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The discussion of civilians on the Death Star certainly reminds me of a certain scene in Clerks. Also, Thanks! This thread has been invaluable for me, I've been running a campaign with 3 buddies of mine, and it's really helped me sort out some of the misconceptions I had about the rules. I haven't GM'd anything in a while before this, and particularly the descriptions of the Range Bands in the thread were fantastic in clearing up the confusion between my players and I. My friend did roll a Hired Gun Droid, who is quite concerned with Droid Rights and the treatment of Droids. His description of his own motivations and back story were pretty involved, but I didn't know whether this first time player would be so committed to playing the character exactly as he described. Foolish me. In the first encounter, a scummy gangster made some disparaging, snide comment about him being a droid, and he blasted him immediately, no questions asked. Needless to say it had some serious consequences, but from talking to my buddy out of game, he's totally committed to being for Droid Rights. He even has been making it a point to destroy or break any Ionization Blasters we come across in our travels.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:02
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TheTofuShop posted:The discussion of civilians on the Death Star certainly reminds me of a certain scene in Clerks. I was thinking about the exact same scene. Which also reminded me of this awesomeness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0vsNFO2pDg And your friend seems like a cool guy to play with, just as long as he doesn't ruin the fun of everyone else in pursuit of his character's story line.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:10
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jivjov posted:Tons of civilians were stationed on the Death Star. Define civillians. There's a reason that when I google for "Civillian Contractors" the second result is the Wikipedia page on mercenaries.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:19
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neonchameleon posted:Define civillians. There's a reason that when I google for "Civillian Contractors" the second result is the Wikipedia page on mercenaries. There were several bars, clubs, and shopping centers on station, all of which were staffed by non-military personnel .
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Jul 24, 2013 21:22
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jivjov posted:There were several bars, clubs, and shopping centers on station, all of which were staffed by non-military personnel . In short the camp followers are also on the Death Star. Sorry, but it's an installation planned for military use, built for military use, and that serves the military almost exclusively and to which people moved to serve the military even if not in the military.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:31
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neonchameleon posted:In short the camp followers are also on the Death Star. Sorry, but it's an installation planned for military use, built for military use, and that serves the military almost exclusively and to which people moved to serve the military even if not in the military. What about the civilians that have no desire to be there? One of the senior architects for the living spaces on the Death Star was a political prisoner, forced to work on-station. One of the bartenders and her bouncer were offered a job on a space station, not told it housed a planet-busting superlaser.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:35
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At the end of the day there really isn't any difference between your starry-eyed Imperial recruit and your average Alderaanian ground troop. Storm Troopers aren't like, automatically bad guys. They joined the military for all the same reasons that anyone joins a military. Even if it was a purely military installation, it's a pretty weird thing to say, "They were part of the Imperial military, therefore, it's okay to kill them." Like, sure, maybe you're a bartender conscripted by the Imperial military or a coffee vendor working for Imperial credits. That doesn't make you part of the military, and being part of the military doesn't mean you ought to die. That being said I think everybody can agree that giant superlaser needed to go. Alderaan didn't have the capability to blow up other planets. I'm pretty sure that's what makes it okay, not the contents of who was on board. But it is a pretty weird utilitarian ethical message.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:42
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Kill 'em all and let the Force sort 'em out. Anyways, back to droid chat, how do force powers work with them in the system? I'm guessing sense and (the other one, I think mind) don't work on them, but does move? Can you even force move people in this game?
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Jul 24, 2013 21:48
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jivjov posted:What about the civilians that have no desire to be there? One of the senior architects for the living spaces on the Death Star was a political prisoner, forced to work on-station. One of the bartenders and her bouncer were offered a job on a space station, not told it housed a planet-busting superlaser. We're literally talking a fraction of 1% of the Death Star here. Are any civilian casualties a tragedy? Yes. But the difference between 99% of the population of the death star being either military or having moved there to service the military - and on the way to try to kill the rebels, and Alderaan which was more or less peaceful and with a tiny fraction being either military or rebels. Blowing up the Death Star was blowing up a genuinely military target in self defence when there was no other viable option, and the military target had already blown up a world. Blowing up Alderaan fulfilled none of those criteria.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:00
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neonchameleon posted:We're literally talking a fraction of 1% of the Death Star here. Are any civilian casualties a tragedy? Yes. But the difference between 99% of the population of the death star being either military or having moved there to service the military - and on the way to try to kill the rebels, and Alderaan which was more or less peaceful and with a tiny fraction being either military or rebels. Mind citing your source? I don't recall any source elaborating the exact proportion of civilians to soldiers on the Death Star. Also, at no point was I saying that blowing up the Death Star was a bad course of action; just that "there were no civilians on the Death Star" was an erroneous statement.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:04
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jivjov posted:Mind citing your source? I don't recall any source elaborating the exact proportion of civilians to soldiers on the Death Star.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:06
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Tharizdun posted:Alan Dean Foster's "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" from the 70s, where Luke meets and fights Darth Vader before the events of ESB, and reminisces about the *exact* number of people he killed on the Death Star. Huh, it's been a while since I read Splinter. I know Shadows of Mindor also has that as a plot point; Luke starts to wonder if some of his actions should get him tried as a war criminal and he mentioned the death toll from blowing up the Death Star.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:09
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Is there any reason to use a blaster pistol over a rifle/carbine?
