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Electric Bugaloo posted:Crossposting myself from the NMD vinyl thread: Yeah you'll be fine ryangs posted:The old fogey at the stereo shop also schooled me about playing with the dustcover off. I had no idea that could make such a dramatic difference. Kids, take your dustcovers completely off the turntable when you're playing. Same with slipmats: I had one on just for decoration. YMMV here, but if you've got a slipmat sitting on top of your platter just for looks, experiment with removing it. If you listen to every old guy with a soap box at a used audio store you will be raving about the illuminati and "FLEA-BAY" in short time. Some people don't have dustcovers. Some do. Some people have 300,000$ turntables, some have free turntables. Do whatever works for you. Slipmats, as in non-rubber mats, are more a DJ thing than a casual/"AUDIOPHILE" thing. peskyplumber posted:What difference does playing without the dust cover make? I figured it would be better for the records if you just kept it on all the time. Same difference spending 8,000$ on cable "lifts" makes. Subjective things that only you can tell. Electric Bugaloo posted:He simply wasn't a fan of the "West Coast" sound... Sounds like a fun adventure. I love meeting local yokels, I went to Ikea this past Sunday and who do I see setting up a garage sale a block from me? David "Springa" Spring, he's been in Chicago for ages and I always see him around but now I live next to him. He's off his rocker though. Alienwarez posted:I've been collecting LP records in preparation for having enough disposable income to buy some entry level equipment, and now that I'm at that point it's time for me to ask about some poo poo that has probably been discussed many times in the thread. Just to let you know you sound like you're already committed to spending a thousand dollars or so. You could just as easily buy a used automatic turntable for 30-75$, buy a new cart/stylus for it (~50$), buy whatever used amp with a phono stage comes your way (30-100$) and plug a pair of headphones into it. You will be very happy with that, I guarantee, until you figure out if you're a weird audiophile or not, whether you're an audio hoarder, or you just want to post on Head-Fi all day about boring kits. If you want a barebones setup you will need: 1) A turntable. If you buy it new make sure it comes with a NEW, UNPLAYED cart. A cartridge is the whole housing that encompasses the needle and four interconnects to the tonearm, that'll probably already be set up or the store will set it up if you buy it new. A needle is just the actual "needle" that sits in the groove ususally connected to some plastic housing/gizmo that aligns it into the cartridge. A headshell is the housing that the cartridge mounts into, its just a thing that holds the cart in alignment on the tonearm. You may need to buy a cartridge. If you're buying used, you NEED a replacement needle for your cartridge (post the cartridge here we'll help) or a new cartridge, which is usually the easier and just as cheap solution. The headshell comes on the turntable (usually, you won't have to worry about this). 2) An amp. Don't get a headphone amp if you're new. Or ever, but that's me. (edit- if you're totally serious about only doing headphones, build your own headphone amp, its really easy, or buy an inexpensive micro amp)Get an amp, literally any amp, that has regular RCA jacks on the front/back that are labeled "PHONO." Before you buy this, 100% make sure the amp does the following: 1) Plugs in to a power source, turns on, and all its buttons that you will use will work. 2) Powers speakers, a pair, and can play them loud enough that you become annoyed. 3) When you plug a turntable in to the "PHONO" stage and put a record on, the record is played as loud as the other functions of the amp (ie radio, if it has one, or at least as loud as it may annoy you). If the turntable has a ground, its nice if the amp has a ground connect on the back, but you can also connect the ground to the chassis. 4) Has a headphone jack, since you listen to headphones. Some will be 1/8" jacks, some will be 1/4", but you can get 50 cent adapters to fix that. Not a big deal. Amps are usually not pretty, and they usually do not fit your decor, just get a cheap amp that sounds good to you to start. 3) Speakers. Two of them because your audio source is stereo, regular unpowered whatever speakers. Plug em in to your amp and play some music through them, turn them up as loud as it takes to annoy you. Do you hear anything that doesn't sound like the music you want to hear? Then don't buy them. You can buy 3,000$ (or 15,000$) speakers that will introduce sound you do not want to hear so just get a cheap pair of speakers that WORK (ie are in sound condition) and that audibly/psychologically sound "right" to you. I seriously recommend listening to like 5-10 speaker pairs before even committing to a pair, just to realize speakers sound different. You can do that for 150$, seriously, or you could get all new kit and blow a couple grand and also be really happy. To add myself, my Braun PS550 is having its power board worked on and I will own the prettiest motherfucking turntable ever. Not an Anthem fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 30, 2013 |
