY like that slips through the cracks, but they don't stick to their own terms of service even a little bit, all sorts of crap gets approved that really shouldn't be, mostly copyright infringement and poo poo like that. So it's pretty likely that something else will come along which is harmful in a slightly different way and it'll get through without any problems.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:13
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Fatkraken posted:They'll make sure nothing EXACTLY like that slips through the cracks, but they don't stick to their own terms of service even a little bit, all sorts of crap gets approved that really shouldn't be, mostly copyright infringement and poo poo like that. So it's pretty likely that something else will come along which is harmful in a slightly different way and it'll get through without any problems. That or they'll let it slip through approval so they'll look good when they shut it down not long after.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:14
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GBS's favorite slightly-insane robot inventor, Jamie Mantzel has a kickstarter up for DIY toy robot kits. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1089105581/the-greatest-toy-kit-in-the-universe-spider-tank-m/comments The constructed versions have been on sale for a while, and by all accounts are actually bloody excellent. This is the hackable kit version. Oh and for reference, the giant metalic spider robot he's been working on for a few years (that got rudely interupted by a storm killing his homemade "banana shed") last I checked he was about one youtube vid away from finally finishing it. Yeah, thats right, a 6ft high mechanized spider robot. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC7VOJGq__A duck monster has a new favorite as of 18:30 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 18:25
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Fatkraken posted:They'll make sure nothing EXACTLY like that slips through the cracks, but they don't stick to their own terms of service even a little bit, all sorts of crap gets approved that really shouldn't be, mostly copyright infringement and poo poo like that. So it's pretty likely that something else will come along which is harmful in a slightly different way and it'll get through without any problems. If Kickstarter is at risk for being fiscally liable for any of their projects, you can be sure as hell they are gonna block it. But really, what do they care if someone gets sued over a project they had crowdfunded?
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Jul 16, 2013 18:26
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duck monster posted:GBS's favorite slightly-insane robot inventor, Jamie Mantzel has a kickstarter up for DIY toy robot kits. That was one of the most bizarre attention grabbing threads I can remember, and extremely vividly. He has something about his personality that grabs a hold of your attention, really cool guy. Glad his spider dream is coming/has come? true.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:33
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Humor me here - why post this in the AWFUL Kickstarters thread?
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Jul 16, 2013 18:46
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StevenM posted:Humor me here - why post this in the AWFUL Kickstarters thread? This thread gets more traffic than the PYF Kickstarters thread.
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Jul 16, 2013 18:53
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I get the impression that their approval process is a quick once over to make sure the project doesn't break any of the rules* and won't get them sued and their secondary process for vetting projects is 1) wait for a social media shitstorm and then 2) decide whether the project in question makes KS Inc look bad. If they get enough complaints of a certain nature they'll cancel a project otherwise they just don't care. One the other hand they might knock back approval for 50 tentacle rape games every week and the two we saw just happened to sneak through, they're notoriously uncommunicative in regards to how they run the site so we can only guess at stuff like this. Why does everyone get upset about the "No 'fund my life'" rule being 'violated' by certain projects that are producing things? When someone says "I need X amount of money from this project so I can live" they're basically asking for a salary so this can be their job. Can someone explain their reasoning (with an example of a bad one?) to me? It's not something I really understand - it seems very reasonable to me to expect that if you want to be a professional "whatever" developer that you'd want developing that project to pay like a job.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:03
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I think at least intuitively it's basically that a project is meant to encourage investment in a product, not in the developers themselves, so while they can take some of that money to fund salaries and so on those aren't meant to be what is actually attracting the investment. I might be talking out of my rear end as far as the actual terms and conditions go, but that's how I understand it.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:09
