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cafel posted:While I'm not really arguing against your main premise, it's worth keeping in mind that a 2% difference in the price of a major ingredient can lead to large amounts of savings across entire industries. If they can save 2 cents a pound on something they use thousands of tons of each year, they'll do it. Except that the other roughly half of the time it's as much as 2% more expensive, yet still used anyway!
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Jul 25, 2013 04:22
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Jesus christ people, smoke a bowl or something. I made the mistake of arguing with Gentoo once and I'll never do it again. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 25, 2013 05:33
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I mean, even his username is bad advice. Use Linux mint or Ubuntu or something. And to keep it on topic: http://www.startribune.com/local/216801191.html Check out those smarmy assholes in the picture. I wonder how much it cost to bring in all those militarized cops and helicopters and poo poo - and they didn't even catch anyone. Good job, officers! Way to waste our money! 
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Jul 25, 2013 13:44
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His asthmatic, enlarged heart is in the right place.
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Jul 25, 2013 13:54
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:And to keep it on topic:
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Jul 25, 2013 20:48
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TACD posted:It baffles me that not everybody finds it utterly preposterous to have so many people dressing up in fancy clothes and stomping about looking very official and angry, while going about the very important business of catching plants. I love it when it is referred to as a "Marijuana Lab!" from time to time. That is my personal favorite bit of propaganda. Shouldn't that just be a...garden? Besides, when else would they get to dress up and play soldier? You don't get to be a soldier when PROTECTING and SERVING.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:18
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NurhacisUrn posted:I love it when it is referred to as a "Marijuana Lab!" from time to time. That is my personal favorite bit of propaganda. Shouldn't that just be a...garden? I don't know about you, but I always make sure to dress up in riot gear before making sure my tomatoes are free of varmints. Whats the point if you're not going to pomp it up a bit!
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Jul 25, 2013 21:30
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Okan170 posted:I don't know about you, but I always make sure to dress up in riot gear before making sure my tomatoes are free of varmints. Whats the point if you're not going to pomp it up a bit! gently caress yeah dude, I put on some Vibram boots, crush my okra, and then stomp on my zucchini like it was an organic/nutritious terrorist.
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Jul 25, 2013 21:35
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The DEA shows it doesn't care about "state rights" http://www.examiner.com/article/dea-raids-seattle-medical-marijuana-dispensaries-raided Not that it is a surprise, I know they've been raiding medical marijuana shops all along, but now with full on legalization, really? this is where you want to spend money/effort/time? Invisble Manuel fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 15:59
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Invisble Manuel posted:The DEA shows it doesn't care about "state rights" It's a hell of a lot easier than catching actual criminals.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:39
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The DEA's excuse(as far as I heard on the local NPR station) was that these dispensaries were selling to people without a prescription. So from a legal perspective, they still have the right to do this. But I wonder what happens after November, when stores selling to the public open. If the DEA raids them that would be a clusterfuck.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:51
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Mrit posted:The DEA's excuse(as far as I heard on the local NPR station) was that these dispensaries were selling to people without a prescription. So from a legal perspective, they still have the right to do this. But I wonder what happens after November, when stores selling to the public open. If the DEA raids them that would be a clusterfuck. Might be where this thing all comes to a head. I don't see how the DEA could NOT raid a retail marijuana store.
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Jul 26, 2013 23:38
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Mrit posted:The DEA's excuse(as far as I heard on the local NPR station) was that these dispensaries were selling to people without a prescription. So from a legal perspective, they still have the right to do this. But I wonder what happens after November, when stores selling to the public open. If the DEA raids them that would be a clusterfuck. Legally, they'll still have a right to do this after November, because they're a federal agency and it's against federal law.
