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Jibo posted:Was the stage Fan Castle? Because there are a few places you can just walk through walls there. I assume so, I remember playing it a few days ago and the camera was constantly flying through walls and floors and at one point I almost fell through the world.
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Jul 25, 2013 04:14
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Hope they also dropped a quick fix on a certain spot in Yiling.
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Jul 25, 2013 04:24
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Jibo posted:I've been working towards getting Red Hare / the elephant for a little while now on Beginner and it makes me feel like there is no loving way I'm going to try max difficulty missions on Hard/Chaos. It's not really difficult or anything but every duel mode stage takes about 10 minutes with the majority of that time being spent wailing away on the same one or two gatekeepers for what seems like an eternity as their half a screen long health bar slowly shrinks down. If you want to make this easier on yourself, after you unlock all the base symbols duel maps stop triggering. This is both useful (makes grinding 100 faster) and annoying (if you still have playable officers to recruit you'll have to get them one at a time). Or you can just use throwing knives and trigger your rage mode every five seconds.
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Jul 25, 2013 05:47
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Finished historical Shu tonight. I liked the random soldier that Liu Bei saved that shows up before every battle to talk. Dude must be the luckiest guy ever to survive that long.
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Jul 25, 2013 06:06
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So, I've beaten the historicals, started fighting my way through the ambition *zzzzzzzzzzz* and am left... wanting. Mechanically this game is sound. Although it's honestly a wee bit overloaded with weapons. Shut up about clones, I'd prefer clones to having to sort through 77 different weapons to remember what's upgraded and what's not. The combat is some of the most responsive of any DW I've played, even if the weapons generally end up feeling generically close to one another a lot of the time. The biggest thing I'm noticing is that I honestly wish that they hadn't included the Hypothetical. Seriously, they're basically entirely a-historical fan fiction from somebody who thought Kessen II was a work of art. If they'd taken the time and money that was put into the Historicals, and instead used that to make the "historical" side of things significantly more joined together, you'd probably end up with a much better game overall. Just those five levels inserted into the game to make better connections between the battles, and adding in voice narration to explain wtf was going on in the interim, and you'd have a game that held itself together much better, compared to the "well, these levels are connected, kinda. Don't ask where that officer went, we don't like questions here!" Akin to the above, I feel like they needed to somehow adjust the storylines. The Jin story feels utterly disconnected with the other kingdoms, even though the fights taking place are with characters in the other kingdoms. Shu's story starts at the Turban Rebellion, and runs through Wu Zhang... but the characters in Shu continue to participate in many of the battles against Jin, and these characters only have a very small number of battles they're a part of. I mean part of me understands why Jin is there (the period ended because of the Jin dynasty), but in terms of the game it just feels like the Jin are tacked on, almost like they should be half the length and the full title being "Musou Epilogue: Jin!" The other major thing is the AI. On normal, the game just doesn't want to attack you. The only time you feel threatened is when 3 or more officers are in a crowd attacking you because the officer AI will use the opening from you attacking their bud to slice at you. At the same time however, in Ambition mode, the AI will NOT release a base to you without three dead base captains. It just becomes a slog and removes your desire to play the game. Calax fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 09:47
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Yea, honestly, I still think 7 is the better game. The story felt more cohesive, and the missing battle with Xiahou Dun losing his eye was a downer for me. Actually, the whole Wei story just felt like it was just kind of... there. I haven't finished Jin yet, but even it feels worse than 7. I haven't touched Ambition mode yet, so I have no comment on that.
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Jul 25, 2013 09:52
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Calax posted:Musou Orochi of Thrones? Littlefinger & Sima Yi teamup. Liu Bei & Ned Stark. Cao Cao and Tywin Lannister. ...okay, I'll stop this horrible derail, but add that I'm stunned that there really hasn't been any sort of Western adaptation of the RoTK material. Cultural sensitivities, perhaps? quote:The story felt more cohesive, and the missing battle with Xiahou Dun losing his eye was a downer for me. Uhh, that scene is in the game and there's a cutscene, even! There's some stages which you have to go in and unlock, or that will be unlocked but you won't play through for whatever reason. It's dumb and unintuitive, but it's there. And agreed on DW7. It honestly felt like a Coles Notes version of RoTK.
