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Pinterest Mom posted:Counterpoint: the Australian Labor Party, which has spent the last three years fighting a protacted leadership battle instead of, you know, governing. I'd really rather not my party fall into a leadership crisis every eight months. They actually did govern pretty well, passing more legislation than I think any other government in recent memory, despite the fact that they had a minority government with the Greens and independents for the first time ever in Australian history. The Labor Party are poo poo, but for other reasons. That said, I actually do prefer our system of electing leaders. At least our way is somewhat representative of the people's wishes, rather than political game playing between members of parliament.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:12
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And, we did open the leadership process to ordinary Canadians, and got 100,000 people, most of whom had no political connection or interest before to vote in Justin. That was a pretty big gamble that has paid off. Most of the people who voted have donated or volunteered afterwards, which is always good for us.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:14
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HookShot posted:That said, I actually do prefer our system of electing leaders. At least our way is somewhat representative of the people's wishes, rather than political game playing between members of parliament. Political game playing between partisans/party members is only more representative of "the people's wishes" than political game-playing among elected MPs if you have a very odd definition of "the people". Basically I'm in favour of anything that empowers MPs vis-a-vis the party leader and party apparatus, because if the PM isn't actually a first-among-equals then, as we are observing, the entire system breaks down.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:19
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Dallan Invictus posted:Political game playing between partisans/party members is only more representative of "the people's wishes" than political game-playing among elected MPs if you have a very odd definition of "the people". If elected MPs are the ones choosing the leaders, people such as myself, who live in a riding where the NDP don't have a chance of winning, have absolutely zero chance of ever having the least amount of say as to who's the leader of their party. Even those who live in NDP ridings would need to make that call before choosing who to nominate for elections. (edited stupid typo)
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Jul 19, 2013 20:28
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Maybe something where a majority of caucus can turf the leader but membership appoints the replacement, but I really cannot abide the australian system. It allowed a sociopath to spend three years sabotaging his party's electoral prospects in order to position himself as an alternative leadership candidate, and I typically prefer team players.bunnyofdoom posted:And, we did open the leadership process to ordinary Canadians, and got 100,000 people, most of whom had no political connection or interest before to vote in Justin. That was a pretty big gamble that has paid off. Most of the people who voted have donated or volunteered afterwards, which is always good for us. Oh you!
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Jul 19, 2013 20:29
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Pinterest Mom posted:Maybe something where a majority of caucus can turf the leader but membership appoints the replacement, but I really cannot abide the australian system. It allowed a sociopath to spend three years sabotaging his party's electoral prospects in order to position himself as an alternative leadership candidate, and I typically prefer team players. I could go for something like this, I just think that the very fact that "anonymous Liberal insider" is a meme in this thread suggests that the Australian system does not uniquely enable sociopaths within political parties to undermine their teams for perceived personal gain. At the end of the day, accountability to the people in our political system is meant to flow through MPs, and political parties are a convenient abstraction around that authority. I concede that I'm looking at this mainly through the lens of a governing party (and the concerns I expressed above are irrelevant to parties in opposition), but the current situation where MPs dance to the tune of party leadership or they lose their nominations regardless of what their riding associations say is frankly intolerable.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:37
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Jul 19, 2013 20:41
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So an Alberta MLA (formerly PC, now unsurprisingly an independent) from the northern riding of Fort Mac-Wood Buffalo has been charged with solicitation of prostitution in Minnesota after being arrested in a sting operation on Monday. I guess that's one way to unwind on holidays, Mike.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:47
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BCNDP posted:Fine-able Offense, Don't worry guys, the BC-NDP asked an articling law student in Terrace to fix the party, it's all gonna be fine. 
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Jul 19, 2013 22:09
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Fine-able Offense posted:Don't worry guys, the BC-NDP asked an articling law student in Terrace to fix the party, it's all gonna be fine. This is super unfair. The BCNDP is in desperate need of ridding itself of the old guard and handing the reins to a new generation. The presence of a young person on the panel is a positive sign, not something to be mocked.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:16
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The BCNDP dashed the hopes of every progressive leaning person in BC as far as I can tell. Every political party in BC sucks.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:18
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Pinterest Mom posted:This is super unfair. This isn't loving Naheed Nenshi we're talking about, at least give me a young person who knows something about politics. I can't even figure out if she's politically active or has ever done anything of consequence beyond studying law and living in Terrace. I mean I just spent ten minutes Googling her (which isn't hard since all her personal social media stuff is unlocked), and still know nothing at all about why she's qualified for this job.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:21
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Fine-able Offense posted:Don't worry guys, the BC-NDP asked an articling law student in Terrace to fix the party, it's all gonna be fine. I'm more concerned with having Jinny Sims on there. You don't get more old-guard than that.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:30
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Arabidopsis posted:I'm more concerned with having Jinny Sims on there. You don't get more old-guard than that. I mean the whole list is pretty old school. It's... not good. gently caress COPE, they're a terrible union.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:34
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I wonder if Pam Sihota is related to Moe, the party president. Who probably ought to share a lot of the blame. So you've got Pam, Jinny Sims, and two reps from unions that make up the NDPs largest donors. All kinds of accountability gonna happen here, I'm sure.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:35
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Man I can find next to nothing about this Pam girl, how the hell does she get named to this panel?
