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Excelsiortothemax posted:Just break out "Well at least they aren't as bad as GW for ripping off the Zerg from Blizzard. Not an original idea in their head." There was a guy in the kickstarter thread who said Warmachine: Tactics was ripping off Blizzard and Warcraft. 
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Jul 25, 2013 20:15
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Ashcans posted:Basically everything you put into 'Themes' is a list of 'Stuff stolen from Tolkien by all fantasy authors ever'. And honestly, half of it is just stuff that is inherent to the mythologies of Elves in general that Tolkien just did a good job packaging into his own world. The main thing which made me feel the way I did (which was also the first thing I saw) was this:  If you don't at least understand how I drew the comparison, then I don't know what else to say. Semi-unrelated: this picture is missing from the OP; it looks like the link broke at some point. You're (SJ, I think?) welcome to use this one, which I just uploaded to and linked from imgur.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:31
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No I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it, I just don't agree that the similarity is so close that you could actually slip models between the two groups without it being blatantly obvious. I mean they share an organic aesthetic, but Ret has a chunkiness to it that is totally absent in the Eldar, and Eldar lean toward a sleekness and length that doesn't appear in Ret. But I already admitted I am a huge Eldar nerd, so it's possible these differences are just much more obvious and glaring to me than most people.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:38
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Real hurthling! posted:What's the the story with Cyriss? Is there just significant time before they have a full range of models or are they always going to be smaller? Cyriss will be on a limited release unless it sells stupidly well and PP realizes they can make mad bank on it. Expect a new model ever 2-3 years rather than the yearly release schedule for the current factions. Convergence of Cyriss are actually the secretive inner circle that draws from and manipulates the rest of the cult, fooling outsiders into thinking they're just an extreme minor sect. They believe that their goddess communicated with them through astronomy and math to lead them to enlightenment. Think AIM (if you are familiar with Marvel). Full of angry nerds that use robots to get what they want by force. Their ultimate goal is to turn all of Caen into a techno-paradise so that Cyriss can manifest herself and they can all join her as cogs in her great machine. To do this they need to tamper and control the ley lines around the world and have them attuned to Cyriss. They believe the flesh is weak but must be respected. Unneeded mechanikal changes are an abomination. Only pure metal should encase their souls. As such most of Cyriss's members who are deemed worth are ritually and brutally killed via the most painful way possible(it's needed to separate the soul from the body), then their soul is captured in a vessel and put in to a robot body. They effectively can live forever so long as the soul vessel isn't damaged. If they get tired of walking around in a robot body they can be removed and join in the soul super computer, The Constellation. There they sit and think and do math and try to decipher Cyriss's cryptic messages to her chosen. Since the Constellation is immobile and can take awhile to reach a decision, the Convergence created the role of Iron Father or Iron Mother. They are the chosen of Cyriss who have been selected to lead them in important decisions. They have despotic power over all members of Cyriss and can use their resources as they see fit. Cyriss has no standing military. Instead all of their forces are pulled from secret temples and manufacturing areas all across Immoren. If forces are needed then a ranking priest or engineer takes what they want. Usually these are Warcasters. Their warjacks are known as Vectors. They have no cortex as AI is anathema to Cyriss. Instead they have an Induction node that lets the warcaster take direct control of the machine. They are incredibly focus efficient and can pass one focus to another jack via Induction. Currently there are 5 main casters, each one an important part of the Cyriss war engine. Ranked lowest is Axis the Harmonic Enforcer. He was driven to madness via Cyriss's gifts and was almost killed early on in his career by fellow cultists. Directrix saw potential in the raging mathematician and put him to use as a shock force leader. He is always the first on scene to clear away enemy resistance around ley line nodes or areas for new camps. Next in rank is Aurora, Numen of Aerogenisis. She is the daughter of Directrix when she still had a body of flesh. Bred and raised to be a genius and eventually take over the Convergence as another Iron Mother, she has already greatly advanced the Convergence's technology regarding wingless flight. She is the one who first created the clock work angels and made her flight powered warcaster armour. She believes this to be enough to give her a body of steel. Her mother blocks this so that Aurora can have children herself and not feel so isolated and alone as Directrix feels now. As such there is much tension between her and her mother. Next in line by