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Been poking my head into emperor more, as I feel like I've gotten a handle on king now. I have to say, higher difficulties are definitely changing my views on wonders. Especially the early wonders, where the AI always seems to have a head start. Once you can close the science gap things can turn around. As much as I love the great library, it is feeling more and more like a 'good loving luck' wonder. It is a different game from prince, where I feel like I can just casually scoop them all up without too much of a fight. If you have the right city for it, Petra feels like the strongest actually attainable wonder from the first two ages. It is just brutally good in a desert city. Desert hills in particular get turned into monster tiles. Not to mention the extra trade route, which is always huge. You even get a free caravan. Even if you just use it as an internal route, that right there can also be a load of food or hammers delivered to the city of your choice. Colossus is I think another really good one, especially if you are positioned well with coastal trade routes. Plus you get the free cargo ship. Just like Petra it is a little situatuational, though given that it doesn't have any tile bonuses I feel Petra is overall a stronger wonder. The tech for colossus is usually not something you beeline too either, which can make it a little awkward. I think I was overvaluing hanging gardens, though I still feel like it is very good. Six food is six food, which means you grow more quickly and can work higher production tiles. The fact that its effect can largely be replicated via an internal trade route (which you can get the slot for via the above two wonders) takes some of the wind out of its sails though. Still, a free garden can't be sneezed at, especially if you don't have the fresh water access to be able to normally build one. The AI does like this one though, so you can't really drag your heels. I've mostly been playing Venice, so the extra trade route wonders are doubly good. It also means I am going tradition, which always makes the hanging gardens tempting.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:07
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What do people mean when they say a city "flips"?
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Jul 24, 2013 06:08
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A Tartan Tory posted:You can Polder flood plains. You'll want to strangle the RNG either way because half of them will have spices or wheat on them. Garbo posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvru5jEQSOg Space Jam can be mixed surprisingly well with way too many songs.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:10
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Ariong posted:What do people mean when they say a city "flips"? When a city 'flips' it changes from one nation to another due to being at -20 happiness or lower.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:20
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A Tartan Tory posted:When a city 'flips' it changes from one nation to another due to being at -20 happiness or lower. Oh. Is the nation that it flips to random?
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Jul 24, 2013 06:21
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Ariong posted:Oh. Is the nation that it flips to random? It's dependent on tourism I believe. Whoever has the most gets the city.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:24
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So I'm not too great at this game and I seem to have a hard time playing a wide empire, my favorite civ right now is Babylon and from what I understand their early science bonuses greatly benefit from playing wide. I have a hard time really taking advantage of Liberty's faster settlers and end up only have 3-4 cities tops, which seems to be the norm for a tall empire, I just don't have the happiness to be pumping out settlers like the other civs, I know that settling on a luxury usually covers the cost of a new city, but not if I already have that luxury on another city. Is that a general strategy guide to playing a wide empire somewhere? Perhaps a Babylon LP on the new expansion that I could watch to gather some tips would help a bit.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:30
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I decided to try something different, i cranked the difficulty up to Deity, and set the map to Huge/Contients Plus, and set the only Victory to Domination  . While the AI might drastically out build/pace me in terms of buildings/research. There is one area where it sucks at, and that is combat strategy. I was able to make it to around 1900, and mostly due to the fact there was only one choke point into my little area. Eventually Venice's Zerg army of random units cleaved its way into my territory. Then proceeded to gobble everything up. Honestly i found the most interesting thing, was that out of all the civs in the game (including war civs like Attila, Aztecs, Germany, and Zulu), Venice was the one that more or less was destroying everything. 
