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I just did my first run through on BNW (I've played G&K a number of times). I decided to start on King to get a feel for it and because people seemed to be having difficulties in here. I got a culture victory as Poland remarkably easily. I managed to win with it in 1910 before even getting airports, the internet, or the cultural center, which all add a ton to tourism. And that was with France in the game with their culture boosts. Somehow I managed to get Globe Theatre, Uffizi, The Louvre, the Sistine Chapel, and Broadway in addition to the Hermitage and Oxford national wonders. And I managed to fill them all up except for Hermitage and that was just because not enough works were available from other Civs to swap. So, by the end I was generating like 400 tourism and 750 culture. It was pretty ridiculous considering it was before all those massive end game bonuses. So, I guess I'll move up to Emperor. MickRaider posted:Has anyone successfully done a tourism victory in under 300 turns? I just finished at 329 on King. I could've had a chance at sub 300 if it wasn't for France. I guess I could have also spammed great musician tours. Steve112sms fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 01:26
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Brannock posted:I wish swordsmen were actually relevant or had some sort of bonus. No point in them requiring iron when Pikemen are resource-free and do the job just as well. +25% to city attack maybe? Iron working is somewhat cheaper now than it was before so you can rush it a bit more easily. Take Bronze Working early, find out if there is iron nearby, and if so, rush iron working for swords and you should have a decent length of time before anyone researches pikemen. Early game rushing is really their only use, though. What's most stupid is that Pikemen are cheaper to build/buy than swords. It would almost seem like an oversight if it hasn't been that way for so long. Why is the objectively better in every possible way unit cheaper to build? It makes no sense.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:30
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Brannock posted:I wish swordsmen were actually relevant or had some sort of bonus. No point in them requiring iron when Pikemen are resource-free and do the job just as well. +25% to city attack maybe? Swordsmen are more useful than pikemen because they don't upgrade into loving lancers. If you're throwing them away then you might as well go with pikemen but if you plan to upgrade through to the endgame you're shooting yourself in the foot not taking the time to get swordsmen, since they'll carry through their upgrades to musketmen, riflemen, and so on. Pikemen are only objectively better if your enemy has nothing but horses and/or you aren't thinking ahead poverty goat fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 01:35
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Iron working is somewhat cheaper now than it was before so you can rush it a bit more easily. Take Bronze Working early, find out if there is iron nearby, and if so, rush iron working for swords and you should have a decent length of time before anyone researches pikemen. Don't Pikemen cost 90 production and Swordsmen 75?
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Jul 20, 2013 01:37
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Reveilled posted:Don't Pikemen cost 90 production and Swordsmen 75? Hmm, this is true, but I'm pretty sure Pikemen are cheaper to buy with money.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:38
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gggiiimmmppp posted:Swordsmen are more useful than pikemen because they don't upgrade into loving lancers. If you're throwing them away then you might as well go with pikemen but if you plan to upgrade through to the endgame you're shooting yourself in the foot not taking the time to get swordsmen, since they'll carry through their upgrades to musketmen, riflemen, and so on. Pikemen upgrade into Winged Hussars 
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Jul 20, 2013 01:50
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Honestly, combat is really unbalanced overall. The typical bread and butter melee unit has very limited use, and ranged dominates everything. I have a few ideas of what balanced combat should look like but I don't know if they're actually good ideas. They should probably at least give mounted units a bonus against ranged. Civil Service should be one column back, alongside Chivalry and Steel (seriously, why are you able to build a unit's counter before even that unit itself? It should be an either-or choice). Also, get bring back the archer's penalty against cities and give everyone an early game siege unit like a battering ram (but not like Atilla's battering ram, god no). And make the late game one-range ranged units not be able to move and shoot on the same turn. My biggest problem with early game combat as it is now is that archer blobs are just boring. They're a pain to manage, and every army composition just looks the same. You should actually be required to protect your ranged with more melee screens, archers should still be good at focus firing down threats from safety, and swordsmen should be relevant for longer periods of time, with the option of getting longswordsmen at the same time as pikemen, not after. I dunno, maybe these are awful ideas, but I think combat balance is so out of whack as it is now that it makes what could be really interesting tactical gameplay a game of "who can mass the most archers?" Especially in multiplayer. edit: I also think Pikemen should have a better upgrade path than what they currently do. If mounted units are made more useful, then Lancers would be made more useful, but even still it's not until Helicopter Gunships that those get an upgrade. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 01:59
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Ahhaaa, decided to have a nice peaceful game. Neighbors are Monty and Shaka. Monty's out extremely fast, and Shaka declares The Forever War on me, starts sending wave after wave of impis and trebuchets. I was Ethiopia, and I took Defender of the Faith when I saw this loving nonsense, and that's really the only way I was able to survive any of this. I was also remarkably pleased with my horsemen for once in my life. When there's a million trebuchets on the screen, there's not enough pikemen to defend them all. I still gave up though. 