virtue of age is Forge Master Syntherion. He is the most gifted engineers to be blessed by Cyriss. It was his planning or refinement that made most of the Convergence's vectors, arms and armour. He has been a machine for many years, and what little emotions he had have been wiped away. He is a sociopathic tinkerer and will not hesitate to throw lives away if it advances the Great Work. Father Lucant, the Architect of Divinity is the 2nd most highest ranking member of the Convergence. He discovered the secrets of the soul vessel(with some guidance from Mortenabra before she went evil) and was the 2nd successful transfer of flesh to steel. He is the founder of the way the cult of Cyriss operates now and was the first to translate the majority of the early ciphers of goddess. He was the first to be declared Iron Father and has made many wonders appear. He now supports the Iron Mother in the war effort to attune Caen for Cyriss's arrival. Lastly we have Directrix, The Iron Mother. She carries the title of the ultimate leader of the Cult and speaks for the entire Convergence. She posses formidable skills in battle and marches upon the other nations to make ready the world for the coming of Cyriss. She feels that she was too bold in transferring her soul to a steel body though, and now harbours faint emotions of regret over not being able to make a stronger bond with her daughter. These warcasters, along with others, are primarily supported by three types of units, in addition to the Vectors. The first are the flesh priests, the Optifex. They support the armies with technical prowess and with dexterous movement that the current mechanikal bodies cannot replicate. Next are the clockwork vessels. These comprise the bulk of the armed forces of the Convergence. They posses fighting finesse equal to any army on Caen and come well equipped to battle their foes. They come in light infantry with (generally) superior numbers or heavy infantry that posses greater armour and weapons. To assist in battle the Convergence also deploys servitors. They fill a variety of rolls that are either support based or offensive. They are quick, nimble and plenty. Expect to see many of them alongside the chosen of the goddess. In battle itself Cyriss operates like a clock. It's fluid movement depends on the harmony of it's pieces. As such every unit compliments each other, either by offering defence, repairs buffs or debuffs. While it might seem similar to Menoth, Cyriss differs in having more variety in what their army can do, rather than set to one role. They also have a different type of denial. The Convergence can literally rebuild and repair it's army in the field, and as such can be a real pain to remove. To destroy the clock you have to take out it's cogs. Target key pieces to remove the ability to repair or resurrect and suddenly the Convergence will falter and crumble. They also have a great weakness against buffs or debuffs against themselves, so a smart opponent will use that to their advantage. None shall imperil the Great Work! Excelsiortothemax fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 20:39
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I'm not sure how "totally ripped off this and that" is supposed to be an argument against anything. Trying to find an original idea in any fantasy setting (or popular culture in general) is a fools errand, because people have been writing and creating stuff for hundreds of years. I doubt anyone is going to begrudge Khador for being rather blatantly inspired by a tzarist Russia and stereotypical caricatures of its inhabitants, as it is part of the appeal of the setting. It would be foolish not to utilize evocative aesthetics that actually resonate due to how well known they are. And I can't think of any single original idea in Games Workshops settings either. It's just a kitchen sink of other fantastic elements thrown together with their own spin on it which in turn developed over time. I would argue that anyone that points out anything about it as original isn't very well educated in regards to all that stuff that came before it and might have lead to what inspired the settings in question. Not to mention the countless direct references inherent in the settings. Neither of these are worse due to this. But I suppose that's the reasonable way of looking at it. Is this really a thing that happens a lot though? It's common on the internet I suppose, but in real life I've only really encountered this in regards to movies on rare occasions, but not to any serious extent and the same argument usually applies there as there's always some other piece of fiction that came before that seems eerily similar. The elves alway reminded me more of mint and iPods, but at least that can be fixed by not using the studio paint scheme.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:45
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Cyriss will be on a limited release unless it sells stupidly well and PP realizes they can make mad bank on it. Expect a new model ever 2-3 years rather than the yearly release schedule for the current factions. Correction, they're not a fringe group of the Cult of Cyriss, they're actually the secretive inner circle that draws from and manipulates the rest of the cult, fooling outsiders into thinking they're just an extreme minor sect.  Edit: also where are people getting the whole idea that Cyriss hates cybernetics or the like, exactly? I've skimmed the Convergence faction book a few times and all remember seeing is that one harmonic about how metal is better in general. Pussy Cartel fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 21:09