# ? Jul 30, 2013 16:58 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 00:07 |
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Just got a SL1200M3D for my birthday. Here it is with a Screaming For Vengeance picture disc on it. New tonearm and new cables.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 00:11 |
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ryangs posted:The old fogey at the stereo shop also schooled me about playing with the dustcover off. I had no idea that could make such a dramatic difference. Kids, take your dustcovers completely off the turntable when you're playing. Same with slipmats: I had one on just for decoration. YMMV here, but if you've got a slipmat sitting on top of your platter just for looks, experiment with removing it. I could never tell any difference in sound with dustcover up or down and I have cats, so I keep it down to keep them off my poo poo. I'm supposed to just put my record directly on the bare metal platter? I'll keep the lovely little foam mat that came with the turntable. It is annoying when it gets static electricity in it and sticks to the record though, I'm thinking about buying some cork and cutting it to fit the platter (since cork slipmats cost like 10x what a sheet of cork costs).
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 15:35 |
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eggsovereasy posted:I could never tell any difference in sound with dustcover up or down and I have cats, so I keep it down to keep them off my poo poo. Up or down doesn't matter. On the turntable or completely removed from the turntable is what makes a difference. The thin plastic cover is amazingly good at picking up vibrations in the air and transferring them to the turntable itself. Just tap on it while playing a record. You can hear it through the speakers. If you have problems with hair, buy a dry record brush. It's the single best investment you can make if you have more then a handful of albums or a stylus you care about. Also, they have an anti-static spray at your local grocery store on the detergent aisle. Spray your mat, the floor and the area around your turntable. The cork mat is not a bad idea. It won't hold a charge like a felt slipmat.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 16:03 |
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Paperweight posted:Up or down doesn't matter. On the turntable or completely removed from the turntable is what makes a difference. The thin plastic cover is amazingly good at picking up vibrations in the air and transferring them to the turntable itself. Just tap on it while playing a record. You can hear it through the speakers. I can't believe if your table is heavy enough that the amount of vibration the dustcover creates during normal operation is going to make a difference. Agreed on the record brush though, jesus christ I've gotten some brand new albums where the packaging had gotten poo poo all over the record or something that I started playing just assuming it'd be clean and it was all popping. I got a nice carbon fiber one from amazon that is great, and some cleaning/anti static fluid and a wet brush for grody used records.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 16:23 |
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Paperweight posted:Up or down doesn't matter. On the turntable or completely removed from the turntable is what makes a difference. The thin plastic cover is amazingly good at picking up vibrations in the air and transferring them to the turntable itself. Just tap on it while playing a record. You can hear it through the speakers. Audiophile bullshit, if you're worried about "vibrations in the air" you are off your rocker. If you tap on the cover while playing a record it might skip because you're hitting your turntable, it has nothing to do with the dust cover. Anti static spray: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7383-nordost-eco-3-anti-static-spray.aspx "Lowers noise floor! Sound stage! (insert drivel)" Ground your turntable, problem solved. If you get lots of dust trying cleaning your apartment more often. If you have gross records, clean them.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 16:45 |
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They make some insane claims but anti static spray does help prevent dust build up. The fluid in wet cleaning kits usually has some anti static stuff in it (I've never used the spray, myself).
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 16:55 |
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So apparently a new radio station is broadcasting from a once defunct station like 1,000 feet from my house. I now get today's best pop hits through my Pioneer SX-780 when I'm using the aux input. I don't have an antenna or anything installed it just comes in, and not on any other input except aux. Does anyone know if this can be fixed?
