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Oh, and one more beginner's question, can Holy Orders attack excommunicated Christian leaders?
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Jul 25, 2013 18:01
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Dallan Invictus posted:I don't know if the AI takes that into account, but to be fair, you are also aware of how much money they have. You can also check to see the max number of troops someone can have and the amount of troops they can currently raise and I know for a fact that the AI will take this into account when deciding to declare war or not. Can religious heads be converted? Im wondering because the Franco-Byzantine Empire in my game has been slowly stamping out Orthodox Christianity and Im wondering if its possible for them to flip the Ecumenical Patriarch. edit: quote:Also, what religion is best to allow him to go across the world knocking women up as in real life? Probably any Pagan since you can just take a ton of Concubines, although Id say world conquest is slightly easier as Muslim than as Pagan since you can just pay piety and invade a kingdom. SpRahl fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 18:05
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Evil Sagan posted:Anyway, please advise, also I love this game. This is a bit gamey, but what I like to do is give away the count titles to my bishops. Bishops tend to be pretty chill vassals, they give you money (unlike nobles), and they also provide a good sized stack of troops. If it's a province that I won't directly control myself, or someone in my dynasty won't directly control I just hand off to the church in that province. To do it, just find the church in the province, open up diplomacy with the bishop, go to the grant landed title screen, and give him the province he currently sits in. He'll take over control of the province, and you now have a vassal who isn't nearly as much of an rear end in a top hat as some uppity count usually is.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:53
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SeaTard posted:This is a bit gamey, but what I like to do is give away the count titles to my bishops. Bishops tend to be pretty chill vassals, they give you money (unlike nobles), and they also provide a good sized stack of troops. If it's a province that I won't directly control myself, or someone in my dynasty won't directly control I just hand off to the church in that province. This is even more gamey, but another benefit to bishop vassals is there's an easy way to get rid of them if they do get rebellious. Appoint them as your court chaplain and send them to convert a pagan ruler. 99% of the time, they'll get arrested and thus no longer a threat.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:00
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Pakled posted:This is even more gamey, but another benefit to bishop vassals is there's an easy way to get rid of them if they do get rebellious. Appoint them as your court chaplain and send them to convert a pagan ruler. 99% of the time, they'll get arrested and thus no longer a threat. Sending inconvenient members of your court off to die in service is a time-honored and Biblical tradition! If it's good enough for King David, it's good enough for the Petty King of Tara!
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Jul 25, 2013 20:01
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SeaTard posted:This is a bit gamey, but what I like to do is give away the count titles to my bishops. Bishops tend to be pretty chill vassals, they give you money (unlike nobles), and they also provide a good sized stack of troops. If it's a province that I won't directly control myself, or someone in my dynasty won't directly control I just hand off to the church in that province. Its gamey as gently caress and Im guilty of it but I hope Paradox does something about it to make church vassals a bit more risky, maybe a theocracy DLC? Nobles can give you money if you have laws for it, its just they get a negative opinion modifier, church vassals do too but its really easy to offset that with other positive modifiers, its really easy to please the clergy. Pakled posted:This is even more gamey, but another benefit to bishop vassals is there's an easy way to get rid of them if they do get rebellious. Appoint them as your court chaplain and send them to convert a pagan ruler. 99% of the time, they'll get arrested and thus no longer a threat. Do the pagans traits affect how well the mission goes? Like a Zealous pagan would pretty much always kill him but a cynical one might let him be?
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Jul 25, 2013 20:01
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Ah, here's another newbie question. Once I start getting some Counts in service to me, obviously politics are going to get more complex. If one of my vassals has a claim on a county, and I choose to press it on his behalf, does the newly-won county fall under my Kingdom or does it become an independant realm under the control of my vassal?
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Jul 25, 2013 20:07
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Evil Sagan posted:Ah, here's another newbie question. Once I start getting some Counts in service to me, obviously politics are going to get more complex. If one of my vassals has a claim on a county, and I choose to press it on his behalf, does the newly-won county fall under my Kingdom or does it become an independant realm under the control of my vassal? *Usually* not if they're already vassal to you. If you're playing CKII, hover over the CB in war menu and ti will tell you.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:09
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Evil Sagan posted:Ah, here's another newbie question. Once I start getting some Counts in service to me, obviously politics are going to get more complex. If one of my vassals has a claim on a county, and I choose to press it on his behalf, does the newly-won county fall under my Kingdom or does it become an independant realm under the control of my vassal? If he is already your vassal(specifically owns a hodling of some sort, baronies count for this) as long as the title being pressed is not equal to or higher than your highest title he will stay your vassal. If he is an unlanded courtier than the newly won land will be independent except in certain circumstances. Demanding vassalization can also sometimes work to offset this.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:10
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Thanks, guys. It works pretty much as I assumed, but as badly as my first two games went I want to be extra sure. I'm really high on my current success in this game and I don't want to ruin it all but getting myself locked in a position of powerlessness because I didn't understand the mechanics. I can't go back to just being a count  Speaking of avoiding matching title strength, let's say I have Dublin and Kildare. Together they form a duchy. If I give a vassal the landed title for Dublin and the landed title for Kildare, am I effectively giving him the duchy (thus losing control of the vassal and both counties)?
