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just a butt posted:TV/Monitor sponsorships are slowly finding their way into the FGC; I think BenQ gave a bunch of their poo poo to leveluplive recently. Yeah, I remember for several years, there being coupon codes for those really nice ASUS monitors that the games were (are) played on. But that's kind of the thing, isn't it? How many people are REALLY going to buy another monitor/tv just because it has less lag than their giant, beautiful one? It's way harder to sell $150-$200 joysticks and TVs than it is a mousepad or a pair of $75 head phones. Aside from that, you don't have to replace the things for consoles pretty much ever unless you vomit all over your joystick or your kid headbutts the TV, so that's tougher too.
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Jul 18, 2013 17:08
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A true rip-off of LoL's pricing model might work for a fighter. A rotating group of free characters or you can pay to permanently unlock your favorites. You can also buy alt costumes and stages or more color combinations or something. Maybe all the characters are free in single player but then you have to pay to play them against other people? Here's athought: if a game actually had good netcode (lol) do you think people would go for a free-to-play game that made you pay for certain amounts of multiplayer time? Probably wouldn't work as long as microsoft/sony are making people pay a subscription fee for their online service.
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Jul 18, 2013 17:13
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It might work if you're fine with your game being a competitive joke. Which I guess you probably would be since you'll be swimming in money.
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Jul 18, 2013 17:16
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dangerdoom volvo posted:It might work if you're fine with your game being a competitive joke. Which I guess you probably would be since you'll be swimming in money. Yeah for real just imagine a comp fighting game where you get ruined by someone other than Ryu/Ken (they're gonna be the cheap/free characters because they're ~iconic~ obviously) and not only do you have the barrier of having to look up guides for him as a new player to figure out what he's even doing and how to deal with it, but if you want to play around with that character to see those weaknesses in action you can't because the moon hasn't spun around the earth enough times. As someone who played way too much League of Legends, I can tell you that the effect is felt there, though many players won't admit it. Another hypothetical (that has actually happened to me): someone buys the game today without really looking into news for it or whatever, so they don't know what a more informed player would know about the incoming patch. They remember/research/figure out that Fei is a strong character. They play with him on free week, get okay with him, and buy him and a skin because hey, it's my main/favorite character right? Boom, nerfs on Rekka and whatever else ends up happening to him, and suddenly the player, regardless of how they felt the whole time they were playing the character, now feels cheated. They've now "wasted" their time and real life money, especially if the patch is bad enough to make Fei not just weaker but completely push him out of being comparatively strong. Yes, it's completely petty, but to the player (and this isn't just me, I've seen tons of this on various forums) feels that their investment was essentially taken from them. Obviously this comes down to the pricing scheme, I don't think anyone's gonna have a problem with paying current or slightly more game cost for a full unlock and being able to pay less to start with Ryu/Ken/2 more characters. I guess this is probably a bit of an overreaction, but I've been bitten before. I played probably 4000 games of League between beta and release (mostly after release) and spent at least 40 bucks on the game and didn't have more than half of the characters unlocked by the time I stopped playing...