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 17:06 |
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Dogen posted:They make some insane claims but anti static spray does help prevent dust build up. The fluid in wet cleaning kits usually has some anti static stuff in it (I've never used the spray, myself). Antistatic sprays or additives do actually do something, just not for audio or audio cables.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 17:11 |
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Dogen posted:I can't believe if your table is heavy enough that the amount of vibration the dustcover creates during normal operation is going to make a difference. What brush did you get? I've had a turntable for a while now but no brush so I figure it would be a good idea to finally get one.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 17:18 |
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:So apparently a new radio station is broadcasting from a once defunct station like 1,000 feet from my house. I now get today's best pop hits through my Pioneer SX-780 when I'm using the aux input. I don't have an antenna or anything installed it just comes in, and not on any other input except aux. Does anyone know if this can be fixed? What are you playing through the aux in?
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 17:19 |
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peskyplumber posted:What brush did you get? I've had a turntable for a while now but no brush so I figure it would be a good idea to finally get one. http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-LP-record-clean-brush/dp/B0006VMBHI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375289405&sr=8-1&keywords=record+brush I have this one and it's working fine although now I am noticing all the 1 star review for it shedding fibers after a while. Not an Anthem posted:Antistatic sprays or additives do actually do something, just not for audio or audio cables. hahah yeah that's insane.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 17:53 |
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Not an Anthem posted:What are you playing through the aux in? It's probably a computer or a smartphone/MP3 player connected to a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable. There's definitely a crossover or interference of some kind, but no clue what would be causing it.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 18:46 |
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Paperweight posted:Up or down doesn't matter. On the turntable or completely removed from the turntable is what makes a difference. The thin plastic cover is amazingly good at picking up vibrations in the air and transferring them to the turntable itself. Just tap on it while playing a record. You can hear it through the speakers. I have a belt drive turntable with the platter and tonearm suspended on springs (AR ES-1), vibrations don't really get through like they do on an unsuspended direct drive table so I'm not too worried about it. Paperweight posted:If you have problems with hair, buy a dry record brush. It's the single best investment you can make if you have more then a handful of albums or a stylus you care about. Also, they have an anti-static spray at your local grocery store on the detergent aisle. Spray your mat, the floor and the area around your turntable. The cork mat is not a bad idea. It won't hold a charge like a felt slipmat. I'm more concerned with a cat jumping on the record while it's playing than I am about the hair. I use a brush every time before playing anyway because I am a sperglord.
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# ? Jul 31, 2013 19:20 |
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Dogen posted:http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-LP-record-clean-brush/dp/B0006VMBHI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375289405&sr=8-1&keywords=record+brush I've had one of these for a year and it's been going well with no problems other than the writing rubbing off the side a little bit.
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# ? Aug 1, 2013 04:26 |
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:So apparently a new radio station is broadcasting from a once defunct station like 1,000 feet from my house. I now get today's best pop hits through my Pioneer SX-780 when I'm using the aux input. I don't have an antenna or anything installed it just comes in, and not on any other input except aux. Does anyone know if this can be fixed? Since you only get this on the Aux input, I'm assuming that the equipment connected to that input is connected via a different/longer cable than the other inputs, try taking a feet or two of cable and coil it up (~5-10" diameter), if that helps you can try putting a ferrite on it, or just leave it coiled up. More general for RFI from AM transmitters: Try making sure the chassis of the amplifier is grounded to mains earth, use properly shielded interconnects where possible (no need for monster cables but coaxial type cable is better at RF rejection than standard patch cords). Failing that, get a bunch of clip on ferrite cores and try sticking them on the various signal cables in your system, sometimes it's the actual speaker cables picking up the signal (they're normally unshielded so are more susceptible to RFI).