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Ashcans posted:No I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it, I just don't agree that the similarity is so close that you could actually slip models between the two groups without it being blatantly obvious. I mean they share an organic aesthetic, but Ret has a chunkiness to it that is totally absent in the Eldar, and Eldar lean toward a sleekness and length that doesn't appear in Ret. That makes sense. I think if I played either Ret or Eldar I'd probably agree with you outright. As it is I could probably distinguish them perfectly if it came up today and I believed that models I wasn't familiar with might exist, but two years ago there's no way I could've figured it out without going off of scale or composition (resin v. metal, I mean). Zwiebel posted:I'm not sure how "totally ripped off this and that" is supposed to be an argument against anything. Trying to find an original idea in any fantasy setting (or popular culture in general) is a fools errand, because people have been writing and creating stuff for hundreds of years. I doubt anyone is going to begrudge Khador for being rather blatantly inspired by a tzarist Russia and stereotypical caricatures of its inhabitants, as it is part of the appeal of the setting. It would be foolish not to utilize evocative aesthetics that actually resonate due to how well known they are. I completely agree with the explanation of your post, but not necessarily your conclusion regarding peoples' reactions to it. I run into it more in real life than on the internet (probably because aside from a few trusted hobby-related threads and forums the bulk of my internet reading is not entertainment-related, at least not in this sense). One time Paper Kaiju and I were playing a game and some (relatively new) Warhammer guys came over and were genuinely interested, and didn't even realize that the game we were playing wasn't Warhammer at first. Most of the "this looks like that" isn't usually seen as a negative, in my experience. A lot of my friends got into Warmachine or Warhammer faction X because it's evocative of whatever thing Y. My friend Alex plays Skorne because of historical themes and images they trigger, and got into Tyranids before that because he was a huge Alien fan. (And Tomb Kings for similar reasons.) When I'm trying to teach someone unfamiliar with anything, I try to find shared experiences that resonate with them. Usually, that's a positive. Sometimes, people react poorly because they perceive the new thing as being too close to the old(er) thing for comfort. It's not just a nerd thing, either. My mom was sort of unhappy when she first saw my current pets because they looked so similar to equally beloved and now deceased family pets I had previously owned. Sometimes I have a craft beer and I think "god, the label/name/composition of X is clearly trying to capitalize on Y's success." One great example is in video game marketing, where non-AAA studios repeatedly use images and titles designed to seduce Grandma at Christmas into getting their grandkids something like, but not, the thing they want. At certain points this turns into trademark and trade dress litigation. Other times it can be a great way to find a new thing you like. It's just the way people are.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:19
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Pussy Cartel posted:Correction, they're not a fringe group of the Cult of Cyriss, they're actually the secretive inner circle that draws from and manipulates the rest of the cult, fooling outsiders into thinking they're just an extreme minor sect. In the fluff when Mortenabra shows up, Lucant says that her unnecessary combination of flesh of metal was an abomination.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:19
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Hey Cygnar pros, I need some feedback on 2 lists for our Journeyman League (german point system, so 36 and 42). One is fairly standard, the other I've been wracking my brain over on wether it's awesome or not. One thing to keep in mind, the lists contain a lot of models that I haven't played in the Journeyman League - since we've got a fairly good and VERY fast painter, you only score hobby points for stuff you actually use, so in a strange perverted kind of powergaming I've been trying to play as many different lists as I can. Amusingly, the 42 point list which looks pretty good on paper also is the one that "suffers" from this the most (Stormblades, Rhupert, Stormstrider, Stormclad are all new but hopefully great together). The "standard" list: Haley2, 42 pts - Haley2 -5 - Lancer 6 - Squire 2 - Stormclad 10 Stormstrider 9 Full Stormblades w/ UA, 3 WA 11 Rhupert Carvolo 2 Journeyman Warcaster 3 Black 13th 4 The "what am I doing plz help" list: Nemo1, 36 pts Nemo1 -6 - Lancer 6 - Avenger 9 - Ironclad 7 - Sylys 2 Tactical Arcanist Corps 4 Rangers 5 Black 13th 4 Journeyman 3 Arlan Strangewayes 2 My meta is very jack heavy, so this list was built to answer in kind. Two heavies, one of whom can get 5 focus a turn sounds nice. I'm debating two things: switching the Avenger for a Centurion (at least one reach 'jack in a list starved for infantry sounds good) or downgrade to a hammersmith, ditch the rangers and get either min boomhowlers or max Sword knights. What do you guys think?