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Jul 18, 2013 18:00
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apple posted:Sure, he's managed to get AGE products sold with his apparent shtick of plugging in promo codes at inopportune times, but someone else could have easily done a much better job. Fanatiq used to be my favorite marvel player, but he hasn't taken the game seriously in forever, and as of late all I see from him is drama and gambling. ChrisG, while being the star player, does little outside of wearing too many headsets at once and has a personality that ranges from super chill to that of a constipated brick during tournaments. He's undeniably a talented player, but that by itself won't convince me to buy stuff from your sponsor. If anything, it's thanks to those two that I've never bought an AGE product. I think you're denying successful AGE has been in terms of just a product sponsorship for some reason. Credit also probably goes to how visible they are on the player, but I cannot think of another more successful product because of a player being sponsored. MCZ sponsors tons of players, but not many people wear Tritton headsets around to every tournament -- and their sticks were successful before they sponsored half the FGC, and they probably sell sticks more due to events they sponsor with promo codes + having booths at events. Razer sponsors some teams and players, and I don't think anyone in the FGC has ever purchased a Razer product (tbh I don't know what FGC-relevant products they have). Players have been sponsored by Gunnar, some shirt brands, some e-cig brands, etc and none of those have had the same results. At every goddamn tournament I go to, local or major, I see a minimum one dude with an obnoxious glowing controller or a goofy headset. I don't even know if they're particularly good products. I just know the time from Fanatiq using one and running his mouth about it to everyone in the goddamn world having a PDP product was far more effective than any other sponsorship I've seen in the FGC, even if it did piss people off. PDP/AGE really has never sponsored an event, don't really sell products at events themselves and don't make anything that is really unique. I think Fanatiq is at least partially responsible for that.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:04
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Yeah, I don't think I want fighting games to take on the LoL format. If they want to make them f2p style system, just have it so the player puts in "quarters" to play like the good old arcade days, and once they've spent $60 worth it stops charging them as they've bought the game. Fighting games will never be as popular as something like Call of Duty or Madden, and you know, that's fine. It's much harder for a new player to figure them out as they're not nearly as intuitive and require a lot of time spent in training mode and a lot of time getting your rear end kicked before you get better. Personally, I love that, but a lot of people (probably most people honestly) don't like that. I love fighting games and they're probably my 2nd favorite video game genre but they will never have the mainstream appeal of "point a gun at some guy and pull the trigger" and if you try too hard, you might ruin what I love about fighters in the first place. I agree that a $5000 grand prize for the biggest tournament is chump change and they deserve more, and I dislike it how LoL and DOTA2 players are recognized as athletes in the US while the FGC gets shafted and disrespected all the time, but c'est la vie.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:19
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, I don't think I want fighting games to take on the LoL format. If they want to make them f2p style system, just have it so the player puts in "quarters" to play like the good old arcade days, and once they've spent $60 worth it stops charging them as they've bought the game. Yeah, the "quarters" thing is what I was thinking about with the second part of my post. I wonder if it would work. Honestly I think the #1 thing fighting game makers have to do to keep the genre going strong is use some better loving netcode. The genre would see a relatively massive increase in sales if people who didn't live in one of the big competition centers could actually play online without it feeling like a totally different game. Case in point: if I want to play KoF XIII I have to either force my friends to play it or go all the way to France. I am slightly obsessed with KoF so I bought it anyway and forced my friends to play it, but how many new customers do you think they've lost because people aren't going to buy a game they can't play with anyone reliably?
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Jul 18, 2013 18:26
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, I don't think I want fighting games to take on the LoL format. If they want to make them f2p style system, just have it so the player puts in "quarters" to play like the good old arcade days, and once they've spent $60 worth it stops charging them as they've bought the game. To be fair the recognition was super recent, and I think it will lead the way for fighting game professionals/other e-sports "athletes" to get that recognition. AFAIK the recognition should help with visas and all that. As someone who enjoys e-sports in general it's at a spot in the US where any traction or good publicity is going to benefit everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the increased audience from EVO was because more people are used to Twitch and e-sports because of League.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:28
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troofs posted:Yeah, the "quarters" thing is what I was thinking about with the second part of my post. I wonder if it would work. Yeah, pretty much the big thing fighting games has going against it is the emphasis on local play. Fighting games have their roots in the arcade, so players are usually in big urban population centers. You don't find people playing fighting games out in the middle of nowhere North Dakota. Don't have any friends who play DOTA2 or SC2? Play it online. Even if they improve netcode though, playing these games online will always pale in comparison to playing someone face to face in a tournament or at an arcade, but it would help, probably. I also think that Capcom and over developers really need to push fighting games on PC, and push 'em hard. PC gamers have AE, SFxT and Skullgirls, pretty much. Release 'em all on steam.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:44
