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Am I crazy or did the guy talking to shunsui when he came to Karakura about the news that Ichigo cant come back also look like Aizen? At least when Aizen still had his hair down.
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Jul 26, 2013 14:58
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^ Keigo Aizen is perhaps the most villainous of them all. Also, I'm pretty sure it isn't bed Aizen being referred to but Shadow Aizen, seen here: http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/480/10 It doesn't really look like Bed Aizen to me, though it's an obvious Quincy. I think he's actually breaking hollow bait right there too, which suggests he intentionally ambushed the two shinigami introduced in that chapter that Ichigo and co saved. For some reason.
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Jul 26, 2013 15:56
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SerSpook posted:Also, I'm pretty sure it isn't bed Aizen being referred to but Shadow Aizen, seen here: If that's supposed to be Ebern/Ivan (The aforementioned no-sell'd guy) then Kubo sucks for not making a show of things and explicitly revealing it, thus wasting a perfectly good Mystery.  But unless he changed his mind about the guy's clothes, face, and hair one chapter later (There are a slew of differences I've already gone over somewhere in the thread) I don't think it's him. Also that guy stuck to the shadows and avoided being discovered, whereas Ebern pretty much abandoned that strategy when he strolled right up to Ichigo's bedroom window. Hell, he actually tried to pique Ichigo's curiosity, but Ichigo shot him down. 
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Jul 26, 2013 18:07
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just sped thru yu yu hakusho and my word bleach certainly is inspired. it's like a retake, but with feudal japan instead of ogre secretaries. i enjoy both for all their Badass moments. the pacing issue doesnt come up in yyh so thats a plus for it but kubo can really put out some really good pages too when he feels up to it.
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Jul 26, 2013 22:31
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i know from first glance its already obvious but its so blatant when youve gone through both series.
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Jul 26, 2013 22:33
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Silver2195 posted:Urahara was shown messing with a Quincy medallion, so he'll probably come up with a way to counter the bankai stealing. Urahara remains the only competent character in the series.
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Jul 26, 2013 23:31
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Lamebot posted:i know from first glance its already obvious but its so blatant when youve gone through both series. It's the reason why the first chapter looks different from the rest. Kubo did that chapter first, they turned it down for being too similar to YYH, then he did four books of Zombie Powder and came back. Kubo can't get away with Togashi's current level of bullshit though on Hunter X Hunter "We'll never get rid of you Togashi, but please draw some comics, please"
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Jul 27, 2013 02:11
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chefscientist posted:It's the reason why the first chapter looks different from the rest. Kubo did that chapter first, they turned it down for being too similar to YYH, then he did four books of Zombie Powder and came back. Kubo can't get away with Togashi's current level of bullshit though on Hunter X Hunter "We'll never get rid of you Togashi, but please draw some comics, please" Hunter x Hunter is legitimately the best shounen manga out currently. But yeah, I've never thought of it, but Bleach and YYH are very similar.
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Jul 27, 2013 02:21
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KittyEmpress posted:Hunter x Hunter is legitimately the best shounen manga out currently. For a certain definition of "currently".
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Jul 27, 2013 02:45
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KittyEmpress posted:Hunter x Hunter is legitimately the best shounen manga out currently. theres even a rogue agent arc in both
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Jul 27, 2013 04:08
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Lamebot posted:theres even a rogue agent arc in both Speaking of, I know it's filler, so we can't blame Kubo on this one, but the Bount arc starts off pretty much identically to Chapter Black. there is a small team of "bad guys" who the heros fight, who all have unique, conditional style powers, and the it turns out those dudes aren't the bad guys at all. They were just hired by the main character's mentor (Genkai, Urahara) to prepare them for the REAL badguys of the arc (the Bount, Shisui's dudes). The difference being that Chapter Black was loving awesome and the Bount arc sort of blew. Well, in the timeframe it was released it did anyway. On average it probably fares a whole lot better now we have more Bleach to compare it to.
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Jul 27, 2013 04:31
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well now that we're talking about the bount filler arc: the anime for yyh and bleach were directed by the same guy, noriyuki abe
Lamebot fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 05:05
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Lamebot posted:theres even a rogue agent arc in both And Bleach's tournament arcs are so similar. Bleach and YYH really don't have any similarities that aren't common in most shonen. Now if you had said like Flame Of Recca(My second favorite shonen manga) is essentially YYH then sure. But Bleach loses it's similarity once you hit Soul Society. I guess if you want to mention Chapter Black you may have some point. Then again the Fullbringer arc shouldn't mentioned in the same sentence as the name of that arc.
