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Vengeance of Pandas posted:The main difference is they suggest that the death and violence aren't standard procedure for those fictional cops By the fourth movie its reasonably to suggest that it has become a standard procedure.
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Jul 21, 2013 15:33
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Dissapointed Owl posted:Yeah I loved all the scenes of John McClane arresting all those bad guys. The difference being that Dredd is not overstepping his bounds. When McClane does it, you ask questions like "is this legal?" When Dredd does it, it's legal and you know it.
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Jul 21, 2013 17:05
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I watched this again the other day (yes, the picture quality on the PAL disc can be horrific in a few scenes), still love it, still adore that bit at the end with the Chief Judge: "So, what happened in there?" "Drug bust."
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Jul 21, 2013 17:06
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Sentinel Red posted:I watched this again the other day (yes, the picture quality on the PAL disc can be horrific in a few scenes), still love it, still adore that bit at the end with the Chief Judge: Which bring to mind how I love the ending shot for Ma-Ma where you the viewers gets a quick revisit for the different areas of megablock such as the gruesome leftovers from the phone booth trap or the wrecked level from the mini-gun bloodbath. With all the over the top body count it's still a routine law enforcement action at the end of the day.
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Jul 21, 2013 17:57
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Alhazred posted:Its not that hard to root for Dredd. He fight obivous bad guys, he doesn't kill people that didn't try to kill him, he isn't corrupt, incompetent or cruel. He's really not that different from John McClane to use another fictional cop. Let me explain a little further, because Dredd is nothing like John McClane. He's the embodiment of a brutal, totalitarian police force, and different interactions portray him in a very unsympathetic light. I'm thinking of the homeless man and the computer guy in particular, but even his remorselessness when dealing with the conscripted goons. He's doesn't see people who break the law by accident or necessity, and he he is unsympathetic. Compare him getting shot and not even flinching, to McClane walking on glass, and realize these two characters are as far apart as you can possibly get. Other than killing an inhuman number of bad guys at least.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:09
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I think because we never see the Mega City 1 as political state, we can't put Dredd in context for the film. The homeless guy was close but even then Dredd doesn't arrest him on sight. Die Hard, kind of the same. We see John fight obvious villains but we never see the people behind the villains and America.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:16
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Yes Dredd is not a renegade maverick like John McClane or Dirty Harry, he is a stickler for the rules. Unlike McClane, Dredd's brutal methods are completely legal and by the book. People who don't know the source material could be forgiven for assuming that Dredd is summoned to see the Chief Judge because he is in trouble for turning the arrest of three perps into a bloodbath. Your typical 'stupid chief' from a million cop movies that ties the hands of our hero. Instead she respects and trusts him and she is shown to be more willing to bend the rules (giving Anderson a second chance) than Dredd is!
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Jul 21, 2013 22:19
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I've mentioned this before way back when but the origins of Dredd lie in part from Dirty Harry, which itself stems from the fallout of the original US v. Miranda, which created such things as the Miranda doctrine, Miranda warnings, and other basic protections from police abuse. A lot of conservatives at the time and especially later in the 80s said that this was coddling criminals and that we had to let the police and the government 'go rogue' to stop the bad guys no matter the cost. So Dredd is a what-if of a system where every single policeman is always a rogue/loose cannon who gets results and is given complete freedom to do whatever they want to uphold the law. The apparent paradox of a cowboy rebel cop given official sanction to be a rebel (and thus is not actually a rebel anymore but merely a very brutal arm of government) is one inherent to the actual 80s ideal, which arguably continues to this day. Also early John McClane was definitely on the opposite end of extremely human, long-suffering blue-collar hero who's good at kicking peoples' asses and pretty bad at basically everything else (i.e. normal life) because of his blue-collar nature, which makes everyone from the various bosses to his own wife mostly underestimate and/or ignore him. Later John McClane, though, eventually just turns into a generic jaded action hero.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:23
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So 2000AD is officially backing the MAKE A DREDD SEQUEL Facebook page. They have a petition page set up right here that I assume they are going to send to Lionsgate/DNA films: http://2000adonline.us5.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=a6e40236aa24d482cfff600d2&id=62906ebdcc Let's get this done. (Note: You need to click a confirmation link in your email when you sign up)
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Jul 21, 2013 22:50
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Going back to the wonderfully distinct henchman, on first viewing I didn't really like the gunfights. None of them had that much flair or anything. But it does tie in wonderfully with the idea of Dredd taking their identities. Mama's personal bodyguard gets dropped just as routinely as everyone else Dredd kills.
