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Zaphod42 posted:That's pretty clever, although I really hate copy protection. If there's ever even one false-positive, then you're a complete rear end in a top hat, and its impossible to prove through testing that software is ever bug-free, so that's just not a risk worth taking. But there won't ever be a false positive on a legit cart because the storage size is determined by the hardware, not the software. It's a foolproof check.
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Jul 18, 2013 17:55
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al-azad posted:
This link is a few years old but there is definitely an argument to be made that digital releases affect used game prices http://www.racketboy.com/retro/how-digital-downloads-affect-values-of-collectable-games
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Jul 18, 2013 18:04
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Nintendo should have released Earthbound on the VC for $50 at the start just to see how many people would buy it at that price before they dropped it to a normal price.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:13
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al-azad posted:But there won't ever be a false positive on a legit cart because the storage size is determined by the hardware, not the software. It's a foolproof check. And, correct me if I am wrong, but it's virtually impossible for it to show up even on an emulator. I definitely don't recall ever getting the copy protection thing kicking in the many times I've played it emulated. Maybe I am wrong though? Harlock posted:I said in the other thread, I can't wait to see the edit/changes. No exaggeration but I cannot wait for the obsessive bit-by-bit breakdown of what was changed. Does TCRF do anything like that? I've never seen them break down Virtual Console games or anything?  Please someone in this thread, when the game is inevitably torn apart and inspected, please post the URL here. Thank you in advance. Not to armchair lawyer but I bet anything that the Little Rascals sample gets removed (unless Little Rascals is so old that it's public domain?).
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Jul 18, 2013 18:14
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Miyamotos RGB NES posted:No exaggeration but I cannot wait for the obsessive bit-by-bit breakdown of what was changed. Does TCRF do anything like that? I've never seen them break down Virtual Console games or anything? I would be absolutely floored if Starmen.net didn't have a meticulously researched breakdown of any/all changes. And I agree, despite not giving a poo poo about the Earthbound/Mother series, I'm extremely interested in knowing what had to be done in order to make the damned thing available again.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:16
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zenintrude posted:I would be absolutely floored if Starmen.net didn't have a meticulously researched breakdown of any/all changes. Absolutely nothing according to an NOA guy. He even said in response to Earthbound's announcement that he doesn't recall any legal issues. Maybe there are changes but it's strongly hinted that there aren't any. e: Kotaku article posted:So we asked Nintendo director of product marketing Bill Trinen: was the music an issue? wa27 posted:This link is a few years old but there is definitely an argument to be made that digital releases affect used game prices We're also talking about games that were only 3-4 years old when the digital versions came out. Gamestop would also have liquidation sales on last gen games. That's how I got Ikaruga and every .hack game for next to nothing. But I don't see the trend for older titles. Ogre Battle and Valkyrie Profile, just to use an example, certainly haven't gotten any cheaper. Miyamotos RGB NES posted:And, correct me if I am wrong, but it's virtually impossible for it to show up even on an emulator. I definitely don't recall ever getting the copy protection thing kicking in the many times I've played it emulated. Maybe I am wrong though? I've never had issue with it either. Maybe it doesn't work on older emulators but you probably have to intentionally hack the game to gently caress up the rom. al-azad fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 18:22
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al-azad posted:I've never had issue with it either. Maybe it doesn't work on older emulators but you probably have to intentionally hack the game to gently caress up the rom. If it checks the SRAM then modifying the Rom header should let you activate it in an emulator
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Jul 18, 2013 18:30
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al-azad posted:But there won't ever be a false positive on a legit cart because the storage size is determined by the hardware, not the software. It's a foolproof check. Nothing in software is ever foolproof. Its a fundamental law of CS. That's what I was just getting at; you can't verify with testing that your software works exactly as you intend it to. Maybe there's a bug. And that bug could cause a false-positive.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:31
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Zaphod42 posted:Nothing in software is ever foolproof. Its a fundamental law of CS. That's what I was just getting at; you can't verify with testing that your software works exactly as you intend it to. Maybe there's a bug. And that bug could cause a false-positive. But the check is the actual physical storage space of the cartridge which is why pirated carts have to be exact in their design. It's a hardware design like how no commercial burner can perfectly replicate the way disc-based games are written. It won't fail.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:35
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zenintrude posted:I would be absolutely floored if Starmen.net didn't have a meticulously researched breakdown of any/all changes. Some people are speculating that, like with TMNT, the price is higher because of music licensing fees. Again, not trying to armchair lawyer, I am just regurgitating what some others are speculating. I wonder if they got rid of the glitch where if you could die in the ending. 