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Jul 27, 2013 05:50
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Prison Warden posted:Speaking of, I know it's filler, so we can't blame Kubo on this one, but the Bount arc starts off pretty much identically to Chapter Black. there is a small team of "bad guys" who the heros fight, who all have unique, conditional style powers, and the it turns out those dudes aren't the bad guys at all. They were just hired by the main character's mentor (Genkai, Urahara) to prepare them for the REAL badguys of the arc (the Bount, Shisui's dudes). I may be the odd man out on this one but somehow I liked the Bount arc. It dealt with a Ichigo in doubt of his growing power because of his fight with Byakuya and a Ishida in fear that he could never help his friends again after sacrificing his power in his fight against Mayuri. Also (apart from the other filler arcs) this arc had some lasting effects within the animes cannon after it was over. Hell, I put more points to this arc just for the fact that it didn't rope Ichigo's bloodline in with the Bounts.
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Jul 27, 2013 16:23
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QuasiQuack posted:Kira was literally the only character I wanted to survive, anyone else could've been free game for all I care, but Kira was so awesome. Just keep reminding yourself that Rangiku survived a similar wound!  Of course, that requires forgetting that the only reason she survived was because Kira was there to use his ex-Squad 4 skills on her...
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Jul 27, 2013 17:45
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Jesus Christ.  I'd forgotten how incredibly graphic that scene was. That's like the very edge of what's allowable in a shonen magazine. And, thinking about it, Kubo's done some pretty dark/creepy violent scenes in Bleach and Zombie Powder-- I'll always remember when Gamma showed off the evil rings and it sprouted tons of these tentacles with little hands that burrowed under his fingernails and crept up his arm under the skin. Brr! Gives me chills just thinking about it. Whatever he does next, I hope he does a seinen manga where he can get away with more stuff like that -- maybe he should try for a monthly serial in Shonen Jump Plus or whatever it was that Claymore was serialized in. I think he'd be excellent at it.
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Jul 27, 2013 18:00
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Pooptimus Prime posted:Just keep reminding yourself that Rangiku survived a similar wound! And don't forget Hiyori was literally cut in half
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Jul 27, 2013 19:00
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And then the fact that Uryuu had his arm torn off, and Hollow Ichigo basically blasted Ulquiorra into bits. Oh, and everything that was left of Yamamoto was just his torn up arm.
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Jul 28, 2013 04:54
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And don't forget poor Momo, who got stabbed through the chest by her crush and than her childhood friend. Who apparently dropped her while he was in mid-air? I never understood what happened here:  Haha I haven't followed this manga in forever. 
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Jul 28, 2013 07:05
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It always kind of pissed me off that Ichigo was standing right there while Momo got brutally attacked by pretty much everyone and only bothered to say "What are you guys doing?!" after the presumed killshot was made. I mean there's an argument to be made that Aizen made it so Ichigo's pleading didn't get through, but we didn't even really get a sign of that. It was just Ichigo standing there going "Maybe I should say something? Maybe this is part of the plan? Nah, I better say something".
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Jul 28, 2013 15:27
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Emery posted:It always kind of pissed me off that Ichigo was standing right there while Momo got brutally attacked by pretty much everyone and only bothered to say "What are you guys doing?!" after the presumed killshot was made. I mean there's an argument to be made that Aizen made it so Ichigo's pleading didn't get through, but we didn't even really get a sign of that. It was just Ichigo standing there going "Maybe I should say something? Maybe this is part of the plan? Nah, I better say something". I imagine that in his head it was a lot like the joke by Louise C.K. about the guy on a bike.