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# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:30 |
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iluvpr0n posted:I've had one of these for a year and it's been going well with no problems other than the writing rubbing off the side a little bit. I got a Shure M97xe cartridge yesterday and part of the cart is a wee brush that brushes the section of the record before the needle hits it Waiting on my dust cover and a silver technics headshell (I already have a generic lovely headshell that it came from the repair shop with) and I think it will be a complete work. It came from the shop with a new tone arm and cabling and a ground to RCA mod, what else do people do to these things that's worthwhile, or have I pretty much already done what's reasonable short of getting into insanely more expensive cartridges/phono amps? Dogen fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Aug 1, 2013 |
# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:00 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:It's probably a computer or a smartphone/MP3 player connected to a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable. Could be ground loop interference, where you have a powered audio source on a different ground level as your amp, I *think* plugging both sources into the same surge protector might fix this? People always say those ferrite cable clamps from radio shack help with RF but I don't know if that's fluff or not. Longview put it much better.
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# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:47 |
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Crossposting from the NMD vinyl thread, but I'm looking for a turntable upgrade from my old Kenwood table since my birthday is coming up later this month and I'm wondering if there are any good options besides the Audio Technica 1200 wannabe or the Pro-ject Debut in that ~$300 price range. I'm not too familiar with the brands for the higher-end tables.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 05:00 |
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Find a SL1200 abandoned by a DJ at a stereo repair shop, that's what I did. He brought it in to get new tone arm and cabling and never picked it up and paid, so it's mine now
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 14:18 |
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Dogen posted:Find a SL1200 abandoned by a DJ at a stereo repair shop, that's what I did. He brought it in to get new tone arm and cabling and never picked it up and paid, so it's mine now Buy SL1200 MK 2 used by a DJ for 300 €, spend 40 € on a new mat (because the DJ threw away the nice thick rubber mat and replaced it with a lovely felt slip-mat that is now really dirty), 40 € on headshell (unless you want to use Ortofons), whatever it costs to replace the burnt-out light, 40 € on hinges (which he threw out also), and I want to say 70 € on the dust cover because he probably broke/lost that as well. (I'm just saying be careful what you get if you're on a tight budget. If you have wood floors the rubber mat can make one hell of a difference, for instance, even though the deck is pretty well damped anyway.)
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 14:23 |
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I was only out the dust cover. Everything else was in perfect condition since it was coming from the repair shop. But yeah test it out and watch out for the cartridge, the shop was going to set me up with the crappiest AT cart and generic headshell they had and I said "gently caress it I've got an ok shure in a technics headshell at home already" so they knocked off $40. Even the dumb stylus light works. I wouldn't even bother replacing the dust cover, but cats like to get on the entertainment... shelf... thing while we're out, so it seems like a good idea to protect the tone arm and I guess as an added bonus there will be less dust/cat hair on the mat. Since it's an M3D it doesn't even have hinges and I'm not planning on getting any really. Dogen fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Aug 2, 2013 |
# ? Aug 2, 2013 15:07 |
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They can also be a little rough cosmetically when DJ used, but that doesn't usually affect the way they work.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 15:22 |
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Ron Burgundy posted:They can also be a little rough cosmetically when DJ used, but that doesn't usually affect the way they work. Mine is pictured up the page, you can see it's in pretty good shape, but yeah I imagine that's a concern. I do wonder what that mystery piece attached by some adhesive is near the 45 adapter hole but I'll get rid of that shortly.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 15:25 |
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This was my Dad's. I cleaned it up and now it works. But it gives off that electronics burning smell a little. I think it's coming from the amp section, but it's hard to tell. I let it run for a few hours on a comfortable listening level, not cranked up. There wasn't any smoke or anything. I'd like to use it, but after a while the smell bothers me. Any ideas? This is what the inside looks like.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 16:58 |
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TomR posted:But it gives off that electronics burning smell a little. I think it's coming from the amp section, but it's hard to tell. I let it run for a few hours on a comfortable listening level, not cranked up. There wasn't any smoke or anything. I'd like to use it, but after a while the smell bothers me. Any ideas? I'm a huge believer in vintage Yamaha, but I didn't know anything about your amp. A quick googling turned this up, though: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=308977 quote:There was a recent thread on a notice Yamaha issued on certain 240V models and I think the A-960 was one of them. Yamaha recommended these models be taken out of service because of some unspecified issued that increased the risk of fire. And here's the info from the manufacturer itself: http://www.whathifi.com/news/Yamaha-issues-safety-recall-on-amps-30-years-on/ Apparently, Yamaha have recalled a 30+ year old series of equipment and I guess they'll either fix what's causing the issue or send you a replacement part. I'm really pleased and surprised that they decided to do that. trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Aug 2, 2013 |
# ? Aug 2, 2013 19:17 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:I'm a huge believer in vintage Yamaha I have a Yamaha R-500 I bought off craigslist and it seems nice. I bought it to use as a second system with headphones in my bedroom, but have been considering getting some speakers, is it worth making a real setup out of?
