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You do realize real life is not a PnP RPG and you don't have to specialize in one or two things, right? Right? 
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Jul 20, 2013 02:27
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Martello posted:You do realize real life is not a PnP RPG and you don't have to specialize in one or two things, right? TRY COLLEGE THEY LITERALLY MAKE YOU DO THAT OK
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Jul 20, 2013 02:29
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Martello posted:You do realize real life is not a PnP RPG and you don't have to specialize in one or two things, right? Yeah, but it's also not realistic to be super good at a variety of things since most things worth learning take time to develop and there's only so much energy one can devote to certain activities. You can't exactly be a concert pianist, a varsity player in 3 sports, AND be an expert sniper. At least it would be extremely rare. (ETA: For the record, when I mentioned RP, I meant starting off the character creation process with a basic bio sheet for keeping track of important facts: name, age, personality, backstory. Nothing too extensive. I have zero experience in dice rolling or stats counting, which seems to be what people are thinking that I do in this case.) crabrock posted:TRY COLLEGE THEY LITERALLY MAKE YOU DO THAT OK And all joking aside, to be that knowledgeable about certain academic topics, yeah, there would be some narrowing of topics of study involved. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 02:47
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Are you loving serious
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Jul 20, 2013 02:59
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Weren't you just specifically talking about being both intelligent AND good at physical things, though? Because I put it to you that being intelligent would be helpful in excelling at other, multiple areas.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:03
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Sherlocks Holmes is male, but he is super intelligent and also a boxing master and stuff. But then he is a drug addict and has like Asperger's or whatever (undiagnosed). It's not really so much they can't be good/capable of things, just that they have to be fleshed out characters with real personality flaws because it must mirror reality to some extent to be believable. ^^ Yeah like Chairchuckler said. To put it in terms of Sherlock Downey Jr. movies he uses his intelligence there to help plan fights and stuff.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:04
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Chairchucker posted:Weren't you just specifically talking about being both intelligent AND good at physical things, though? Because I put it to you that being intelligent would be helpful in excelling at other, multiple areas. Perhaps the heat and my prescription-strength allergy meds are making me loopy and I'm not being as clear as I mean to be. In that case, apologies. By "physical things," I mean like martial prowess. I just meant having a high IQ or being traditionally "book smart" doesn't always equate, as they say, "street smart" or being gifted in one of the other intelligences (i.e. Musical - Rhymthic, Bodily - Kinesthic, Interpersonal, etc.). I was simply wondering how "gifted" could a young female character reasonably be without being considered over-the-top. PoshAlligator posted:Sherlocks Holmes is male, but he is super intelligent and also a boxing master and stuff. But then he is a drug addict and has like Asperger's or whatever (undiagnosed). Ah, okay, excellent example, PoshAlligator! Thank you, that's basically what I was looking for. I hadn't thought of him as an example. I suppose the intelligence when utilized in planning would work appropriately. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 03:10
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Well if you're using point buy, just make her socially awkward or vulnerable to kryptonite or something, I dunno. Seriously though just don't make her perfect and you're probably in the clear.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:12
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Panda So Panda posted:Yeah, but it's also not realistic to be super good at a variety of things since most things worth learning take time to develop and there's only so much energy one can devote to certain activities (i.e. you can't be a concert pianist, a varsity player in 3 sports, AND be an expert sniper -- at least it would be extremely rare). And all joking aside, to be that knowledgeable about certain academic topics, yeah, there would be some narrowing of topics of study involved. Are you familiar with the ten thousand hours theory proposed by Malcolm Gladwell in Outliers? Whether or not you subscribe to all of Gladwell's ideas, the concept isn't too crazy: it takes about ten thousand hours of devoted practice to reach an expert level of skill. If you subscribe to this, time is really your only limit -- how many things would she have this much time to devote to, or 7000 hours, or 5000? And as others have said, being intelligent will only help in these areas; even in less intellectual skills like art or physical abilities, intelligence certainly won't hurt. Smart = weak is a fallacy. Ignore what other specifically female characters have done. God knows we more diversity to draw from, so reference any character or real person you like. Don't forget that what makes a character interesting are not her abilities, but her complexities and flaws. Give her all the skills you want as long as you don't trick yourself into thinking that a character is her skills.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:31
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Make her a dick.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:33
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Just write something with a good story and it won't matter if your protagonist is a super amazing wunderkind or a pathetic no-talent moron because it will be enjoyable to read. It's not a D&D campaign, it's a novel/short story, right?
