|
Zero One posted:Thought you guys would like this: It's amazing how those freeway interchanges look like they were already traffic clusterfucks 50 years ago.
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 02:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 18:53 |
|
|
The future section is the best. It gets some things right: suburbanization, standardized shipping containers, GPS/traffic maps, rear view cameras, and even automated cars. But other things are way out there: atomic cars, flying cars  , undersea highways, some crazy parking garages, and my favorite: putting trucks into ROCKETSHIPS!
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 02:19
|
|
|
Zero One posted:The future section is the best. It gets some things right: suburbanization, standardized shipping containers, GPS/traffic maps, rear view cameras, and even automated cars. But other things are way out there: atomic cars, flying cars Varance fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jul 30, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 02:22
|
|
|
Where's my solar-powered electro-suspension car?Varance posted:He got the garages right, too. The automated parking garage is a thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
Hmmm yeah... but I still can't drive up the side of my building and park in the office.grover posted:Where's my solar-powered electro-suspension car? And nuclear mountain melting machine?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
Zero One posted:And nuclear mountain melting machine?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 02:27
|
|
|
Something interesting to note: They greatly underestimated the growth of car manufacturing. That traffic engineer predicted an increase from 75 million cars to 100 million between 1958 and 1975 - it actually ended up being 133 million.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 02:32
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:I would not put signals on freeways. You open yourself up to the risk of high speed rear-end collisions, and frequent ones, at that. Ramp metering is decent, but it can only do so much. It'll also tend to push traffic onto local roads, which will get a lot of pushback from those communities. If you're not going to do geometric improvements to reduce bottlenecks (removing those closely spaced ramps and putting in frontage roads, for example), you will need to do demand management.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 08:47
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:I would not put signals on freeways. You open yourself up to the risk of high speed rear-end collisions, and frequent ones, at that. Ramp metering is decent, but it can only do so much. It'll also tend to push traffic onto local roads, which will get a lot of pushback from those communities.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 12:03
|
|
|
If I recall my hobbyist forays into TE correctly the negative effects of having traffic come to a complete stop on a multilane carriageway in order to free up capacity for merging traffic would far outweigh potential benefits. Cichlidae can probably back this up with actual models or theory but passenger cars (equivalents) per hour per lane should be way less with mainline signals installed, even compared to really bad levels of service on a freeway. There's a reason roads eventually got newly built as, or upgraded into, limited access, grade-separated, multilane ones: they're just that much more volume-efficient (Did I get the US terminology right?)
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 14:14
|
|
|
I don't disbelieve you, but I have trouble understanding why that is. Do the models take frequency of collisions into account? Also, I don't know if this is recommended practice, but California does often use ramp meters on freeway-freeway merges--just only on some of the movements. Socket Ryanist fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 30, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 16:55
|
|
|
Hedera Helix posted:If anybody from the Philadelphia area is reading this thread, it looks like you're going to be hearing all types of LOOT RAIL CRIME TRAIN We have a train running from Philadelphia through Camden to other parts of South Jersey. There are no "city people" here. I have actively turned down jobs on the PA side of Philadelphia because traffic is so miserable and there is no other transportation options. The Schuylkill is never going to be expanded ever. PA needs as much public transportation coming out of Philadelphia as it can get.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
Socket Ryanist posted:I don't disbelieve you, but I have trouble understanding why that is. Do the models take frequency of collisions into account? Here's a recent example, built in the last twenty odd years (I circled the freeway merge meter, and you can see the actual backlog being caused by freeway-freeway traffic):  e: thumbnailed
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2013 22:55
|
|
|
Mandalay posted:Here's a recent example, built in the last twenty odd years (I circled the freeway merge meter, and you can see the actual backlog being caused by freeway-freeway traffic): If you're talking about ramp meters on freeway-freeway interchanges, Minnesota has a whole bunch of them. It might have something to do with our abundant cloverleafs though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 02:03
|
|
|
Holy gently caress that's terrible, it looks like a still from DREAD. Add some mega-blocks and a wall and you've got mega city one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 02:35
|
|
|
it looks like los angeles to me?  what's so terrible about it?fake edit: holy poo poo I can't believe I wild guessed that Socket Ryanist fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Jul 31, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 02:42
|
|
|
Both the interchange and the backdrop are super distinctive though 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 03:02
|
|
|
Socket Ryanist posted:it looks like los angeles to me? It's Los Angeles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 03:03
|
|
|
Socket Ryanist posted:it looks like los angeles to me? I think, for those of us from outside the United States, we're not used to seeing poo poo like that outside of sci fi dystopias? Anyway, on the topic of the LA Freeway system, some crazy urban planner in Boston has rendered it as a London Underground style subway map:  http://www.stonebrowndesign.com/los-angeles-freeways.html And on the topic of the Vancouver bike lane I was talking about earlier, it passed in City Council last night. Cue wailing and gnashing of teeth, then everyone getting back to their lives and completely forgetting about it by this time next year (when the slightly more conservative party running for Council will doubtless try unsuccessfully to resurrect the issue, like they did the last major cycling infrastructure upgrade.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 04:01
