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Verviticus posted:edit: is there something I'm missing about Neuschwanstein? It seems completely ridiculous if you have even a slight tech/production lead. Is it some sort of trap where I'm committing too many hammers for the benefit and it just doesn't appear that way? Neuschwanstein is awesome and it's even better because the AI is dumb and either doesn't have enough good cities near mountains to build it or just ignores it for some reason, so you don't have to rush to get it like say the Forbidden Palace. By contrast, the Red Fort usually gets built before I even have the requisite tech (Metallurgy) researched.
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Jul 23, 2013 01:33
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Icon Of Sin posted:Is there any chance of this going on sale during the Steam summer sale? Or did I miss it already? Um, it did go on sale, but the Summer Sale is already over 
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Jul 23, 2013 01:34
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Verviticus posted:edit: I see people talking about how nations have -happiness modifiers based on their tourism and ideology - how do I find this info? It's in the tourism screen under "Cultural victory"
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Jul 23, 2013 01:35
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Pretty much. Unless you are Korea, then you may want to use the improvements longer since they get an additional +2. For engineers, I normally always use the tile improvements unless I need a wonder RIGHT NOW. Science is as you said, tile improvements early and burn for tech later. I don't think I have ever placed a tile improvement from great merchants or prophets though. And not really a tile improvement, but I always burn great writers for more culture right away. Gotta get all those policies. Political treatises are generally considered a bad thing to do unless you really have a specific policy you're rushing or if it's the late game. Otherwise the great works are way more worthwhile in both the long and short term. Long term because of just more culture overall for the early game ones (although definitely not mid to late game ones) and also for the tourism, which will really pay off in the late game when you're dealing with ideological pressures. Short term because placing a great work in a city is actually counted for that city's cultural border growth. So it's smart to build amphitheaters and shift your great works around to places where it's important to do fast border growth.
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Jul 23, 2013 01:41
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Political treatises are generally considered a bad thing to do unless you really have a specific policy you're rushing or if it's the late game. Otherwise the great works are way more worthwhile in both the long and short term. Long term because of just more culture overall for the early game ones (although definitely not mid to late game ones) and also for the tourism, which will really pay off in the late game when you're dealing with ideological pressures. Short term because placing a great work in a city is actually counted for that city's cultural border growth. So it's smart to build amphitheaters and shift your great works around to places where it's important to do fast border growth. I thought tourism was irrelevant for your own cultural defence - that is, if you aren't aiming to make them unhappy, you can just focus on your own culture and be happy. I've always just written treatises because 2c/t per turn is like 300 of each by the time the game is over but I can get 700 right now.
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Jul 23, 2013 01:43
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Verviticus posted:I thought tourism was irrelevant for your own cultural defence - that is, if you aren't aiming to make them unhappy, you can just focus on your own culture and be happy. I thought ideological unhappiness is based on the ratio of cultural penetration (heh) between two cultures, so both civ's tourism and culture are important.
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Jul 23, 2013 01:45
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eXXon posted:I thought ideological unhappiness is based on the ratio of cultural penetration (heh) between two cultures, so both civ's tourism and culture are important. Yup. This post is from a bit back in the thread but it's a great description: Gully Foyle posted:So the way it works is that there are five levels of tourism influence (based on your tourism v. their culture) as below.
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Jul 23, 2013 01:47
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Verviticus posted:It doesn't matter at all, though. It's a minor penalty that goes away really quickly. It's about as strong as the embassy bonus. Neuschwanstein is completely obscene if you can afford to drop castles everywhere. If you can't, and you're frequently struggling to keep up with buildings in all your cities, it's a poor investment because Castles will only matter to you if you're being attacked a lot. Marketing New Brain posted:Gandhi ... hate warmongers 
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Jul 23, 2013 01:48
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Right - so if I'm never going to get enough tourism to get to level 1 because I'm not really looking to get tourism, then 0 tourism and all culture is better than half/half unless I can somehow calculate the breakpoint of my ally's tourism + mine and have it put me over the top, which is pretty unlikely. Is that not right?