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Jul 18, 2013 18:37
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al-azad posted:But the check is the actual physical storage space of the cartridge which is why pirated carts have to be exact in their design. It's a hardware design like how no commercial burner can perfectly replicate the way disc-based games are written. It won't fail. You're really just debating 2 different things. You're arguing the chances it'll break is miniscule (or zero) and he's arguing a development principal. The general principal is correct. With any software you write you have to assume it can and will break and then balance that against the value of the feature you're implementing and how badly it goes to hell when your code does break. It's very unlikely (might be zero but it's foolish to assume that as a designer/developer) that this mechanism will break but if it does the user experience is incredibly bad. Edit: I'm bad at sentences. DisposableHero fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 18:41
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Miyamotos RGB NES posted:I wonder if they got rid of the glitch where if you could die in the ending. I want to watch the video to see what this glitch is but I absolutely hate videos where some nasal nerd is speaking over it the entire time. All of those videos can go take a hike. I guess I'm just old.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:54
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al-azad posted:We're also talking about games that were only 3-4 years old when the digital versions came out. Gamestop would also have liquidation sales on last gen games. That's how I got Ikaruga and every .hack game for next to nothing. One I've seen is Toejam and Earl. I was looking for it starting in 2011 and kept up on the average ebay sale prices but it was always too expensive for me (like $20 for a cart and $30+ complete). It was available as cart and on VC only until last year when it was released on XBLA, PSN, and PC. The prices started to dip and got down to about half price, which is when I ended up buying one. Now they've climbed back up to about where they were before the digital releases.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:56
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how do virtual console games look on the wii u? i heard that the ones on the regular wii actually output at the original resolution, which is why they look so good.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:01
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SUPER HASSLER posted:I want to watch the video to see what this glitch is but I absolutely hate videos where some nasal nerd is speaking over it the entire time. All of those videos can go take a hike. I guess I'm just old. He kind of mumble-reads through the dialogue on the screen too which is just awful. Also, the entire video could have been about 45 seconds long.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:04
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SUPER HASSLER posted:I want to watch the video to see what this glitch is but I absolutely hate videos where some nasal nerd is speaking over it the entire time. All of those videos can go take a hike. I guess I'm just old. True but for glitch videos a narration is useful for explaining how it happens. RZA Encryption posted:how do virtual console games look on the wii u? i heard that the ones on the regular wii actually output at the original resolution, which is why they look so good. NES looks like blurry poo poo for some reason. SNES is magnificent for some reason.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:05
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SUPER HASSLER posted:I want to watch the video to see what this glitch is but I absolutely hate videos where some nasal nerd is speaking over it the entire time. All of those videos can go take a hike. I guess I'm just old. During the ending, all enemies are removed except one in Summers. If you die, the game fucks up.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:09
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Miyamotos RGB NES posted:
Is there a certain serial # to look for on Super Famicoms? I would prefer to have a Super Famicom because as I kid I always thought it looked way better than the SNES we got.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:10
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Risky posted:Is there a certain serial # to look for on Super Famicoms? I would prefer to have a Super Famicom because as I kid I always thought it looked way better than the SNES we got. Any serial number on an SFC that begins with S25 should be a 1CHIP.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:13
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Just watch, due to poor Wii-U sales the VC release of Earthbound won't rake in whatever Nintendo expects it to make. We'll be back in this entire cycle again, except Nintendo will say "see, we told you the game wasn't popular in the US."
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Jul 18, 2013 19:16
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the wizards beard posted:If it checks the SRAM then modifying the Rom header should let you activate it in an emulator I think the video I posted earlier gives you a Game Genie code that activates it too. I think just about every emulator is smart enough to only give you what you need SRAM size-wise. The modern flash carts are the same.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:16
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Xir posted:Just watch, due to poor Wii-U sales the VC release of Earthbound won't rake in whatever Nintendo expects it to make. We'll be back in this entire cycle again, except Nintendo will say "see, we told you the game wasn't popular in the US." My exact same prediction almost verbatim. Must be pretty obvious/likely 
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Jul 18, 2013 19:22
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Miyamotos RGB NES posted:NES looks like blurry poo poo for some reason. SNES is magnificent for some reason. It's all intentional. When Nintendo develops these emulators they try to get it as "accurate" as possible to the experience. Since technically NES never physically existed in RGB they opted to maintain the "softness" of the composite signal you would normally see but eliminated all the dot crawl. While I said "technically" this is because the NES PPU has a set of channels that are combined to physically make the composite signal - RGB does not exist unless you use a titler or arcade ppu and those were never really considered Nintendo official yeah. The actual really interesting things is how accurate Nintendo made these emulators https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhCxW7nI5N0 If you look at this the framerate of the SNES/SFC is 60.098814 FPS. The only emulators to get that accurate with the FPS are bsnes and the virtual console.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:34
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My Twin Famicom arrived! The Vellman connector I got wasn't working to power the system (might not have had it plugged in all the way), but I looked up the voltage on the adaptor that came with it and it matched, so I plugged that in and I'm greeted with a delightful FAMICOM PLEASE INSERT DISK screen on the disk side, so I managed not to blow up the system, hooray! Only problem now is that when using carts I'm just getting a gray screen  Thoughts? Do I need to clean the connectors inside? It's doing this on multiple carts. Is there a button somewhere I'm not pressing?
