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Ashcans posted:Note that there is Errata regarding combining Scatter and autofire. I have just copied this from the errata document:
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Jul 26, 2013 20:05
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RoF completely replaced Full Auto. There's no actual bonus/penalty for single/semi/full anymore and they aren't separate actions. The number of attacks in your burst is just equal to the RoF multiplied by how many AP you spent attacking, out of your 4 per turn.
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Jul 26, 2013 21:14
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Do different weapons require different amounts of Action Points to fire, or is it just the same across the board? If the latter, it seems like we might be back to high volume fire being king.
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Jul 26, 2013 21:19
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Some weapons require multiple AP to fire a single shot or make a single swing because they do enormous damage/are slow to fire. Otherwise, if a weapon has a 1 or better ROF, it's just that many shots in your burst per AP spent firing. There's a legitimate worry high volume might be best with how Wounds work now, but it's something I'm sure can be adjusted in playtest. A lot of the rough edges are, I suspect, because this is a beta and because they're trying a lot of new stuff they need to iron out. Also, the official FFG forums are already entering full on Edition War mode only a couple days after the release, which is going to be goddamn hilarious to watch. So many of the people there think that the 'suggestions' FFG is looking for is 'NOOO scrap the whole thing and just update DH to OW!'.
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Jul 26, 2013 21:33
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Night10194 posted:RoF completely replaced Full Auto. There's no actual bonus/penalty for single/semi/full anymore and they aren't separate actions. The number of attacks in your burst is just equal to the RoF multiplied by how many AP you spent attacking, out of your 4 per turn.
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Jul 26, 2013 21:41
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Talkie Toaster posted:So is that 1 attack roll per RoF per AP? That seems like it'd get inconvenient fast. No. Say I have a weapon with ROF 2 and I spend 3 AP to fire, I fire the equivalent of a 6 round burst from the older games. So if I hit it by 5 extra DoS I'll hit with all 6. It sets your cap for number of bonus hits, just like it always has.
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Jul 26, 2013 21:47
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How high does RoF go?
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Jul 27, 2013 00:32
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RoF goes up to 3 from what I saw, for HMG type stuff. So if you did nothing but shoot you could fire 12 shots, but there's no feasible way to hit with that many.
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Jul 27, 2013 02:56
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How many actions does it take to suppress, and how do the new rof rules affect it?
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Jul 27, 2013 03:07
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Suppressive Fire is a talent you have to take before you can use it, now, which I think is a poor idea. It's also a very high up talent that just adds the weapon quality Pinning to your gun when you make Overwatch fire. Considering how key suppression was to combat in the older system I don't really think this is wise. We'll see if it gets ironed out.
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Jul 27, 2013 04:46
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Night10194 posted:Honestly, we always found them completely useless back in the currency system because no-one wanted to bother paying the massive cost of maintaining their ammo when you could get by with something cheaper or save up for something better. The bolter was amazing because the gun was cheap so you kept one around just in case you ran into very well armoured target, then you wipped it out if you thought you could take it down otherwise you ran. Having that Tearing + Pen 4 was extremely useful for punching armour. The big difference between currency and infleunce if of course you get situations where people constantly fail their rolls. Its pretty dumb when you reach a scenario if Rogue Trader where the party is walking around with inferno pistols, force fields and xeno tech all over the shop and you have the arch militant you still cant get anything more than his starting bolter because the dice hate him.
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Jul 27, 2013 04:55
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Re suppression: Yeah, that's dumb as hell. Our group is super into suppression, since it's a really helpful thing for melee or less combative types to do when appropriate. Man, Only War can be loving intense. We were tasked with assaulting a government building in the middle of a massive courtyard (like, 300m of open ground), so we relied on some less than reliable artillery fire to keep us from getting iced by sniper fire. We managed to make it, and now we're about to fight our way up five floors of at least fifty insurgents. Time to slice some fuckin pies.
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Jul 27, 2013 04:59
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I don't like money systems because I never know how much money to give players. I don't like requisition systems because bad dice rolls keep players from getting items. More and more I'm compromising (in my shadowrun style Only War game) by paying the players with "rarity levels" of money. For example their routine pay is a "common" level of pay that they can exchange for a common or worse level item, or save their money so it rises in rarity level. So far this has been a supplement to the OW requisition system, but I'm going to discuss lessening requisition and increasing the use of my money system. It keeps dice rolls from screwing over players but keeps me from wonder how much money is a lot of money. The system is really rough and I tend to say yes rather than no anytime the players ask a question about it (like can they use commerce to make these trades better) and so far it seems to work well.