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Jul 22, 2013 06:40
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marktheando posted:Yes Dredd is not a renegade maverick like John McClane or Dirty Harry, he is a stickler for the rules. Unlike McClane, Dredd's brutal methods are completely legal and by the book.
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Jul 22, 2013 11:20
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Alhazred posted:Yeah, but in the Die Hard movies McClane's brutal method is shown to be effective and everyone who disagree with them is an idiot. You're meant to root for McClane even though he is just as brutal as Dredd. And that is why Dredd is a satire. He's the jackbooted extension of an absolutely fascist system and has the power to gun down anyone he likes so long as he can justify it under the Law, and yet we're meant to root for him.
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Jul 22, 2013 11:35
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The movie isn't just a criticism of Dredd, but also -- I would say even more strongly -- of Anderson. Dredd's morality is horrific and ugly, but internally consistent for the most part. Anderson believes that she wants to help people, but supports the legitimacy of the police system anyways. She's the character with the face, the one the audience is supposed to identify with, and towards the end she does what she thinks is right and assumes that this makes her incompatible with the system -- giving up her dream of being a cop, but also absolving her of the system's brutality. The final joke is that she's not incompatible at all. Her willingness to ignore her misgivings and support the system anyways means that not only does she pass the test, but in fact she is the ideal Judge candidate.
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Jul 22, 2013 12:08
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I think Dredd passes her because Anderson judged and sentenced herself, making her ideologically pure. She's the best candidate to administer the law because she isn't above it.
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Jul 22, 2013 14:05
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John Dough posted:I rewatched the movie recently and caught that the main mercenary Judge's name is Lex. Dredd literally Fought The Law (and lost). Dredd's strict brand of law enforcement needed Anderson's slightly more tolerant approach to get out alive. I'd have to watch it again some time to get more out of it, but there's definitely some subtext going on there. Myrddin_Emrys posted:For those that don't know, Lex is latin for Law. Wow. That adds a whole new layer of coolness, thanks.
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Jul 22, 2013 14:36
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Marketing New Brain posted:Let me explain a little further, because Dredd is nothing like John McClane. He's the embodiment of a brutal, totalitarian police force, and different interactions portray him in a very unsympathetic light. I'm thinking of the homeless man and the computer guy in particular, but even his remorselessness when dealing with the conscripted goons. He's doesn't see people who break the law by accident or necessity, and he he is unsympathetic. Yeah a big part of the Dredd character and also visual design is it's emphasis on dehumanisation such as never removing his helmet  .
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Jul 22, 2013 14:53
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I still have faith that we'll someday get a sequel and that this beautiful motherfucker will appear on screen: - Judge Death / Sidney De'ath   "The crime is life, the sentence is death!"  Edit: Added link. Devour fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 15:15
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Or they could try to keep the story within the realm of non-ridiculousness  edit: haha wow I didn't know anything about the character and looked him up: quote:He is the leader of the Dark Judges, a sinister group of undead law enforcers from the alternate dimension of Deadworld, where all life has been declared a crime since only the living commit crimes 
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Jul 22, 2013 15:45
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peer posted:Or they could try to keep the story within the realm of non-ridiculousness Originally they wanted to do this movie as Dredd vs. Death, as a big weird and trippy adventure, but realized that nobody would know what was going on and also that it would probably cost too much. So they want back to the drawing board and pulled out a super solid, grounded action movie with a consciously limited scope. There was some speculation from the director, etc., that if they got a trilogy, the sequel would be some version of the democracy storyline, maybe with a little cursed earth, and the third would be Dredd vs. Death.