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Jul 25, 2013 10:27
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Joining the "DW7 was more awesome" parade. Hoping 9 is the best of both worldsCalax posted:Mechanically this game is sound. Although it's honestly a wee bit overloaded with weapons. Shut up about clones, I'd prefer clones to having to sort through 77 different weapons to remember what's upgraded and what's not. The combat is some of the most responsive of any DW I've played, even if the weapons generally end up feeling generically close to one another a lot of the time. Calax posted:The biggest thing I'm noticing is that I honestly wish that they hadn't included the Hypothetical. Seriously, they're basically entirely a-historical fan fiction from somebody who thought Kessen II was a work of art. Maybe if it lives were effectively traded, so say Sun Quan having to sacrifice his life in order to have his brother or Lu Meng giving time for Zhou Yu to retreat and nurse himself back to health, and then looking at how the kingdom is changed philisophically and such by that. Less of a "what if I win" but more of a "What if I traded". Calax posted:If they'd taken the time and money that was put into the Historicals, and instead used that to make the "historical" side of things significantly more joined together, you'd probably end up with a much better game overall. Just those five levels inserted into the game to make better connections between the battles, and adding in voice narration to explain wtf was going on in the interim, and you'd have a game that held itself together much better, compared to the "well, these levels are connected, kinda. Don't ask where that officer went, we don't like questions here!" Calax posted:The other major thing is the AI. On normal, the game just doesn't want to attack you. The only time you feel threatened is when 3 or more officers are in a crowd attacking you because the officer AI will use the opening from you attacking their bud to slice at you. At the same time however, in Ambition mode, the AI will NOT release a base to you without three dead base captains. It just becomes a slog and removes your desire to play the game. Also favourite musou? personal favourite is Han Dang's air. Just made me say  first time I used it.
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Jul 25, 2013 10:31
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PureRok posted:Yea, honestly, I still think 7 is the better game. The story felt more cohesive, and the missing battle with Xiahou Dun losing his eye was a downer for me. Actually, the whole Wei story just felt like it was just kind of... there. I haven't finished Jin yet, but even it feels worse than 7. I haven't touched Ambition mode yet, so I have no comment on that. I finished all story modes last week myself and kind of felt they must've went slack on some familiar story elements in order to ensure face time for all the new characters. New characters which overall I didn't feel were that great- either for their characterization, or the weapons they introduced. Karma is balanced however, yesterday I started watching the 2010 Three Kingdoms on Youtube.
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Jul 25, 2013 14:13
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Jin felt kinda disconnected in 7 too, honestly. The thing is historically the Sun, Liu, and Cao clans mismanaged themselves into oblivion while the Sima clan rose up and just facestomped everyone. It's hard to make an engaging storyline about a kingdom that mainly only had to worry about dissent from within since their main enemies were in the midst of withering into nothing. Man, the fourth book of Three Kingdoms was the hardest to get through. Everyone I cared about was either long dead or too old to fight by that point in history.
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Jul 25, 2013 14:36
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Looking at the DW7 costumes in DW8, I'd like to say that I find the great majority of them really tacky compared to the slightly less crazy fantasy armor in DW8. The DW8 costumes really remind me of the good stuff from DW4 and 5, so my perspective my be a bit skewed. Example: Zhou Tai's DW7 costume looks like an American football player.
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Jul 25, 2013 17:11
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Looking at the DW7 costumes in DW8, I'd like to say that I find the great majority of them really tacky compared to the slightly less crazy fantasy armor in DW8. The DW8 costumes really remind me of the good stuff from DW4 and 5, so my perspective my be a bit skewed. Example: Zhou Tai's DW7 costume looks like an American football player. I was thinking exactly this, comparing Guan Yu's 7 and 8 outfits. 8's outfits are still ridiculously embellished and ornate, but just more practical looking. And Ding Feng looks like a perfect badass with that ponytail.
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Jul 25, 2013 17:25
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OatmealRaisin posted:Jin felt kinda disconnected in 7 too, honestly. The thing is historically the Sun, Liu, and Cao clans mismanaged themselves into oblivion while the Sima clan rose up and just facestomped everyone. It's hard to make an engaging storyline about a kingdom that mainly only had to worry about dissent from within since their main enemies were in the midst of withering into nothing. It felt more connected because the characters showed up in Wei's campaigns (specifically Sima Yi), in 8 he shows up for one fight outside of his actual story.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:58
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It's already been told in this thread but it needs repeating: both cutscenes after Jin-Defeat the rebels are the best cutscenes.
