|
fivegears4reverse posted:
Nintendo made a boatload of money on a system that is fondly remembered today. They got their rear end kicked. *Edit* In answer to the question, no I don't think WiiU will be Nintendo's Dreamcast because Sega had a bunch of big bombs in a row (32X, Saturn, Dreamcast), but I could see Nintendo migrating entirely to the portable market eventually. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 18, 2013 |
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 18:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:32 |
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:Gamecube launched with Luigi's Mansion and (I believe) Pikmin, and saw SSBM come out a month later. It's basically the opposite of the WiiU's launch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_GameCube_games Nintendo put out 4 games in the launch window. But look at that third party support. And the Gamecube was more of a failure than the Nintendo64. This is why they don't care about bleeding edge graphics anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:02
|
|
|
My point was Nintendo had games for the launch of the Gamecube, and super awesome games at that. What do they have now, 8 months in? Nintendo Land? It's fun, yeah, but...
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:04
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_GameCube_games Again, I don't think you can even call N64 a failure at all just because it didn't beat PSX at the county bake off. Nintendo made more money on the Nintendo 64 than Sony made on Playstation even though they pushed fewer console because all the best-selling titles were Nintendo games. The best selling game for Nintendo 64, Mario 64 with 11.62 million units, sold more copies than the best selling game for PSX, Gran Turismo with 10.85 million units. On top of that, Mario 64 was a first party game, so every cent of profit went directly to Nintendo's coffers. Why would they want to court third parties when they can push their own games like that? I mean god drat, the Nintendo 64 had 27 first and second party games that broke a million copies. If you even look at the last generation, the Wii had 33 1st and 2nd party games that broke the million seller mark, not counting wii sports. No other publisher in the world can push those kinds of numbers. They clearly have a strategy here, they just launched the WiiU before enough AAA first party titles were ready to go. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:07
|
|
|
Is Gran Turismo not made by SCEA? I just assumed if it were third party it would have showed up on xbox by now. Plus I bet each disc was orders of magnitude cheaper to produce than Mario 64 carts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:17
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:My point was Nintendo had games for the launch of the Gamecube, and super awesome games at that. What do they have now, 8 months in? Nintendo Land? It's fun, yeah, but... The point is, everyone crying for more games, from third party and themselves flies in the face of evidence that that's not what sells a Nintendo system. What sells it is the uniqueness of the hardware, as evidence of the failure of the GC to the rise of the WII which was a gamecube and a half in terms of graphical output. The Wii U failed in differentiating itself, because the half rear end ports from other companies were not new ways to play. Zack_Gochuck posted:Again, I don't think you can even call N64 a failure at all just because it didn't beat PSX at the county bake off. Nintendo made more money on the Nintendo 64 than Sony made on Playstation even though they pushed fewer console because all the best-selling titles were Nintendo games. I also like when other companies call for Nintendo to go third party, when Nintendo first party sels more than most companies best games. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:19
|
|
|
greatn posted:Is Gran Turismo not made by SCEA? I just assumed if it were third party it would have showed up on xbox by now. Plus I bet each disc was orders of magnitude cheaper to produce than Mario 64 carts. You're right, my mistake on that one, but the fact remains, Nintendo published more actual million sellers in that time frame than Sony did. You also have to keep in mind that Nintendo 64 games were more expensive at retail to offset the price of producing carts. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:19
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:Again, I don't think you can even call N64 a failure at all just because it didn't beat PSX at the county bake off. Nintendo made more money on the Nintendo 64 than Sony made on Playstation even though they pushed fewer console because all the best-selling titles were Nintendo games. Maybe you didn't intend to make this comparison, but it is implied so I will ask: you do know that Gran Turismo is a Sony first-party game, right? EDIT: Yep, beaten.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:22
|
|
|
Sony needs to bring back their best selling game in my heart: Jet Moto.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:25