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Jul 26, 2013 23:57
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quote:At the time, the dispensaries were all owned by the same man who was under investigation for illegal pot sales and money laundering. I'd honestly love to see the books for some of these dispensaries, especially with the trouble they've had with banks. edit: interesting quote:Jay Berneburg, a Tacoma attorney who represents owners of more than 200 medical marijuana establishments, said Wednesday’s raids were a shock to the medical marijuana community.
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Jul 27, 2013 00:01
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They don't want to, my rear end. Every last person at the DEA is evil and literally fantasizes about ruining as many lives as they possibly can out of pure malice. They would love to raid every dispensary in the country. That's why they jump at any chance to do so.
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Jul 27, 2013 00:28
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Jul 27, 2013 00:31
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echinopsis posted:
People don't "need" anything beyond a concrete cell and a bologna sandwich once per day. However, it is our duty to make our lives something better than the absolute minimum needed to continue breathing air.
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Jul 27, 2013 00:54
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Warchicken posted:They don't want to, my rear end. Every last person at the DEA is evil and literally fantasizes about ruining as many lives as they possibly can out of pure malice. They would love to raid every dispensary in the country. That's why they jump at any chance to do so. But Warchicken...didn't you listen to Leonhart being grilled by Jared Polis? "All...illegal...drugs...are...bad." The clear and willful ignorance amazes me when you have a congressman begging you to just GLANCE at some science and facts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFgrB2Wmh5s NurhacisUrn fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 00:54
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Warchicken posted:They don't want to, my rear end. Every last person at the DEA is evil and literally fantasizes about ruining as many lives as they possibly can out of pure malice. They would love to raid every dispensary in the country. That's why they jump at any chance to do so.
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Jul 27, 2013 01:08
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Xandu posted:Legally, they'll still have a right to do this after November, because they're a federal agency and it's against federal law. I get the feeling we're going to live in a world where many states end up making it legal and businesses flourish, but the federal government can't abandon their golden goose, so we end up sacrificing a few businesses every year to the DEA to keep their government checks flowing. The DEA is dead law enforcement, that, vampire-like, only lives by sucking marijuana businesses, and lives the more, the more marijuana businesses it sucks.
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Jul 27, 2013 22:27
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It seems like hyperbole until it effects you personally. Let me know if you're rolling your eyes when your dad is almost killed by police officers twice over marijuana.
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Jul 28, 2013 01:48
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Warchicken posted:It seems like hyperbole until it effects you personally. Let me know if you're rolling your eyes when your dad is almost killed by police officers twice over marijuana. Or stolen from his family like mine was for 4 years for growing for California medical dispensaries. When you have been on the front lines so to speak, you start thinking like this. Edit: Funny(not really) story, me and my buddy were driving to a music festival in Washington last month but we were still on the Oregon side of the border and a highway patrol drug interdiction K-9 unit pulls us over. To be fair we were driving a giant school bus heh. Anyways the cop is invited inside by my buddy, says he smells pot and if we give it up we can just be on our way because he doesn't care about pot. So he gives him the half ounce he has and the 3-4 grams of hash. But when he mentions the hash the cop is like "Actually that is still a felony in Oregon." Yay. So other cops come, the dog goes through the bus and doesn't find anything else, they break our glass pipes on the side of the road and this is the weirdest part, the K-9 cop says to my buddy "So i'm placing you under arrest, but then i'm going to let you go because out of a hundred cases like this i've done in the last few months they are all getting dismissed." So he cuffs him and puts him in the cop car then after writing out a felony citation uncuffs him and lets us go. It was the weirdest loving thing i have ever seen. Then the court date was last week and it was dismissed just like the cop said. We basically got robbed by the biggest criminal gang in the us for like $200 bucks of stuff that's going to be legal soon anyways 20 miles away from where it is legal and got our pretty pipes smashed AND THEY AREN'T EVEN PROSECUTING. All so some rear end in a top hat cop could bring it to his station and get an "attaboy" Fragmented fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 04:27
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Assuming cops " literally fantasizes about ruining as many lives as they possibly can out of pure malice" isn't an effective way of framing drug prohibition or trying to reform it. DEA agents don't make policy.