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Jul 28, 2013 16:39
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That fight didn't make a lot of sense in general. At which point did Aizen switch out with her? Unless Momo is secretly a badass there's no way that was her fighting the Captains and Vizards. I think the only work I can recall that handled a character with ultimate mind-gently caress illusion powers well was Neil Gaiman's Sandman series. Also, has Momo gotten her magic organ replacement surgery yet? I remember that being mentioned like, 100 chapters ago.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:57
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The only thing I can even remember about Momo is the following exchange:Momo posted:something something Aizen-san can't really be all that bad, he must have been mind-controlled, blah, blah, who gives a gently caress. Everyone else in Soul Society posted:I wonder did she (re: the audience) notice that she's still calling him -san. I didn't the first time, presumably because I don't care about her or anything related to her - it didn't need to be pointed out the other god knows how many times she did it though. Every time she appears following Aizen's supposed death in Soul Society this exchange appears to happen. I hate everything about Momo and I've never wanted a manga character to die so badly just for being so skull-fuckingly stupid and blind to everything around her. No.44 posted:That fight didn't make a lot of sense in general. At which point did Aizen switch out with her? Unless Momo is secretly a badass there's no way that was her fighting the Captains and Vizards. I think the only work I can recall that handled a character with ultimate mind-gently caress illusion powers well was Neil Gaiman's Sandman series. I would presume that he was mind-controlling everyone around him in to thinking they were fighting in a given way when really they were probably all swinging at thin air until he decided he'd had enough of it and threw Momo in to be their human pincushion. No real reason that anyone needed to have been their target at all that I can see. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 22:09
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Emery posted:It always kind of pissed me off that Ichigo was standing right there while Momo got brutally attacked by pretty much everyone and only bothered to say "What are you guys doing?!" after the presumed killshot was made. I mean there's an argument to be made that Aizen made it so Ichigo's pleading didn't get through, but we didn't even really get a sign of that. It was just Ichigo standing there going "Maybe I should say something? Maybe this is part of the plan? Nah, I better say something". Really, what's he going to do? Jump into the middle of the fight?
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Jul 28, 2013 22:56
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tsob posted:I didn't the first time, presumably because I don't care about her or anything related to her - it didn't need to be pointed out the other god knows how many times she did it though. Every time she appears following Aizen's supposed death in Soul Society this exchange appears to happen. I hate everything about Momo and I've never wanted a manga character to die so badly just for being so skull-fuckingly stupid and blind to everything around her. I was disappointed Momo didn't end up being a secret traitor that was still in league with Aizen (Maybe she could have been a crazy yandare type.) But since she wasn't, it meant we never got to see at least one female traitor Shinigami outfit. Kubo you lazy gently caress I think even if she did let Aizen out of jail at this point, it would just be some kind of mind control failsafe instead of her own free will. Though at least then she'd be doing something, why is she even still alive? Is she that popular in character polls? Or is she just a convenient way to fill a Lieutenant slot without needing to make a new character? I think the last time she kind of showed any real emotion or had any serious interest in events was when Aizen's fake body was first discovered and she tried to attack Gin. She never seemed quite as passionate after that, and after Aizen 'killed' her the first time she hasn't done much of anything.
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Jul 28, 2013 23:44
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tsob posted:I would presume that he was mind-controlling everyone around him in to thinking they were fighting in a given way when really they were probably all swinging at thin air until he decided he'd had enough of it and threw Momo in to be their human pincushion. No real reason that anyone needed to have been their target at all that I can see. Why didn't he just have them all gang up on Ichigo? Oh wait I know why it's because that would've actually been a practical thing to do.  I know I'm being a bit too optimistic here, but I'm kind of hoping that the reason we haven't seen Momo in so long is because it's going to be revealed that Aizen pulled another switcharoo when the Quincies wrecked the poo poo out of the prison. Because Momo being stuck a in Nazi!Ghost dungeon while Aizen's chilling in Soul Society and being all  at all the poo poo that is hitting the fan would be the funniest thing ever.
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Jul 28, 2013 23:45
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Zogundar posted:I was disappointed Momo didn't end up being a secret traitor that was still in league with Aizen (Maybe she could have been a crazy yandare type.) But since she wasn't, it meant we never got to see at least one female traitor Shinigami outfit. Kubo you lazy gently caress During the Fake Karakura Town arc, she claimed to have gotten over her obsession with Aizen (although Rangiku noted that she was still respective in the way she referred to him). Then she teamed up with Rangiku to fight Harribel's Fracciones. She showed off some cool tricks involving kido.