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:The point is, everyone crying for more games, from third party and themselves flies in the face of evidence that that's not what sells a Nintendo system. What sells it is the uniqueness of the hardware, as evidence of the failure of the GC to the rise of the WII which was a gamecube and a half in terms of graphical output. I think we're talking past each other. My criticism of the WiiU not having games specifically has to do with first-party games. I would love to get one to supplement my PS3/4, but until they can finally get some great first-party games out the door the WiiU isn't worth even half the price they're asking. In contrast the N64 launched with Mario 64 which is a timeless treasure and the Gamecube launched with Luigi's Mansion which was more than enough to tide me over the two weeks it took for the astounding Pikmin and SSBM to come out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:26
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:I think we're talking past each other. My criticism of the WiiU not having games specifically has to do with first-party games. I would love to get one to supplement my PS3/4, but until they can finally get some great first-party games out the door the WiiU isn't worth even half the price they're asking. In contrast the N64 launched with Mario 64 which is a timeless treasure and the Gamecube launched with Luigi's Mansion which was more than enough to tide me over the two weeks it took for the astounding Pikmin and SSBM to come out. Sorry, I was never talking to you. I was calling the N64 a failure, because the person I was quoting called it one. I loving love the N64 and I wish AKI would make another wrasslin' game already. Also get a Wii U for Christmas, and you'll have enough first party games until at least Mario Kart. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:28
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:Again, I don't think you can even call N64 a failure at all just because it didn't beat PSX at the county bake off. Nintendo made more money on the Nintendo 64 than Sony made on Playstation even though they pushed fewer console because all the best-selling titles were Nintendo games. The Wii basically had three key attributes: 1.) Nintendo IPs 2.) Alternative interface method that's easily understood by the non-gaming masses 3.) Cheap The WiiU has the first one, and it arguably has the second too, since a lot of its games are still compatible with the Wiimote. However it's not particularly cheap compared with the other competing consoles. I think the Cheapness is probably a major factor that needs to be appreciated. I'm sure that most people would definitely go out and buy a Nintendo box that primarily paid Nintendo games if it was cheap enough that they wouldn't need to prioritize it over other, broader gaming experiences. That was the Wii for a lot of people. With the WiiU, suddenly the opportunity cost is a lot steeper because the machine is a good deal more expensive, especially compared with the PS4. Buyers need to make a value decision, and the overall result is not friendly towards Nintendo. Whatever the successor to the WiiU is, it needs to be Cheap, because Nintendo is never getting that third party support back, so they need to think about sustainability.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:29
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:I think we're talking past each other. My criticism of the WiiU not having games specifically has to do with first-party games. I would love to get one to supplement my PS3/4, but until they can finally get some great first-party games out the door the WiiU isn't worth even half the price they're asking. In contrast the N64 launched with Mario 64 which is a timeless treasure and the Gamecube launched with Luigi's Mansion which was more than enough to tide me over the two weeks it took for the astounding Pikmin and SSBM to come out. I think what has happened with WiiU is Nintendo has overestimated New Super Mario Bros. ability as a system seller. It's fun, but we've played 2D mario so many times it's just not a killer app anymore. I think Mario 3D World will fare better this holiday season. Once WiiU gets a price cut and proper Zelda, Mario Kart and Smash Bros. games business will pick up. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:33
|
|
|
Strange Matter posted:Whatever the successor to the WiiU is, it needs to be Cheap, because Nintendo is never getting that third party support back, so they need to think about sustainability. Hopefully they just put more money into a better gamepad with better signal strength and the ability to stream whatever from whatever to the gamepad. The second screen really is the future, and it's funny seeing companies roll their eyes at it, while offering similar things for the other consoles. If there is a price cut, it will be right before Mario Kart, since dropping the price before the actual Nintendo blockbusters, would devalue the games. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:33