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Yeah,
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Jul 18, 2013 18:50
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, I don't think I want fighting games to take on the LoL format. If they want to make them f2p style system, just have it so the player puts in "quarters" to play like the good old arcade days, and once they've spent $60 worth it stops charging them as they've bought the game. Honestly it wouldn't be horrible if it went LoL-style F2P with a total cost of like 80-100 or you can buy the whole game for the normal $60, it's just hard to trust a company to do that.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:51
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, I don't think I want fighting games to take on the LoL format. If they want to make them f2p style system, just have it so the player puts in "quarters" to play like the good old arcade days, and once they've spent $60 worth it stops charging them as they've bought the game. Dota players haven't been recognized as athletes yet. To be honest fighting games deserve more. The community just has so much heart in it and its sad that capcom isn't throwing in more money to the scene. Obviously they did that tournament and cross assault but they already said they won't have the resources this time for the Capcom cup which sucks. It just seems like Capcom USA wants to make it happen, but Capcom Japan doesn't really.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:16
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Gammatron 64 posted:pretty much the big thing fighting games has going against it is the emphasis on local play. This but the opposite. Online should be a last resort. As should watching people play instead of playing yourself.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:21
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dangerdoom volvo posted:This but the opposite. Online should be a last resort. As should watching people play instead of playing yourself. Online is quite a lot more than a last resort for every successful competitive game out there.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:23
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Brett824 posted:I think you're denying successful AGE has been in terms of just a product sponsorship for some reason. Credit also probably goes to how visible they are on the player, but I cannot think of another more successful product because of a player being sponsored. MCZ sponsors tons of players, but not many people wear Tritton headsets around to every tournament -- and their sticks were successful before they sponsored half the FGC, and they probably sell sticks more due to events they sponsor with promo codes + having booths at events. Razer sponsors some teams and players, and I don't think anyone in the FGC has ever purchased a Razer product (tbh I don't know what FGC-relevant products they have). Players have been sponsored by Gunnar, some shirt brands, some e-cig brands, etc and none of those have had the same results. At every goddamn tournament I go to, local or major, I see a minimum one dude with an obnoxious glowing controller or a goofy headset. I don't even know if they're particularly good products. I just know the time from Fanatiq using one and running his mouth about it to everyone in the goddamn world having a PDP product was far more effective than any other sponsorship I've seen in the FGC, even if it did piss people off. PDP/AGE really has never sponsored an event, don't really sell products at events themselves and don't make anything that is really unique. I think Fanatiq is at least partially responsible for that. I'm simply stating that I've been dissuaded from buying AGE products because of how some of their players portrayed themselves. I don't feel that "wow, I really want to support these guys" vibe (and I'm not too big on all the glowy peripherals I guess). Plus, I dunno about calling the whole thing successful if their current manager leaves and Fanatiq is removed from the team..
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Jul 18, 2013 19:24
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Dragongem posted:To be fair the recognition was super recent, and I think it will lead the way for fighting game professionals/other e-sports "athletes" to get that recognition. AFAIK the recognition should help with visas and all that. Anecdotal of course but the only reason I caught any EVO at all was because a million lol and sc2 personalities were tweeting about it.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:25
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dangerdoom volvo posted:This but the opposite. Online should be a last resort. As should watching people play instead of playing yourself. He's talking about online play being good in terms of growing the scene. Obviously playing offline will always be better, but a big issue for a lot of people trying to get into fighting games is literally just finding people to play.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:30
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dangerdoom volvo posted:This but the opposite. Online should be a last resort. As should watching people play instead of playing yourself. You didn't read my whole post. Playing in person is ALWAYS better than playing online. I'm just saying games like LoL, DOTA2, Halo, CoD get bigger numbers because of online. In fact, I think local scenes for these things are almost unheard of if I'm not mistaken. I don't like RTS, MOBAs or FPS games though so I could just be talking outta my rear end though. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 19:39
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Gammatron 64 posted:You didn't read my whole post. Playing in person is ALWAYS better than playing online. Read it again. I totes didn't. My bad.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:49