|
|
|
That bus accident in Italy where a bus crashed and fell into a ravine -- How much punishment are the guard rails usually designed to take?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 04:42
|
|
|
Mandalay posted:Here's a recent example, built in the last twenty odd years (I circled the freeway merge meter, and you can see the actual backlog being caused by freeway-freeway traffic):  Regarding lights on freeways: see this other 105 interchange. Lights on literally inter-freeway movement, though there's hella space for traffic to back up. It isn't out of the norm for the entire flyover from 405S to 105E to fill up at rush hour. I always saw these as glorified onramps, though. No big deal.  edit: Lead out in cuffs posted:I think, for those of us from outside the United States, we're not used to seeing poo poo like that outside of sci fi dystopias? Normal Barbarian fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jul 31, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 09:27
|
|
|
Varance posted:He got the public garage right, too. The automated parking garage is a thing. We are building one right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CEGhMv_ROM We're in the process of restoring a lot of old embankments in the Hague. The loss of parking spaces has to be compensated, so we designed a automatic parking garage for the residents who live nearby. It's fully underground except for the entrance, and under the water of the city canal to save space.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 10:08
|
|
|
Dutch Engineer posted:We are building one right now So at what point do you exit the car? The video kinda glossed over it. What kind of difficulties do canals bring with construction? I think I heard a rumor that one of the biggest problems that the Amsterdam Centraal works were due to the canals somehow?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 10:28
|
|
|
Dutch Engineer posted:We are building one right now
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 10:40
|
|
|
Fragrag posted:So at what point do you exit the car? The video kinda glossed over it. I would guess you exit the car after parking it in the above-ground entrance, then punch in your code or swipe your credit card or whatever, before it will accept the car. grover posted:With as much space as the arm and horizontal storage is taking up, why not just build a conventional underground garage and have people drive in? It looks like a pretty small garage. The down- and up ramps would probably take up a huge percentage of the available area, and take more space on the surface. Like all automated garages, it doesn't make sense unless land is hugely expensive, like in Tokyo or Amsterdam. Hippie Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jul 31, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 15:32
|
|
|
Fragrag posted:So at what point do you exit the car? The video kinda glossed over it. You stay in it to take Instagram photos from the future.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 17:13
|
|
|
Terminal Entropy posted:You stay in it to take Instagram photos from the future. And the awful realisation that a car can only be called up from the surface and there's no cellphone reception underground.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 17:16
|
|
|
Fragrag posted:So at what point do you exit the car? The video kinda glossed over it. You exit the car after driving it in the elevator building above ground. Motion sensors check for any movement in the car before parking it, to check for any remaining passengers, animal or human. Most of the times, the problem isn't the canals, but the buildings around them. They tend to be very fragile and susceptible to damages due to soil settlement. We have to remain within a 1:1200 value of angular rotation to prevent cosmetic cracks in the buildings. grover posted:The benefit of Japanese-style automated garages is they can be vertical with a very small footprint. With as much space as the arm and horizontal storage is taking up, why not just build a conventional underground garage and have people drive in? We'd never be able to fit 160 cars in such a small space with a conventional garage. The available space is very rectangular, which leaves little room for traditional ramps. For those of you who are interested, here are some pictures: http://www.denhaag.nl/home/bewoners/verkeer-en-vervoer/verkeersprojecten/foto/Bouwfasering-NoordwalVeenkade.htm http://www.denhaag.nl/home/bewoners/foto/Fotoalbum-voortgang-project-NoordwalVeenkade-2013.htm
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2013 18:03
|
|
|
Koesj posted:If I recall my hobbyist forays into TE correctly the negative effects of having traffic come to a complete stop on a multilane carriageway in order to free up capacity for merging traffic would far outweigh potential benefits. Essentially, yes. Queue departure flow varies from region to region, but is typically around 1800-1900 veh/ln/hr. Capacity at LOS E is closer to 2200 veh/ln/hr. Once you hit LOS F, you're back down to queue departure flow. The point of ramp meters is to limit entering traffic and keep the mainline at about LOS E. In theory, this results in better capacity for everyone. Putting it across high-speed traffic, though, is going to result in a string of fatalities. Lead out in cuffs posted:Anyway, on the topic of the LA Freeway system, some crazy urban planner in Boston has rendered it as a London Underground style subway map: Ahh, that's wonderful. I should do something similar when I have some free time. (Did I mention I have absolutely no free time these days?) Lead out in cuffs posted:And on the topic of the Vancouver bike lane I was talking about earlier, it passed in City Council last night. Cue wailing and gnashing of teeth, then everyone getting back to their lives and completely forgetting about it by this time next year (when the slightly more conservative party running for Council will doubtless try unsuccessfully to resurrect the issue, like they did the last major cycling infrastructure upgrade.) It drives me batty when politicians revisit a good idea and smack it down. "Here's ten grand to design your project, and... now throw it in the trash because we decided not to fund it." mamosodiumku posted:That bus accident in Italy where a bus crashed and fell into a ravine -- How much punishment are the guard rails usually designed to take? We call them "guide rails" here, because someone successfully sued after they failed to 'guard' them from injury. Guide rails have different degrees of deflection, but a high-speed bus is probably going to roll right over the top of them. In cases where we need zero deflection, even with large vehicles, we use tall concrete barriers instead. ----- Anyone interested in automated parking garages, VISSIM has an excellent simulation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1QSSWe8pV8