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Jul 28, 2013 04:31
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Xandu posted:Assuming cops " literally fantasizes about ruining as many lives as they possibly can out of pure malice" isn't an effective way of framing drug prohibition or trying to reform it. DEA agents don't make policy. Not to go all Godwin with it, but how do you feel about nazis who were pushing people into gas chambers? They were just following orders! "Someone else would just enforce this awful, unjust law" is no excuse. Every last person who has ever arrested or fined anyone for marijuana deserves nothing but scorn and vitriol. I understand you are basically saying we have to be calm and reasonable, but the level of injustice being done is well beyond the level deserving of calm, reasonable acceptance and gradual progress. Yes, I fed that way about all police, all dea agents, and everyone who is complicit in the war on drugs.
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Jul 28, 2013 04:36
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Warchicken posted:Not to go all Godwin with it, but how do you feel about nazis who were pushing people into gas chambers? They were just following orders! So you're not even self aware enough to notice that most DEA agents have probably never even touched someone for marijuana, huh?
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Jul 28, 2013 04:38
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Install Gentoo posted:So you're not even self aware enough to notice that most DEA agents have probably never even touched someone for marijuana, huh? But they are part of the group of people that are. I'm not going to say all DEA agents are nazis, but there has to be a serious disconnect in your brain to have your job be locking up people for non-violent crimes(yes including hard drugs). poo poo i wanted to be a cop when i was a kid until they tore my family apart for the crime of growing a plant for sick people(and people that game the system but gently caress it pot should be legal anyways). Edit: Sorry i worded that badly VVVV Fragmented fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 04:52
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Fragmented posted:But you're part of the group of people that are. I'm not going to say all DEA agents are nazis, but there has to be a serious disconnect in your brain to have your job be locking up people for non-violent crimes(yes including hard drugs). poo poo i wanted to be a cop when i was a kid until they tore my family apart for the crime of growing a plant for sick people(and people that game the system but gently caress it pot should be legal anyways). I'm pretty sure I'm not part of that group, at all. A lot of them are people who come from places with heavy drug use and actually believe it's the fault of drugs. A lot of them also stick to just doing poo poo like international cocaine intercepts or other stuff like that. There's some who love nothing more then busting some kid for selling weed but it's not all of them, not even close. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 04:56
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Heh i'm pretty sure the amount of international drug arrests are nothing compared to the amount of Americans they arrest for selling an 8-ball of coke to some guy in a bar, after wasting thousands of dollars in man hours watching some dude just trying to survive and pay his bills. The drug war is indefensible, anyone that gets paid to be a part of it really needs to take a good look at what they are a part of.
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Jul 28, 2013 05:07
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Warchicken posted:"Someone else would just enforce this awful, unjust law" is no excuse. Every last person who has ever arrested or fined anyone for marijuana deserves nothing but scorn and vitriol. I understand you are basically saying we have to be calm and reasonable, but the level of injustice being done is well beyond the level deserving of calm, reasonable acceptance and gradual progress. Yes, I fed that way about all police, all dea agents, and everyone who is complicit in the war on drugs. What we need is a kind of ‘Nuremberg Moment’; where the architects and foot soldiers of this vicious, grossly unjust and inhuman drug war are confronted with the horrible mess they’ve made, in graphic, shocking detail, to get past what can only be thought of as American's own version of ‘Holocaust Denial’. There also needs to be some serious retri-loving-bution. KingEup fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 07:37
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Install Gentoo posted:A lot of them are people who come from places with heavy drug use and actually believe it's the fault of drugs. Since we're doing the Godwin thing anyway, is this an excuse for Germans who grew up during a crippling economic depression and actually believed it was the fault of the Jews? Install Gentoo posted:A lot of them also stick to just doing poo poo like international cocaine intercepts or other stuff like that. This only exists because of domestic policy.