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Jul 26, 2013 01:36
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Dantes posted:It's already been told in this thread but it needs repeating: both cutscenes after Jin-Defeat the rebels are the best cutscenes. This man speaks the truth. (Mwahahahaha!)
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Jul 26, 2013 02:54
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Even if I really like DW8, I still found myself getting a used copy of DW7 to experience the story proper. (yes I know about the 2010 series I will get to it eventually shut up)
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Jul 26, 2013 04:04
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Maleketh posted:This man speaks the truth. (Mwahahahaha!) The Sima family/spouses are just hilarious in general. Demon mom Zhang Chunhua just makes it better. This may or may not be related to my overwhelming joy in destroying Shu in DW7 
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Jul 26, 2013 04:34
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Dj Meow Mix posted:The Sima family/spouses are just hilarious in general. Demon mom Zhang Chunhua just makes it better. This may or may not be related to my overwhelming joy in destroying Shu in DW7
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Jul 26, 2013 05:08
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Unlucky7 posted:Even if I really like DW8, I still found myself getting a used copy of DW7 to experience the story proper. (yes I know about the 2010 series I will get to it eventually shut up) 
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Jul 26, 2013 05:39
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Dj Meow Mix posted:The Sima family/spouses are just hilarious in general. Demon mom Zhang Chunhua just makes it better. This may or may not be related to my overwhelming joy in destroying Shu in DW7 Shu is just so goddamned retarded I can't help but hate them in this iteration. They were verging there with BENEVOLENCE in DW7, but man. The map where you have to rescue Ma Su was ridiculous, particularly the ending cutscene. Ma Su: "I hosed up, I should be punished." Zhuge Liang: "No, it was my decision to post you here, it was not your fault." Some of the other Shu idiots: "We were able to engage in a battle with Zhang He as a result of your gently caress-up..." Another Shu idiot: "As a result, Ma Su should be rewarded. After all, it would be the benevolent thing to do." It was surreal. 
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Jul 26, 2013 12:12
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Shu was always the lamest kingdom. Buncha mary sues.
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Jul 26, 2013 12:17
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At this point I suspect that it's deliberate character sabotage by a Wei fan on the writing team, that's how bad Shu is in DW7-8. (The point is, read The Ravages of Time dammit)
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Jul 26, 2013 12:23
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Chortles posted:At this point I suspect that it's deliberate character sabotage by a Wei fan on the writing team, that's how bad Shu is in DW7-8. (The point is, read The Ravages of Time dammit) Nah, the problem is that Shu goes into one hell of a tailspin the further you go in the novel and there's not a lot of redeeming characters for them. I mean, you have Jiang Wei, an overzealous strategist who basically brought the end to Shu thanks to his recklessness, a guy who was spiked like a football when he was an infant in Liu Shan, and...yeah. There's no one really on the level of Deng Ai for Shu and once you stretch past Zhuge Liang's death, things are going to look bleak by default. The fact that things went so wrong (both historically and in the novel) for Shu just makes it look so bad as a result. That said, there's some really bad/cheesy moments with Shu, even for a Dynasty Warriors game. Perdido fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 12:42
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Samurai Sanders posted:How is her line to the effect of "it's actually refreshing having things not go my way for once" translated in the English? That's my favorite line of hers. It's something to the effect "This isn't going my way? How refreshing... I'll see you again" or something like that. So far all of her conversations have me chuckling for some reason or another, looking forward to playing Jin's storyline tonight. Perdido posted:That said, there's some really bad/cheesy moments with Shu, even for a Dynasty Warriors game. Like forcing Jiang Wei to betray his forces by framing him, or overthrowing family to establish a kingdom, or not honoring the return of Jing Province and still being able to talk about benevolence? I always hate playing their storyline the most, even though I've started to like some of their second generation units (Xingcai, Zhang Bao and Guan Xing).
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Jul 26, 2013 13:08
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Honestly, making Jiang Wei the main villain of the Jin arc was one of the better storytelling decisions of DW from 7 onwards. It makes it clearer that you're supposed to dislike him and his buddies (particularly once he teams up with Zhong Hui and gets Deng Ai killed). I kind of appreciated having poor Liu Shan as the only sane man, too - his surrender to Wei/Jin being treated as a defining act of heroism felt like a sort of abstract revenge against Shu's baby-dunking BENEVOLENCE. Besides, Wei may not have all the cool characters, but it certainly has most of them. Case in point: Zhang Liao.