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Sigma-X posted:Why does everyone get upset about the "No 'fund my life'" rule being 'violated' by certain projects that are producing things? When someone says "I need X amount of money from this project so I can live" they're basically asking for a salary so this can be their job. Kickstarter is for products with a tangible end point. In general this takes two forms, one is a product that people are essentially pre-ordering, the other is an event or other artistic endeavour that doesn't result in specific rewards for each backer but of which they can see evidence of completion in some way. Open ended projects just aren't what the site is about.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:16
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The General posted:It's only okay to do that right now is because there isn't really any competition. Should somebody release a less lovely KS, then they might be in trouble. As it is they don't really enforce the rules they have set out. It seems/is arbitrary, and I'm betting that eventually it will bite them in the rear end. I think after Penny Arcade and Susan, who both got plenty of coverage, we're officially past the point where KS needs to worry about failure through bad press.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:17
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Ripoff posted:I have no idea why these creeps don't just use the offbeatr website I was going to make a joke about how appropriate it is to use Offbeatr for this  then- CommissarMega posted:To be fair, Offbeatr is for explicitly, well- explicit content I can't decide if I want to know if the double entendre is intentional or not... I would who am I kidding, will have to check it out... (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 16, 2013 19:24
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Verdugo posted:It's funny how they suspended the tentacle kickstarter (both of them) quickly but let the PUA manual run its full course before recanting it. To be fair, the actual objectionable rape-y stuff was posted offsite on Reddit and only went mainstream in the final days of the Kickstarter. Sigma-X posted:Why does everyone get upset about the "No 'fund my life'" rule being 'violated' by certain projects that are producing things? When someone says "I need X amount of money from this project so I can live" they're basically asking for a salary so this can be their job. I'm with you. The "fund my life" rule is there to eliminate the outright begging (see: every other kickstarter knockoff, which is full of sob stories about rent needing to be paid and surgery not being covered). The General posted:It's only okay to do that right now is because there isn't really any competition. Should somebody release a less lovely KS, then they might be in trouble. As it is they don't really enforce the rules they have set out. It seems/is arbitrary, and I'm betting that eventually it will bite them in the rear end. "Kickstarter is cool, but I wish that it was harder to get onto and my project was more likely to be rejected!" said nobody, ever. Kickstarter's only competition is from less scrupulous sites like Indiegogo that feed off of KS' detritus. There's no reason for them to turn away projects based on their personal, subjective feelings of merit because they would just wind up going to another site.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:27
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JDM3 posted:I was going to make a joke about how appropriate it is to use Offbeatr for this It's exactly what it sounds like.
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Jul 16, 2013 19:27
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OatmealRaisin posted:It's exactly what it sounds like. To be fair, there are some projects there that do deserve to be supported. If I may quote myself: CommissarMega posted:I signed up onto Offbeatr just so I could support this project: the "Aids: Epidemic of Survival" Coffee Table Book". I'll let the project creator speak for himself: That project is still in the approval stage, while another two projects I listed in the post I quoted, a text-only game featuring just about every fetish known to man and what seems to be an erotic tower defense game cum (ahaha) visual novel have both been long since funded. I know goon rushes are generally discouraged, but surely we can try get THIS project off the ground? CommissarMega has a new favorite as of 21:58 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 21:54
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Fatkraken posted:Kickstarter is for products with a tangible end point. In general this takes two forms, one is a product that people are essentially pre-ordering, the other is an event or other artistic endeavour that doesn't result in specific rewards for each backer but of which they can see evidence of completion in some way. Open ended projects just aren't what the site is about. Can you give some examples of "fund my life" type failures? I agree that Susan sending her kid to camp was a "fund my life" type thing as the "product" was of negligible value, but I disagree with the Penny Arcade "remove ads from our site" kickstarter as being "fund my life" but rather "change our revenue stream from advertising to patronage." I still saw a lot of goon protest to that one, though. Would a "Life and Times of Samoa" travelogue be considered a fund my lifestyle project if it was basically a photo/interview coffee table book whose principal funding was for travel and accomodations to Samoa, for example? I'm not trying to be critical of anyone's views, either, or looking for a "defense" - I just want to understand the mindset because it isn't one I share. As someone who would someday like to kickstart something, and who has friends who kickstart things, I want to understand other consumer perspectives besides my own.