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Jul 28, 2013 15:28
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I'm actually quite sure that international drug trafficking has a lot more to do with international laws friend. Even were say cocaine to be legalized for recreational use in the US, it'd still not be ok to have it exported in from Colombia, because the largest quantity you can legally carry there is a single gram.
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Jul 28, 2013 16:13
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Install Gentoo posted:I'm actually quite sure that international drug trafficking has a lot more to do with international laws friend. Even were say cocaine to be legalized for recreational use in the US, it'd still not be ok to have it exported in from Colombia, because the largest quantity you can legally carry there is a single gram. If cocaine were legalized in the US, I'm pretty sure other countries would legalize it ASAP to get in on the huge trade industry that suddenly became a legitimate business.
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Jul 28, 2013 17:02
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Install Gentoo posted:I'm actually quite sure that international drug trafficking has a lot more to do with international laws friend. Even were say cocaine to be legalized for recreational use in the US, it'd still not be ok to have it exported in from Colombia, because the largest quantity you can legally carry there is a single gram. Oh come on, the only reason that south american countries like Colombia have those laws is because of US pressure. I'm pretty sure you are aware of this. If the US ended its lunatic war on drugs, south and central america would follow suit immediately. They don't like it and they don't want it. They're the ones that have courtside seats to the bloody failure that is prohibition. Do you really think that the US is only following this policy at the behest of international law? Since when have we ever given one single solitary gently caress about international law? And why are you defending the DEA and the war on drugs in this thread? Just to be contrarian? Every single DEA agent is a piece of poo poo, full stop. They willingly joined an organization that is directly responsible for destroying millions of lives worldwide without doing anything that can accurately be described as positive. The organization acts like a foreign occupier in south/central america, terrorizing locals and destroying crops. "Cocaine interdiction" is just another term for US force projection in the Americas. Seriously, of all the US law enforcement services, the DEA is the most useless and harmful and anyone who joins it is, at best, dangerously ignorant but most likely just cynically malevolent or self-serving. poo poo, even the CIA, bad as they are, can at least be argued to have a legitimate purpose. Saying that some of the agents may have joined out of misguided sense that drugs are what cause crime is meaningless. Everyone thinks what they are doing is for the good. Even the most despicable racist who joins the police force just to put more black people in prison thinks he's doing "good". It's not like you have to be self-aware to be a piece of poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2013 17:11
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RichieWolk posted:If cocaine were legalized in the US, I'm pretty sure other countries would legalize it ASAP to get in on the huge trade industry that suddenly became a legitimate business. There is no reason to expect drug legalization in the US would not include restrictions on import/export - we put super high import tariffs on sugar of all things. You can be drat sure there's going to be tariffs to "protect" domestic drugs from outside competition, and anyone trying to smuggle product to avoid that is going to be hit hard by the law. 800peepee51doodoo posted:Oh come on, the only reason that south american countries like Colombia have those laws is because of US pressure... You truly do believe that it has nothing to do with all the other powerful nations out there who also come down hard on drugs, don't you? 800peepee51doodoo posted:And why are you defending the DEA and the war on drugs in this thread? It's interesting that you take "the DEA is not composed of soulless demons that slaver at the thought of brutalizing every last weed smoker in america" as "a defense of the drug war and DEA". Says something about you, I think. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 17:12
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Install Gentoo posted:You truly do believe that it has nothing to do with all the other powerful nations out there who also come down hard on drugs, don't you? I think the other powerful nations would realize that they are fighting an unwinnable war which now has the USA on the other side. Or they could do like you suggest and redouble their prohibition efforts because that's proven to be totally effective at removing drugs from the world. That'd be waay better than legalizing and regulating and getting more business and tax revenue
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Jul 28, 2013 17:18
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RichieWolk posted:I think the other powerful nations would realize that they are fighting an unwinnable war which now has the USA on the other side. China, India, Russia are all for example perfectly willing and able to tell the US to gently caress off if they wanted to legalize drugs and wanted other countries to also legalize them. They're even capable of providing foreign aid in large amounts in order to help countries that wanted to tell the US to gently caress off over drugs. However, all three impose fairly heavy drugs restrictions on their own and support them worldwide.