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Jul 24, 2013 06:36
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Fano posted:So I'm not too great at this game and I seem to have a hard time playing a wide empire, my favorite civ right now is Babylon and from what I understand their early science bonuses greatly benefit from playing wide. I have a hard time really taking advantage of Liberty's faster settlers and end up only have 3-4 cities tops, which seems to be the norm for a tall empire, I just don't have the happiness to be pumping out settlers like the other civs, I know that settling on a luxury usually covers the cost of a new city, but not if I already have that luxury on another city. After 4 cities, even with liberty, only expand when you feel that you have the infrastructure to do so. There's a reason even insanely land greedy AI's like Hiawatha wait till like the middle ages to start expanding again. With an ICS strategy you can kinda get around that, but it's not that viable any more.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:37
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Can your missionaries convert rebels caused by unhappiness if you have the Heathen Conversion reformation? I imagine that could encourage some shenanigans.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:38
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Pvt.Scott posted:Can your missionaries convert rebels caused by unhappiness if you have the Heathen Conversion reformation? I imagine that could encourage some shenanigans. I'm sure i read of civfanatics that they can yes.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:38
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Some general questions I'm ashamed I don't know the answer to yet What exactly does the Wolfpack upgrade for submarines do? Combat strength while attacking? How is that different from strength against Naval units, since it can't attack anything else? Does the amount of GP points needed to pop the next one go up by era, or by when you pop one, or both? And does it go up across the board, or only for that specific person? Ie does popping a scientist make you need more points for artists? And are the points needed empire wide or city specific? I got so confused when every time I checked on the progress of my next merchant, it needed more points than last time. I didn't get my third city as venice until the modern era because of it.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:40
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Filthy Monkey posted:Been poking my head into emperor more, as I feel like I've gotten a handle on king now. I have to say, higher difficulties are definitely changing my views on wonders. Especially the early wonders, where the AI always seems to have a head start. Once you can close the science gap things can turn around. As much as I love the great library, it is feeling more and more like a 'good loving luck' wonder. It is a different game from prince, where I feel like I can just casually scoop them all up without too much of a fight. I never even saw the Hanging Gardens in that light but now that you put it that way, yeah, Petra and the Colossus can have the exact same effect as Hanging Gardens except be much more flexible and potentially give more food while also having their other great effects. When looked at it like that, Hanging Gardens is just strictly worse, and if you can go for Colossus or Petra instead, do so.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:40
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At higher difficulties, especially immortal, I've found Petra incredibly hard to get. I get GL maybe 90% of times I try, Petra 50%.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:46
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Fano posted:So I'm not too great at this game and I seem to have a hard time playing a wide empire, my favorite civ right now is Babylon and from what I understand their early science bonuses greatly benefit from playing wide. I have a hard time really taking advantage of Liberty's faster settlers and end up only have 3-4 cities tops, which seems to be the norm for a tall empire, I just don't have the happiness to be pumping out settlers like the other civs, I know that settling on a luxury usually covers the cost of a new city, but not if I already have that luxury on another city. Huh? Babylon's not particularly great at playing wide. They don't get any bonuses or benefits to it relative to a blank civ, save that maybe you run out of space of academies if you are doing a tall build (though even a tall build should have plenty of space). Wide's a little harder for a lot of people to learn because it requires a willingness to not build build build, to look at a city and go 'eh, it doesn't really need a [x].' It also means doing a lot of work to manage happiness.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:48
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What is the benefit of proving the world is round? In Civ 4 you got bonus movement. In Civ 5?