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Jul 25, 2013 21:22
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Now I'm curious if it has any relation to the 'uncanny valley'. The way you described it makes me think similar psychological principles are at work.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:30
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Who exactly are the Cephalyx, lore-wise?
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Jul 25, 2013 21:37
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Pierzak posted:Who exactly are the Cephalyx, lore-wise? A mysterious race of subterranean humanoids with psychic powers and a love of kidnapping humanoids of other races and using them as slaves and test subjects. They've formed some sort of pact with Gaspy to help out Cryx just a bit, and they've got a long-standing rivalry with the Cyrissists.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:43
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I wonder if they were being teased years ago when they dropped them into Cryx, and they've held off since no one has ever fielded them even on accident. Their pact with Gaspy was apparently to provide their least useful units, presumably in the "Just Field Bane Thralls Accordance of 607 AR".
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Jul 25, 2013 21:47
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:I imagine PP demons being cartoony and rad in my head, like the rest of the factions. Plus I imagine more golem-like, magma style demons than the (frankly stupid in most cases) GW ones. PP Demons already exist, they're the Infernals, they look like this. From what I have gathered they are more the "eats your dreams, then your souuuuullll" kind of demons, with a special love of lopsided bargains and the like. So big molten magma dudes with horns is pretty unlikely. They are described as less traditionally demonic and more alien and weird. Also, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, Infernals don't really operate in a way that would work on the tabletop. They work from the shadows through manipulation and dark magic, they don't really have combat units or an interest in conquest at all. I mean PP could change all that with a wave of a hand but from the stuff released so far Infernals are pretty much at the bottom of the "faction possibility" list, behind Cephalyx, Zul, and even the Orgoth.
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Jul 25, 2013 22:41
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AttackBacon posted:PP Demons already exist, they're the Infernals, they look like this. From what I have gathered they are more the "eats your dreams, then your souuuuullll" kind of demons, with a special love of lopsided bargains and the like. So big molten magma dudes with horns is pretty unlikely. They are described as less traditionally demonic and more alien and weird. Yeah, from what I remember reading Infernals really just want the souls of mortals for whatever reasons, and they can only claim the souls of people who've been specially and willingly marked, which is why they rely on people summoning and making pacts with them, usually in exchange for the bargainer's soul or the souls of others they can rope into signing it all away. And they've got a special interest in spellcasters since they're best able to summon more Infernals for even more soul-snatching fun.
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Jul 25, 2013 23:19
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I hope they reveal a large island off the north west of immoren with orgoth raiders who have no idea the war is over.
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Jul 26, 2013 00:13
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Sulecrist posted:Semi-unrelated: this picture is missing from the OP; it looks like the link broke at some point. You're (SJ, I think?) welcome to use this one, which I just uploaded to and linked from imgur. Thanks for the heads up, I guess a couple pics had been broken. They should be fixed now. However,  If anyone would like to do a write-up for Convergence of Cyriss for me to put in the OP, I'd greatly appreciate it. All of the descriptions (I think...) were written by players of the respective factions in this thread!
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Jul 26, 2013 01:36
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New KS email, with Menoth journeyman model shown, is out.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:30
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Durant sculpt
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Jul 26, 2013 03:33
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Real hurthling! posted:Durant sculpt I loving love it.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:41
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That looks outstanding. Much better than the art they released before.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:55
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Real hurthling! posted:I hope they reveal a large island off the north west of immoren with orgoth raiders who have no idea the war is over. That would actually be pretty cool.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:57
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S.J. posted:Thanks for the heads up, I guess a couple pics had been broken. They should be fixed now. Just looking for a write up of each unit? Yah I can do that.
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Jul 26, 2013 06:01
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Backed, want my Tristan. E: How the gently caress do I pick my reward? or do I have to wait until it funds? Flipswitch fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 11:13
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Flipswitch posted:Backed, want my Tristan. Pretty sure they'll send a survey out to everyone some time after the Kickstarter is finished asking what add-ons people wanted, if other Kickstarters with add-ons are any indication.