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Jul 24, 2013 22:18
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this troper posted:Is there any reason to use a blaster pistol over a rifle/carbine? Concealability
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Jul 24, 2013 22:24
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The first thing that comes to mind is that it's concealable. Whereas a rifle is pretty obvious. Also, most classes get ranged light as a class skill, and not ranged heavy.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:25
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Blaster pistols are also not outlawed on most worlds. At least, in the fluff.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:38
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Encumbrance is another reason. Typically rifles are two handed, so that's yet another reason. If we're talking about raw combat effectiveness rifles are almost always an upgrade but there are a variety of very good reasons not to use them.
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Jul 25, 2013 00:45
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Speaking of rifles, I just realized making a sniper rifle at chargen is totally possible. I'm totally gonna have to make a sniper character one of these days. 
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Jul 25, 2013 00:52
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homullus posted:I agree, and saw that in the Core book. My point is that Lucas' world isn't made for that story -- the Rebellion is not one of droids against people, and the Rebellion we have is going to be dominating the releases for Edge of the Empire. You could certainly try to tell that story in your own game, and I think it would be interesting, but it would be a radical deviation from canon, as far as I can tell. Ugh I'm about to hate myself. IG-88 Gained sentience in the Tales of The Bounty Hunters collection, also transplanting his own artificial intelligence into the second death star moments before Lando Calrissian and Wedge Antilles blew that motherfucker up. 
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Jul 25, 2013 01:30
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Manifest posted:Ugh I'm about to hate myself. it's also worth noting that while Droids definitely show some semblance of sentience, they do not necessarily exhibit sapience. That is to say, they are aware of themselves (to varying extents) but do not necessarily "grow" or evolve from that self-awareness. Though certainly the longer droids go without memory wipes (in particular regard R2 astromech units like R2-D2) the more diverse, colorful, and sometimes eccentric, their personalities seem to become. A few notable cases even include droids who (their owner suspects at least) upload their memories to external storage databases in order to download later after memory wipes. The issue of sapience seems to be a rather important one however, as most droids, even the very intelligent models, never deviate very far from their initial programming or design, even given time to 'mature.' Very rarely do we see droids turn against their makers and the exceptions (such as IG-88) are notable. they're basically house elves from Harry Potter edit: on the issue of restraining bolts, they seem to override even basic droid independence, preventing the droid from acting in anyway without command or authorization from its 'master' Which is why you often see them in situations of theft where the droids prior programming needs to be completely subverted. This is apparent from Episode 4 with R2 and 3P0 treeboy fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 04:55
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devilmaydry posted:Also, most classes get ranged light as a class skill, and not ranged heavy. Wait, did I gently caress up chargen a little in the A-Team thread? I rolled a character with Smuggler as the career and Thief/Politico as dual specializations and I'm pretty sure there's no blaster skill whatsoever for either of those two. Which is a shame, but I guess it's good I splurged a little on increasing my agility. I guess he'll be a naturally decent shot.
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Jul 25, 2013 08:53
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The sapience issue in particular is interesting because droids who can do IT work including both hacking and programming are canon, so even if self-improvement through simply running isn't possible, some models with appropriate access and direction ought to be able to upgrade themselves more directly by upgrading their own programming. Not saying such behaviour would be anything but super-rare, but it's a galaxy of literally hundreds of quadrillions. I plan on playing a droid character who has done this, one day.
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Jul 25, 2013 10:26
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Tharizdun posted:Alan Dean Foster's "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" from the 70s, where Luke meets and fights Darth Vader before the events of ESB, and reminisces about the *exact* number of people he killed on the Death Star. Mendrian posted:Encumbrance is another reason. Typically rifles are two handed, so that's yet another reason.