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Jul 18, 2013 20:24
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I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but you guys would probably know first hand, so why not ask? Is there any chance in hell of getting a NES Zapper to work on a modern LCD? How about really fancy scalers versus native upscale? Yeah I didn't think so 
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Jul 18, 2013 20:37
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quote:When the trigger on the Zapper is pressed, the game causes the entire screen to become black for one frame. Then, on the next frame, the target area is drawn in all white as the rest of the screen remains black. The Zapper detects this change from low light to bright light, as well as at which screen position the change was detected. This is how the game knows which target has been hit. Although the Zapper just detects light, it can only be used on CRT displays. It will not work on LCDs, plasma displays or other flat panel displays due to display lag. A known glitch about the zapper is you can get a perfect hit score every time in some poorly programmed games by simply pointing the gun right next to and into a light bulb.[7][8][9] It was also possible to tweak the brightness and contrast on some CRT televisions in such a manner that a hit was detected no matter where you aimed. After all target areas have been illuminated, the game returns to drawing graphics as usual. The whole process is almost imperceptible to the human eye, although one can notice a slight "flashing" of the image. Given that, I'm not sure how it would be possible to mod it for LCDs.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:45
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flyboi posted:It's all intentional. When Nintendo develops these emulators they try to get it as "accurate" as possible to the experience. Since technically NES never physically existed in RGB they opted to maintain the "softness" of the composite signal you would normally see but eliminated all the dot crawl. While I said "technically" this is because the NES PPU has a set of channels that are combined to physically make the composite signal - RGB does not exist unless you use a titler or arcade ppu and those were never really considered Nintendo official yeah. Well that explains it; I knew Nintendo rocked with their emulators on the original Wii. Not being sarcastic: do you know why NES games look kind of lovely on the 3DS? Is it the same deal? And why wasn't this filter you speak of used on the original Wii for NES games? Chumbawumba4ever97 fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 21:04
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RZA Encryption posted:Given that, I'm not sure how it would be possible to mod it for LCDs. A proper delay circuit and one of those 240 hz displays with an exceptionally good black level, and you might be able to put together something that can get close enough behavior for the Zapper to work.
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Jul 18, 2013 21:40
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^^^ Yeah that's what I'm thinking. 120Hz (3D) might be enough, even; modern display refresh rates are pretty good. You mentioned a delay, but the delay would have to be with the game/console, not the zapper, because the zapper is behind the console, not the other way around, right? If it was just the zapper, you could probably splice something between it and the console, but if its the game/console that's pretty tough.RZA Encryption posted:Given that, I'm not sure how it would be possible to mod it for LCDs. Uh, most of that doesn't say dick about LCDs. I already knew how they worked. If you read that, it actually says the zapper should work fine on an LCD; there's no magic involving the "photons" or "scan lines" as some people seem to think; as long as the LCD displayed the frames at the right times as the gun looked at them, everything would be fine. So the only problem is the lag in processing frames leading to the zapper being de-synched from what is currently displayed on screen. So hence my question for whether high-quality expensive scalers would fix the issue that just plugging it into an HDTV and letting that thing convert the signal (introducing delay) causes. 