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Jul 19, 2013 22:36
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mr. unhsib posted:Man I can find next to nothing about this Pam girl, how the hell does she get named to this panel? Assuming she's not Moe's niece or some poo poo, they grabbed the first sub-30 warm body they could find.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:36
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mr. unhsib posted:Man I can find next to nothing about this Pam girl, how the hell does she get named to this panel? She enjoys dancing and James Gandolfini and reads thinkprogress. She checks out guys, it's cool.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:46
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Fine-able Offense posted:Assuming she's not Moe's niece or some poo poo, they grabbed the first sub-30 warm body they could find. She's not related to Moe. I have mutual friends with her, so I can tell she's active in the BCNDP in some capacity. I don't think it's a stretch to think that a young, bright, promising activist could leave little paper trail. It's certainly possible that the executive just cynically chose someone who could check off as many boxes as possible ([X] Young [X] Female [X] Minority), but I don't think she's an obviously bad choice until we know more.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:50
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Don't write off people just because they have no paper trail
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Jul 19, 2013 22:54
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Yeah fair enough, put her on there. Weird there's no mention of her on the Young BC NDP's webpage though.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:07
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Mr. Wynand posted:She enjoys dancing and James Gandolfini and reads thinkprogress. What the gently caress is this? How dare a LOWLY STUDENT help determine the reason that LOWLY STUDENTS weren't engaged by the party's message!
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Jul 20, 2013 00:39
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I think someone not being involved with university politics or within a party is almost more trustworthy , look at what the "paper trail" churns out , Giambrone and Paikin.
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Jul 20, 2013 00:51
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So, I don't think anyone posted the Canadian Taxpayers Federation protest that happened yesterday across the river from Parliament Hill. I Give You The Duffy Blimp.   From the Huffington Post: "HuffPo posted:Spokesman Gregory Thomas was clad as a carnival barker — complete with cane and flat-top hat — as the big Duffy balloon lurched to life by the shores of the Ottawa River. All in all, a pretty good likeness. VVV Oh, I know. I'm just surprised at how good the balloon is. Political Whores fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 02:14
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I would feel better about that if the Canadian Taxpayers Federation weren't scum-of-the-earth level neoliberals.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:45
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Twiin posted:What the gently caress is this? How dare a LOWLY STUDENT help determine the reason that LOWLY STUDENTS weren't engaged by the party's message! Yeah I kinda take it back... It was just a phenomenally insubstantial public persona I guess, but like others mentioned, that doesn't actually tell us anything about her. Otoh, I do kinda wish the people who put her up might have...? On the surface it does just seem to be token pandering - "no really, the leadership is not made up primarily of old guard boomers"
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Jul 20, 2013 03:59
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Sassafras fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Nov 26, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 08:49
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I've got three things for you today: First, the notion that we don't have backstabbing and betrayals in our current system of choosing party leaders is not really accurate. Ignatieff essentially backstabbed and deposed Dion with the full support of the party, because he was the only real option to replace him. Martin did a similar thing to Chretien. I kinda hate to say it, but imagine if someone other than Justin Trudeau had won the Liberal leadership race. Do you think Trudeau, the God-and-central-leadership-anointed Next Prime Minister would have just gone back to being an obedient MP? I have a sneaking feeling he would have just been waiting and biding his time until he could depose the leader and assume the reins. Outside the Liberal Party I could see Mulcair doing the same thing had he lost, and if the Conservatives' fortunes continue declining I wouldn't be surprised to see somebody like Jason Kenney start undermining Harper to distance himself from the current government and prepare the way for his own leadership bid. Second, there's a giant oil spill ongoing in Alberta and nobody understands how to clean it up, not even the company's own scientists. quote:Oil spills at a major oil sands operation in Alberta have been ongoing for at least six weeks and have cast doubts on the safety of underground extraction methods, according to documents obtained by the Star and a government scientist who has been on site. Oh yeah, and they're also literally defiling a native burial ground: quote:The Cold Lake operations are on the traditional territory of the Beaver Lake Cree First Nation, which is pursuing a constitutional challenge that argues the cumulative impacts of oil sands industrial development are infringing their treaty rights to hunt, fish and trap. I hope native ghosts come and destroy their entire company. Third, someone from Kingston posted this on the internet:   with the comment: quote:Kingston, Ontario is a very gay-friendly city. Just this year, the city itself sponsored Pride, and raised a rainbow flag at city hall for the month of June (our pride month). I really hope it's a fake thing, but if it's not... 