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Jul 20, 2013 04:36
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I once had to give my character downs syndrome because he only had six points left for int after I used up all my good rolls on strength and constitution. Oh wait, that was a real DnD game. I don't write stories like that because that's stupid.
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Jul 20, 2013 04:54
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I would deffo buy a book that came with DnD character sheets for all the principle characters. Especially if it wasn't fantasy at all and was just like, a political drama set in 1987.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:43
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To add to what everybody else is saying, it really doesn't matter. There are pro athletes who also happen to be legit geniuses. Some people just win the genetic lottery. When readers complain about characters being "unrealistically talented" or whatever, that's not really what they're complaining about. That's just the easiest way to phrase what's actually bothering them about the story in question. You can make a character strong and fast and smart and cool all at the same time, but the big things I think you should keep in mind are these: 1. The story needs to challenge the character relative to his or her abilities. It's much easier when you go out of your way to DnD balance characters like it seems like you want to be told to do, because then you can just have the story say "Hey weak smart guy, lift this rock" or "Hey strong dumb guy, solve this riddle." You're going to have to work harder to come up with situations in which multi-talented characters will struggle. To give you an example of what I'm talking about here from my own dumb project, my male lead is super smart and also good at fighting. To challenge him, I try to put him in situations where he has to make decisions based on incomplete information, or have him face opponents who outclass him physically to such a degree that he needs to use all of his tools to win, or just punch him in his emotional balls a whole bunch. 2. If you make a multi-talented character, don't have your other characters talk about how cool and special it makes that character. poo poo like this is loving lame and it lets the reader see your hands manipulating the story. They will disengage from the character and start seeing it as your power fantasy puppet rather than buying into the illusion that it's a real person. That's really when you get people complaining about characters being "unbalanced" and "overpowered" and what have you, because the reader isn't seeing a character anymore, they're seeing a math equation. 3. Put a lot of thought into how the character's talents interact. If you have a character who is both smart and strong, how do those traits enhance one another? How do they undermine one another? Does the character favor one over the other, and if so, why? How do those traits play with other aspects of the character's personality, as well as the character's background? These are all things you should think about. As an aside related to that, seeing as you said you're coming from text RPGs, I'm gonna recommend you never ever make one of them character sheets for an actual story. Some people do and I guess it works for them, but I wouldn't use something like that for anything except keeping track of the broadest possible facts. I've seen people using them to try and list descriptive character traits and whatnot, but that's always seemed to me like stapling a fake mustache to the character's face instead of actually letting them grow one. 4. Panda So Panda posted:out of the desire to not make them Mary Sues. Throw this poo poo away. Leave the fear of Mary Sues to fanfiction writers. Anyway I hope this post is helpful.
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Jul 20, 2013 10:21
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Chexoid posted:I would deffo buy a book that came with DnD character sheets for all the principle characters. Especially if it wasn't fantasy at all and was just like, a political drama set in 1987.
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Jul 20, 2013 10:33
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:The amazing and underrated Tongan Ninja gives all the bad guys stat sheets. FIGHTING SPIRIT: 0 But come on Muffin, it's a terrible movie apart from Jemaine.
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Jul 20, 2013 11:16
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There is no reason why you can't have the character flaw of your beautiful babby hero be a personality or psychological one, rather than something as shallow as not being able to lift more weights or solve more maths equations.
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Jul 20, 2013 11:33
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Crisco Kid posted:Are you familiar with the ten thousand hours theory proposed by Malcolm Gladwell in Outliers? Whether or not you subscribe to all of Gladwell's ideas, the concept isn't too crazy: it takes about ten thousand hours of devoted practice to reach an expert level of skill. If you subscribe to this, time is really your only limit -- how many things would she have this much time to devote to, or 7000 hours, or 5000? And as others have said, being intelligent will only help in these areas; even in less intellectual skills like art or physical abilities, intelligence certainly won't hurt. Smart = weak is a fallacy. Ignore what other specifically female characters have done. God knows we more diversity to draw from, so reference any character or real person you like. Thank you for giving the source of the theory. I do recall professors mentioning something like this as applied to learning, but I couldn't remember the details. TheIncredulousHulk posted:To add to what everybody else is saying, it really doesn't matter. There are pro athletes who also happen to be legit geniuses. Some people just win the genetic lottery. When readers complain about characters being "unrealistically talented" or whatever, that's not really what they're complaining about. That's just the easiest way to phrase what's actually bothering them about the story in question. This was very helpful, thank you. The consensus seems to be about focusing on balancing out the talents with reasonable flaws, and execution by presenting everything in an non-idiotic way that pulls attention away from the story itself. There will be adequate content to her backstory that she would have to have some psychological flaws.