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Jul 23, 2013 01:49
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Verviticus posted:I thought tourism was irrelevant for your own cultural defence - that is, if you aren't aiming to make them unhappy, you can just focus on your own culture and be happy. Tourism is used in defense, yeah. You CAN ignore tourism if you just super push culture because then it means people can barely get any influence on you. But basically, the amount of ideological influence points you receive (visible on the Culture Victory screen) is calculated based on the difference of your influence level on them versus their influence level on you. So if you're just exotic to them but they're Popular to you, you'll receive two influence points which can create dissidents in your territory. If multiple civs of opposing ideology are like this, you're in for a bad time. Pumping your culture so you become just as influential as they are is as much of a defense as raw culture. Also there are modifiers to consider. Hotels, Airports, and the National Visitor Center adds great work culture to tourism output. There's a social policy that gives great works 3 culture instead of 2. And my first couple great writers usually can only give me like 150 or 200 culture or so, which I figure I should just do great works. Pretty quickly, the lump sum culture definitely outweighs the great works, but I think the tourism is worth it, as is the border growth. The border growth is especially important. If you're lacking great works, it can be very hard to grow your borders since the base culture of all culture buildings have been reduced by a lot. Verviticus posted:Right - so if I'm never going to get enough tourism to get to level 1 because I'm not really looking to get tourism, then 0 tourism and all culture is better than half/half unless I can somehow calculate the breakpoint of my ally's tourism + mine and have it put me over the top, which is pretty unlikely. Maybe? I don't know the math. It's an irrelevant scenario though because you aren't sacrificing culture for tourism on a 1:1 ratio. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 01:51
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Yeah, that makes sense. I think my first writer comes around the industrial era. I guess if you're getting them as soon as you can the works are more important. I tend to focus entirely on artists if I'm building any of those and just convert them into golden ages, which give me enough culture. If I'm at all lucky, religion gets me religious buildings that are worth something as well. On immortal, turn 249, the only civ that's Exotic with me is the other order guy who is my next door neighbour and has been open borders friendship buddies with me since turn 30 or so. Verviticus fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 01:53
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So am I right in thinking that no matter what, you want sea trade routes rather than land routes whenever possible? Not only are they more lucrative, they tend to be easier to protect as there are usually like 3 or 4 times the number of barbarian land units than there are sea ones. Maybe they should make privateers capable of pillaging trade routes even when not at war, since it seems way too easy to get them set up, put a couple of watchdog sea units along the route and you basically forget about it until it prompts you for a new route.
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Jul 23, 2013 01:58
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Icon Of Sin posted:Is there any chance of this going on sale during the Steam summer sale? Or did I miss it already? Unfortunately the steam sale ended today. You might have luck checking Amazon or Green Man Gaming though!
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Jul 23, 2013 02:00
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Away all Goats posted:So am I right in thinking that no matter what, you want sea trade routes rather than land routes whenever possible? Not only are they more lucrative, they tend to be easier to protect as there are usually like 3 or 4 times the number of barbarian land units than there are sea ones. I never actually have sea routes that give me significantly more gold than my land routes. They always have like, two fish, pearls and a wheat or something and their base gold is practically nothing because they have no loving luxury resources. Meanwhile my third city has three or four and dwarfs everywhere else in my empire.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:04
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Away all Goats posted:So am I right in thinking that no matter what, you want sea trade routes rather than land routes whenever possible? Not only are they more lucrative, they tend to be easier to protect as there are usually like 3 or 4 times the number of barbarian land units than there are sea ones. Raging barbarians makes sea routes dangerous as all get-out, but I think on normal settings you're probably right. I would love to see a throwback to the Privateers of Civ 4 - One time I had a single Privateer blockading my vassal state's capital for no reason other than me being a dick, and he just straight-up murdered anything that tried to remove him until he fell like two tech levels behind.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:04
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Verviticus posted:Yeah, that makes sense. I think my first writer comes around the industrial era. I guess if you're getting them as soon as you can the works are more important. Just wondering, is this on quick speed? On standard, at around 250 or so, tourism isn't going to be that strong for anyone. It isn't until all the multipliers kick in that tourism gets real powerful. The AI is pretty bad at managing that, though. They waste early great musicians on concert tours. I've seen an AI do a concert tour on me for 100 tourism. I'm sure they do lots of other nonsensical stuff I can't see with their great artists and writers. Can't say I ever used your strategy. I've had a lot of success (on Emperor, not immortal) doing loads of early great works and by the mid game I can usually do a social policy every 10 turns on Standard, which seems fairly fast to me. And then my tourism output becomes enough to get some people to suffer heavy happiness penalties and sometimes switch ideologies, even if I'm not heavily focusing on culture/tourism or anything. Again, I think the AI is just really bad at managing that side of the game so it's really easy to top them on that front. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 02:06