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Jul 22, 2013 15:57
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The original Dark Judges storyline is amazing, and a small blurb from a summary doesn't really do it justice.
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Jul 22, 2013 15:58
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peer posted:Or they could try to keep the story within the realm of non-ridiculousness Dredd is already ridiculous, the Dark Judge arc is brilliant and would be amazing given the filming style they're using.
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Jul 22, 2013 16:02
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peer posted:Or they could try to keep the story within the realm of non-ridiculousness I've never read any of the comics (other than Dredd vs Ronald MacDonald) and that description is the greatest thing I've ever read.
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Jul 22, 2013 16:03
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Cream_Filling posted:So they want back to the drawing board and pulled out a super solid, grounded action movie with a consciously limited scope. Sure, but I think the small scope and almost-realistic setting play a big part in making Dredd a good movie. It's simple to understand for non-comic fans, and doesn't feel too "out there" or weird for casual moviegoers. If you start adding in parallel dimensions and undead judges I think you might alienate everybody but the hardcore fans. To use a dumb analogy, Dredd is like Pitch Black and I worry a sequel with Death would be Chronicles of Riddick. Deakul posted:Dredd is already ridiculous, the Dark Judge arc is brilliant and would be amazing given the filming style they're using. I'm sure Death is a cool character in the comics, but do you really think it'd work in a movie like this? Nothing we saw in Dredd is (too) unbelievable, supernatural or magical. It helps the audience connect with what's going on because the world feels similar to our own. I'm sure they could change the Death character somewhat so he's more believable, but presenting him as "an evil undead judge from an alternate universe" might not work too well.
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Jul 22, 2013 16:12
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peer posted:Sure, but I think the small scope and almost-realistic setting play a big part in making Dredd a good movie. It's simple to understand for non-comic fans, and doesn't feel too "out there" or weird for casual moviegoers. If you start adding in parallel dimensions and undead judges I think you might alienate everybody but the hardcore fans. To use a dumb analogy, Dredd is like Pitch Black and I worry a sequel with Death would be Chronicles of Riddick. I'm sure they'd do a gradual introduction, he was supposed to be in the third movie after all. I could totally see it working.
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Jul 22, 2013 16:15
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Deakul posted:Dredd is already ridiculous, the Dark Judge arc is brilliant and would be amazing given the filming style they're using. More Judge Death pics:  
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Jul 22, 2013 16:17
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You could do a plausible Death story if you focus on the time he spends possesing people, or the suicide cults trying to bring him into the world. A series of apparently unrelated killings, Anderson seeing the skeletal Death himself, or depicting the whole incident as mass psychic phenomenon. I mean, it doesn't have to be a wisecracking lich judge, he could just be a personification of block madness. Basically a sector goes to bedlam, and the craziest offenders all tell the same story, describing Judge Death and how he made them do it. You could even throw some Candyman in there introducing Judge Death as an urban legend. It can be done straight without inter-dimensional silliness, and it can be good.
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Jul 22, 2013 16:32
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moths posted:You could do a plausible Death story if you focus on the time he spends possesing people, or the suicide cults trying to bring him into the world. A series of apparently unrelated killings, Anderson seeing the skeletal Death himself, or depicting the whole incident as mass psychic phenomenon. I mean, it doesn't have to be a wisecracking lich judge, he could just be a personification of block madness. Yeah that actually sounds pretty cool
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Jul 22, 2013 16:34
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peer posted:Or they could try to keep the story within the realm of non-ridiculousness Foolsss! You cannot kill what doesss not live!