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2013 02:15
|
|
|
heythisguyhere posted:Judge Harry Pregerson Interchange best interchange. Named after the judge who squashed the lawsuit(s). Ahahaha it really is straight out of Judge Dredd. Cichlidae posted:It drives me batty when politicians revisit a good idea and smack it down. "Here's ten grand to design your project, and... now throw it in the trash because we decided not to fund it." Oh, we're good. The infrastructure is scheduled to be built before the next Council election.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2013 04:07
|
|
|
"Don't go yet, I need to take a picture of that Stop sign for the Traffic Engineer thread." Something seems a little bit off. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2013 14:48
|
|
|
So it looks like not everyone is keen on one of our favorite intersections, the roundabout : Wisconsin GOP Discovers New Threat: Roundabouts If we don't act now, Wisconsinites might wake up one day in a Milton Keynesian nightmare! Seriously, though, I'm interested in the WisDOT statistic quoted, stating that roundabouts reduce accidents by 9%. I wonder if that is a comparison of new roundabouts vs. the old intersections they replaced or if it's a comparison of roundabouts vs. other intersections. I would have expected a higher accident reduction rate, but there is very little info on where these statistics came from.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 02:37
|
|
|
We put a little roundabout in our small city of 50,000 or so. It reduced vehicular accidents to nearly nothing, but moderately increased the pedestrian and bicycle accident rate (because people felt safer about using that road to walk and bike). The community hated it though, and ended up voting to remove it in spite of every traffic safety commission and engineering council in the state. It was pretty depressing, since the town is otherwise pretty liberal and educated. But our conservative paper put out an all-hands-on-deck effort to kill the roundabout. http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/lo...1a4bcf887a.html http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/lo...19bb2963f4.html http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/lo...19bb2963f4.html Kaal fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Aug 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 03:50
|
|
|
Gods, how the hell can people hate traffic circles? You do a hell of a lot less stopping than you do for traffic lights.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 05:52
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Kaal posted:We put a little roundabout in our small city of 50,000 or so. It reduced vehicular accidents to nearly nothing, but moderately increased the pedestrian and bicycle accident rate (because people felt safer about using that road to walk and bike). The community hated it though, and ended up voting to remove it in spite of every traffic safety commission and engineering council in the state. It was pretty depressing, since the town is otherwise pretty liberal and educated. But our conservative paper put out an all-hands-on-deck effort to kill the roundabout. Just another amateur opinion but I'm not really surprised that there were more pedestrian accidents there - there's not really any provision for their crossing at all. I used google to look at as many roundabouts as I could think of in my home of New Zealand and they all have entry traffic islands with a low part for the peds to use. I think on any reasonably busy intersection the pedestrian crossings should be further back from the intersection for a roundabout. I did find one that was like your one, but it was on a tiny residential intersection that will never even have enough traffic to build queues. And shouldn't they also have a yield stripe across the entrances?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 09:16
|
|
|
Jaguars! posted:I think on any reasonably busy intersection the pedestrian crossings should be further back from the intersection for a roundabout. I did find one that was like your one, but it was on a tiny residential intersection that will never even have enough traffic to build queues. And shouldn't they also have a yield stripe across the entrances? Yeah, I don't think that was ever remade properly, looks like they just plopped an island in the middle of the intersection and called it a day.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 12:26
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:Gods, how the hell can people hate traffic circles? You do a hell of a lot less stopping than you do for traffic lights. It's new and different, at least in the US. People are bound to complain. Also, for many Americans their first (and often only) impression of roundabouts comes from National Lampoon's European Vacation or some similar farcical example. I'm just proud I came up with the term "Milton Keynesian"
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 14:40
|
|
|
Round-abouts are european and thus leftist and anti-american and anti-car and part of agenda 21.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 16:03
|
|
|
Kakairo posted:Seriously, though, I'm interested in the WisDOT statistic quoted, stating that roundabouts reduce accidents by 9%. I wonder if that is a comparison of new roundabouts vs. the old intersections they replaced or if it's a comparison of roundabouts vs. other intersections. I would have expected a higher accident reduction rate, but there is very little info on where these statistics came from. I imagine that some accidents are happening because people aren't yet used to the intersections, and that once people become more comfortable with them the statistics will improve.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 18:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 18:53 |
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Round-abouts are european and thus leftist and anti-american and anti-car and part of agenda 21.  ". (ignoring the fact that "other drivers" are often baffled by things as simple as turning without coming to a complete stop, and that people need to use roundabouts if they ever hope to know how to use them)
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2013 18:21
|
|