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 19:28 |
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Mine is 120V. They say the problem is with the 220V models, which would have a different power supply. I'm going to try and clean it more, see if that helps.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 19:32 |
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eggsovereasy posted:I have a Yamaha R-500 I bought off craigslist and it seems nice. I bought it to use as a second system with headphones in my bedroom, but have been considering getting some speakers, is it worth making a real setup out of? Apparently it's the "last of its kind" though the R-series isn't nearly as highly regarded as the CR-x20/CR-x40's from the late '70s. Looks like it's 30-WPC (and this is by '80s standards) so it's kind of on the low end power-wise but it should definitely make a respectable bedroom/office/small room setup if you want it to. I'd pair it with some fairly sensitive speakers if you wanted to play particularly loud, though. For a good looking, good sounding, minimalist/designer-y bedroom setup on the cheap I'd get a pair of white or silver metal Realistic Minimus 7's (often go for $50/pair on ebay and even cheaper on craigslist) and probably a craigslist 8" subwoofer. TomR posted:Mine is 120V. They say the problem is with the 220V models, which would have a different power supply. I'm going to try and clean it more, see if that helps. I would do that- there might be a pocket of dust in the heatsink somewhere. But at the same time dude- if it smells like it's burning and the smell becomes noticeable enough to bother you then it's probably worth addressing the problem in some manner. Who knows, maybe email somebody at Yamaha and see what happens. Never hurts to ask. trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 2, 2013 |
# ? Aug 2, 2013 19:49 |
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What I would really like to do is figure out what parts are failing and replace them, if there are any. I can't see anything that looks like it's burning. There isn't any smoke coming off of anything when it's on either. I don't plan on just using this thing like it's new. It's been sitting in a garage for 12 years. It's probably all full of bugs.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 20:13 |
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TomR posted:What I would really like to do is figure out what parts are failing and replace them, if there are any. I can't see anything that looks like it's burning. There isn't any smoke coming off of anything when it's on either. Well, one place to start is to simply google and read up as much as you can on the receiver in question. See what parts people have reported having issues with (I saw some references to certain caps and switches failing/smoking when I looked it up for 5 minutes) and see what they did. Audiokarma and its archives are full of obnoxious "audiophile" sperglords but they're also a gold mine of almost every kind of information if you can wade through the dreck. Find PDFs of both the user and service manual online (dead easy). You're definitely going to need the latter if you plan on replacing anything. As for cleaning, go to Costco and buy a 5-pack of canned air computer dusters. Order a Deoxit kit on Amazon and hit all of the switches, potentiometers, and contacts (there are tons of how-to guides online).
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 20:42 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Apparently it's the "last of its kind" though the R-series isn't nearly as highly regarded as the CR-x20/CR-x40's from the late '70s. Looks like it's 30-WPC (and this is by '80s standards) so it's kind of on the low end power-wise but it should definitely make a respectable bedroom/office/small room setup if you want it to. Thanks for advice, that's kind of what I was looking for. My main setup in the living room is nice and has plenty of power, so something simple in the bedroom would be nice.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 20:48 |
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I've done a bunch of reading and it looks like I'm lucky and I don't have most of the common problems associated with this receiver. I have found a pair of transistors on the constant current circuit that get pretty hot. They each have their own little heatsink so I think it could be them heating up the old dust. All of the switch lights are burned out, so I'll have to replace them.