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Jul 16, 2013 22:12
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Sigma-X posted:Can you give some examples of "fund my life" type failures? I agree that Susan sending her kid to camp was a "fund my life" type thing as the "product" was of negligible value, but I disagree with the Penny Arcade "remove ads from our site" kickstarter as being "fund my life" but rather "change our revenue stream from advertising to patronage." I still saw a lot of goon protest to that one, though. Like someone else said, it's to prevent basically charity kickstarters with no outcome goal other than soliciting donations. "I can't make rent, give me $300" or "Need transplant surgery, trying to raise $100,000" or whatever. Fund my life projects like this tend NOT to get through the approval process for the most part, look at indygogo for how the site would be if they did. Travelogues do generally get through and the more transparent ones generally just don't get funded, I think that's fine, if people want to waste their money giving a bad photographer a holiday and get a book of bad photos for their trouble, more power to 'em I suppose. I think the PA kickstarter was bloody cheeky but I don't think kickstarter was wrong for letting it through, it complied with their terms and conditions even if it was some serious rules lawyering. The only ones that really bug me are the ones that break OTHER rules, generally decency, racism/sexism and copyright rules, which should be pretty easy to weed out but usually are allowed to go through until someone kicks up a fuss. I don't even think kickstarter was wrong for letting the game camp one go through initially, though I think it was horribly misguided on the part of the mother and they should have removed it when she started breaking rules about twitter spamming and so forth.
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Jul 16, 2013 22:23
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I didn't know there was even an approval process on Kickstarter. How in the hell do all these projects that rely on other people's copyrighted/trademarked work get through approval? There's zero chance of most of them succeeding, because as soon as they get the money and start selling their product, they'll get a cease and desist. The only one I can think of that worked was that Robocop statue.
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Jul 17, 2013 09:24
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PostNouveau posted:I didn't know there was even an approval process on Kickstarter. How in the hell do all these projects that rely on other people's copyrighted/trademarked work get through approval? There's zero chance of most of them succeeding, because as soon as they get the money and start selling their product, they'll get a cease and desist. The only one I can think of that worked was that Robocop statue. Largely because it's the responsibility of the copyright holder to protect their copyright. Kickstarter seems to take the position that it's not their place to pre-emptively guess whether a copyright holder is going to go 'oh wow, you're doing x, that's really cool, go for it' or 'oh, you're doing x, have a c&d'.
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Jul 17, 2013 09:58
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duck monster posted:GBS's favorite slightly-insane robot inventor, Jamie Mantzel has a kickstarter up for DIY toy robot kits. Aw sweet. I'm a bit tight for money right now but even so I've pledged for the cheap set. Jaimie seems like a p-cool guy, I was chatting with a couple of weeks ago about living on boats.
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Jul 17, 2013 10:58
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Rapdawg's Kickstarter project: I'm personally impressed at how this turned out, props to you. Fatkraken posted:I think the PA kickstarter was bloody cheeky but I don't think kickstarter was wrong for letting it through, it complied with their terms and conditions even if it was some serious rules lawyering. The only ones that really bug me are the ones that break OTHER rules, generally decency, racism/sexism and copyright rules, which should be pretty easy to weed out but usually are allowed to go through until someone kicks up a fuss. I don't even think kickstarter was wrong for letting the game camp one go through initially, though I think it was horribly misguided on the part of the mother and they should have removed it when she started breaking rules about twitter spamming and so forth. The initial PA may be controversial but the "fund my webcast" kickstarter was complete bullshit though. $5 target with the PA people gloating about how they just wanted to see how much money they could raise should have been taken down as a blatant attempt at trying to do flexible funding by proxy. The mother one caused a lot of controversy if I recall because people dug into her background and found that she and her husband had been trying to do something like this for a while in their past kickstarter like sites so its a lot less misguided than that PUA handbook. The issue with the "fund my life" kickstarters is that its insanely easy to get around it. Say I want someone to pay my rent for me. If I simply ask for the money, its a no-no but if I do something like "A picture a day: a look into the life of a concrete dweller" and say that I want them to fund me taking pictures of myself in my room, it suddenly because acceptable. There's a million of these kickstarters floating around where the text themselves go like, "I'm going to vacation in Haiwaii, if you pay me the equivalent of what I paid for the entire trip, I'll share some of my facebook pictures with you" kinda deal that skirt through.