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Just wondering, is this on quick speed? On standard, at around 250 or so, tourism isn't going to be that strong for anyone. It isn't until all the multipliers kick in that tourism gets real powerful. The AI is pretty bad at managing that, though. They waste early great musicians on concert tours. I've seen an AI do a concert tour on me for 100 tourism. I'm sure they do lots of other nonsensical stuff I can't see with their great artists and writers. Nah, it's standard. Just for reference, I got a writer and I'd get 1600 culture to consume him - about 2/3 a policy. Seems like it's about 8 turns worth of culture. This is my second writer - I think the first one was at the start of industrial (I'm entering modern in a few turns)
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Jul 23, 2013 02:13
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Can't say I ever used your strategy. I've had a lot of success (on Emperor, not immortal) doing loads of early great works and by the mid game I can usually do a social policy every 10 turns on Standard, which seems fairly fast to me. And then my tourism output becomes enough to get some people to suffer heavy happiness penalties and sometimes switch ideologies, even if I'm not heavily focusing on culture/tourism or anything. Again, I think the AI is just really bad at managing that side of the game so it's really easy to top them on that front. I have varying levels of success on immortal. It always just gets to that point where it's like - I could get Drama but I could get commerce instead. I could make a writer's guild or I could make Machu Picchu. I could make writers or I could make a caravan etc... I should play a game where I just ignore some of these things, ignore the bottom half of the tree and play a heavy culture setup.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:17
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Is it recommended to play this game with the Quick setting to speed everything up? Normal just seems like it's taking a very long time, even in a small game.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:49
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  Additionally, directly east of some cows in the middle are the ruins of 2 cities.  e: Assyria has ceased to exist 3 turns later. Kalsco fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 02:54
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Jon Irenicus posted:Is it recommended to play this game with the Quick setting to speed everything up? Normal just seems like it's taking a very long time, even in a small game. It's up to you. Some like playing games of civ5 they can finish in one night, some like to take up to a week for their game to finish. Personally I can't stand starting a war with Swordsmen and ending it with Riflemen, so I tend to play on Epic and Marathon.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:58
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The warmonger penalty does go away eventually, but it takes a veeery long time. But if you're just taking one city, it's not going to be a big deal at all and most civs won't give a gently caress. If you're worried about a particular civ caring, try to bribe them into war first. It seems that the backstab penalty also decays over time. Austria and Poland got along fine a few hundred turns after the former DoW'ed the latter for settling on their continent even though they still had a DoF. Maybe Poland is just very forgiving, though. Oh, and with these diplo changes, for the record? BNW has usurped BTS in my book, Civ 5 is the best Civ. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 03:09
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So uh, this is the first time I have ever actually considered needing to nuke the AI to stop them from winning the game, how hosed would I be diplomatically if I nuked a guy thats basically friendly with everyone except my little Order Bloc?
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Jul 23, 2013 03:18
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If you get a request from a civ to declare war together against a third civ, do you get the warmonger penalty if you accept it? Or is that basically a license to grab some territory in a war without being considered a bad guy? I don't mind that there's a penalty for being an aggressor, I just wish the causes and effects of it were a little more transparent.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:20
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The White Dragon posted:Yeah, I noticed last night that it decays now for civs that tolerate warmongers. It's a great (and necessary) change. Declaring war on Japan twice took about 300 turns on Marathon to disappear from Assyria and Babylon. Theoretically I agree but in practice I'm finding the diplomacy penalties really really annoying. I suspect I just haven't learned how to adapt my playstyle, mostly because I tend to play on huge maps. I could be wrong, but it seems like the AI is a lot more sensitive to individual battles, and there's either some sort of small chance of getting a warmonger label every fight or it's every time you take a city, even if the other guy declared war on you. Upshot of things is that playing on giant-sized earth maps I seem to get heavily penalized just for fighting back and winning when I get attacked, and it's prohibitively difficult to get ahead without getting hit by round-robin denunciations. I feel like I need a Guide to Diplomacy or something. My old strategy of "wait till I get attacked, then conquer everything the aggressor owned" isn't working. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 03:30
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gently caress it, Morocco has pushed me too far, his autocratic reign over my former city states will not stand! Someone get me some carriers for my nukes. 