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Jul 27, 2013 05:34
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I really love Only War because you actually have to fight much more like a soldier. Like, you're always looking for cover, never advance on a heavy weapon without suppressing, grenading, or smoking it, you have to rely on combined arms, and most importantly, everyone in your party has a certain baseline of skills and shared competencies, plus gear. Like, if you're a Guerilla regiment, you all have Stealth, and so you should be using it, even if some of you aren't quite as good at it. Honestly, whenever possible, you should be trying to ambush people in OW as much as possible, because you really need to fight on your terms instead of theirs if you can. You can also build some really interesting regiments, ranging from elites with really swank gear (I'm playing as a Noble Grenadier with a unit where everyone has a Triplex lasgun that can act as battle or sniper rifle at will that's quite awesome) to desperate and ill-equipped crazy mad-max guys, to loving mongols. I love Only War.
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Jul 27, 2013 06:06
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Exactly! It's not a milsim or anything, but my guardsman won't charge an ork boss in single combat the way my rogue trader would. Constantly. While shouting about how e's the toughest. We actually use a battle map in OW and I've built my character around flanking, which wouldn't happen in most other lines.
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Jul 27, 2013 06:48
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I really wish I could have that sort of thing in game not actually about soldiers. Like Rogue Trader.  I love when combat works reasonably but playing soldiers is really dull to me.
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Jul 27, 2013 06:50
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Elukka posted:I really wish I could have that sort of thing in game not actually about soldiers. Like Rogue Trader. Smash that poo poo together, son. I'm in the game Jack B Nimble was talking about, and we're cyberpunk PMCs with salaries. There's no reason you can't mix and match, my group has been doing it since Rogue Trader came out. I think you could run any type of game with any of the lines and not spend more than an afternoon thinking about how to hammer down the big discrepancies. Deal with the rest on the fly, as long as you have amenable players.
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Jul 27, 2013 07:07
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S.J. posted:Oh. Great. It's actually even worse than it sounds. For example a chainsword reving can be heard at 500m, while a lasgun burst is audible at 1km. Apparently lasguns are more 'Pew-Pew' than I thought.
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Jul 27, 2013 08:43
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A Lasgun's report is usually described as a loud CRACK noise from what I recall.
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Jul 27, 2013 09:00
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Caros posted:It's actually even worse than it sounds. For example a chainsword reving can be heard at 500m, while a lasgun burst is audible at 1km. Lasguns have always been described as acting like lightning guns over lasers. An imperial guard firing line is often described as being something like a thunderstorm.
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Jul 27, 2013 09:58
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Well, it's more that they've been described accurately as lasers, rather than lasers as we're used to seeing them.
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Jul 27, 2013 10:15
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Talkie Toaster posted:Well, it's more that they've been described accurately as lasers, rather than lasers as we're used to seeing them. Could you elaborate on this? I've always read as them having weird non-laser things like recoil and stuff.
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Jul 27, 2013 10:24
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IIRC they actually fire ionised gas, much like the 'lasers' in star wars. You can see (and avoid) a lasgun bolt in flight if you have quick enough reflexes IIRC. But like so much 40k fluff, it's pretty variable and dependent on the writer.
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Jul 27, 2013 10:26
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kingcom posted:Could you elaborate on this? I've always read as them having weird non-laser things like recoil and stuff. For recoil, that might just be a 40kism like caseless bolter cases, but you could handwave it with hot coolant gas venting or something.
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Jul 27, 2013 11:03
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Talkie Toaster posted:Well, you get a 'crack' for the same reason as you get one in lightning; they heat the air and you get a sudden pressure wave. At least in the 2e and Necromunda weapons lists they also explicitly mentioned that lasguns worked (realistically) by rapid heat transfer- flash-cooking flesh, causing it to burst from the sudden boiling water created rather than working like industrial cutting lasers. Im seeing a lot of tech heresy here thats for sure. kingcom fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 11:11
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Oftentimes 40k has better fluff in the new iterations because someone like Dan Abnet gets into the setting and makes some awesome things, but when it comes to las guns I like the old view which was, pseudoscience aside, about making them act and sound sort of like black powder muskets. Hence the sharp crack! and puff of white smoke when they fire. It needs to be cool first and make sense second. And to affirm what a previous couple posters have said, one of the most novel things about Only War is that you can count on everyone in the party having a baseline of abilities and gear. Deathwatch did it first but it didn't sink in for me because I was blinded by having a party full of Astartes. An age old balancing act for the GM is to challenge the hardiest members of the party without risking the instant death of the weakest. Only War fixes that by making the player characters be twists or flourishes on a baseline character. So far I haven't had anyone complain of not feeling like a snow flake. I really want other games I run to follow the Only War model of letting the party pick something they're ALL proficient in. As far as running the OW system (or any system with characters that have a universal minimum standard of fighting power) I think you'd just need the characters to be of some agreed upon mission or purpose for which they've all prepared or been selected. Rather than being members of a militant organization, the characters might all have sworn themselves to vampire hunting, or they might all have been given a month to prepare themselves after the king's lottery selected them for the ritualistic ten year journey to the eastern lands. I'm saying I want to unionize characters and establish minimum standards. Shape up mage, I'm tired of you having 4 hit points. But to get back to a more specific topic, these new DH rules sound like one jerk with an autogun waiting in a closet could blast a player at point blank range and take them from completely healthy to burning a fate point. I mean an autogun in old DH has a pretty good chance to deal at least a point of damage to a player per hit, and if point blank is still +30 and you can't dodge an attack against which you're unaware, ouch.