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# ? Aug 2, 2013 21:49 |
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Dogen posted:I got a Shure M97xe cartridge yesterday and part of the cart is a wee brush that brushes the section of the record before the needle hits it Curious what you think of the Shure. I almost got one, because I like to support local, Chicagoland businesses, especially Shure. Strangely enough, though, I couldn't find it at any of my neighborhood stereo shops. I'm assuming it has a very uncolored/unadultered, scientific sound. Is there a difference with the brush up or down? eggsovereasy posted:I could never tell any difference in sound with dustcover up or down and I have cats, so I keep it down to keep them off my poo poo. Yeah, I don't know about the science of the whole playing with the dustcover on vs. off thing. I won't try and defend it. Just give it a shot. Definitely don't put the record right on the metal platter. I meant adding a DJ-style felt slipmat--on top of the turntable's existing rubber (or whatever) mat is on top of the metal platter--might affect your sound, because the height difference is changing the angle at which your stylus hits the vinyl, and I suppose the material could change the way vibrations are dampened or distributed. Dogen posted:Agreed on the record brush though, jesus christ I've gotten some brand new albums where the packaging had gotten poo poo all over the record or something that I started playing just assuming it'd be clean and it was all popping. I got a nice carbon fiber one from amazon that is great, and some cleaning/anti static fluid and a wet brush for grody used records. I always clean my new, paper flake-laden records with this stuff called Gruv Glide, which promises a whole bunch of audiophile snake oil bullshit, but is really just a good cleaner and anti-static coating. It keeps the disc from attracting dust, and then I just use one of those carbon fiber brushes to give it a quick wipe-off before subsequent plays. ryangs fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Aug 3, 2013 |
# ? Aug 3, 2013 05:13 |
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I prefer the little brush on the m97xe up, because the bristles actually "play" the grooves themselves a little bit, resulting in a slight echo effect. If you keep your records clean there's actually no point in using it anyhow.
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# ? Aug 3, 2013 05:50 |
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ryangs posted:Curious what you think of the Shure. I almost got one, because I like to support local, Chicagoland businesses, especially Shure. Strangely enough, though, I couldn't find it at any of my neighborhood stereo shops. I dunno. Definitely better than the AT cart I demoed it with. I should A/B it with the cheaper Shure cart I have hanging out in the additional cart slot (to use when my wife want to play one of her .25c bargain bin records). I would say its very clear, I guess? I'm not up on the audiophile lingo. Can't tell any difference brush up versus down. The literature the cart comes with says it has some kind of dynamic stabilization whatsit to help it maintain optimum height or whatever with warped records, so perhaps that would help with whatever vibration the brush might add? Can't hurt to pick up any dust that's fallen on the record since its started (or before, if you are lazy and don't brush before playing).
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# ? Aug 3, 2013 05:51 |
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Dogen posted:I dunno. Definitely better than the AT cart I demoed it with. You wouldn't happen to remember which AT cart that was, would you? I'm planning to buy an AT cart that definitely costs less than that Shure and I kinda wanna know if it's that one. If not, do you maybe remember what color it was?
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# ? Aug 3, 2013 07:24 |
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I wipe each record with a lint free cloth and then a few turns of the carbon fibre, and the Shure brush still gets full of poo poo after a few sides. Can't win.
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# ? Aug 3, 2013 08:40 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:You wouldn't happen to remember which AT cart that was, would you? I'm planning to buy an AT cart that definitely costs less than that Shure and I kinda wanna know if it's that one. For what it's worth I like both the AT95e and 440MLa more than the M97xe I used to use. The Shure's high range sounded really weak too me, but maybe I'm just getting old and my high frequency hearing is going bad.
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# ? Aug 3, 2013 15:35 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 00:07 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:You wouldn't happen to remember which AT cart that was, would you? I'm planning to buy an AT cart that definitely costs less than that Shure and I kinda wanna know if it's that one. It was like, silver body, brownish yellow stylus cart? Mustard looking. Repair shop guy said it was the cheapest thing he had, knocked off $40 when I passed on it and the headshell. On my old P cart table I had a Shure and an AT and couldn't really tell the difference. Dogen fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Aug 3, 2013 |
# ? Aug 3, 2013 18:49 |