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:I think what has happened with WiiU is Nintendo has overestimated New Super Mario Bros. ability as a system seller. It's fun, but we've played 2D mario so many times it's just not a killer app anymore. I think Mario 3D World will fare better. I agree. I don't think NSMB was ever a system seller, more like a game that you can expect to get an enormous attachment rate out of. Everyone who had a DS got NSMB and everyone who had a Wii got NSMB. I'm sure everyone who got a WiiU got NSMB, but nobody got the WiiU because of NSMB. I don't think many people are going to get a WiiU because of Pikmin either. They need a proper Mario game or a Zelda to court the early adopters. I'll probably buy a WiiU at the end of the year when Mario Kart, Wind Waker, and such are all out. Hoping for a holiday price drop too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:38
|
|
|
OatmealRaisin posted:I agree. I don't think NSMB was ever a system seller, more like a game that you can expect to get an enormous attachment rate out of. Everyone who had a DS got NSMB and everyone who had a Wii got NSMB. I'm sure everyone who got a WiiU got NSMB, but nobody got the WiiU because of NSMB. I don't think many people are going to get a WiiU because of Pikmin either. They need a proper Mario game or a Zelda to court the early adopters. And it's funny, because you can absolutely see how Nintendo could see those sales figures, and think that NSMB could push systems out the door. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:41
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:The point is, everyone crying for more games, from third party and themselves flies in the face of evidence that that's not what sells a Nintendo system. What sells it is the uniqueness of the hardware, as evidence of the failure of the GC to the rise of the WII which was a gamecube and a half in terms of graphical output. I honestly think you have it backwards: Software sells hardware. Your console can be the most unique butterfly ever made but if it lacks any compelling software, then it'll go nowhere. The best current example is the 3DS and Vita. The WiiU is failing for a multitude of reasons, the most obvious is lack of compelling and consistent software releases, with 3rd party ports already accessible via a different install base (360/PS3). There are other reasons too, like not being able to differentiate the difference between it and the Wii, but the Golden Rule for Everything Gaming is that software sells hardware, period.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:42
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:Hopefully they just put more money into a better gamepad with better signal strength and the ability to stream whatever from whatever to the gamepad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:42
|
|
|
Strange Matter posted:I will 100% buy a WiiU when the price drops, and it will probably be my only console but I am outlier and most definitely not a demographic that Nintendo should be chasing. Since I've been buying consoles for myself, Nintendo's offerings have never seemed like good value for the money. Playstation 2 doubled as a DVD player and PS3 as a blu-ray player, and I got waaay more use out of those features than I ever did out of playing actual games. Yeah the price tag is steeper for the other consoles but I feel like I'm getting more bang for my buck, particularly when it was PS3 vs Wii. Wii U looks neat but I still don't see what it offers that isn't offered better by a PS3/PS4, except price tag and some platformers. I kinda wish Nintendo would quit the console game just so I could play the latest Mario or Zelda on a console I actually want to own.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:48
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:I honestly think you have it backwards: Software sells hardware. Your console can be the most unique butterfly ever made but if it lacks any compelling software, then it'll go nowhere. The best current example is the 3DS and Vita. The WiiU is failing for a multitude of reasons, the most obvious is lack of compelling and consistent software releases, with 3rd party ports already accessible via a different install base (360/PS3). There are other reasons too, like not being able to differentiate the difference between it and the Wii, but the Golden Rule for Everything Gaming is that software sells hardware, period. Of course, which is what I meant by the half assed ports. Nintendo can bang the drum all they want, but if people show up and it's half assed poo poo, they won't care. I was pointing out the Gamecube's list of third party support because they had a ton of it, and it didn't matter. I'm one of the people who bought the Wii version of Madden because of the motion controls. Still the best version of madden. They didn't try to do anything to differentiate themselves from their 360/PS3 counter part and suffered for it. Nintendo as has been mentioned mistook NSMBU as a system seller. Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:I kinda wish Nintendo would quit the console game just so I could play the latest Mario or Zelda on a console I actually want to own. Please, no. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