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Jul 17, 2013 18:56
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A former Baywatch actress wants to find Noah's Ark and you, yes you! get to pay for it: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/831132184/the-secret-of-agr-dag Donna D'Errico posted:You may remember me as "Donna Marco" from the television show, Baywatch. What you may not know is that while I was running on the beach alongside David Hasselhoff, which to many would have been a dream job, I was actually dreaming about something completely different: searching for Noah’s Ark. Yes, the Noah’s Ark from the Bible.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:56
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So reading that woman's pitch, it seems to be a common thing for a certain type of Americans to clamber over that mountain in Turkey searching for Noah's Ark. You learn something new every day I guess. Surely the mountain is well-mapped and she'll be shown around by local guides, right? Hey, anyone want to finance my 6-week, uh, study trip to the Red Sea? I was thinking of floating around on a rubber mat looking for the authentic stone tablets Noah probably dropped somewhere around there.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:30
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miguelito posted:So reading that woman's pitch, it seems to be a common thing for a certain type of Americans to clamber over that mountain in Turkey searching for Noah's Ark. You learn something new every day I guess. Surely the mountain is well-mapped and she'll be shown around by local guides, right? Yeah. There's Biblical Archaeology which is just archaeology focused on sites mentioned in the Torah/Bible/Koran but doesn't take the religious texts to be 100% accurate and instead looks to find the origin of the stories told by the Abrahamic religious texts, and then there's "Biblical Archaeology" which is just fundies running around trusting really historically untrustworthy texts as gospel and when they don't find what they're looking for insist we just haven't looked hard enough. The former is actually kind of interesting, but this is firmly in the latter camp.
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Jul 17, 2013 23:14
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miguelito posted:So reading that woman's pitch, it seems to be a common thing for a certain type of Americans to clamber over that mountain in Turkey searching for Noah's Ark. You learn something new every day I guess. Surely the mountain is well-mapped and she'll be shown around by local guides, right? And it's perfectly safe right now, it's not like there's any wars close by that's stirring up the local ethnic revolutionary militias or anything.
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Jul 18, 2013 01:02
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SupSuper posted:Well it's a repeat offender. The real question is how these get approved in the first place. At PAX East 2013 I met the guy who approves everything in the game section, me and him where the only two people in the entire room that wore a dress shirt and tie. The other women on the panel wore nice professional dresses, and the remaining people up there were also dressed proffesional with the exception of the Cards Against Humanity creator who I got to talk to and dressed casually because it made sense for him. Me and him had a nice conversation, he gave me his email, and I emailed him before putting up my horrible Kickstarter asking for suggestions- we was only able to get back to me about a week into the Kickstarter due to work or personal stuff. I don't remember and its not something I would say if I did, but point is I got to talk to the guy. We had a nice talk which tied into my story about how we each wore ties- we are not people who can walk around pitching an idea in a t-shirt and jeans. We are not Ken Levin, we work hard and have to show that, the biggest lesson I learned from my Kickstarter- to show you've worked hard and that its made something good. Anyhow I told the original story to tell you that one to tell you this one: the guy who approves these things is not lazy or stupid. Stuff like this gets through because Kickstarter is very creator protective and tries not to make jump decisions. I also would not be surprised if he has people under him who review the submissions, some of which may let things slip through the cracks. Maybe this skirts the rules and they are hoping its ironic? No idea how it got by, all I know is the man responsible for approve video games (maybe card games too?) is quick, hard working, and bright. In my experience at least.
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Jul 18, 2013 04:58
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OrganizedInsanity posted:I'm personally impressed at how this turned out, props to you. The Kickstarter or how I've accepted my mistakes, handled it, and am working to improve? I'm going to guess the latter. EDIT: gently caress double post. Old Doggy Bastard has a new favorite as of 05:21 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 05:00
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Oh god. I've discovered an IndieGogo for a documentary about someone who deserves no attention. At least it doesn't seem to be defending him.
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Jul 18, 2013 12:55
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Rapdawg posted:The Kickstarter or how I've accepted my mistakes, handled it, and am working to improve? I'm going to guess the latter. Both, if I were into VN stuff I would probably shoot you a few $$, the art design looks a lot better now. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/469704863/the-sphinx-abides?ref=ending_soon I don't know if this qualifies. On one hand he's asking a reasonable amount and probably isn't really looking to do anything other than getting some t-shirts out but on the other hand, what the hell is that picture supposed to be?