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Jul 26, 2013 13:19
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Dj Meow Mix posted:I always hate playing their storyline the most, even though I've started to like some of their second generation units (Xingcai, Zhang Bao and Guan Xing). In terms of moveset or otherwise? I've pretty much tried to ignore the fact that the Blood Brothers' kids were anything important and played them in Free Mode and Ambition Mode almost exclusively. Guan Yinping, while being a hamfisted depiction of anime ditz, has a hilarious moveset involving an attack speed buff (which I recall is EX only) and Mario Party-ing the left stick like it was 1998.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:03
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:In terms of moveset or otherwise? I've pretty much tried to ignore the fact that the Blood Brothers' kids were anything important and played them in Free Mode and Ambition Mode almost exclusively. Guan Yinping, while being a hamfisted depiction of anime ditz, has a hilarious moveset involving an attack speed buff (which I recall is EX only) and Mario Party-ing the left stick like it was 1998. Movesets with EX mostly, Xingcai's for example is a buff as well which makes her musou set ups ridiculous if you can get folks into a corner. Does twirling the stick make Yinping's musou better or just make using the dual mace better? I found it underwhelming so I haven't used her more than once.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:08
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Dj Meow Mix posted:Movesets with EX mostly, Xingcai's for example is a buff as well which makes her musou set ups ridiculous if you can get folks into a corner. Does twirling the stick make Yinping's musou better or just make using the dual mace better? I found it underwhelming so I haven't used her more than once. It extends her C3, C5, and C6 to do stupidly high crowd control damage in a short amount of time, like Wei Yan's double voulge but with more Storm Rush-triggering hits and damage but less movement. No effect on musous as far as I know, Wei Yan's musous are better. edit: Which of Xingcai's musous take out officers faster? How about those weapon properties? Am I to surmise that Explosive, Slash, Flurry, Velocity, Thorns, and Cyclone are generally the best ones or are there other situational properties people have enjoyed? Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 14:13
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:No effect on musous as far as I know, Wei Yan's musous are better. Yinping's default musou is total garbage. Her aerial one's pretty solid but good luck getting it anywhere near a combo. Don't know about her alternate. I've kind of stopped using musous entirely, though, unless I need to escape the telltale 'schwoom' noise of another officer doing one. Rage all the way, and hers is pretty great.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:25
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Stelas posted:Yinping's default musou is total garbage. Her aerial one's pretty solid but good luck getting it anywhere near a combo. Don't know about her alternate. Her alternate is a single-target grab, and it does...middling damage on that target, kind of a waste of several seconds if you're pressed to complete an objective quickly. Yeah, Rage now is really what early PlayStation 2 musou attacks did back in the day, all you had to hit was the circle button  Now it's the "avoid getting two-shot" button or "turn horse into rocket" button.Speaking of which, Xiahou Ba's moveset,  even if it's not the most efficient thing in the world.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:37
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Perdido posted:Nah, the problem is that Shu goes into one hell of a tailspin the further you go in the novel and there's not a lot of redeeming characters for them. Then again, I imagine that part of the more problem with Shu in the series is how "benevolence" is standing in for "uphold the principle of a sovereign emperor and the 'legitimacy' of the Han Dynasty with divine right", even if/though both DW7 and DW8's Wei stories have Cao Cao profess loyalty to the Emperor, DW7's Wei story shows the Emperor as not exactly competent/inspiring/deserving of such loyalty and DW8 outright has the Emperor more outwardly give Cao Cao his blessing... whatever the hell Liu Bei and Shu's "virtue" was supposed to mean in the 1600s-1700s and in the centuries before the novel, it doesn't nearly translate as well to our sense of right and wrong as well as the themes behind the Wei and Wu stories do, hence why I suspect that Koei went with "benevolence"/"virtue" (jin in Japanese/ren in Chinese -- yes, as in Cao Ren -- being the kanji/hanzi that keeps getting translated as "benevolence").
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Jul 26, 2013 14:59
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:No effect on musous as far as I know, Wei Yan's musous are better. edit: Which of Xingcai's musous take out officers faster? Her normal ground one pushes huge crowds with it's deceptively wide range and if they're on the wall, bounces them high enough that you can follow up sometimes. Air musou gives a stun buff which is useful if you can't get around guards easily. Chortles posted:Then again, I imagine that part of the more problem with Shu in the series is how "benevolence" is standing in for "uphold the principle of a sovereign emperor and the 'legitimacy' of the Han Dynasty with divine right", I guess that makes more sense, but why wouldn't they just use 'loyalty' or something? I guess every side has their take on the word but it would put the point across.
