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AdmiralViscen posted:What percentage of Americans do you think are travelling abroad and renting a car? Even a European cruise is outside of the scope of the budgets of most Americans. You are describing a niche of a niche. Not just budgets, but vacation time as well. As recently as 1989, under 3% of Americans even held a passport. About 33% do now, but that's mainly because of increased travel restrictions to Canada and Mexico.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:14
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I never understood what people could possibly be doing to these rental cars that's so bad. Is it mostly just abuse of the interior, because I don't see how the average person could cause undue wear on the drivetrain components.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:21
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To add to rental chat, in the States at least most cars you see in fleets, if they even have a manual available at all it's an added-cost option from the factory. Autos are so ubiquitous that economies of scale kick in and make them significantly cheaper; you'll pay a premium here if you want the "enthusiast experience." Basically we're completely backward to the rest of the world; a diesel 5-speed compact can cost upwards of $10 grand more than the entry-level gas-powered automatic.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:29
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Tacier posted:I never understood what people could possibly be doing to these rental cars that's so bad. Is it mostly just abuse of the interior, because I don't see how the average person could cause undue wear on the drivetrain components. I"m pretty sure there was a goon that took a Corolla off-roading in Alaska because it was rented.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:30
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Tacier posted:I never understood what people could possibly be doing to these rental cars that's so bad. Is it mostly just abuse of the interior, because I don't see how the average person could cause undue wear on the drivetrain components. It's amazing what people will do when you hand them a car where they can cause damage with basically no consequences. Most of what I've seen is exterior damage (scrapes, busted mirrors from bad parking, curb hits, broken-feeling suspension, kick marks in doors, dents in hatches from closing them on cargo, etc) but I suspect your average Aveo can take quite a few neutral drops before the damage catches up with the stoned lot attendant. I've seen quite a few cars on rental auctions with bald drive tires, for one thing.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:31
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Tacier posted:I never understood what people could possibly be doing to these rental cars that's so bad. Is it mostly just abuse of the interior, because I don't see how the average person could cause undue wear on the drivetrain components. I've seen people give zero shits about a rental car. I'm talking brakestand wheelspin, driving up and down curbs, and certainly not avoiding monster potholes like you would do in a car you own. The only rental car that I've ever seen well-kept at 15k miles was a 350Z that I got a free upgrade to on a trip a while ago.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:31
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Well, I did redline a rental Skoda Octavia on the autobahn on my last trip but but otherwise treated it as well as my own car. I suppose you can also do clutch dump launches, not slow down for speed bumps, and generally just not care if you blow up the engine. In my experience the cars were usually in pretty decent condition, but they all seem to have 10-30k km which is like 1/10 of what my cars have while also not showing much signs of abuse.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:40
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Fucknag posted:To add to rental chat, in the States at least most cars you see in fleets, if they even have a manual available at all it's an added-cost option from the factory. Autos are so ubiquitous that economies of scale kick in and make them significantly cheaper; you'll pay a premium here if you want the "enthusiast experience." Really? I was curious what the difference was in Canada, and the difference between a base-model Hyundai Accent hatch and the least-equipped automatic model is $3200 going by MSRP, with the base model coming in at $13,700. That's more than a 20% increase. I get that there are disadvantages to having manual transmissions in a rental fleet, but I still think that's a pretty significant difference. If I want to rent a nice car, I'll pay for it. If I just need to get from point A to point B, I'm going to decide based on cost. AdmiralViscen posted:What percentage of Americans do you think are travelling abroad and renting a car? Even a European cruise is outside of the scope of the budgets of most Americans. You are describing a niche of a niche. I had no idea it was so rare. Travelling abroad (albeit usually to the Caribbean or Mexico, but Europe is far from uncommon, and even a fair number of people go to Asia) is reasonably common in Canada, even for people with fairly lovely, low-paying jobs.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:22
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This is how most rental cars are treated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBxNGSBBBu0&t=27s
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Jul 23, 2013 18:53
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PT6A posted:Really? I was curious what the difference was in Canada, and the difference between a base-model Hyundai Accent hatch and the least-equipped automatic model is $3200 going by MSRP, with the base model coming in at $13,700. That's more than a 20% increase. I get that there are disadvantages to having manual transmissions in a rental fleet, but I still think that's a pretty significant difference. If I want to rent a nice car, I'll pay for it. If I just need to get from point A to point B, I'm going to decide based on cost. Federal minimum wage in the US is 7.25 an hour. Let that sink in for a second. Here's the infamous "McDonald's budget" that's been floating around:  Note "Income (2nd job)". It's ASSUMED that you have a second job if you're working minimum wage in the US, minimum wage is not a living wage. Okay, note the "monthly spending money", $800. You see what's missing from "monthly expenses"? Things like food. Gas for the car that was budgeted for. Toiletries and household items. And good luck getting health insurance for $20/mo. How on earth is someone going to finance a trip anywhere when you're quite literally living paycheck to paycheck?