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Jul 29, 2013 00:14
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No.44 posted:Why didn't he just have them all gang up on Ichigo? Oh wait I know why it's because that would've actually been a practical thing to do. Aizen planned to eat an Ichigo that had grown much more powerful or something, similar to how hollow eat other hollow to become more powerful. Or that's what my interpretation of the events always was; Aizen talks about eating Ichigo at one point, following him growing a mullet but before wings. Plus all the talk about how Ichigo's reiatsu has become quite well developed, how his development was in the palm of his hand or some poo poo, etc. If Ichigo's theory is right, Aizen wanted someone strong to fight or some such poo poo, which isn't nearly as acceptable a reason. eta: There's also the bit about how Aizen fed his hougyoko to Urahara's, and one popular theory about Ichigo is that he's essentially a living hougyoko himself. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 13:19
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No.44 posted:Why didn't he just have them all gang up on Ichigo? Oh wait I know why it's because that would've actually been a practical thing to do. Aizen's powerups came every time someone pushed him to a limit. Isshin's fight finally activated the crystalis stage; Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi pushed his metamorphosis forward; Gin's bankai turned him godmode. He kept giving Ichigo opportunities to get stronger because it would raise his own limits. The hougyoko basically 'evolved' Aizen every time he was surpassed. Ichigo just reached a level so much higher that it couldn't keep up. Zogundar posted:I think the last time she kind of showed any real emotion or had any serious interest in events was when Aizen's fake body was first discovered and she tried to attack Gin. She never seemed quite as passionate after that, and after Aizen 'killed' her the first time she hasn't done much of anything. She is one of the very few characters to be skilled with kido and actually use it consistently in a fight. Her attack where she basically webbed an explosive kido with a cloaking kido around the three bitch fraccions was unique and cool as hell.
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Jul 29, 2013 16:36
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SerSpook posted:Aizen planned to eat an Ichigo that had grown much more powerful or something, similar to how hollow eat other hollow to become more powerful. Or that's what my interpretation of the events always was; Aizen talks about eating Ichigo at one point, following him growing a mullet but before wings. Plus all the talk about how Ichigo's reiatsu has become quite well developed, how his development was in the palm of his hand or some poo poo, etc. I don't recall that first part, was that after Aizen and Gin went to Karakura? cause that's pretty much the point where I lost interest. I had finally accepted the fact that Kubo would never get the guts to kill off even a single one of the protagonists and Aizen's plan would continue to be inexplicably more complex than: 1. Flash sword at Ichigo. 2. Make everyone think they are on fire. 3. Throw a fancy tea party while waiting for zero squad to intervene. 4. Repeat step 2. And yeah, Ichigo's theory about Aizen's motives doesn't really hold up when Aizen made it pretty clear that he does really want to destroy the Spirit King. I do really like the theory about Ichigo being some sort of hougyoko though. It would make sense and also explain why he's such a Gary-Stu.
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Jul 29, 2013 19:21
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I was worried that I'd not be able to find it, or it'd take way too much time to really bother with, but it was pretty quick. http://www.mangapanda.com/94-52554-20/bleach/chapter-406.html It isn't necessarily a literal devouring, but it's implied. Whether that's the translation or not I don't know.
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Jul 30, 2013 15:35
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No.44 posted:I had finally accepted the fact that Kubo would never get the guts to kill off even a single one of the protagonists Why do so many people think that main characters dying is a necessity for good fiction? Sure it can be shocking and can lead to interesting story developments, but I don't see how characters staying alive can be seen to affect the quality of a shonen manga. Bleach is all kinds of flawed, but main characters being (ghost) alive is not why.
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Jul 30, 2013 17:02
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I would say in the case of Bleach it's bad because it leads to cast bloat and because it runs contrary to the kind of tone that Kubo appears to want to establish, that of a dramatic and at times rather serious story about large scale conflicts. When there's no possibility of death in the struggles going on though, it neuters a lot of the suspense that Kubo is trying to instill in the story in the first place. I don't mind that there's no death in One Piece for instance, because the story is more of a light-hearted adventure yarn that happens to contain the occasional big battle. Bleach used to be a much smaller story that was more comedic and adventurous in tone - the kind that didn't necessitate some death or fear of it to keep the story tense, but that changed once the Soul Society arc rolled around. Since then it's been a much more serious story about the conflict between Aizen, Soul Society and various other factions for rather high stakes (like the fate of reality in the latest arc) and the fact that you can go in to it knowing that pretty much the entire cast (or at least, all of it that's important) are immune to death in numerous ways kind of belittles the tone Kubo's shooting for.
tsob fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 30, 2013 |
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Jul 30, 2013 17:24
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It's not that killing characters is necessary for good fiction, it's that if you constantly put your characters in "mortal danger" up to and including getting chopped in loving half, but everyone is healed back to normal after every fight, it de-fangs the dramatic tension to the point that we no longer care. Until this arc, every single "good guy" has emerged unscathed and every single "bad guy" has either died, disappeared, or joined forces with the good guys.