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Jul 27, 2013 13:37
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Well, as Pen and Damage have been reigned in a lot, not so much. The autogun does like d10+1 Pen0 now. So he could shoot you a bunch, but if you're a random schmuck in flak (DR 7) only 60% of his shots would actually cause a Wound. And you don't start adding to the severity of Wounds until the next Attack Roll; so if I get hit 4 times by an Autogun, I'll probably take a bunch of minor or flesh wounds that time, but if I get hit again I'll be seriously hosed up.
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Jul 27, 2013 15:27
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Well, I saw over 100+ new posts in the thread, was really curious.. Man, Dark Heresy 2.0. Wasn't quite expecting that, but I have faith in any new alterations to the rules.
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Jul 27, 2013 19:16
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Does anyone have the new Only War supplement? Enemies of the Imperium? How is it? What kind of dudes are in there? Also I heard there are new Vocations. Any details?
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Jul 27, 2013 21:01
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Enemies of the Imperium is mostly high-level dudes for either armored regiments, parties with a lot of heavy weapons, or later game parties. Stuff like Chaos Space Marines. It does, however, have some pretty good fluff that fleshes out the Severan Dominate beyond 'They is bad Guardsmen' if you're into actually using the Spinward Front setting, and it has some very good rules for adapting a form of Hordes to run enemy squads as 'formations' of mooks with a boss in the middle, as well as some neat rules for new medals and special talents you have to pull off cool poo poo to be able to buy. The new vocations are in Hammer of the Emperor, and are kind of a prestige classing/class shifting system for Guard characters to shift around their current aptitudes (Support specialists can't do this) every 2500 EXP. I found Enemies to be worth it, but I got the PDF fairly cheap.
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Jul 27, 2013 21:05
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Alright. I have Hammer of the Emp, it's pretty neat. I was just thinking about running some sort of Roll20 game of Only War maybe since I really want to play that drat game and every time we get something together it falls through. I was wondering if I should invest in EotI and it sounds like I should.
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Jul 27, 2013 21:13
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One of the things I really like from it is that Severus isn't tainted by Chaos or anything. He's just a jackass with a lot of political talents who wants his own domain. He has nothing to do with the Ruinous Powers or anything at all. It's really a relief to finally have a rebel/human bad guy who is really just a selfish rear end in a top hat and would-be dictator. I know it's supposed to happen often in the setting, but whenever it looks like it will, it always turns out there's some Tzeentch in it or whatnot yet again.
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Jul 27, 2013 21:35
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Thanks for the clarifications, I just pulled the numbers out of my butt. Seems like a combat shotgun is massively powerful at point blank range. Which makes sense. If I were to run an only war game, does it basically require a grid with terrain? If you want combat to be interesting at least.
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Jul 27, 2013 22:30
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You could probably do Narrative distance but Only War seems to rely on cover and positioning, as well as distance, so it would probably work better with battlemaps. If you're running an online game and need an extra, I'm in. I was about to start a recruitment thread myself since I'm desperate enough to play that I was going to DM a game myself, but I'm not too familiar with the system just yet.
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Jul 27, 2013 23:03
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Babe Magnet posted:You could probably do Narrative distance but Only War seems to rely on cover and positioning, as well as distance, so it would probably work better with battlemaps. I don't think I have time for that, but I'll consider it.. I was more thinking of a standard once a week thing. Play by post requires a ton of time.
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Jul 27, 2013 23:32
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Me and Babe Magnet were part of the recent group that fell through, if anyone is considering it, I'd definitely be up for giving it a second try as well.
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Jul 28, 2013 00:53
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Oh, no, I don't like using Narrative Time. I won't do PbP, standard once-a-week is perfect.
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Jul 28, 2013 02:40
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Babe Magnet posted:Oh, no, I don't like using Narrative Time. I won't do PbP, standard once-a-week is perfect. If that is okay then I might be willing to try to pull something together. It's been a few years since I have written any sci fi RPGs stuff but it could be fun. Of course, this is predicated on me finding a copy of the rule book at a flgs.
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Jul 28, 2013 03:43
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I think that would be pretty neat. As far as the setting goes I'm pretty well versed in it and I can answer questions and if you want to use battlemaps for Roll20 or whatever I could probably provide you with a buttload of pre-fabs you can use to build the maps. I used to DM other games all the time so I've generally got how to DM down, I'm just not very familiar with this system and I don't really want to DM at all these days unless I have to.
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Jul 28, 2013 04:02
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| # ? May 31, 2024 08:46 |
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I just noticed something in the DH2 rules that bugs the hell out of me. Armor now limits your maximum agility bonus. Feudal plate is the worst offender, capping it at a low 2. I guess nobody at FFG saw that youtube of those guys doing backflips and cartwheels in plate armor?
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Jul 29, 2013 21:22
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