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Jul 24, 2013 06:49
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Varjon posted:Some general questions I'm ashamed I don't know the answer to yet Strength against Naval units affects both defense and offense, while Wolfpack is purely offense. The things that cause Great People to cost more to generate: Generating one, or having an occupied city (a city that you annexed but haven't built a courthouse in). The main set of great people, Merchants, Engineers, and Scientists share costs. So if you generate one, the cost of the others go up. But any accrued points for them in do not reset, only the city that generated the great person gets their points reset for that one person. Artists, Musicians, and Writers do not share costs with the previous three or even each other. Generating an Artist does not increase the cost of a Writer. Great Generals and Great Admirals also have their own individual costs, that do go up when you generate one. What this means for venice, and this is extremely important, is that you want to almost never generate any great people other than Merchants. Make sure all of your merchant specialist slots are filled and you have to keep an eye on the other bars and try not to run any other specialists if it means generating a different kind of great person. Doing so will increase the merchant costs and you don't want that. edit: I should state that obviously the culture GPs are safe to generate since as I said they don't affect the costs of merchants. Verviticus posted:At higher difficulties, especially immortal, I've found Petra incredibly hard to get. I get GL maybe 90% of times I try, Petra 50%. By GL, you mean Great Library? Man, on Emperor that goes no later than turn 45 and I've built it once or twice but I end up sacrificing too much. Petra is easier if you make a beeline for currency after you research writing for libraries and maybe one or two worker techs. I can usually finish it in my capital if I do that. If it needs to go in a secondary city, I say forget it unless I'm doing Liberty and then I might consider using the finisher to get me a great engineer and rush Petra. May not work if your culture output is paltry in the early game, though. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 06:49
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Varjon posted:What exactly does the Wolfpack upgrade for submarines do? Combat strength while attacking? How is that different from strength against Naval units, since it can't attack anything else? Wolfpack only applies when a unit is attacking. Targeting is also used when the unit is defending. quote:Does the amount of GP points needed to pop the next one go up by era, or by when you pop one, or both? And does it go up across the board, or only for that specific person? Ie does popping a scientist make you need more points for artists? And are the points needed empire wide or city specific? Both, and while GPPs are nominally collected independently from each other, the Scientist, Merchant and Engineer are pooled together so creating one will increase the cost of the all three. http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Great_people_(Civ5) Kaal fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 06:54
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Oh man, I just stormed Morocco's continent with an amphibious landing of about 20 Winged Hussar upgraded helicopters with blitz and shock 3, backed up by nuclear missile toting subs, 45 battleships, 20 carriers full of modern bombers and fighters and a supplementary force of bazookas, marines and giant death robots. Artists conception of the invasion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKpBT7eb5k
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Jul 24, 2013 07:04
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Verviticus posted:At higher difficulties, especially immortal, I've found Petra incredibly hard to get. I get GL maybe 90% of times I try, Petra 50%.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:10
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Verviticus posted:At higher difficulties, especially immortal, I've found Petra incredibly hard to get. I get GL maybe 90% of times I try, Petra 50%. Great Library is impossible to get on immortal+ and not worth getting on emperor because you have to rush so hard for it. Petra is actually pretty easy to get if you want it in your capital or in another city if you go liberty. Just my experiences with it.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:16
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My experience on Emperor is, if you are Morocco, some jackass is going to beat you no matter what you do. If you are on a civ that doesn't need it as much, you will probably get it.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:18
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uPen posted:Great Library is impossible to get on immortal+ and not worth getting on emperor because you have to rush so hard for it. Petra is actually pretty easy to get if you want it in your capital or in another city if you go liberty. Just my experiences with it. I dunno man, I get GL most of the time. I mean, I know the starts I need to get it, but I've never had problems. Petra always gets taken from me at like turn 65
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Jul 24, 2013 07:21
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When you trade food or production to other cities do they lose it for the duration of the trade route? I'm slightly confused over this and the civpedia tells me poo poo.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:24
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:When you trade food or production to other cities do they lose it for the duration of the trade route? I'm slightly confused over this and the civpedia tells me poo poo. Nope, that food is generated by sheer free-market magic.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:24
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Tulip posted:Nope, that food is generated by sheer free-market magic. Well then, that is pretty awesome!
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Jul 24, 2013 07:26
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misguided rage posted:I've never failed to get Petra if I'm beelining for it. Great library is gone by turn 35 at the absolute latest every game, I've never even come close to getting it. Maybe if I started on a plains hill and had a bunch of forests to chop, but I haven't had many forest starts recently. I mostly play on Emperor and I agree that it's not much of an effort to get Petra in the capital without going straight for it. I can get it in a second city about 50% of the time but I need to focus on getting the production up in that city. I've never seen the AI get the Great Library before turn 40 but it's almost always between 40 and 50. If I can't finish it by turn 45 I won't bother and I almost never can.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:26
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Verviticus posted:I dunno man, I get GL most of the time. I mean, I know the starts I need to get it, but I've never had problems. Is that start "start next to King Solomon's Mines as Spain?" I've only played a few games on Immortal so I can't speak to the timing on Petra, but I'm finding it hard to imagine a scenario where GL is doable short of lucking out and getting free Writing as soon as you tech Pottery.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:26
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:but I'm finding it hard to imagine a scenario where GL is doable short of lucking out and getting free Writing as soon as you tech Pottery. Getting free pottery works, or getting mining works. Obviously you can't do it every game. Some civs make it a hell of a lot easier (shoshone, egypt)
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Jul 24, 2013 07:34
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Garbo posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvru5jEQSOg Well that's just about the best thing ever.