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Jul 22, 2013 16:43
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peer posted:I'm sure Death is a cool character in the comics, but do you really think it'd work in a movie like this? Forget the psychic undead foreign dimensions and concentrate on what's interesting: he's just like Dredd. Just as unrelenting and absolute in his brand of Law, just as consistent in dispensing it. He even has fans both in the City and in the Justice Department (because you got to admit, the man makes sense when you think about it).
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Jul 22, 2013 16:51
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peer posted:Sure, but I think the small scope and almost-realistic setting play a big part in making Dredd a good movie. It's simple to understand for non-comic fans, and doesn't feel too "out there" or weird for casual moviegoers. If you start adding in parallel dimensions and undead judges I think you might alienate everybody but the hardcore fans. To use a dumb analogy, Dredd is like Pitch Black and I worry a sequel with Death would be Chronicles of Riddick. Well Chronicles of Riddick owns, and also has Karl Urban. Also I've never read Dredd comics but I think the point of Judge Death is to show the pinnacle of Dredd's facism, so we wonder where the lines truly should be drawn.
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Jul 22, 2013 16:54
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Yeah, was gonna say, Death is really just the endgame of Dredd's judge, jury and executioner bit. With absolute power comes absolute 'You're all guilty of something'.
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Jul 22, 2013 17:04
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moths posted:You could do a plausible Death story if you focus on the time he spends possesing people, or the suicide cults trying to bring him into the world. I wish that instead of reading the comics, I could get them motion-comic'ed, like what they did with Watchmen here: http://www.thewb.com/shows/watchmen-the-complete-motion-comic/chapter-1/3623217a-9341-4129-917e-99770d15c10e That would really make my workdays go faster.
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Jul 22, 2013 17:12
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Death fans should check out 'Batman/Judge Dredd: Judgment on Gotham' if they haven't already. Death and Scarecrow team up to possess a heavy metal band... Amazing art by Simon Bisley as well! I definitely think Death would be perfect for a movie treatment, given how well they pulled off visual effects in Dredd.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:22
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The Heckler posted:Death fans should check out 'Batman/Judge Dredd: Judgment on Gotham' if they haven't already. Death and Scarecrow team up to possess a heavy metal band... Amazing art by Simon Bisley as well! I definitely think Death would be perfect for a movie treatment, given how well they pulled off visual effects in Dredd. The best part about this crossover? It's 100% canon with the other Dredd comics.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:57
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peer posted:
Well, it's not like making the movie more grounded made more people see it. It don't see why it could hurt to go full retard in the sequel.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:02
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Alhazred posted:Well, it's not like making the movie more grounded made more people see it. It don't see why it could hurt to go full retard in the sequel.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:06
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Alhazred posted:Well, it's not like making the movie more grounded made more people see it. It don't see why it could hurt to go full retard in the sequel. The disc sales were great though. I would not be shocked if the box office was pretty much all due to people thinking it was a sequel to the Stallone movie - maybe that association had been partly eroded by the time of the disc release?
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Jul 22, 2013 21:11
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BreakAtmo posted:The disc sales were great though. I would not be shocked if the box office was pretty much all due to people thinking it was a sequel to the Stallone movie - maybe that association had been partly eroded by the time of the disc release? Oh it's like a new movie or something. Who gives a crap, it's got that Stallone stink all over it. *you or someone you know randomly watch it on a lark*  You tell everyone that it's got nothing to do with the 90's version and to pretend that the one with Stallone and Dredd never occupied the same space in your mind.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:15
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Why's everyone hate on the Stallone Dredd anyway? It doesn't have the 3 seashells but it does have Cursed Earth Pizza, and THE LAW. Also that kickass ABC robot.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:33
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KoRMaK posted:Not in the theater, but it's why it has been killing in home sales. I don't think it being 'grounded' had anything to do with it. It being a really good movie and people realizing it after the fact (like, say...Firefly) is what happened here. The Stallone stigma and 3D marketing is likely what hurt the movie in theaters.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:34
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