greatn posted:The Gamecube had great third party support. A few great exclusives and a port of almost every multiplatform game. People talk about how it was a failure but it didn't really sell that much worse than the X box. The GameCube got 649 games total across all regions, and the system sold 21 million units before it was discontinued. The Xbox got 967 games across all regions, and the system sold 26 million units before it was discontinued. It's not really accurate to say the GameCube had great third party support, and it sold a good 20% less then the Xbox as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:50
|
|
|
bushisms.txt posted:Please no.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:52
|
|
|
Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:Why not? Is there something fantastic about Wii/U's hardware that really plays to Mario's strengths? In general competition is a good thing and can encourage the competition to actually step up their own game. Last generation stuck us with the Kinect/Move in response to the Wii's success but not everything has to be that awkward a clone. Nintendo tends to take things in different directions from Sony/Microsoft (who are increasingly becoming near-identical) and so that's a good thing if just for offering a wider range of competition.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:56
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:Nintendo made a boatload of money on a system that is fondly remembered today. They got their rear end kicked. I never disputed that they made money, but you can't dispute the fact that they'd been consistently selling fewer consoles from the NES onward. They lost a ton of marketshare to the Playstation brand during those years, that can't be disputed, it's fact, it's in the bloody sales numbers. They didn't even sell half of what the PS1 did, and basically only outsold the Saturn because Sega had spent almost a full decade making GBS threads in their own bed. I mean, it's great for Nintendo if Nintendo makes a lot of money, but if nobody else makes anywhere near that much money (and are more profitable/potentially more profitable on competing platforms, see The Last Generation for details) on their systems, they will be less inclined to support them. With the Wii U selling as badly as it is, it's no surprise that third parties are eyeing the whole thing with suspicion, that Rayman went multiplat. bushisms.txt posted:I was sad I didn't have more to play, but this didn't give me an anti-Nintendo attitude. I played my Dreamcast, instead. You have really got to stop assuming that criticism of Nintendo is somehow "anti-Nintendo". I have owned every single Nintendo console at some point in my life, and currently own a Wii U and a GameCube. I am about as far from being "anti-Nintendo" as it gets. I want the company to do better, I think their presence is a good thing for the industry as a whole. I also think they are loving things up in very obvious ways and are repeating the same mistakes that hurt the N64 and the GameCube.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:56
|
|
|
Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:Why not? Is there something fantastic about Wii/U's hardware that really plays to Mario's strengths? The co-op with the screen. Rayman Legends definitive version is the Wiiu with 5 player co-op. People act like online is all people want. A lot of parents don't want their kids on the internet, and being able to play and help your kids in a game, as a gaming parent could be more intriguing than just watching them play. But again, Nintendo needs to sell this and show it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QvNrSAG2V4&feature=share&list=PL2JiZAV5BmDUVp-PiIGnca7d1g4GdeC_7
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 19:58
|
|
|
Install Gentoo posted:The GameCube got 649 games total across all regions, and the system sold 21 million units before it was discontinued. You compare both to the PS2 though and the difference doesn't look that large.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:00
|
|
|
Ubisoft put out a market share chart, showing the Wii U with a staggering 3% of Ubisoft's sales since it was released -- for comparison, the 360, PS3, and PC are about even at 23/23/20. The Wii U's closest neighbor is the Vita.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
greatn posted:You compare both to the PS2 though and the difference doesn't look that large.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:02
|
|
|
Magossa posted:The Wonderful 101 is lookin really good. I hope people start to realize it's a new game and it doesn't go the Xenoblade road. Then again... Unless Nintendo goes full bore with adverts, its gonna fail miserably.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:03
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:In general competition is a good thing and can encourage the competition to actually step up their own game. Last generation stuck us with the Kinect/Move in response to the Wii's success but not everything has to be that awkward a clone. Nintendo tends to take things in different directions from Sony/Microsoft (who are increasingly becoming near-identical) and so that's a good thing if just for offering a wider range of competition. I think a more apt analogy is that the Wii U is Nintendo's Sega Saturn, and it'll take one more generation for Nintendo to either really make a case for itself beyond gimmicks and 30 year old franchises, or to finally crash and burn.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:04