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Jul 20, 2013 02:06
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 Why is trade still impossible in this game? This guy is neutral with me and look what he asked when I said "what would make this work?" I don't think I've ever been able to trade on an even ground with anybody but this is just on another level of bullshit. On King difficulty btw. That guy looks a loving orc too.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:33
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Was it his last copper? They always do that if it's the last copy they have.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:35
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In his list, is the number next to the resource 1 or higher? If it's 1, then it's their only remaining copy of that resource and they will want an arm and a leg for it unless you're good friends (in which case it's just an arm or a leg). If you are asking for a spare resource, they will give you a fair trade.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:36
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:In his list, is the number next to the resource 1 or higher? If it's 1, then it's their only remaining copy of that resource and they will want an arm and a leg for it unless you're good friends (in which case it's just an arm or a leg). If you are asking for a spare resource, they will give you a fair trade. Ahh yeah that makes sense. I think it was his only copper. I guess I need to wean myself out of the Total War mindset that trade is a walk in the park.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:38
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Geez Brazil starts are rough with the jungle favoritism. Had a map that i couldn't even get a scout out in 5 turns.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:42
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Athropos posted:Why is trade still impossible in this game? This guy is neutral with me and look what he asked when I said "what would make this work?"
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Jul 20, 2013 02:44
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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misguided rage posted:That button seems pretty useless. If you just straight up propose your gems for his copper he will likely take it. In experience if they aren't friendly with you, they typically want 3 luxuries for their 1 last luxury. If they're friendly, it's a 2 to 1.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:44
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Brannock posted:In experience if they aren't friendly with you, they typically want 3 luxuries for their 1 last luxury. If they're friendly, it's a 2 to 1. 2:1 makes sense, because otherwise, you're getting something, and they just break even.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:46
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Athropos posted:
Right, the deal is this. If you have one of a luxury, you get four happiness for it. If you have two of a luxury, you get four happiness for it. So, you might as well trade one away for something else. The AI understands this, so if it has two of a luxury, it's quite happy to trade one away for a different luxury. HOWEVER, if you only have one of a luxury, you're giving up four happiness for the trade, so you're going to want something more than that in exchange - two or more luxuries, to be precise. Therefore, the AI will only trade away its last copy of a luxury if you are offering a really good deal. Don't bother asking if it's their last copy of a luxury.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:50
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If you feel like being cheesy you can buy a civ's last copy of a luxury for whatever ridiculous price they're after to trigger a WTLKD or two before you go to war with them.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:54
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Is there an easy place to check what cities want what luxury for WLTKD? I always forget what I need to trade for.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:00
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Had a ton of fun with BNW but I'm taking a break for a bit - they need to do something about city state influence (in general) and the diplomatic win. It's far too easy right now, even on higher difficulties, and that's if you are not abusing a few AI quirks that make it even worse (most notably trading for lump sum gold and then declaring war, but there are other issues, including the Winner Wins More nature of city state quests at the moment). Definitely no complaints about the new systems overall though, BNW is a really great, fleshed out expac, it just needs a bit of tuning.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:09
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Mahasamatman posted:Is there an easy place to check what cities want what luxury for WLTKD? I always forget what I need to trade for. In the city screen, top centre.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:14
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Is there ever a reason to give in to the charity requests your friends ask of you? And will DOF buddies ever let you ask for charity and give in?
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Jul 20, 2013 03:21
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In Morocco first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women. Thinking where my explorer is looks like a nice second city spot. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 03:29
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Filthy Monkey posted:In Morocco first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women. Everytime people post these Morocco starts I can only think to myself I wish the Dutch had that start bias.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:33
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uPen posted:Everytime people post these Morocco starts I can only think to myself I wish the Dutch had that start bias. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5BmrPkgYeA
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Jul 20, 2013 03:37
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Okimin posted:Is there ever a reason to give in to the charity requests your friends ask of you? Sure. Pay up if... 1) The cost to you is not that bad, 2) The idea of that player getting stronger doesn't bother you; they aren't a major threat to you winning the game. 3) You really want them on your side.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:39
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I had some sort of weird glitch where Ashurbanipal was doing an even 1:1 trade for his last copy of crabs. He renewed it a bunch of times too. None of the other AIs were doing it. fake edit: Mac finally got the update for moving iron back to Bronze Working. Were there any other significant things in that patch?
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Jul 20, 2013 03:48
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:fake edit: Mac finally got the update for moving iron back to Bronze Working. Were there any other significant things in that patch? Some AI improvements and new tile and unit graphics, but otherwise, no, not to my knowledge.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:53
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I had some sort of weird glitch where Ashurbanipal was doing an even 1:1 trade for his last copy of crabs. He renewed it a bunch of times too. None of the other AIs were doing it. You can't trade things you are yourself trading for, so he may have been acquiring crabs from someone else, upgraded his own afterwards, saw he had two, and then traded the 'spare' with you. As long as his other trade never got disrupted, he might not cancel yours either. It's unusual, but not impossible.