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Jul 23, 2013 03:39
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A Tartan Tory posted:So uh, this is the first time I have ever actually considered needing to nuke the AI to stop them from winning the game, how hosed would I be diplomatically if I nuked a guy thats basically friendly with everyone except my little Order Bloc? Nuking in general gets people super mad at you. If the world is best buds with the guy, that will just compound the issue. If the civ is about to win the game, then you don't have much choice than to make the entire world your enemy. Get more nukes.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:39
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Yeah what is up with the denunciations? My play style is non-aggressive, I do my thing over here I let everyone else do there thing over there and as long as no one tries to cross any lines we all tend to get along fine. What annoys me though is randomly around the start of the mid game someone will denounce me out of the blue and then it's usually echoed by 2-3 other races for no drat reason. Unless I am playing like a warmonger I don't see how I could possibly be stepping on anyone's toes.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:43
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Seemenaked posted:Yeah what is up with the denunciations? My play style is non-aggressive, I do my thing over here I let everyone else do there thing over there and as long as no one tries to cross any lines we all tend to get along fine. What annoys me though is randomly around the start of the mid game someone will denounce me out of the blue and then it's usually echoed by 2-3 other races for no drat reason. Unless I am playing like a warmonger I don't see how I could possibly be stepping on anyone's toes. Are you trying to be friendly with City states? Are you spreading religion? These are the two biggest causes of problems when I try to play pacifist games. City states are especially an issue since sometimes you inadvertently complete quests and this gets other civs made at you if they were trying to buddy up with the CS.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:45
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Even though he's the only other civ who chose Freedom, I'm in the middle of an unprovoked war with Venice so that I can get my culture victory ended sooner. Hopefully once I take his capital and plunder his GWs I can finally get that tooltip to say something under 1,000 turns to a culture victory over him. It's 1944 and my Brazilian unique units are helping things along.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:46
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:It's 1944 and my Brazilian unique units are helping things along. I just want to play a game as Persia where a Militaristic City State has Pracinhas. 
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Jul 23, 2013 03:53
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Ainsley McTree posted:If you really want to fight a war with someone, but don't want the warmonger penalty, is there any way to sort of trick them into attacking you first, or some other sneaky way to fight them without suffering a penalty? Like if I'm trying to play nice and diplomatically, but some jerk civ settled a spot that I really need, or I want their coal, or something like that where I just need to start this one tiny little war before I go back to playing nice, and for the life of me the other guy won't start it. There are a lot things you can do to incite a war. Denounce, demand gold/resources, demand they stop settling near you, demand they stop spreading their religion, demand they stop spying on you, get caught spying on them, vote against their proposals in the World Congress, propose measures that hurt them, steal their city state allies, denounce their friends. Unless your military can wipe theirs off the face of the planet and they know it, you can probably get them to declare on you.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:53
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Been playing a lot of Mongolia lately, after listening to all those Hardcore Histories on them. It's really weird for me, because I'm usually as passive and buildery as can be in these games. Utterly in love with the mongols though, I just struggle with getting a decent religion up and going before everyone takes all the good stuff, and I feel like I need a decent religion to be able to conquer like I want to. Just started up a new game however, and...
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Jul 23, 2013 04:04
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eXXon posted:Neuschwanstein is awesome and it's even better because the AI is dumb and either doesn't have enough good cities near mountains to build it or just ignores it for some reason, so you don't have to rush to get it like say the Forbidden Palace. Alhambra is one of my favorite wonders in the game and I almost never even have the opportunity to start building it before some AI rear end in a top hat finishes the drat thing.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:08
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A few misc. questions: - What's best practice for plopping starter settler? Move him around some or plop right where he starts? - Is there a go to starting build order? - Why can I not buy some hexes around my borders? I have one city where I can only expand into the useless water tiles. - The purple outlined hexes showing next border growth are random? There might be three but only one is picked, but is there a way to change it? Does my city AI know what to do? - Do you guys pick a victory plan before playing and pick a suitable civ? Another thing is that I don't understand how you play this multiplayer.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:12
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Verviticus posted:I never actually have sea routes that give me significantly more gold than my land routes. They always have like, two fish, pearls and a wheat or something and their base gold is practically nothing because they have no loving luxury resources. About that, how exactly do resources interact with trade routes? As far as I can tell, it tallies up all luxury and strategic resources in a 3-tile radius of the original city, then compares that list to the destination city, and increases the value of the trade route for each resource either city has that the other one doesn't. Is that about right? And is the effect big enough to be worth worry9ing about?