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Jul 26, 2013 12:42
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Kind of a weird question that might go better in the painting thread, but wanted to hit up here first. I've been an off-and-on player of WARMACHINE/HORDES ever since Prime MK I, but I ended up selling my models about two years ago, as I just didn't have the time any more. I want to get back into the game, and there's a store near me with people who play, but what holds me back is the lack of time to model/assemble/paint the pieces. I'm thinking about going Cryx this time out - is there anyone in this thread who does assembling/painting by commission or can recommend a person/group who does?
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Jul 26, 2013 13:51
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Man I love that Menoth journeyman, wow. He looks so badass.
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Jul 26, 2013 13:57
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Pussy Cartel posted:Pretty sure they'll send a survey out to everyone some time after the Kickstarter is finished asking what add-ons people wanted, if other Kickstarters with add-ons are any indication.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:01
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Hey guys, just saw that the full box of (5) Trollkin Long Riders is on sale on the War Store (PP bargain basement section) for $70. That's 33% off, which is better than even discountgamesinc. If you're interested, move on it now! I wish I played trolls.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:07
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Just looking for a write up of each unit? Yah I can do that. No, an overview of the faction, like the other descriptions in the OP.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:09
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CobiWann posted:I want to get back into the game, and there's a store near me with people who play, but what holds me back is the lack of time to model/assemble/paint the pieces. I'm thinking about going Cryx this time out - is there anyone in this thread who does assembling/painting by commission or can recommend a person/group who does? If you don't get a response here, you can also try the painting/modeling thread, where I know there are a couple of goons who do commissions of varying types. You might also try looking around your store for someone who is interested. That has the advantage that you won't have to pay for shipping, for one thing. In addition, it just makes handling the whole thing and following up on it easier for you.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:30
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S.J. posted:No, an overview of the faction, like the other descriptions in the OP. Oh I can just expand my effort post to fit those guidelines easy enough.
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Jul 26, 2013 18:19
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First model of the new merc march on the kickstarter has been revealed as the Steelhead Halberdier.
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Jul 26, 2013 18:54
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C'mon Talion pirates! Daddy needs a one-legged dwarf!
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Jul 26, 2013 18:57
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Not looking real good for making it to Ret being playable, is it? Oh the moaning on the PP boards if you can't play Ret.
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Jul 26, 2013 19:04
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evenworse username posted:Not looking real good for making it to Ret being playable, is it? If the trend of "As much, or more, on the last day than the first day" happens like it has in other kickstarters then there is a chance.
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Jul 26, 2013 19:07
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Might be a good thing, I don't want them to get mired down by overpromising early and never release or get shamewalked into releasing a second kickstarter. It's happened to other video games.
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Jul 26, 2013 19:10
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Khisanth Magus posted:If the trend of "As much, or more, on the last day than the first day" happens like it has in other kickstarters then there is a chance. Think that will happen? I feel like almost doubling their goal in half the time of the kickstarter is pretty solid as is. I'd be surprised to see another flood.
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Jul 26, 2013 19:13
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Sab669 posted:Think that will happen? I feel like almost doubling their goal in half the time of the kickstarter is pretty solid as is. I'd be surprised to see another flood. Personally I don't think it will, but other people have been so adamant that that is the trend of kickstarters, so we will see.
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Jul 26, 2013 19:16
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CobiWann posted:Kind of a weird question that might go better in the painting thread, but wanted to hit up here first. If you are going to buy a battlebox just to start, there's a discount code PP has put out to get them discounted from their store. It turns out to be ~$7 less than from Miniature Market with comparable shipping charges. Code doesn't work with Cyriss. Cyriss is also a bitch and a half to put together. My meta is super newbie friendly. not sure how yours is but I could show up without my army and still get games in because everyone brings 3+ different armies and doesn't mind lending figures out. Our local gaming group via meetup had a lot of painters. You may want to look and see if there is a site there too for painter resources. When I did commisions, I used to barter for them with my gaming group and it worked out better than cash. Pussy Cartel posted:Pretty sure they'll send a survey out to everyone some time after the Kickstarter is finished asking what add-ons people wanted, if other Kickstarters with add-ons are any indication. I hope they include a way to increase your pledge after the kickstarter like how Mantic did, because drat, I don't know how much cash I'll have on hand in August for plastic steampunk barbies but I don't want to miss out. Verdugo fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 19:21
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