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troofs posted:A true rip-off of LoL's pricing model might work for a fighter. A direct conversion of LoL's pricing model is really unlikely to work for fighting games. LoL's mechanics encourage you to have a broad selection of characters to pick from for a given match, and new champions are relatively easy to pick-up and play at a reasonably competent level. Fighting game characters on the other hand are much more difficult to master on a mechanical level, and that's all before you even get to acquiring matchup knowledge. This makes people more likely to stick with mains, and people with mains are less likely to buy every additional character as they come out. This system could even backfire on you where people are unwilling to risk purchasing any new characters because they're afraid they'll be incapable of learning them and wasting their money, so they instead stick with the simplest or move on to a more accessible game. Or it could limit the social spread of your game. You invite someone over to play the newest fighting game. They're intrigued, but then you reveal to them that you only have 4 characters unlocked for versus and none of them are the ones they're interested in, so instead you do something else. And even if none of that is crippling, LoL's pricing model is never going to be as lucrative for you because they can create new champions way faster than you can create new fighting game characters. I'm not going to claim that making a LoL champion is trivial, but for a while they were capable of putting out a new champion every two weeks. I can't imagine a fighting game managing anything close to that kind of turn time while still maintaining any kind of standard of quality. That's not to say that f2p fighting games won't be a thing, but they're not going to be a straight replication of the LoL model. The constraints of the genres are massively different, and your strategy would have to compensate for that.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:49
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Phantasmal posted:That's not to say that f2p fighting games won't be a thing, but they're not going to be a straight replication of the LoL model. The constraints of the genres are massively different, and your strategy would have to compensate for that. They could really easily do it dota-style and go whole hog on cosmetics and dlc characters if they do a PC release. I know that consoles are usually really weird about patches but hopefully that'll change with the next console cycle. Or we can just move everything to PC 
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Jul 18, 2013 19:59
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Death Bot posted:They could really easily do it dota-style and go whole hog on cosmetics and dlc characters if they do a PC release. I know that consoles are usually really weird about patches but hopefully that'll change with the next console cycle. Even on PC games have trouble copying the LoL or Valve model. A game has to actually be really good, and a popular genre, to get people to just spend money on it like that and most F2P games aren't and then they end up doing really scummy stuff to get what money they can. Microsoft is removing their fee to patch, at least. I think they realized that it was stunting development of online games. The consoles themselves shouldn't be a barrier to a free to play model
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Jul 18, 2013 20:08
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Honestly, they're probably better off doing frequent updates and expansion packs sort of like an MMO. I mean, they kind of already do that, but the crappy thing about them being on consoles is they have to get everything approved by Sony and Microsoft before they release any updates, and it's just a huge hassle for everybody. Although MK9 has proved that too many updates can be a detriment and games like USF4 and TTT2 are already bordering on having too many characters so I dunno.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:09
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troofs posted:Yeah, the "quarters" thing is what I was thinking about with the second part of my post. I wonder if it would work. While I agree, there's only so much they can do. Even with "perfect" netcode, everyone's internet connection is different. There's a dude I play Marvel online with who has an atrocious connection. When EVO was going on, he was watching a single stream and it would stutter and crap out on him regularly. Meanwhile I was watching 4 streams simultaneously in HD with no problems. No matter how good the netcode is for a fighting game, he and I will never be able to play it against each other without some amount of lag.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:13
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Yeah absolutely, but right now with most games you could have 2 people down the street from each other playing on fiber optic and it still sort of feels like you're playing in quicksand.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:15
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troofs posted:Yeah absolutely, but right now with most games you could have 2 people down the street from each other playing on fiber optic and it still sort of feels like you're playing in quicksand. It's getting better though. Skullgirls, 3soe, and TTT2 have really great netcode. It's mostly Capcom Japan and SNK/Atlus who are behind the times.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:18
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Jmcrofts posted:It's getting better though. Skullgirls, 3soe, and TTT2 have really great netcode. It's mostly Capcom Japan and SNK/Atlus who are behind the times. Having the group that did the two biggest games in the scene (and did Street Fighter, the most recognizable fighting game) be behind in terms of internet and not even have one of those two games on PC is a big deal though.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:25
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You can't just have the money from LoL and put it into FG prize pools without everything that comes with it. I'm OK with FGs being FGs, and other games being their own thing with their own competitive scene. Valve can pull out their checkbook and make a gargantuan tournament but it just isn't the same thing as what is going on at EVO. What are the biggest (in entrants) LAN tournaments for Dota2 or LoL?