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Jul 23, 2013 20:18
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Yes because 100% of the working population in the US is doing nothing but working minimum wage jobs at McDonalds. This is AI, pretty much everyone posting here has somehow found enough disposable income to sink way more money than even a Euro vacation would cost on a car/cars/other toys of questionable merit. This is a dumb derail.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:38
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Weinertron posted:I've seen people give zero shits about a rental car. I'm talking brakestand wheelspin, driving up and down curbs, and certainly not avoiding monster potholes like you would do in a car you own. The only rental car that I've ever seen well-kept at 15k miles was a 350Z that I got a free upgrade to on a trip a while ago. The only time I've even tried that was a Camaro with an automatic gearbox (what else??) and it wouldn't rev above 3000 rpm in neutral or if your foot was on the brake as well as the accelerator.  I drive rental cars like I drive my cars usually.
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Jul 23, 2013 20:45
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Snowdens Secret posted:Yes because 100% of the working population in the US is doing nothing but working minimum wage jobs at McDonalds. This is AI, pretty much everyone posting here has somehow found enough disposable income to sink way more money than even a Euro vacation would cost on a car/cars/other toys of questionable merit. This is a dumb derail. And in any case, anyone who can afford to take a trip to another continent is probably not going to be seeking out the absolute cheapest car available to rent. Especially if they're not already familiar with manual shifting (which it appears not a lot of Americans are these days).
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Jul 23, 2013 21:12
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Tacier posted:I never understood what people could possibly be doing to these rental cars that's so bad. Is it mostly just abuse of the interior, because I don't see how the average person could cause undue wear on the drivetrain components. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S7AyiVfNdA drgitlin posted:Yes but I'm not talking about how beat up it was, but how it was specced, because VikingSkull says you can only compare highly specced cars, or something. All I'm saying is rental cars are garbage across the board until you pony up extra to get in the luxury models. It's perfect business sense. On the one hand they buy a poo poo ton of stripper models which are assembled at the factory to rental spec with parts that aren't on retail models, and if you rent a lot and know the cars are poo poo they get you to pay extra for a BMW or whatever. Comparing rental cars to anything is dumb because they often aren't built the same way as retail cars. A rental Malibu might be poo poo, and a retail Malibu might be poo poo, too, but saying a car model is poo poo based on just rental experience is a flawed way to do it. Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 21:31
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Fucknag posted:To add to rental chat, in the States at least most cars you see in fleets, if they even have a manual available at all it's an added-cost option from the factory. That depends on the car. Cheap economy "world" cars still charge a premium to get an automatic, as do many performance cars. BMW offers manuals as a no cost upgrade on the one and three series. I can't think of any vehicles that specifically charge more for an MT, but I know a few require you to add on expensive performance packages for them. I guess this is a good segue into this disappointing post.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:50
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I've never had the pleasure of renting a car before, got one for 2 weeks from now for a week and 2400km round trip from Montreal to PEI. Feels like I'm going to get very well acquainted with my "Toyota Corolla or similar." I'm sure it'll be a complete pig, I just want it to be good on gas.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:51
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I had a rental Versa sedan and it was a loving blast. The engine actually enjoyed to rev, so I just gunned it from every stop light. It was a little scary the first few times I took a corner though; a WRX on summer tires has a tad bit more traction than a rental on 175 series R14s
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Jul 23, 2013 21:54
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Also for the dude being all Manual Windows and Non-Electronic Door Locks, the negligible differential in cost between the manual and electronic versions of those things is absolutely annihilated by the economies of scale and the reduction of inventory proliferation. Plus, the way that rental companies finance their fleets means that that small savings that would possibly appeal to the most hardcore consumer would be extremely negligible.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:16
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Also for the dude being all Manual Windows and Non-Electronic Door Locks, the negligible differential in cost between the manual and electronic versions of those things is absolutely annihilated by the economies of scale and the reduction of inventory proliferation. Plus, the way that rental companies finance their fleets means that that small savings that would possibly appeal to the most hardcore consumer would be extremely negligible. I think there's still anomalies. As recently as 2009 I rented a little shitbox Kia in Utah and it had manual windows, manual locks, manual mirrors... and satellite radio. 