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Jul 25, 2013 11:10
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Drone posted:Wait, did I gently caress up chargen a little in the A-Team thread? I rolled a character with Smuggler as the career and Thief/Politico as dual specializations and I'm pretty sure there's no blaster skill whatsoever for either of those two. It makes character advancement in a ranged skill slightly more expensive, but that should only bother you if you are really into character mechanics exp like I am. Edit: Characters that don't shoot well can contribute just as much in a game as characters designed to murder things. Also, proficiency dice help you succeed more, but having a good amount of ability dice is more important, really. devilmaydry fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 14:29
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Drone posted:Wait, did I gently caress up chargen a little in the A-Team thread? I rolled a character with Smuggler as the career and Thief/Politico as dual specializations and I'm pretty sure there's no blaster skill whatsoever for either of those two. nah, several smuggler starting specs don't start with Ranged (light), my Pilot doesn't. But I spent my two non-class Human skills on R-light so I'm rocking 2prof 2abil dice in his primary combat skill without having to spend precious starting xp on dual spec or non-career skills. TheDemon posted:The sapience issue in particular is interesting because droids who can do IT work including both hacking and programming are canon, so even if self-improvement through simply running isn't possible, some models with appropriate access and direction ought to be able to upgrade themselves more directly by upgrading their own programming. Not saying such behaviour would be anything but super-rare, but it's a galaxy of literally hundreds of quadrillions. A common theme among 'liberated' droids is programming error or some other 'glitch' causing Droids to gain full self-awareness and (more importantly) fully autonomous free-will. Most droids are at their base functionality incapable of going against their programming without some kind of express command from their owners (think C-3P0 impersonating a deity in RotJ)
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Jul 25, 2013 18:35
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treeboy posted:But I spent my two non-class Human skills on R-light so I'm rocking 2prof 2abil dice in his primary combat skill without having to spend precious starting xp on dual spec or non-career skills.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:41
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ImpactVector posted:Don't the human extra skills have to be in different skills? bah, i just double checked and you're right. that's what i get for reading that chapter at 2am. (still a decent way to pickup ranged for smugglers) edit: also updated the character sheet again. Improved performance and reduced filesize by almost 2mb https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16057259/Edge-of-the-Empire-CharacterSheet-Fillable-v3.pdf edit2: checked starting skills, most careers/specs have no ranged combat skill. The only career that starts with Ranged(light) is Hired Gun, Ranged(heavy) is Bounty Hunter. Outside of those only Scoundrel spec and Gadgeteer spec gain Ranged(light), a couple others get Ranged(heavy). treeboy fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 18:47
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I read the Force chapter this morning and I'm a bit confused. First, Force characters can only get Force Rating 2 at the moment right? 1 from getting the specialization and 1 from the talent at the end of the tree? Second; I think there's a couple like this but the first upgrade for Force Sense says something like use this ability once per round to upgrade attacks made against you. Fine. Next upgrade lets you use that ability multiple times a round? But isn't using a force ability an action which would limit you to one per round? Can someone explain to me how force abilities are supposed to be used? Maybe with like an in-encounter example?
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Jul 25, 2013 19:06
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Epi Lepi posted:I read the Force chapter this morning and I'm a bit confused. First, Force characters can only get Force Rating 2 at the moment right? 1 from getting the specialization and 1 from the talent at the end of the tree? round, not turn. You could upgrade the difficulty of multiple assailants with additional control power in Sense. edit: excuse me it uses dice commitment not force points edit2: an example Assume you have full sense control from the left hand column. This allows you to use a Force Die to upgrade your own attack two levels, downgrade an opponents two levels, and do either twice or both once, per round (assuming you have the force dice to commit that many) \/\/ check the wording carefully. The first control ability increases difficulty of attacks made against you, the second increases the ability of attacks you make treeboy fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 19:22
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That's slightly wrong. The force sense ability is essentially a force verison of dodge, and it functions similarly to dodge. Except for the fact that the force sense version causes no strain. Instead, you have to commit a force die to it. From my understanding, that means you cannot use your force die for anything while using the ability. So, when fully upgraded, it becomes a dodge ability that upgrades the pool to atrack you twice and can be used twice per round. Edit: Treeboy's post was edited, so this expands on what he said more than anything. ^^It seemed to me his question was talking more about the first ability more than the second, so I mostly talked about that one.^^ devilmaydry fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 19:30
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devilmaydry posted:That's slightly wrong. The force sense ability is essentially a force verison of dodge, and it functions similarly to dodge. Except for the fact that the force sense version causes no strain. Instead, you have to commit a force die to it. right. additionally in order to use it twice per round you would need two force dice, which would require a Force Rating of 2 (assuming you wanted to maintain the effects from round to round)
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Jul 25, 2013 19:34