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Jul 20, 2013 14:28
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Stuporstar posted:I once had to give my character downs syndrome because he only had six points left for int after I used up all my good rolls on strength and constitution. Oh wait, that was a real DnD game. I don't write stories like that because that's stupid. same
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Jul 20, 2013 14:51
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Honestly, if you can't think of any characters who are both smart and physically skilled, you really need to read more.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:27
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Honestly, if you can't think of any characters who are both smart and physically skilled, you really need to read more. I can think of plenty of characters who are both. However, the character comparisons I had in mind... someone having the combination of the academic-oriented intelligence of Hermione Granger as well as the butt-kicking skills of Buffy, to cite a couple of age range appropriate young female characters. No examples of such a character came readily to mind when I wrote the post, especially YA examples, although in retrospect I suppose Annabeth Chase from the PJO books fits the bill. I had been hoping for some more well-written examples, though, so I can get a better idea of how to portray such a character believably. How to show, not tell with long paragraphs of ramble-y infodumping. A rather amateur question, perhaps, but I am obviously an inexperienced writer, which is why I ask. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 01:59
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Unrelated to the topic at hand, but: I've recently hopped over to a standing desk, and I've that my energy level is a hell of a lot higher when I write. When I hit a block, I pace around for a little and usually find another approach in a much shorter time than I would sitting. Seem to get more done, too. Anecdotal, I know, but I'm honestly surprised at how much I've learned to like standing.
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Jul 21, 2013 05:02
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3Romeo posted:Anecdotal, I know, but I'm honestly surprised at how much I've learned to like standing. Not sure a thread about fiction is going to be annoyed at you posting anecdotes. Content: How do y'all cope with writer's block? I get it pretty severely and it's more-or-less because of anxiety. Drinking and smoking help me write by relaxing me but I just quit smoking and don't want to become reliant on booze.
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Jul 21, 2013 18:10
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Purple Prince posted:Not sure a thread about fiction is going to be annoyed at you posting anecdotes. I quit smoking a couple months ago, and I found smoking a pipe so ingrained into my writing habit, I couldn't sit down to write without getting such intense cravings I couldn't write a damned thing. It's going to be hell for a while. There's no getting around it, but the cravings do go away. You need to distract yourself. Honestly, if you do nothing but play video games for a month while riding out the worst of it, no one is going to blame you. Give youself a month vacation from every stressor you can safely ignore. After that month, rebuild youself. Replace all your bad habits with good. Get back in the game. I'm slowly rebuilding my writing habit now that I've stopped thinking about smoking, and sitting down to write doesn't trigger cravings as much anymore. In the rare times it does, I stand up and take some quick exercise for a mild dopamine rush. If it's really bad I take a half hour walk, which also fills the idea well. I also use tea as a surrogate. Sleep deprivation causes a state similar to a mild alcoholic buzz. I often pull all-nighters when writing a first draft, because that's the best time for me to get into the flow without my internal editor butting in. I know that doesn't work for a lot of people's schedules, but even writing when you're groggy has proven to be more effective than when you think you're at your best during the day. There's been a few recent studies showing people are at their most creative when they're the least awake. For night people, that means slinging your rear end out of bed and hitting the keyboard for an hour before you even make coffee. For day people it means writing for an hour or so before bed. A non-liver killing alternative to Hemingway's advice: Write groggy; edit alert. This may not work for everyone, but if you're stuck, changing your habit might kick you into gear. If you're not getting anything done, what do you have to lose? Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 19:00
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Stuporstar posted:If you're not getting anything done, what do you have to lose? Just want to let this breathe.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:26
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Orson "Exterminate the Gays" Card suggests that writer's block is your brain telling you that you're doing something wrong. Look over what you've already written and try to improve it. If you're staring at a blank page, look at something you finished in the past. Get your mind running.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:40
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Panda So Panda posted:I can think of plenty of characters who are both. However, the character comparisons I had in mind... someone having the combination of the academic-oriented intelligence of Hermione Granger as well as the butt-kicking skills of Buffy, to cite a couple of age range appropriate young female characters. No examples of such a character came readily to mind when I wrote the post, especially YA examples, although in retrospect I suppose Annabeth Chase from the PJO books fits the bill. I had been hoping for some more well-written examples, though, so I can get a better idea of how to portray such a character believably. How to show, not tell with long paragraphs of ramble-y infodumping. A rather amateur question, perhaps, but I am obviously an inexperienced writer, which is why I ask. Give us like a scene or something. You're just going on about characters and sounding like a DnD/Buffy the Vampire Slayer crossover fanfic writer or something. None of us can give you advice about your characters if you don't show us how you're going to use them.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:49