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Jul 18, 2013 21:41
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Zaphod42 posted:Uh, most of that doesn't say dick about LCDs. I already knew how they worked. Well I have a zapper and I have a xrgb mini so let me try it... Edit: Samsung 120 hz LCD in game mode was a no go. When I did a frame comparison of Wii U vs TV the game pad was 1 frame ahead so I guess the lag is too much. flyboi fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 21:47
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flyboi posted:Well I have a zapper and I have a xrgb mini so let me try it... Thats what I was wondering, thanks!  drat, 1 frame isn't much. That explains it though, a single frame would throw off the zapper's "aim". It also explains why you can sometimes hit a duck if you're playing 2 duck mode (usually not the duck you intend) but can't hit anything in 1 duck mode.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:02
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This week is the NES' 30th anniversary. drat, makes me feel young. I mean, old? I've been helping out a friend with their new gaming site for class, and thought it'd be neat if I could get some short pieces by retro gaming enthusiasts such as yourselves about why the NES is still such a great thing to play even today, why it's still so awesome. Nicey nice birthday stuff, but maybe a bit more than just "woo NES birthday loves you console". Maybe just like 50-150 words-ish. Looking for like 5-10 bits. I don't know. If anyone is interested, PM me some writing! Or just reply I guess, if you don't have PMs.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:17
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PoshAlligator posted:This week is the NES' 30th anniversary. drat, makes me feel young. I mean, old? NES came out in 1985, it's the Famicom's 30th Anniversary
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Jul 18, 2013 23:14
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Got my Famicom working! Sort of. My Famicom carts are working no problem now (all 2 of them. Super Mario Bros. was loving FILTHY), and I have successfully gotten 1 NES cart to work in my 72-65 pin converter, but it's still being really finnicky with that piece. The only way I got it to work was to turn the cart around in the converter; not sure if that's the way it has to be or if I just managed to make the right connector. All in all I'm super thrilled with my purchase and can't wait to play around with it more. Time to get some FDS games and see if the disk drive works!
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Jul 18, 2013 23:25
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bpc908 posted:NES came out in 1985, it's the Famicom's 30th Anniversary Well tickle me orange. How do people feel about the Retron 5 for retro gaming? I'm not sure how hardware emulation stacks up against software emulation. Ideally I like the real thing, but something that means I don't have a whole bunch of consoles taking up space all the time would be nice. Plus, I don't have a NES.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:33
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PoshAlligator posted:This week is the NES' 30th anniversary. drat, makes me feel young. I mean, old? NES games were advanced enough that I didn't have to struggle to figure out what the characters were supposed to be (Atari 2600). That alone makes it so easy to pick up and play today. The lack of power in the console meant we got music that, still to this day, people clamor for. Everything was cartoony because it had to be. There were some "mature" games but they still ended up looking like cartoon drawings. The games are easier to not get lost in. I can't tell you how many times I play some sort of 3-d game (even Zelda 64) and get lost trying to find anything. A forced "overhead" view for RPGs meant I only have to remember "left right down and up". Platformers, in my opinion, never translated well into 3-d. 3-d gives me too many options. Contra is just a flat surface of colorful graphics where I'm not juggling with trying to figure out which button is "RT2" on my controller to change weapons. The lacking capabilities is a huge plus to me. Even the worst looking 2-d games, in my opinion, have aged better than mediocre looking 3-d games. I can't go back and play Super Mario 64 or Zelda 64. I've tried. I just can't. It sounds totally cheesy and dumb but it's why the NES is awesome to the max.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:38
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Miyamotos RGB NES posted:Even the worst looking 2-d games, in my opinion, have aged better than mediocre looking 3-d games. I can't go back and play Super Mario 64 or Zelda 64. I've tried. I just can't. I've always felt this way too and I've always attributed it to my imagination filling in the gaps and details. Modern games that attempt a highly detailed image will always feel off. We might all interpret a given NES sprite a different way but your personal interpretation probably feels right thanks to the gaps you fill in yourself.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:45
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Quidnose posted:Sort of. My Famicom carts are working no problem now (all 2 of them. Super Mario Bros. was loving FILTHY), and I have successfully gotten 1 NES cart to work in my 72-65 pin converter, but it's still being really finnicky with that piece. The only way I got it to work was to turn the cart around in the converter; not sure if that's the way it has to be or if I just managed to make the right connector. You mean the NES carts are backwards compared to Famicom carts? That's normal, the pinouts are pretty analogous despite the extra pins for the lockout and expansion, but the pinout is basically flipped (FC PRG side is NES CHR side and vice versa).
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Jul 18, 2013 23:54
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DisposableHero posted:I've always felt this way too and I've always attributed it to my imagination filling in the gaps and details. Modern games that attempt a highly detailed image will always feel off. We might all interpret a given NES sprite a different way but your personal interpretation probably feels right thanks to the gaps you fill in yourself. Yup. I know I'm not the only one that thought Gogo was just a guy/girl with really messed up teeth: 
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Jul 18, 2013 23:54
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flyboi posted:Trigger warning: this opens up a can of worms. I thought I was fine with S-Video and came across a cheap DC scart cable Haha, yeah. I can completely relate to this and I'm sure pretty much everyone in this thread that now owns an XRGB went through something similar. Here is how mine went:
 It's like "Pimp My Ride", but for nerds.
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