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Jul 23, 2013 23:25
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Also for the dude being all Manual Windows and Non-Electronic Door Locks, the negligible differential in cost between the manual and electronic versions of those things is absolutely annihilated by the economies of scale and the reduction of inventory proliferation. Plus, the way that rental companies finance their fleets means that that small savings that would possibly appeal to the most hardcore consumer would be extremely negligible. Yeah, I was probably off on the savings afforded by manual door locks and windows. Still, I think manual transmissions in the absolute lowest-cost option could possibly be worthwhile. I'm probably wrong about that too, though.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:34
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IOwnCalculus posted:I think there's still anomalies. As recently as 2009 I rented a little shitbox Kia in Utah and it had manual windows, manual locks, manual mirrors... and satellite radio. I wouldn't be surprised if Sirius XM subsidized satellite radio installs and that the hardware was cheap enough to make it perversely more expensive to have a no-satellite option. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Also for the dude being all Manual Windows and Non-Electronic Door Locks, the negligible differential in cost between the manual and electronic versions of those things is absolutely annihilated by the economies of scale and the reduction of inventory proliferation. Plus, the way that rental companies finance their fleets means that that small savings that would possibly appeal to the most hardcore consumer would be extremely negligible. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/03/avoidable-contact-airbags-killed-the-am-radio-star/ quote:Why did power windows cost more than roll-up windows in 1973? It’s easy to understand; it took a man, or a team of men, earning the aforementioned living wage, longer to build, assemble, and install power window components. In 2009, the whole deal is “subbed out” to a supplier who produces snap-in power window assemblies. It’s usually cheaper to get 100,000 power window assemblies than it is to get 50,000 roll-up assemblies and 50,000 power assemblies, plus you don’t have to train the $12/hour temps who (don’t tell anyone!) actually do a lot of “low-skill” jobs on American assembly lines how to install two different kinds of window assemblies. The door can be made simpler because it doesn’t have to accommodate two different kinds of controls, which leads to more volume discounts, and so on. Options and choices during manufacturing cost money, and they might cost more money than the extra sales you could get with a "no A/C" or "armstrong windows" build.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:34
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DoesNotCompute posted:I've never had the pleasure of renting a car before, got one for 2 weeks from now for a week and 2400km round trip from Montreal to PEI. Feels like I'm going to get very well acquainted with my "Toyota Corolla or similar." I'm sure it'll be a complete pig, I just want it to be good on gas. You do need to watch out with some companies in the USA - my brother rented a 'Mazda 6 or similar' but got a 'free upgrade' to some sort of horrible Ford SUV.
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Jul 23, 2013 23:44
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IOwnCalculus posted:I think there's still anomalies. As recently as 2009 I rented a little shitbox Kia in Utah and it had manual windows, manual locks, manual mirrors... and satellite radio. Weird enough, one time I was getting a small rental car from Enterprise for the weekend. Turns out they ran out of small cars so I wound up with a fully-loaded F-150 with only 39 miles on it. For the price of the small car. The truck was really nice and it made me want one. The only problem is the city I was using it in had some narrow-rear end roads and I felt like I was driving a tank down a bike path.
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Jul 24, 2013 00:16
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dissss posted:You do need to watch out with some companies in the USA - my brother rented a 'Mazda 6 or similar' but got a 'free upgrade' to some sort of horrible Ford SUV. That free upgrade to a 350Z I mentioned came from an originally reserved "Hyundai Accent or Similar". I have no idea what the gently caress happened, but I was happy.
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Jul 24, 2013 00:29
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Snowdens Secret posted:Yes because 100% of the working population in the US is doing nothing but working minimum wage jobs at McDonalds. This is AI, pretty much everyone posting here has somehow found enough disposable income to sink way more money than even a Euro vacation would cost on a car/cars/other toys of questionable merit. This is a dumb derail. Don't be willfully dense. Wage stagnation has been a serious problem in the US, even outside of the fact that the minimum wage is totally unlivable. Someone asked a question about tourism, and the fact that US wages have been in a death spiral for the past several decades is a serious answer.