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treeboy posted:right. additionally in order to use it twice per round you would need two force dice, which would require a Force Rating of 2 (assuming you wanted to maintain the effects from round to round) I don't think so. The duration upgrade doesn't look like it costs any force points to use. I'm also pretty sure you can't double activate the ongoing effect sense abilities by committing two force die. Edit: To expand on that, you can activate the first control ability by committing a force die, and then the other one by committing another force die, but you can't double activate the first ability by committing two force die to it.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:40
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devilmaydry posted:I don't think so. The duration upgrade doesn't look like it costs any force points to use. I'm also pretty sure you can't double activate the ongoing effect sense abilities by committing two force die. Yeah i misread the dice initially as a force point. I should just edit that out. i don't see why you couldn't use one control ability twice though. Otherwise the Duration power in that tree makes no sense since you don't have the second control power yet. Unless you're suggesting that a single dice commitment allows you to use the power twice per round.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:47
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That's what I'm thinking. I think they included the plural on effect so when you get the final power it's also covered under the duration and strength bonuses. And yeah, I said force points instead of force die in my last post. I don't think you commit force die for the duration and strength upgrade. They usually mention things like that, but they don't say that anywhere. I'm thinking it's right based on that, and also based on the fact that force powers are REALLY powerful, even if they take more than 100 points to fully utilize(it takes 115 points to get force rating 2, which you need to consistently activate force powers. Then you need to apply more experience to make the force powers themselves good.) devilmaydry fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 19:56
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treeboy posted:round, not turn. You could upgrade the difficulty of multiple assailants with additional control power in Sense. Explain this part first? Are you saying you can have multiple turns in a round? The action part is what's tripping me up first, is going "I'm going to use Force Sense" the action and then doing the other things modifying the action? Is it one action to use Force Sense to upgrade my attacks and a separate one to downgrade an opponent's?
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Jul 25, 2013 20:33
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No, that control ability of force sense is essentially a passive ability that is activated when you commit a force die to it. I'm not sure if it takes an action to activate the ability by committing a force die to it. However, I am sure that, once it's activated, it works like the dodge talent does. Except you don't lose any strain when you use it. It's basically a sub power, you don't use the basic force power when using that move. The same is true for the control power on the other side of the tree, which is used to sense thoughts. Also, I believe the power stays active until you decide to deactivate it. devilmaydry fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 20:39
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devilmaydry posted:No, that control ability of force sense is essentially a passive ability that is activated when you commit a force die to it. I'm not sure if it takes an action to activate the ability by committing a force die to it. However, I am sure that, once it's activated, it works like the dodge talent does. Except you don't lose any strain when you use it. yeah that seems to be the case with ongoing powers. The die is committed until you decide to deactivate the effect. Epi Lepi posted:Explain this part first? Are you saying you can have multiple turns in a round? edit: and as per what devilmaydry was saying earlier, if you have two force dice then you could activate each of the two sense abilities and upgrade both your attack and downgrade your opponents twice each round. Committing the dice would take actions, but once they're activated you merely have to keep the dice committed and then you can attack/etc with your actions treeboy fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 20:57
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Can someone tell me what the hell is up with grenades? My group and I have muddled through it but honestly it's a bit weird. So first issue - range. The range on a grenade is short. When it explodes, it damages everything in short range? Doesn't that mean it would damage you as well? Especially when the blast ability is triggered? Or is the idea that you throw it at the group of stormtroopers, and it just explodes near them, not hurting you? Second issue - What skill does throwing a grenade fall under? Light? Heavy? Athletics? My third issue, which is more a beef - minion damage. Does the damage just spill over like normal? It seems a bit odd to me, wouldn't it do a bit of damage to all of them split up, rather than going 'one down, two down, three down' like bowling pins.
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Jul 25, 2013 22:13
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You can throw a grenade short range, but it hits everything engaged to the target. So if you use a grenade while in a brawl with your target, you'll get hit. You'll be fine otherwise, though. I'm not sure how useful that would be in most situations, though. Besides minions, or when you catch enemies by surprise, I don't see many situations where enemies would be so close together. A grenade uses the ranged(light) skill, which can be seen in the chart on page 160 or on the gm screen. Also, on minion damage, I'm fine with the idea that they go down one at a time, personally. I think it'd be kind of weird if you didn't kill any of them and then suddenly they all die. devilmaydry fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 22:34
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Updated those character sheets again, also created a higher contrast version which should be easier on the ink cartridges if you want to print it out. Rearranged the boxes a bit, added a couple custom fields, and a third page with additional talent boxes and a background/notes/misc section Version 4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16057259/Edge-of-the-Empire-CharacterSheet-Fillable-v4.pdf High Contrast https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16057259/Edge-of-the-Empire-CharacterSheet-Fillable-v4HC.pdf
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Jul 27, 2013 19:03
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