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Jul 28, 2013 17:23
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Please try to keep up with the conversation. We were discussing what other countries would do if the US would legalize drugs (cocaine in this example, but the point can be extrapolated to the others). You really can't see the difference between everybody ganging up against the world's largest superpower, and everybody going along with it in addition to making more money for their own country? That's some professional-level stupidity right there.
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Jul 28, 2013 17:33
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RichieWolk posted:Please try to keep up with the conversation. We were discussing what other countries would do if the US would legalize drugs (cocaine in this example, but the point can be extrapolated to the others). If the US legalized drugs, it's likely that most other countries would continue to not do so, and the US would erect trade barriers towards easy import of drugs to the US. Amazing how you're such an American Exceptionalist that you don't understand there's large powerful countries out there who also hate drugs and persecute their users, and who the US can't actually threaten in any meaningful way for stepping out of line. If they wanted to let drug use be legal, they would do that, and there would be nothing the US could actually do to stop them or even inconvenience them. And if they wanted to they could also pick up the slack on any smaller countries that wanted to legalize and might be subject to US attempts to bully them. But no, continue believing that there isn't an international drug war going on. Continue to believe that international drug policy was started by the US and not by a large number of other countries before the US could even be called a superpower. It's counterfactual, but it's a free country right?
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Jul 28, 2013 17:38
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What? Why would the US bar trade with other countries because we are more permissive than they are? Video game consoles are banned in china, but we still import PS3s and xbox 360s from them because they are legal here. If the US would legalize drugs the trade barriers would be on the other countries' side. That gives them 2 choices for dealing with the newly drug-permissive USA: Option 1: Bar trade with the US because you don't like drugs, even though it is a proven fact that you can get drugs in almost every country. Black markets remain and governments still spend millions arresting and imprisoning people. Option 2: Legalize drugs, eliminate the black market that already exists and create a new stream of revenue in both private businesses and government taxes. Everybody gets more money and the governments can spend less on drug enforcement and more on other things. You have to be ignorant about a wealth of subjects to think that other governments wouldn't want to cut costs and generate revenue at the same time. e: \/ I was right. You are too ignorant to talk at. RichieWolk fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 18:07
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RichieWolk posted:What? Why would the US bar trade with other countries because we are more permissive than they are? Video game consoles are banned in china, but we still import PS3s and xbox 360s from them because they are legal here. If the US would legalize drugs the trade barriers would be on the other countries' side. Because we have a long standing habit of "protecting" domestic industries and growers for our own benefit. Again: we impose ridiculously high tariffs on sugar, and that was just for the benefit of the farmers who grew sugar beets. You really just don't understand politics or our economic policy at large. Hell, just look at the laws already passed in Washington and Colorado - they focus pretty much exclusively on "You can buy Washington grown weed in Washington" or "You can buy Colorado grown weed in Colorado". States with medical marijuana laws almost always include provisions that dispensaries aren't taking stock from across state borders. There's a very long-lasting streak of "if we're going to legalize it at all, we're not letting it cross borders". Much as these laws are in part a response to federal laws about cross border transport, so too would the US be likely to respond to international drug laws by restricting dealing in drugs to domestic suppliers. And that's again, on top of our tendency to introduce "protective" trade barriers. Not to mention the very real fact that continuing to go after international suppliers gives certain interests in government the ability to still keep their fancy toys and show a Tough On Those Foreigns policy, which you really can't deny exists. You better believe that after weed is legalized nationwide a dude trying to cross from Mexico into the US with a trunk full of marijuana is still going to get nailed.
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Jul 28, 2013 18:19
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