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Jul 25, 2013 20:19
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Evil Sagan posted:Speaking of avoiding matching title strength, let's say I have Dublin and Kildare. Together they form a duchy. If I give a vassal the landed title for Dublin and the landed title for Kildare, am I effectively giving him the duchy (thus losing control of the vassal and both counties)? No, he won't be able to create/usurp the duchy because you can't create/usurp a title equal or greater than your liege's top level title. He will remain a count. But if you hold the duchy of Dublin yourself, the vassal will hate you because he will want to be duke of Dublin, unless he has the content trait.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:36
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Evil Sagan posted:Speaking of avoiding matching title strength, let's say I have Dublin and Kildare. Together they form a duchy. If I give a vassal the landed title for Dublin and the landed title for Kildare, am I effectively giving him the duchy (thus losing control of the vassal and both counties)? Technically no you would still be the Duke of those two lands they would just own the land itself. However, characters can usurp a title from you if they own enough of the land (50% or more) comprising the duchy or kingdom and have enough gold. Though that wont be a problem for awhile
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Jul 25, 2013 20:39
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marktheando posted:No, he won't be able to create/usurp the duchy because you can't create/usurp a title equal or greater than your liege's top level title. He will remain a count. Oooh excellent information, and a good reason to avoid creating titles all willy-nilly! Thank you. quote:Technically no you would still be the Duke of those two lands they would just own the land itself. However, characters can usurp a title from you if they own enough of the land (50% or more) comprising the duchy or kingdom and have enough gold. If you were still a duke and they usurped a duchy title from you they would be independent. Youll probably be ok as its gonna be a long time before a freshly made count can afford to do that and after you form the Kingdom of Ireland it wont matter and you can just give them the duchy (since you can ony hold 2 duchies as a king). Uh jeez. I know you're saying I don't need to worry about it with new counts, but the fact that he only needs one of two counties in a duchy to usurp is kind of scary. gently caress it. No non-Content counts, and only one county per person! I will rule this kingdom of drooling subservients! 100 degrees Calcium fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 20:40
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So, I am not exactly sure what just happened. I am currently the Emperor of the Roman Empire, chilling and relaxing all good you know. When all of a sudden, Anatolia becomes their own kingdom... No independence faction, no rebellion, no warning whatsoever. I suspect he had a plot or something, but I'm not even sure how that would work. Also, how exactly do I cease all my vassals fighting? I currently have it set to Medium crown authority in the Roman Empire, but they continue to wage war with each other. Parts of Arabia being the Kingdom of Finland is getting really annoying. I figure it might be because all the kingdoms under me have their own laws or something. Anyone know whats going on?
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Jul 25, 2013 20:45
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Evil Sagan posted:Oooh excellent information, and a good reason to avoid creating titles all willy-nilly! Thank you. It's actually 51% as of a few patches ago, and he won't be able to usurp a duchy until you become king. And it isn't a problem when you are king, since you will only want to hold max two duchies anyway, to avoid a nasty opinion penalty for too many held duchies.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:50
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marktheando posted:It's actually 51% as of a few patches ago, and he won't be able to usurp a duchy until you become king. And it isn't a problem when you are king, since you will only want to hold max two duchies anyway, to avoid a nasty opinion penalty for too many held duchies. Dang, this is confusing. So basically my counts will squabble amongst themselves to try to get more land and power, but they won't ever try to match me?