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Jul 18, 2013 20:38
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40 OZ posted:What are the biggest (in entrants) LAN tournaments for Dota2 or LoL? There aren't really many open bracket tournaments, if any. The biggest tournaments in terms of prize money are capped, with qualifiers and/or invites.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:51
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40 OZ posted:You can't just have the money from LoL and put it into FG prize pools without everything that comes with it. Well... why not? I dunno, there's no real argument here, just a bunch of "can't"s all lined up with no reasoning. In terms of LAN things for both games, they usually do online entry for pools and then top 4/8/16 at a LAN, but a lot of that is that it's really standard for a game to last 40-60 minutes (and sometimes longer) and they're usually always best of three, with most finals being best of five. The International (the big yearly valve-hosted tournament) has 16 teams (5 each) competing in LAN, 14 of whom were invited and the last 2 slots were decided through tournaments of, again, 16 teams. The tournament's set to last about a week; three days of round robin pool stages and a weekend of brackets, double elim, best of 3, probably with bo5 finals and semis.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:52
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Jmcrofts posted:It's getting better though. Skullgirls, 3soe, and TTT2 have really great netcode. It's mostly Capcom Japan and SNK/Atlus who are behind the times. Arcsys netcode is "bad" but it masks it well.
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Jul 18, 2013 21:04
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Fighting games and LoL are apples and oranges. LoL's a game designed to be simple and easy at the player level and played with a team of people onto whom you can deflect blame when you lose. Almost all of the complexity and skill required are on the team coordination level. FGs are 1v1. All of the pressure's on the player and if they fail it's entirely their fault. It's just not as good of a format for growing a massive player base.brian posted:I literally have no idea what you think that will actually accomplish, do you think that sponsors will start flocking when they see that there's a bigger prizepool? It's already an incredibly high profile fighting game event in the games media, people watch it for the prestige and the hype and all the top players attend regardless. On second thought, though, having a huge parody check would be too gaudy and "esports". Keep it to the trophy and the medal and use some of the stream sub revenue (dunno why you brought up entrance fees) to fatten the high placers' envelopes or extend the payouts further down into the bracket.
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Jul 18, 2013 21:34
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Chin posted:Fighting games and LoL are apples and oranges. LoL's a game designed to be simple and easy at the player level and played with a team of people onto whom you can deflect blame when you lose. Almost all of the complexity and skill required are on the team coordination level. FGs are 1v1. All of the pressure's on the player and if they fail it's entirely their fault. It's just not as good of a format for growing a massive player base. Not sure why LoL was brought up, when StarCraft 2 is much better for comparisons sake. Similar to fighting games in that it's 1v1, not F2P and not easy to get into competitively, but has a large playerbase and prize pools (http://www.esportsearnings.com/games/1/starcraft_ii).
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Jul 18, 2013 21:53
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Death Bot posted:Well... why not? I dunno, there's no real argument here, just a bunch of "can't"s all lined up with no reasoning. I said "everything that comes with it." EVO and whatever LoL's thing is are both video game tournaments but that is about it. Nothing is "free" and that money has to come from somewhere. EVO has been around since the mid-90's, and the FG tournament scene is more or less organized by the players themselves. Valve and Riot take profits from their game and use that to purchase a tournament scene. I'm not saying one is superior to another. It certainly is a much better deal to be a professional LoL or Dota player than a professional FG player. If the FG scene was to have prize pools as big as LoL or Dota, someone would have to pay for it. I sure as hell don't want to have to pay thousands of dollars to have all the characters in a game. If stream donations paid for it, I would be cool with that, however I'm pretty sure that hasn't been how Riot has paid for their prize pools. We've been fine without having big paychecks so far. Players will compete and organize competition regardless of whether or not they can earn a living from it. Double Bill posted:Not sure why LoL was brought up, when StarCraft 2 is much better for comparisons sake. Similar to fighting games in that it's 1v1, not F2P and not easy to get into competitively, but has a large playerbase and prize pools (http://www.esportsearnings.com/games/1/starcraft_ii). Is there any kind of indication of what the playerbase for SC2 is? That is, people who play 1v1 in any kind of tournaments? It seems really hard to get numbers on this, but usually it seems like there are 100x more "fans" and far less competitors in SC2. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 21:59
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Waterbed posted:Arcsys netcode is "bad" but it masks it well. People call 'Arcsys netcode' quality but the real reason their online works well is because their two current-gen series are designed with very generous buffers/timing windows and moves with comparatively a lot of startup, which are the same reasons they feel sluggish and easy mode (at least in low-level play) compared to e.g. Guilty. 3D games tend to have 'solid netcode' for similar reasons, it is really easy to mask lag when your fastest standing 1 or whatever has 10 frames of startup.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:09
