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I said come in! posted:I don't think a DVD player was going to save the Dreamcast. That console was just very poorly marketed, no one wanted to buy one. It doesn't help that the Dreamcast would have needed to be a hit on par with the PS2 in order to make it so that Sega wasn't going to go out of business trying to support it, and it would have needed to be this sort of hit from day one. Sega was only ever competitive during the MasterSystem/Genesis years, and then literally everything they did blew up in their face to some extent. The GameGear was another handheld in the crowd of portables that failed to make the GameBoy sweat. Nobody knew what the hell a Nomad was (I did, little Nomad  ). The Sega CD was mostly irredeemable garbage with occasional greatness scattered here and there. The 32X was the 32X. The Saturn was poorly handled from the word go in every market that wasn't Japan, and like everything of its generation, got it's poo poo pushed in by the PS1, something nobody really predicted.That the Dreamcast even got made is kinda a miracle.
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Aug 2, 2013 07:14
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blackguy32 posted:Lets not forget how pitifully easy it was to pirate on the thing. Even still, what I would give if they ported the DC version of Soul Reaver to other platforms. I feel like the DC pirate scene wasn't that big until the death knell had already been rung for the console. And even then, some games weren't "complete" due to the fact that the GD-ROM format was bigger than regular CD-ROM and data had to be truncated to fit. Am I misremembering?
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Aug 2, 2013 07:22
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DarkSol posted:But you're looking back at what the PS2 was with the benefit of hindsight. When it debuted, no one "knew" it was going to be the greatest system of all time. Sony and the gaming media hyped the poo poo out of their console and they won the war due to propaganda. Do you know what the Ps2 had by its second Christmas? GTA III. Final Fantasy X. Silent Hill 2. Ico. Twisted Metal Black. Burnout. Jak and Daxter. Gran Turismo 3. Metal Gear Solid 2. Devil May Cry. One of these games alone would be enough to sell a console. All of them, by the end of 2001? There was absolutely no way the Dreamcast could compare with that quality. But this is getting off-topic.
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Aug 2, 2013 07:24
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Bobnumerotres posted:The funny thing is that the Wii already has a ton of great games on the VC. If they wanted to, they could just put up a handful of the N64 big hitters on the WiiU VC (Zeldas, Mario 64, StarFox, etc.) for sale and it would do pretty well, not to mention give owners something to loving do. The Virtual Console The sad thing, the WiiU's tablet controller has been overshadowed as well. Both Sony and Microsoft showcased off-play features in E3 with smartglass and cross-play (many of which had better creative use than what Nintendo showed) and developers would rather use existing tablets/smartphones as well. I just don't see how the WiiU can recover barring a miracle.
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Aug 2, 2013 07:30
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DarkSol posted:I feel like the DC pirate scene wasn't that big until the death knell had already been rung for the console. And even then, some games weren't "complete" due to the fact that the GD-ROM format was bigger than regular CD-ROM and data had to be truncated to fit. Nah, Dreamcast piracy came pretty early. I can't remember the timeframe exactly, but a google search reveals that the boot disc was first released in June 2000. Keep in mind, the system was launched in September 1999, so that's within the first year after launch. It didn't get stupidly easy until later, when a later revision of the boot disc could basically be integrated directly into the game image. That way you just stuck in the burned disc and it went, with no disc swapping needed.
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Aug 2, 2013 07:31
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halokiller posted:The sad thing, the WiiU's tablet controller has been overshadowed as well. Both Sony and Microsoft showcased off-play features in E3 with smartglass and cross-play (many of which had better creative use than what Nintendo showed) and developers would rather use existing tablets/smartphones as well. I just don't see how the WiiU can recover barring a miracle. I think there's still a chance we'll see decent stuff done with the gamepad (kinda like Zombiu and how that was pulled off). As nice as the smartglass stuff was to see at E3, the one problem that runs into that the Wii U doesn't for developers, is that you can't force or make some of those features necessary for gameplay because you cannot assume the user is going to have a smartphone or tablet that is compatible with your second screen feature. The one saving stroke for the Wii U is that a developer can already work off the knowledge that the player will have a second screen no matter what. Maybe Watch Dogs will work out well for the Wii U on this...cause at this point, even Nintendo (with a few minor exceptions) has been pretty poo poo with utilizing it (gameplay feature wise). Giant Horn on the screen? I'm still hoping that it's just a placeholder and Nintendo isn't going to be that dumb about it.