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Jul 20, 2013 14:21
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The letters remind me very much of what kids would write in order to gently caress around with people, but I'm really not sure. edit: yeah, even in my misspent youth, loving around with people never left a paper trail, and it never went as far as threatening someone with real guns. edit2: or fake guns! Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 14:31
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Even if it's 'just' kids messing around, the fact that they put in the second letter 'Unfortunately we can't buy real guns to shoot [and kill] you with, so we'll shoot you with BBs instead' is loving sickening.
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Jul 20, 2013 14:34
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Where in Canada are guns hard to find? According to the Yellow Pages, Kingston has 9 gun stores. That's not even counting the black market. It's not even hard to get a non-restricted PAL. The hardest part is finding two people to confirm that you aren't a sociopath. My money's on teenagers.
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Jul 20, 2013 15:00
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http://www.ndp.ca/news/reality-check-are-you-conservatives-enemies-list lmao at the third option for every multiple choice. It'd almost be worth it to spam that.
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Jul 20, 2013 15:08
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mr. unhsib posted:Today in wretched Canadian media, Cory Monteith died because InSite, probably. Oh and a heroin addiction is compared to liking sushi a lot: http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/Corbella+Vancouver+easy+drug+access+have+helped+kill/8678866/story.html I mean, besides the fact that this writer is an idiot. That's a given. Also, nobody outside of Vancouver uses smack; it's all pills out here!
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Jul 20, 2013 15:11
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vyelkin posted:
I'll be honest. When I first read those yesterday, I didn't doubt anything about them. But on subsequent readings, there were a few lines that set off my bullshit alarm. The references to a shadowy Christian cabal in the 'Deep South', the complaint about gun control, and the passage about being 'energized' by Supreme Court decisions is so over-the-top that it reads like a parody written by a leftist, or at least a normal person writing the way they think bigots talk. It reminds me of a writing assignment where a bunch of English majors had to conceal a crappy product review they'd written among real ones - it was almost always easy to detect the writings of a good writer pretending to be stupid. From those letters, I get the sense of a regular old rear end in a top hat pretending to be a whole-hearted bigot. What I'm hoping is that it's either a lone rear end in a top hat who doesn't really mean it or a kid pulling a particularly lovely and illegal prank.
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Jul 20, 2013 15:19
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Huge Liability posted:I'll be honest. When I first read those yesterday, I didn't doubt anything about them. But on subsequent readings, there were a few lines that set off my bullshit alarm. The references to a shadowy Christian cabal in the 'Deep South', the complaint about gun control, and the passage about being 'energized' by Supreme Court decisions is so over-the-top that it reads like a parody written by a leftist, or at least a normal person writing the way they think bigots talk. It reminds me of a writing assignment where a bunch of English majors had to conceal a crappy product review they'd written among real ones - it was almost always easy to detect the writings of a good writer pretending to be stupid. From those letters, I get the sense of a regular old rear end in a top hat pretending to be a whole-hearted bigot. Apparently the person they were sent to is a Queens prof and HuffPo blogger, so who the hell knows, really. http://www.queerty.com/homophobic-letters-threaten-violence-against-lesbian-couple-refusing-to-reconvert-20130719/
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Jul 20, 2013 16:47
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Kafka Esq. posted:The letters remind me very much of what kids would write in order to gently caress around with people, but I'm really not sure. Considering some of the poo poo I've seen from grown adults is even more immature and idiotic than the poo poo I did as a kid... No, I'm perfectly able to believe that adults wrote that. They may not be serious, but it's a definite possibility.
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Jul 20, 2013 16:56
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Somehow I'm not surprised this happened in Ontario. I know I am painting in broad strokes here, but here in Calgary the worst "MOOSLEMS AND LIBERALS AND GAYS RUININ' ARE COUNTRY" strain of conservatives almost always seem to be from Ontario.
MrChips fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 18:57
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That Kingston letter... I don't know if I should be surprised or not. I spent some time in Kingston and it's a very pro-gay town. Anyone who has been to the Sleepless Goat Cafe knows this. By being so progressive, you'd think that people like those who wrote the letter wouldn't exist but being that pro-gay in a town still close to the more remote areas of Ontario, it's no surprise really. Kingston has a strange mix of students, blue collar, high income and backwater remote rednecks. The idea of there being a minority of militant Christians... yeah it doesn't surprise me. I'm sure they will shoot up Tara Natural Foods too with their stupid BBs.
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Jul 20, 2013 19:33
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Kafka Esq. posted:http://www.ndp.ca/news/reality-check-are-you-conservatives-enemies-list Better still, if you pick the third option every time but one: quote:You’re so close to Conservative conformity...
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Jul 20, 2013 19:47
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PittTheElder posted:Better still, if you pick the third option every time but one. That was me!
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Jul 20, 2013 19:49
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