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40 OZ posted:Is there any kind of indication of what the playerbase for SC2 is? That is, people who play 1v1 in any kind of tournaments? It seems really hard to get numbers on this, but usually it seems like there are 100x more "fans" and far less competitors in SC2. By playerbase I mean people who play the game in any form, online included.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:18
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Chin posted:All I said is that it'd do MORE for the tournament's image and the scene than the scholarship nonsense. I didn't say it'd be some incredible boost. It's great that players fly out purely for the experience and the prestige of the tournament, but I don't see any downsides to having respectable prize pools for what is essentially a global championship instead of giving 20-30 grand (their pre-event estimate, I'm sure it's a bit higher considering the impressive stream numbers they ended up getting) to people already enrolled at an expensive school based on the absurd notion that it's at all likely they'll move on to become influential game designers with the FGC in mind. Honestly I forgot that it came from the stream revenue and for some reason thought it was from an added entrance fee because my brain had a fart or something. My point remains though, I don't get what benefit giving it to the players does to anyone but those few players who will play anyway. I don't think giving it to already enrolled students is necessarily the best way to spend it but it's a hell of a lot better than giving it to players given that the whole reason the paid HD option exists was for the purpose of charity and it's overall a better cause. Ignoring that people can be forced to drop out routinely due to financial issues after enrolling and given that it's presumably heavily deliberated on, I don't think game design courses are worthless if the idea is to give the scholarships to the ones who really want to do it as they're more likely to take the necessary extra steps in order to end up actually in design. Obviously it's no more likely to generate more or better fighting games than if it wasn't done at all, but it's still a scholarship in helping someone pursue a dream related to the tournament. I don't know why people think the competitors deserve more money than is in the pot in general though, if companies want to make big prize pools let them but you shouldn't gouge the community to pay the players, players are also able to secure sponsorships and so on if companies feel it's a valid investment for the exposure given. Honestly the whole argument reeks of the kind of imaginary 'big time' appeasement that I so loving hate about the SC2 world, it's creating a false impression of value that is meant to entice big sponsors, tournament organisers and broadcasters to give a poo poo even though all they're really going to care about is viewership and marketing metrics. Maybe you don't think it's gouging when it offers a service in the form of 720p+ or whatever, but EVO is ran as as pure a tournament as possible, Wizard and the Cannons have been very upfront about decision making and putting any money gained from it back into the event and the community, there's only ever been really minor concessions made to companies that want to use it as advertising platform and I believe the main reason for the paywall for HD was to tie chat into it so it didn't become a giant mess. I guess the crux of my point is that poo poo will get big if there's value in making it big and artificially making a big number for first in order to present it as otherwise won't really have any effect, heck it could even have a negative effect what with all the arguing over whether it's a remotely good idea to do in the first place that would inevitably happen. brian fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 22:24
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brian posted:...and I believe the main reason for the paywall for HD was to tie chat into it so it didn't become a giant mess. Case in point: 
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Jul 18, 2013 22:39
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40 OZ posted:I said "everything that comes with it." EVO and whatever LoL's thing is are both video game tournaments but that is about it. Nothing is "free" and that money has to come from somewhere. You're right that LoL's professional scene was entirely propped up by Riot dumping money onto everything, but DotA's entire professional involvement was Blizzard saying "yeah do whatever I guess". It was entirely player driven for quite a while, and Valve just hopped on and sped up an already-moving train. I dunno, I feel like there's no reason that fighting games couldn't be a bigger spectator sport. They're a lot clearer to watch and understand the basics of than the majority of other games that are popular. Yeah sure the backbones of the games are pretty crazy, but Dota and League are also terrible beasts to really understand the inner workings of. And yeah, the money has to come from somewhere, but there's definitely a few possible sources. Sponsors leap to mind, players streaming more, tournaments having small entry fees, putting some/all the subscriber fees back into the prize pot... I'm sure there's more ideas. Hell, start running some raffles or something  That said, I don't know why a community that features such notable players as Razor Madcatz Tokido and Video X Games Empire Dieminon and Afterglow Elite "Four Ears" Chris G is so scared of the concept of e-sports leaking in. 
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lazarenth posted:Case in point: Maybe this is why Spooky said, "gently caress poverty chat" during his GUTS Marvel commentary. I thought he was just making GBS threads on people who didn't subscribe, but perhaps he was just making GBS threads on lovely people.
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