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Jul 20, 2013 04:35
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:fake edit: Mac finally got the update for moving iron back to Bronze Working. Were there any other significant things in that patch? Treaty Organization changed from this:  to this: 
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Jul 20, 2013 04:50
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Platystemon posted:Treaty Organization changed from this: Glad they changed that, it was absolutely ridiculous in my Venice diplomacy victory. The only way the AI could supplant me as a city-state's best bud was through coups. Even then I still had the votes of all the others they couldn't have spies in.
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Jul 20, 2013 05:11
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Bashez posted:I still don't understand the appeal of liberty. Meritocracy is just a slightly different version of Aristocracy, except it makes sure you're broke. Maybe I'm just consistently unlucky to have my secondary luxury resources be 6 to 10 tiles away but it's frequently not worth the money drain on roads until the city is close to big enough to be hitting the Aristocracy bonus anyway. Well he specifically asked for how comparing deep honor to honor+liberty, so that's why i answered with referring to Meritocracy. Personally i prefer Liberty - it means i can get, let's just say Ceremonial Burial, off of one shrine, something i can't pull off with Tradition without a lot of luck. It makes early land grab a little easier, but ultimately it's just two things 1)my timing is better with Liberty, and that's entirely personal and 2)in the metagame with the friends i play with, i'd rather get some extra early cities and religion than whatever i'm supposed to get off of Tradition. This stuff won't apply to fighting Deity AIs, because Deity AIs make early land grab basically a solved game. I really don't understand how you are bankrupting yourself with Liberty compared to Tradition. I'm usually richer than my friends (who are all dedicated Tradition Mongers), but much much less happy since i basically settle cities more or less as i hit 4 happiness up until i run out of good sites. Be a scrooge and use harbors instead of roads (my money is coming from selling lux to AIs - yea it's only GPT, but hey it's GPT and i get a lot more because more cities). e: are you building poo poo like rax and temples? Because those things are basically traps for Liberty play.
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Jul 20, 2013 05:11
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When you go liberty, sell off some extra luxuries to the AI. They're worth 6gpt, or 240 gold with a friendship agreement. It will mitigate the lack of meritocracy and allow you to delay building caravans/cargo ships for a little while longer. Well, you should really do this no matter what tree you start with, but doing so will ensure you stay out of the red with Liberty. Always try to steal a worker from a city state (declare war, capture it, make peace all in one turn), and on top of the representation worker you should be able to work all of your excess luxuries fast enough. Even non-excess luxuries should be sold if you can spare them.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:13
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So I was playing a small continents game, and after a bit of exploration realized there sure as hell wasn't enough room on this island for both me and Assyria (the one CS can stay I guess). And..I committed my first unprovoked genocide. Ignoring optics I rushed mathematics, and by the time I took out his second city I had 2 catapults ready to knock his capital out. I think I'm addicted. After Boudicca took over Japan (the other 3 civs were on a large island with Japan as some kind of OCC and the Iroquois with 2 cities)I 100% intended to to liberate Japan, but then I conquered the city and thought, "well, that is rather a lot of incense, and I am religiously optimized for that based on all my absurd amounts of wine" and I didn't give it back even though I'm going for diplomatic victory.  I think I'm drunk with power.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:38
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Could have liberated Japan, gifted them a crappy iceball city you plant specifically for this purpose, then declared war and retaken the capital. Not sure if they'll still vote for you though. But really, the votes are swung by who has the most city-states not who has the best diplomacy, so it'd work out about the same either way.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:45
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:So I was playing a small continents game, and after a bit of exploration realized there sure as hell wasn't enough room on this island for both me and Assyria (the one CS can stay I guess). And..I committed my first unprovoked genocide. Ignoring optics I rushed mathematics, and by the time I took out his second city I had 2 catapults ready to knock his capital out. I think I'm addicted. After Boudicca took over Japan (the other 3 civs were on a large island with Japan as some kind of OCC and the Iroquois with 2 cities)I 100% intended to to liberate Japan, but then I conquered the city and thought, "well, that is rather a lot of incense, and I am religiously optimized for that based on all my absurd amounts of wine" and I didn't give it back even though I'm going for diplomatic victory. A diplomatic victory is an economic victory so don't you dare give them their luxuries back. If they want that incense so bad they can buy it from you.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:49
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Tulip posted:e: are you building poo poo like rax and temples? Because those things are basically traps for Liberty play.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:52
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uPen posted:A diplomatic victory is an economic victory so don't you dare give them their luxuries back. If they want that incense so bad they can buy it from you. Well I figured if I liberated Japan they would vote for me, but if I don't liberate them and have tons of incense I can just vote for myself with all my CS allies. So gently caress Japan I guess. edit: I was really just proud of myself for committing completely unwarranted genocide.
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Jul 20, 2013 08:04
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I wish they would have thrown in some modern great works. It's 1990, and there's a new mega-hit blazing its way to the top of the charts: "Symphony No. 9" by Anton Dvorak. The kids are just crazy for symphonic music, just like everyone has been for the past 400 years.
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Jul 20, 2013 08:30
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Paying royalties for copyrighted music and art when most people will skip past them or never see them at all is not a very wise use of budget.
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Jul 20, 2013 08:43
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