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Jul 25, 2013 20:52
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Evil Sagan posted:Dang, this is confusing. So basically counts will squabble amongst themselves to try to get more land and power, but they won't ever try to match me? Oh they will try to match you. Every noble is playing the same game as you are. As a petty king, if your counts don't like you they can scheme to get claims on your title, or back your stupid brother or uncle in a succession war, or war to become independent. Or have you murdered. It's just they can't usurp your top level title or one equal in status to it.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:57
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Evil Sagan posted:Dang, this is confusing. So basically my counts will squabble amongst themselves to try to get more land and power, but they won't ever try to match me? Kind of. They can never get a title equal to yours, because that means they would end up independent. They can declare war against you and fight for their independence however, which they will certainly do if they don't like you and are more powerful than you.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:58
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Evil Sagan posted:Dang, this is confusing. So basically my counts will squabble amongst themselves to try to get more land and power, but they won't ever try to match me? Sometimes they will join up with each other and end your reign of tyranny.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:59
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SpRahl posted:Sometimes they will join up with each other and end your reign of tyranny. Which is why its always good to marry off your ticking genetic time bomb tyrannical children to your enemies.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:11
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Dallan Invictus posted:You can only give counties directly to women if you have an Absolute Cognatic succession law, which in vanilla is restricted to Basques. This is not something the game makes entirely clear. If you're a pagan and your pagan religion allows women to hold temples, you can grant a woman a temple holding and then grant her the county and pow, you've given a county to a woman.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:15
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So the great restorer of Basque power, the first King of resurrected Navaraa, King Antso IV the Troubadour, died and left it all to his son. His son who talks to fish. The dude has a negative piety per month of -1.31. He is possessed, slothful, greedy, proud, gluttonous, envious, wroth, and cynical. Oh and did I mention gay? Actually, somehow, he has pretty good stats and is a kickass military commander. Things going to get interesting, one month into my new reign I've already been excommunicated. statim fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 21:16
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Which is why its always good to marry off your ticking genetic time bomb tyrannical children to your enemies. I remember reading that I wanted as many titles in my dynasty as possible, but yeah people in my bloodline are just trouble so far. They want it all, man. Can't they see it's mine? I think to a certain extent I'm just gonna have to eat a few more losses before I can get a playthrough where Ireland becomes mine. I just can't predict how it's all gonna play it out. Can't believe people used to live and die by this poo poo.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:19
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Evil Sagan posted:I remember reading that I wanted as many titles in my dynasty as possible, but yeah people in my bloodline are just trouble so far. They want it all, man. Can't they see it's mine? Think of the feudal system as being in the mafia. Soldiers kick up to the capos, capos kick up to the boss. So like Tony Soprano you have to constantly juggle the need to have strong vassals who are good earners or provide lots of troops, and the need to have weak vassals who are easy to kick around.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:27
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And now I've started doing satanic ritual torture on the former Duke of Navarra's wife.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:35
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Evil Sagan posted:I remember reading that I wanted as many titles in my dynasty as possible, but yeah people in my bloodline are just trouble so far. They want it all, man. Can't they see it's mine?  LOSING IS FUN! I think one of my favorite single play throughs was as the Counts of Bearn, where in a period of one of my rulers we went from Counts to Dukes to Holy Roman Emperors. I managed to hold on to that for three generations until I was deposed in favor of my son (who became my played character). Being an infant, I was promptly deposed, but left with the majority of the Kingdom of Burgundy, meanwhile my mother somehow became Queen of France, Aragon and Castile, and was promptly deposed in favor of me, now an adult with four kingdoms! EAT A DICK YOU GERMAN FUCKS.  The story about King Fredrick I of France's father would have been a hysterically depressing wiki entry. Born a Prince of the HRE, elected as Emperor, deposed. Wife becomes Queen of France, deposed. Wife becomes Dutchess of Orleans, deposed. Dies of the plague alone and lonely and title-less. BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 21:37
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Alright, history question, relating to CK2 in that 'Church Vassals are gamey'. It's known that the Church got vast amounts of land during the Medieval era. Why? It's not like the Churches had military force like they do in game(As far as I'm aware, at least).
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Jul 25, 2013 21:42
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Bloodly posted:Alright, history question, relating to CK2 in that 'Church Vassals are gamey'. It's known that the Church got vast amounts of land during the Medieval era. Why? It's not like the Churches had military force like they do in game(As far as I'm aware, at least). They owned vast amounts of land because they had vast amounts of money. They basically conned rulers into giving them over land and then made profit by being landlords. (This is a simplification.)
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Jul 25, 2013 21:44
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Bloodly posted:Alright, history question, relating to CK2 in that 'Church Vassals are gamey'. It's known that the Church got vast amounts of land during the Medieval era. Why? It's not like the Churches had military force like they do in game(As far as I'm aware, at least). A slightly fairer explanation: Nobles would pay for a chapel on some land and prayers for their soul to avoid Purgatory for perpetuity. Modern minds would see this as a con but noone forced them to do this, it was a religious fashion for those who could afford it. Since there were no "generations" to hand these chapels down to, the Church would improve the land (often not the best), brew ale, keep sheep etc to keep the money and prayers going. And build stuff, to spend the money. There you are.