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Jul 26, 2013 15:15
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The issue is that it still doesn't solve the problem that in modern interpretation, the early Shu characters even up to the Five Tiger Generals years is just seen as more "romantic" and--yeah, you know what, what the hell, I ought to be reading Ravages of Time and watching the 2010 show as well 
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Jul 26, 2013 15:19
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Hey, cool! I made that gif back when I made the (short-lived) TVIV thread for the 2010 show. Seriously, anyone with even a passing interest in the Three Kingdoms story should watch that show, it's amazing. I don't think its available in English on DVD anywhere, but the JiangHu translation is really impressively done. Here's another of Zhao Yun being a bad-rear end, if someone needs further convincing: http://i.imgur.com/OX5N0QX.gif
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Jul 26, 2013 15:47
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Man, I really want to watch this show now. It looks awesome!
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Jul 26, 2013 19:10
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TooManyUzukis posted:Hey, cool! I made that gif back when I made the (short-lived) TVIV thread for the 2010 show. Seriously, anyone with even a passing interest in the Three Kingdoms story should watch that show, it's amazing. I don't think its available in English on DVD anywhere, but the JiangHu translation is really impressively done. I'm six episodes deep and like I was saying earlier, it's such a refreshing break from the convolutions of the DW game. I know that Cao Cao is an opportunistic, treacherous jerk, but I can't help but like him.
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Jul 26, 2013 21:15
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Dj Meow Mix posted:I guess that makes more sense, but why wouldn't they just use 'loyalty' or something? I guess every side has their take on the word but it would put the point across. Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:The issue is that it still doesn't solve the problem that in modern interpretation, the early Shu characters even up to the Five Tiger Generals years is just seen as more "romantic" and--yeah, you know what, what the hell, I ought to be reading Ravages of Time and watching the 2010 show as well Zhang Fei for Mayor (In contrast, in The Ravages of Time he's the one pulling the strings behind the Peach Garden Oath Brotherhood!) Speaking of loyalty, The Ravages of Time spends a noticeable portion of its pages punting traditional "loyalty" in the groin repeatedly and all of that punting is amazing. Oh, and speaking of Zhao Yun being a bad-rear end... (I find this the most "standalone" chapter since it's the RoT version of Changban; as for the identity cliffhanger at the end... who do you know from Dynasty Warriors who can shut children up with his name?  )
Chortles fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 22:34
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Chortles posted:Therein lies the problem: Loyalty to what? Which I believe just winds back up at what I said "benevolence"/"virtue" were standing in for... Cao Cao conveys the nature of his ambition in 7 and 8 very clearly, the Sun clan seems to be about "family and friends", but what Liu Bei in particular is supposed to stand for in the novel doesn't translate nearly as well, hence why the DW versions come off as so vapid (no wonder some DW fans on Tumblr complain about what it's done to Sun Shangxiang's characterization in the process). Using loyalty's ambiguous definition for each side could be a cool plot point in later games since they all contrast very well. I really need to read Ravages of Time after I finish the TV series.
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Jul 26, 2013 23:19
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So Omega Force finally went ahead and made Wei Yan Blanka, Huang Gai into Zhangief and Xu Shu into the three kingdoms-period assasin from china (all three of these things are awesome). Just finished the Shu storyline and decided to mess around with ambition mode. Got Lu Bu on the first battle Does anyone have any tips for getting materials?
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Jul 26, 2013 23:57
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Vincent posted:So Omega Force finally went ahead and made Wei Yan Blanka, Huang Gai into Zhangief and Xu Shu into the three kingdoms-period assasin from china (all three of these things are awesome). Just finished the Shu storyline and decided to mess around with ambition mode. Got Lu Bu on the first battle Xiahou Ba's rare 1-star weapon is called Kingdom Crasher, if that does anything for you. And grind material battles. A lot. Don't worry about ally quests or Fame quests, those you get along the way anyways. Make sure to blow up boxes and jars in those quests and kill minor officers to grab more materials. Doing multiples of them in a row gets you the high multipliers (and enemies that are giant balloons of HP) for more rewards. Finally, once you have enough allies the Merchant shack will pop up and allow you to exchange weapon materials for facility materials or the other way around.
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Jul 27, 2013 00:14
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