|
|
|
Alteisen posted:Unless Nintendo goes full bore with adverts, its gonna fail miserably. Does anyone know why Nintendo operates like that?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:07
|
|
|
Strange Matter posted:This is absolutely correct, and given that Nintendo's policy is not to advertise until the game is almost out, that is most likely outcome. I don't think Nintendo knows why they operate like that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:07
|
|
|
Alteisen posted:Unless Nintendo goes full bore with adverts, its gonna fail miserably. It will be a goddamned crime if this really does happen. The demo I played made me a believer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:09
|
|
|
I'd guess that for whatever reason Nintendo has trouble getting western developers to publish anything decent on Nintendo consoles (based on the DS and Wii) and it seems like most Japanese game devs focus more on handhelds now, so for a Nintendo console you're left mainly with Nintendo games and shovelware. And even if the shovelware sold well on the Wii the developers have probably moved to smartphones at this point. Like the 3DS has a ton of great games now but the majority of them are from Japan with Nintendo pushing developers to localize more; most of the decent western games on the system are indie e-shop things. I could be completely wrong and there are actually a ton of cool Wii U games in Japan that aren't being localized in which case Nintendo really screwed up. I don't know if the hardware is also an issue, there have been at least a few ports (some canceled) of AAA console/PC games and the Project CARS people are apparently developing simultaneously for the Wii U along with the PC and next-gen consoles so it can't be that restrictive. Fortuitous Bumble fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jul 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:12
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:I never disputed that they made money, but you can't dispute the fact that they'd been consistently selling fewer consoles from the NES onward. They lost a ton of marketshare to the Playstation brand during those years, that can't be disputed, it's fact, it's in the bloody sales numbers. They didn't even sell half of what the PS1 did, and basically only outsold the Saturn because Sega had spent almost a full decade making GBS threads in their own bed. That's only if you don't count handheld systems, which like, why wouldn't you? They are clearly Nintendo's bread and butter. Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DS, and Wii have all pushed more units than the NES.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:That's only if you don't count handheld systems, which like, why wouldn't you? They are clearly Nintendo's bread and butter. Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DS, and Wii have all pushed more units than the NES. That their handhelds have almost always been wildly successful doesn't change the fact that they LOST MARKETSHARE IN THE CONSOLE MARKET. The N64 years badly hurt people's perception of Nintendo's home consoles. This isn't so hard to understand.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:It will be a goddamned crime if this really does happen. The demo I played made me a believer. It would be, I hate Platinum anything doing badly but the deck is stacked pretty fiercely against it. It needs shitloads of adverts everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:32
|
|
|
Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:Sure, but for two generations, Nintendo's greatest selling point has been its platformers. I don't know anyone who really gave a drat about the motion control features once the novelty wears off. Considering that both Sony and Microsoft are continuing to push their own respective motion controls (Microsoft more than Sony) and both have introduces a tablet-style gameplay mechanic, they appear to at least not agree that the gimmicks are without worth. The Wii didn't sell on its platformers. It sold on the weird motion control gimmicks. Just Dance or Wii Sports or whatever sold gangbusters. It was their inability to translate that audience over to other games that eventually took down the Wii.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:35
|
|
|
So does anyone really see smartphones threatening the handheld video game market? It seems like phone touchscreens have such long response times that genres that games that require more action from the player just aren't feasible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:32 |
|
|
It's a topic on just about every gaming blog and I think the short answer is no, long answer no because Nintendo's 3DS remained really strong once they cut the price down and well...there isn't much else in the market anyway. I own a Vita myself and I don't think smart phones are to blame for its poor sales.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2013 20:57
|
|