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3Romeo posted:Unrelated to the topic at hand, but: I've recently hopped over to a standing desk, and I've that my energy level is a hell of a lot higher when I write. When I hit a block, I pace around for a little and usually find another approach in a much shorter time than I would sitting. Seem to get more done, too. Mind if I ask, did you buy a dedicated standing desk ready to go, or build some sort of rig? I've been considering doing something myself, though as it'd just be for writing, I've been looking at various low-cost DIY solutions myself.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:53
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Martello posted:Give us like a scene or something. You're just going on about characters and sounding like a DnD/Buffy the Vampire Slayer crossover fanfic writer or something. None of us can give you advice about your characters if you don't show us how you're going to use them. I haven't yet gotten to a scene in my project that illustrates this specifically since I am still early in my character creation and writing stage -- no action scenes that would require my heroine to be both brainy and brawny (unless you meant any writing sample for this character at all) -- but I certainly will when I do. Thanks to everyone who commented for their feedback! Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 00:29
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Panda So Panda posted:I haven't yet gotten to a scene in my project that illustrates this specifically since I am still early in my character creation and writing stage -- no action scenes that would require my heroine to be both brainy and brawny (unless you meant any writing sample for this character at all) -- but I certainly will when I do. Read this right loving now, http://writerunboxed.com/2013/07/19/avoiding-boring-character-biographies/ and then write some scenes for your character. Don't even think about making a pansy little character sheet or plotting your story yet. If you're too timid to commit to your story because you're pissing around, then at least piss around in a constructive way. Get some goddamned words on the page, mister. Also, Soulcleaver, he's quitting smoking. The source if his writers block is quitting smoking. The solution is taking some time out to quit smoking. For gently caress's sake. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 00:51
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Yalborap posted:Mind if I ask, did you buy a dedicated standing desk ready to go, or build some sort of rig? I've been considering doing something myself, though as it'd just be for writing, I've been looking at various low-cost DIY solutions myself. I rigged it by putting two end tables on top of my desk, one in front of the other. The back end table has the monitor, and the one in front, which is slightly lower, has the keyboard and the mouse. (By coincidence, that front table happens to be the perfect height for the kb & mouse--right at elbow level.) I've been using it for about a week, and I've really learned to like it, but I also used to spend most of my days standing up over a bench (I was a furniture carpenter before this whole MFA shindig). I'll probably build a proper wall-mounted desk for myself sometime soon. And for what it's worth, I can't overstate how great it is to be physically active while you think--I pace or lift weights or stretch when I hit a block,and I find that I come up with ideas much faster.
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Jul 22, 2013 01:03
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Stuporstar posted:Read this right loving now, http://writerunboxed.com/2013/07/19/avoiding-boring-character-biographies/ and then write some scenes for your character. Don't even think about making a pansy little character sheet or plotting your story yet. If you're too timid to commit to your story because you're pissing around, then at least piss around in a constructive way. Get some goddamned words on the page, mister. If it would be helpful, I could post up the first chronological scene that involves this character. But as I mentioned, it's early in the story and I don't think it would show too much of the character. I do have a few main characters thought up and a short, lovely outline worked out. I tend to over-research and overthink my characters, which I'm sure is apparent. It's finally hit me that I do this to my detriment when I recently asked a question about character creation on Joe Abercrombie's blog and he suggested creating a basic idea of the characters but allowing them to take form more organically. I appreciate the link! I work well with prompts, so this will be a great exercise in character exploration for me. I will get cracking on a few when I get back home from work tomorrow. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 01:06
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Panda So Panda, it might be useful to look at why your character is both brainy (intellectual/educated) and physical (fit/strong). Being smart doesn't make you know things automatically, and having the potential to be fit doesn't mean you'll work out. Was she placed in the gifted program at school? Did her parents place an emphasis on education? Did they notice her becoming withdrawn or a bookworm and put her into team sports to develop her emotional intelligence? Did she realise she couldn't relate to peers in her age group and so decide to take up sports to make friends? Did she read about feminism and realise that the stereotype of brainy=weak was bullshit and decide to work on her physical strength? Does she find her brains difficult to deal with and enjoy the stress release and endorphins of exercise? You need to think about your character and what forces have shaped her life.