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Jul 23, 2013 04:17
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KingKapalone posted:A few misc. questions: -Depends on what the environment is like. If you're new you should usually just plop him down where you start since it's rarely godawful. Moving can be good, but you have to know what to look for. -Unless you're playing Archipelago maps or something, you should usually start with a scout. After that you should get a monument unless you're going Tradition, then you can skip it for a worker or another scout. From there you really just want to get a library up ASAP and maybe a granary. It gets more flexible from there. -You can buy hexes up to 3 away from your capital, no farther. As long as someone else doesn't own a tile, you can purchase it. -Yes, the purple hexes indicate that one of those tiles will be incorporated at random next. The AI usually works toward luxuries and other places of interest, but it's not always reliable. I don't think you can change it. -I usually pick a civ and corresponding map, not necessarily a victory condition unless it's something very clear like Brazil/Culture or Korea/Science. TheGame fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 04:23
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Ruder posted:Been playing a lot of Mongolia lately, after listening to all those Hardcore Histories on them. It's really weird for me, because I'm usually as passive and buildery as can be in these games. Utterly in love with the mongols though, I just struggle with getting a decent religion up and going before everyone takes all the good stuff, and I feel like I need a decent religion to be able to conquer like I want to. Just started up a new game however, and... Hate to quote myself, but I'm really torn on what to go social policy wise this game, I'd like to hear what some other people think. I'm obviously going to be super aggressive once I hit chivalry, but I doubt that'll extend into conquering the other continent or anything. Tradition is my choice in 99% of games, and feels like far and away the strongest to me. It's hard to not use it. However, liberty would get a city over to Mount Sinai sooner, and the extra production and worker would make it a stronger city faster. In addition the free great person would easily guarantee me Petra in the city of my choosing, and I'd actually imagine that the +happiness for city connections might be substantial if I do end up owning the entire continent, or even most of it. Assuming I get desert folklore, I won't really need the extra faith and such from piety, the only reason it tempts me is a better shot at getting the reformation beliefs for science buildings with faith, or great people with faith. Thoughts?
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Jul 23, 2013 04:34
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Ainsley McTree posted:If you get a request from a civ to declare war together against a third civ, do you get the warmonger penalty if you accept it? Or is that basically a license to grab some territory in a war without being considered a bad guy? I'm fairly certain you may still get warmonger penalties with other civs, but you will get a diplomatic boost with the civ who asked you to go to war. 'Fought against a common enemy' or something like that, so it's important to weigh that in the diplomatic decision. The warmonger thing is ridiculosuly easy to get, but how the other civs feel about you and the civ you're at war with does play into whether you get it to some degree. No one complained in my last game when I sneak attacked Alexander because literally everyone hated him. But speaking of war, I really wish there were diplomacy options for "I'm being attacked, please send troops". Friendships and joint wars would feel a lot more meaningful if it meant they would very directly back you up in a conflict. As it is, if you can convince them to go to war period, they're probably just going to march on the closest city instead of the horde of Impi around your capital, if they do anything at all. Hell it could even work off the gifting mechanic, where you trade away some luxuries and gpt and 3 turns later some muskets show up in your borders.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:35
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TheGame posted:From there you really just want to get a library up ASAP and maybe a granary. It gets more flexible from there. How SAP are we talking here exactly? Like, "beeline writing from the start and drop what you're doing to build a library as soon as it's available" ASAP, or should you focus on other, more basic things first? I tried beelining once but looked at all those unimproved luxuries around my capital and my total lack of archers to defend myself with and got uncomfortable. I usually don't build the library right away, but maybe I only get away with it because I play on Prince.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:40
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