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Jul 24, 2013 01:09
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MikeyTsi posted:Don't be willfully dense. Wage stagnation has been a serious problem in the US, even outside of the fact that the minimum wage is totally unlivable. Someone asked a question about tourism, and the fact that US wages have been in a death spiral for the past several decades is a serious answer. I know an easy 100 people with non liberal arts degrees who can't find work and are thankful for their lovely retail jobs. Anything is better than food service.
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Jul 24, 2013 01:11
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Rhyno posted:I know an easy 100 people with non liberal arts degrees who can't find work and are thankful for their lovely retail jobs. Anything is better than food service. And yet even their lovely retail jobs won't let them travel to Europe or Asia on vacation (if they even get vacation days)
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Jul 24, 2013 01:28
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Kenshin posted:And yet even their lovely retail jobs won't let them travel to Europe or Asia on vacation (if they even get vacation days) I was supporting the argument that wages in the USA loving suck. I'm fairly lucky to make what I do in retail with no degree or business college.
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Jul 24, 2013 01:33
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US median household income is higher than just about anywhere, a handful of countries in western europe and australia beat it, not much else... This is also ruining the new car thread
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Jul 24, 2013 01:44
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IOwnCalculus posted:I think there's still anomalies. As recently as 2009 I rented a little shitbox Kia in Utah and it had manual windows, manual locks, manual mirrors... and satellite radio. This goes along with my point that rental fleet orders are often built much differently than retail cars. You'd be hard pressed to find a car like that on a lot, and I doubt you could even special order something like that.
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Jul 24, 2013 02:57
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PT6A posted:Yeah, I was probably off on the savings afforded by manual door locks and windows. Still, I think manual transmissions in the absolute lowest-cost option could possibly be worthwhile. I'm probably wrong about that too, though. Except that anyone who might give a poo poo about the potential savings there could just as easily get a not-so-barebones used car for the same price.
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Jul 24, 2013 03:24
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Sorry to bust up the rental car chat, but I wanted to discuss the BMW i3 briefly, if I could. I saw one futzing around downtown Las Vegas yesterday, specifically at Fremont Street and Maryland Parkway. It had the usual blue swirly camo, but it also had a couple of plaques or whatever affixed to the side that read "Hybrid Vehicle". I'd read over at Autoblog that there was going to be a hybrid version with a 650cc bike engine, but without a timetable for release. If one is being, I assume, hot-weather-tested, I'd wager the hybrid is pretty close to coming out, yeah?
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Jul 24, 2013 03:54
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The electric i3 is slated for second quarter 2014, and I think the hybrid version comes sometime after that. I want to see what the electric range is like on the EPA cycle.
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Jul 24, 2013 05:03
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Awesome new electric cars you say? 
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Jul 24, 2013 05:21
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IOwnCalculus posted:The electric i3 is slated for second quarter 2014, and I think the hybrid version comes sometime after that. "Haha what the gently caress is this they can't possibly be serious?" - My reaction to every new BMW model since the X6. *car is put into production and sold 12 months later* Although admittedly the 6 series Gran Coupe turned out pretty good.
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Jul 24, 2013 05:24
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Devyl posted:Awesome new electric cars you say? When they paint the grilles like that, it looks like it just rolled out of a Maaco.
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Jul 24, 2013 05:59
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Throatwarbler posted:Although admittedly the 6 series Gran Coupe turned out pretty good. The problem with the Gran Coupe is that the 5 series should look that good to begin with.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:09
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I hate to post an article about a new car in this thread and keep it on topic, but I've found a bit of speculation on why the Cruze has been delayed a year: The new Malibu got rushed to market and it showed. So apparently they're trying to not repeat that again and actually make a drat good car this time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FjNaoe070U
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Jul 24, 2013 06:32
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Friar Zucchini posted:I hate to post an article about a new car in this thread and keep it on topic, but I've found a bit of speculation on why the Cruze has been delayed a year: The new Malibu got rushed to market and it showed. So apparently they're trying to not repeat that again and actually make a drat good car this time. They rushed the 2014 pickups to market and it shows, and pickups are their bread and butter. I doubt that's the reason why the cruse is delayed.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:36
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DropShadow posted:When they paint the grilles like that, it looks like it just rolled out of a Maaco. I was thinking the exact same thing.
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