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Jul 30, 2013 17:28
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sharktamer posted:Why do so many people think that main characters dying is a necessity for good fiction? Sure it can be shocking and can lead to interesting story developments, but I don't see how characters staying alive can be seen to affect the quality of a shonen manga. Pretty much what the two posters above me already said, but I'd like to add that it can also effect the reader's ability to sympathize with the characters. Especially when they're fighting against  villains who aren't actually evil, like Starrk and Harribel. They look like a bunch of self-righteous, immortal bullies kicking around a bunch of creatures who are forced to devour each other to survive and live in a poo poo-hole desert. Also, the fact that they really only use that power to help themselves, rather than using it to help the people in the Rukongai (you know, that place where people keep dying horribly?) is pretty messed up.
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Jul 30, 2013 19:25
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I like how you're complaining about the SS being bad people when we already know that they were literally just murderous thugs not too long ago and they literally committed genocide on the Nazis. No one is trying to pretend that SS are good or that the people they are fighting are evil. That's kind of the point. Ichigo just happens to be on their side because having Karakura Town destroyed or is against both of their interests. Hence, they track the gently caress out of him to make sure he doesn't stray to the opposing side.
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Jul 30, 2013 19:40
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I think it's fair to say that Soul Society as it currently exists is a thoroughly corrupt organization that, to a large extent, has forgotten its original purpose. At the same time, we're definitely meant to sympathize with members of the gotei 13 more so than the other factions. Even the visoreds were former shinigami. However, the current arc has begun to expand some of that, with Nel returning for a bit and Grimmjow showing up again and seemingly aiding Urahara in his poo poo. We also have Harribel alive and prisoner, plus Starrk may still be chilling around somewhere (or so I hope). Basically, my reading of the entire thing is that the entire structure of how poo poo works is hosed. We got a bit of this at the tail end of the Fullbring arc with the idea that the Gotei 13 have begun to change recently due to Ichigo not really tolerating bullshit when it came to Rukia being imprisoned. Lately we've had old guard captains die, like Yamamoto and Unohana. I also have a feeling that the real enemy in this is the Soul King and he's trying to use Ichigo as his tool. He had him brought to the Royal Realm and the healing dude even commented that Ichigo caught his eye. Considering Aizen's ultimate goal and how hosed Soul Society really is, I think we're going to have a god-killing ending. Ichigo may take his place, like Aizen had intended to do and Yhwach may also wish to do. eta: Also, Quincy somehow loving with existence will be revealed as bullshit. Just a guess though.
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Jul 30, 2013 21:57
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SS is terrible, but no one is ever going to do anything about it because they are the "good guys". Mayuri is literally a mass murderer and Yama only had a problem with that because he wasn't informed first. That was the only explanation ever given for why Rukongai even exists- so that the inhabitants can be killed as needed to keep the reincarnation cycle healthy. Nothing will ever come of this, because Ichigo isn't interested in reforming the horrifying afterlife dystopia, none of the other humans have the power to do it, and the regular sword ghosts don't give a gently caress. But still, Kubo at least did a good job making it clear that Ywach is an even bigger rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 30, 2013 23:19
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I don't think any of the other humans besides Ichigo give a gently caress either, regardless of whether they have the power to do anything about it. Hell, even sword ghosts raised in the worst parts of Rukongai like Rukia and Renji don't give a flying gently caress about changing it. I don't think Kubo even thinks it's a problem or realizes that some of his readers think it's a problem to be honest.
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Jul 31, 2013 00:13
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tsob posted:I don't think any of the other humans besides Ichigo give a gently caress either, regardless of whether they have the power to do anything about it. Hell, even sword ghosts raised in the worst parts of Rukongai like Rukia and Renji don't give a flying gently caress about changing it. I don't think Kubo even thinks it's a problem or realizes that some of his readers think it's a problem to be honest. No, Kubo included that bullshit line about how SS changed due to Ichigo's presence. Of course, SS hasn't really changed at all. The old corrupt faceless oligarchy died and was replaced by a new, functionally identical corrupt faceless oligarchy, and Shusui seems to be content to follow Yama's example as a leader. If anything, he is even more of a dick because he sacrificed Unohana for the sake of gaining more war power.
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Jul 31, 2013 01:26
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