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Jul 22, 2013 01:38
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Stuporstar posted:Also, Soulcleaver, he's quitting smoking. The source if his writers block is quitting smoking. The solution is taking some time out to quit smoking. For gently caress's sake.
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Jul 22, 2013 05:07
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Panda So Panda posted:If it would be helpful, I could post up the first chronological scene that involves this character. But as I mentioned, it's early in the story and I don't think it would show too much of the character. I do have a few main characters thought up and a short, lovely outline worked out. I tend to over-research and overthink my characters, which I'm sure is apparent. It's finally hit me that I do this to my detriment when I recently asked a question about character creation on Joe Abercrombie's blog and he suggested creating a basic idea of the characters but allowing them to take form more organically.
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Jul 22, 2013 05:15
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Soulcleaver posted:I offered some maybe useful advice from a famous (if morally repugnant) writer? Not seeing the problem here. You offered generally helpful advice, yeah, but completely oblivious to context. There is more than one type of writer's block and learning to identify which kind prevents people from spinning their wheels. His is currently due to anxiety, most likely brought on by chemical withdrawal, so the way to unblock it is to take care of his mental health. Some writer's block requires you to put your bum in the seat, others require you to go for a jog. Actually, most writer's block requires you to do the latter before the former: back up, take a deep breath, and gain some perspective before trying to diagnose writing problems. The advice you offered comes if he's still blocked after he's straightened his head out. I'll give you that. I Just want to set him straight. And yes, I'm being pissy about it because I just dealt with quitting smoking myself and don't want to see this guy running down a blind alley.
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Jul 22, 2013 06:05
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:write a few scenes of your character doing boring/unimportant poo poo. Write about them going to the store to pick up milk. Write about them delivering a letter or getting into an argument at the bank. I tend to agree more with the link Stuporstar posted: if you're going to sketch scenes (that may or may not have to do with the story itself), do it with interesting scenes. Important scenes. Scenes that give psychological insight into the character him/herself. From the link: quote:To discover the character’s physical nature, I may envision scenes that explore: Those are excellent questions that everyone should understand about their characters. I think you'd get a lot more mileage out of knowing that stuff than you would about them buying milk or going to the bank. If a writer can't answer (via sketching out brief scenes) at least the majority of those questions, then they either don't know their character very well, or else they've got no character at all.
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Jul 22, 2013 06:09
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Stuporstar posted:This may not work for everyone, but if you're stuck, changing your habit might kick you into gear. If you're not getting anything done, what do you have to lose? Thanks for this. Just finished doing some just-woke-up writing and belted out 250 words in just over quarter of an hour. Much better than laboring for hours over one sentence, although the prose quality isn't as high. Story quality is better because there is a story. I guess that's what editing's for. Stuporstar posted:There is more than one type of writer's block and learning to identify which kind prevents people from spinning their wheels. His is currently due to anxiety, most likely brought on by chemical withdrawal, so the way to unblock it is to take care of his mental health. This is almost but not quite right. My anxiety is down to psychological problems, which I'm seeing a therapist about. Smoking was a coping mechanism which helped me for a while (got me through exam season) but eventually became so much a part of my routine that it didn't work any more. So I quit. Trying to replace my drinking and smoking habits with work and working out. Your advice and the advice from Writing Tools (quoting Brenda Ueland) were the most helpful I've had in forever. "Just write" doesn't help with anxiety. Writing Tools posted:All people who try to write... become anxious, timid, contracted, become perfectionists, so terribly afraid that they may put something down that is not as good as Shakespeare...
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Jul 22, 2013 09:32
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So November is coming up. I know the work NaNoWriMo produces is mostly tripe, and that the whole event seems looked down upon in this thread. On top of that I know I am not a regular poster in this thread, but would anyone be interested in a writing camp style NaNoWriMo thread? I'm wanting to do it like they do the weight loss threads. Where writers from here make a TOXX clause that promises to write X many words before the end of the event, and then we could all critique and help out with whatever each person involved wrote. It could evolve in to a thread not just for general writing advice, but specifically about writing novels. Mrfreezewarning fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 13:58
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Stuporstar posted:Read this right loving now, http://writerunboxed.com/2013/07/19/avoiding-boring-character-biographies/ This is just what I needed, thanks a ton.
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Jul 22, 2013 14:04
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