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Jul 26, 2013 00:55
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eh4 posted:A slightly fairer explanation: Nobles would pay for a chapel on some land and prayers for their soul to avoid Purgatory for perpetuity. Modern minds would see this as a con but noone forced them to do this, it was a religious fashion for those who could afford it. Since there were no "generations" to hand these chapels down to, the Church would improve the land (often not the best), brew ale, keep sheep etc to keep the money and prayers going. And build stuff, to spend the money. There you are. Pillars of the Earth covers a bit of this fairly well for a historical fiction novel.
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Jul 26, 2013 01:10
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This is also in a time where hell is a very real thing and not being in it is worth striving for.
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Jul 26, 2013 01:10
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Evil Sagan posted:I remember reading that I wanted as many titles in my dynasty as possible, but yeah people in my bloodline are just trouble so far. They want it all, man. Can't they see it's mine? It varies a lot based on how big your realm and dynasty is. If you've got a pretty small dynasty, the infighting can get pretty fierce when everyone has claims on everyone else's stuff. The crazy shifts that can happen with the Karlings in 867 are a good example of this. Once your dynasty grows, it can become easier to spread titles around since people won't have a claim on their third cousin once removed's duchy like they would on their brother's. And when your dynasty gets REALLY big, you can get crazy stuff like my Scandanavia game where I would land only relatives after each holy war, which resulted in pretty much every noble only being able to marry a distant relative, causing massive sub-empires to start blobbing after a few generations.
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Jul 26, 2013 01:55
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So are church vassals in the game supposed to be proprietary churches? Or is it an abstraction of the actual position of bishop? Also by my understanding, in the early middle ages the church did have its own knights and it wasn't that unusual for a bishop to lead his knights into battle. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 02:00
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Odobenidae posted:CK2+ here: Is every independent muslim ruler in the 1066 start date supposed to be a theocracy? Alright, I've managed to play as them using the console but it says that one of my mosque titles is the wrong type. Is this an undocumented change or is my install of CK2+ just broken completely?
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Jul 26, 2013 02:14
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Odobenidae posted:Alright, I've managed to play as them using the console but it says that one of my mosque titles is the wrong type. Is this an undocumented change or is my install of CK2+ just broken completely? Do you own Sword of Islam?
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Jul 26, 2013 02:47
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Do you own Sword of Islam? Yes, and it is activated in the launcher. This seems to be a problem with CK2+, it labels muslim rulers as theocracies.
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Jul 26, 2013 02:52
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Okay, so some of the stats like Intrigue and Stewardship are best represented by the women in my court. I've seen women take on Council positions in other Duchies, but I can't seem to assign them in my own. And the Council situation here is increasingly grim. Do I need to change the gender preference laws in regards to inheritance to put women on the Council? I sure hope not.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:02
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Cream_Filling posted:So are church vassals in the game supposed to be proprietary churches? Or is it an abstraction of the actual position of bishop? From my general knowledge (which is liable to be innaccurate), I think you would be largely right. Bishops would preside over their episcopal holdings (the resources,buildings, people, etc. of the particular diocese that belonged to the bishop). Without more personal holdings on the part of the bishop, I doubt episcopal holdings would generate too much for warfare other than capital. However, bishops in the medieval ages and beyond could easily be landed persons with immense wealth if the diocese was big or important enough. Under that consideration, one could see how a given bishop could easily be able to call on knights if need be. I would, however, assume that the likelihood of a very powerful bishop becomes larger the closer we get to end of the late medieval age and into the renaissance and early-modern era. In the early medieval ages, I daresay that huge powerful bishops would be the exception rather than the norm.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:04
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Evil Sagan posted:Okay, so some of the stats like Intrigue and Stewardship are best represented by the women in my court. I've seen women take on Council positions in other Duchies, but I can't seem to assign them in my own. And the Council situation here is increasingly grim. Do I need to change the gender preference laws in regards to inheritance to put women on the Council? I sure hope not. You can only appoint your wife or your mother to council positions, at least without modding. Even then I think they can only be your spymaster (but don't quote me on that). But mods to change that kind of thing (and make absolute cognatic succession available to non-Basques, etc -- generally making men and women equal) are pretty plentiful, and can generally be applied games that are already in progress without issue, if you want to use one.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:08
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Bloodly posted:Alright, history question, relating to CK2 in that 'Church Vassals are gamey'. It's known that the Church got vast amounts of land during the Medieval era. Why? It's not like the Churches had military force like they do in game(As far as I'm aware, at least). I think that sometimes when a landholding noble died, they would leave some land to the church. Then consider all of the landholders dying over the course of a dozen generations all over Cataholic Europe along with the fact that the church never died and just held onto everything it gained in perpetuity. Or, at least until it no longer had enough clout to scare countries into not seizing church land anymore.
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Jul 26, 2013 03:38
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