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Jul 24, 2013 08:00
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SirKibbles posted:Beeline Pikemen eat nearest Civ, but seriously first policy is going to be either Liberty or Tradition depending on what you want to go for,then open honor get the great general from honors policy,find nearest Civ conquer them. That's exactly my point. Ikandas are off the Masonry line, and Civil Service has pre-requisites in each of the other three lines. I can't seem to tech to CS without falling behind somewhere.
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Jul 24, 2013 08:34
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I can get TGL on Emperor fairly consistently on a straight beeline so long as I get culture from ruins somewhere and have enough unimproved production at the capital (I think 7 does the trick? Or is it 8?). Of course even then you'll get the occasional game where the AI finishes it turn 39 or some craziness like that. Now whether that beeline is worth it (I use it exclusively for the college) is another story, but I find that when I get a significant science lead on the AI the rest tends to take care of itself. Also Assyrian Siege Towers are absolutely disgusting. It isn't quite as useful an advantage as it could be though since eating up civs that early in the game will destroy your economy and if you're not eating civs, what's the point?
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Jul 24, 2013 08:44
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drat, Pedro's war music is just the best thing in the game. I think if I ever end up with Brazil as a neighbor I'm going to have to pick a fight with them just so I can end up with that playing.
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Jul 24, 2013 08:55
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SirKibbles posted:Beeline Pikemen eat nearest Civ Five Archers and two Spearmen are enough to take a mature Classical-era capital. Pikemen come so late that your warmongering will only hinder you at that point with the science price increase and your new, lovely half-sized city that probably won't cover your deficit for half an era. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 09:03
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Dumb beginners question here: should I develop my first city until it reaches a certain population before making a second settler, or should I start my second settler ASAP?
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Jul 24, 2013 09:07
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Unlucky7 posted:Dumb beginners question here: should I develop my first city until it reaches a certain population before making a second settler, or should I start my second settler ASAP?
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Jul 24, 2013 09:09
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The White Dragon posted:The gently caress? You can shred an AI with Quick Speed on up to King at least with a focused Archer rush. Open with Archery (on Quick; any other speed and you can slack and grab a different tech first), build a Scout first and search for CSes hard while hunting Barbarians with your Warrior. Forget Monuments or Workers, just switch straight into Archers as soon as the tech is available. Move in the very second you produce your third Archer (you'll need 3-4 on Quick, you can manage 2 on Epic and Marathon); you should be able to outright buy one of them if you're hunting barbs and meeting CSes efficiently. Most people don't play on quick precisely because they want to enjoy units that appear later in the game like the Zulus' unique pikeman.
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Jul 24, 2013 10:51
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thehumandignity posted:Most people don't play on quick precisely because they want to enjoy units that appear later in the game like the Zulus' unique pikeman. What? The biggest problem with Quick is that units obsolete super fast - war is generally less powerful and less viable with lowtech units because the ratio of combatturns:builderturns favors the builders more. White Dragon was using Quick as a high benchmark - if archerrushing is viable on Quick, it's even more viable in every other gamespeed (meaning that Impi are less likely to be relevant on non-Quick speeds than on Quick).
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Jul 24, 2013 10:56
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Could anyone enlighten me on when ancient ruins can start giving faith? Is it after you've got a shrine, after you've got a pantheon, after a certain number of turns, ...?
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Jul 24, 2013 11:01
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Jolan posted:Could anyone enlighten me on when ancient ruins can start giving faith? Is it after you've got a shrine, after you've got a pantheon, after a certain number of turns, ...? I've never had Faith before researching Pottery. That's anecdotal evidence, though.
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Jul 24, 2013 11:17
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