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Jul 18, 2013 13:34
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OrganizedInsanity posted:Both, if I were into VN stuff I would probably shoot you a few $$, the art design looks a lot better now. BiggerJ posted:Oh god. I've discovered an IndieGogo for a documentary about someone who deserves no attention. At least it doesn't seem to be defending him. Oh boy that's a dangerous one since there's still some fascination with CWC esp after the latest facebook dump that showed him as even more insane/paranoid. Too bad I get the feeling all she's going to do is just go on cwcville and base her info from that. Where's the Ulillillia doc?
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Jul 18, 2013 13:36
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OrganizedInsanity posted:Too bad I get the feeling all she's going to do is just go on cwcville and base her info from that. Do you mean the CWCki (which I will not link to for reasons of sanity and good taste)?
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Jul 18, 2013 14:21
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Yeah the whole thing is really pretty damned sad. He's a mentally challenged guy and a bit of a douchebag and his life is basically going to be living with mom forever, but holy poo poo the people who spend every day checking his facebook and twitter and making him gently caress cakes on camera or whatever - I mean I at least understand being an autistic guy stuck living with your mom, but how the hell do you get as broken as the people who obsess over him?
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Jul 18, 2013 15:15
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pathetic little tramp posted:Yeah the whole thing is really pretty damned sad. He's a mentally challenged guy and a bit of a douchebag and his life is basically going to be living with mom forever, but holy poo poo the people who spend every day checking his facebook and twitter and making him gently caress cakes on camera or whatever - I mean I at least understand being an autistic guy stuck living with your mom, but how the hell do you get as broken as the people who obsess over him? I agree, by all accounts he's a pretty horrible person but the people bullying him (trolling is too mild a word) are massively worse because they don't have the excuse of being mentally ill/challenged, they just like spreading misery.
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Jul 18, 2013 15:29
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I've really gotta wonder why everyone on IndieGoGo goes for flexible funding. If you say you need X amount of money or else the thing isn't going to happen, then flexible funding just makes you look sketchy. The only people who will donate are those who have absolute faith in the project's success. There are campaigns where it makes sense. "We are funding this slowly from our own income and want to complete the thing faster." If you only get 1K of the 20K you asked for, that money is still actually going towards what people are donating for.
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Jul 18, 2013 17:43
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miguelito posted:So reading that woman's pitch, it seems to be a common thing for a certain type of Americans to clamber over that mountain in Turkey searching for Noah's Ark. You learn something new every day I guess. Surely the mountain is well-mapped and she'll be shown around by local guides, right? Makes me think, wouldn't they have found it already then?
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Jul 18, 2013 17:51
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Verdugo posted:Makes me think, wouldn't they have found it already then? I think there's a bunch of issues regarding it. Last I remember there was some satellite picture of what looks like a ship but Turkey refused to let people near it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searches_for_Noah's_Ark#Unsubstantiated_claims Fatkraken posted:I agree, by all accounts he's a pretty horrible person but the people bullying him (trolling is too mild a word) are massively worse because they don't have the excuse of being mentally ill/challenged, they just like spreading misery. Lets face it, at least 90% of the people who found CWC and CWCki have probably spent at least a week on it with a mixture of amusement and horror about how the internet has managed to document so much of a person's life, hell I'm pretty sure the NSA dossier on CWC isn't as detailed. Issue with Chris is that everything's a trolling attempt. Hell a stranger winning an internet competition over him lead to death threats over the "troll" by itself. You try to help him but unless its literally handing something to him, he won't do it. You essentially have to troll him to do anything. OrganizedInsanity has a new favorite as of 18:01 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 17:57
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OrganizedInsanity posted:Issue with Chris is that everything's a trolling attempt. Hell a stranger winning an internet competition over him lead to death threats over the "troll" by itself. You try to help him but unless its literally handing something to him, he won't do it. You essentially have to troll him to do anything. Why do anything? He should be getting help from people actually in his life, not strangers on the internet. Hell, he shouldn't BE on the internet at this point in terms of his mental health, because it's obviously not doing him any good.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:12
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