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Aug 2, 2013 12:41
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DarkSol posted:I feel like the DC pirate scene wasn't that big until the death knell had already been rung for the console. And even then, some games weren't "complete" due to the fact that the GD-ROM format was bigger than regular CD-ROM and data had to be truncated to fit. It was there pretty early as someone already mentioned but if it wasn't then it would have exploded sooner or later due to more and more people getting broadband and it would have been easier to get the games. Also most games didn't even fill the disc with data.
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Aug 2, 2013 12:48
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Regardless of what someone wants to do with the second screen, in almost all circumstances I'd rather have the ability to play it on the screen only. This was the second worst part of Lego City for me (loading times number one). It had a lot of gamepad features, and I was like "Yeah, I get it" but a lot of the time I'd rather not take up the TV, especially for long grindy exploring and collecting, which is going to provide no entertainment for anyone else in the room. ZombiU was great use of it, but I was unable to finish the game because my wife hated it so much.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:02
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DarkSol posted:Am I misremembering? I'm pretty sure you are. I think Crazy Taxi was the first thing I pirated on broadband.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:04
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I recall that piracy was so out of control, they ran out of Dreamcast games to pirate, and people started pirating PsOne games on the Dreamcast.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:29
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See Mega 64's "Ain't nothing but a Dreamcast baby" Lynx, Jaguar, Nintendo 64, one system came out that crunked up all those before.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:39
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I'd like to say that the Sega Nomad was awesome and more people should have loving bought that thing. I mean, I guess collectively over my life I've played Genesis more than any other console, and I've pretty much always had one hooked up alongside current-gen consoles, but gently caress man, you could play Sonic on the schoolbus, and not that jank-rear end gamegear Sonic! Of course the huge-rear end battery pack only lasted like, an hour, but.
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Aug 2, 2013 14:02
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There is a nomad knockoff available in some Dollar Generals (or maybe it was Dollar Trees) now that comes with a ton of licensed games like that Mega Man 1-3 collection, charges USB, can load games off an sd card, and lasts about for hours for about $30. Don't remember the name, and the build quality sucks, but it's pretty nice.
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Aug 2, 2013 14:19
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Sockser posted:I'd like to say that the Sega Nomad was awesome and more people should have loving bought that thing.
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Aug 2, 2013 14:56
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Handsome Ralph posted:Giant Horn on the screen? I'm still hoping that it's just a placeholder and Nintendo isn't going to be that dumb about it. This sort of thing just doesn't make any sense to me. Nintendo loves local multiplayer- and yet made the big expensive P1-only gamepad. They couldn't just shove a minimap down on there for Mario Kart because that just wouldn't be fair to everyone else- so they put a loving horn on it. I'm sure Nintendo has (or had) big plans for asymmetrical local multiplayer with the gamepad but I just don't see it going anywhere. I mean poo poo, how is the thing going to work for Smash Bros? I seem to remember somebody saying something about how Smash U was going to try to minimize the number of possible control schemes. So why did they bother? If you can't have four of those suckers hooked up to a console, than what's the point? Also, Dreamcast pirating.  I remember a while back (before Obama was elected but not long before) I found out about Dreamcast ISO's from a friend of mine who assured me that all you needed to do was get a regular-rear end CD-R, burn the ISO onto it, and it'll run just like any other Dreamcast game. So now I have Powerstone 2 on an old, nondescript CD-R from like '06 or '07. The Dreamcast has basically no DRM, and I love it.
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Aug 2, 2013 15:21
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punchdaily posted:I feel like the thread title should be changed to "Is the Wii U Nintendo's Gamecube (again)?" While the Gamecube failed to surpass the PS2, it sold only about 2 million less than the Xbox. More importantly, it had a fighting chance with better timing, competitive hardware, and memorable games. The Dreamcast has become a symbol for any console released early that struggles to gain ground before getting permanently overshadowed by more powerful hardware, which is a real risk with the Wii U.
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Aug 2, 2013 17:36
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Toady posted:While the Gamecube failed to surpass the PS2, it sold only about 2 million less than the Xbox. More importantly, it had a fighting chance with better timing, competitive hardware, and memorable games. The Dreamcast has become a symbol for any console released early that struggles to gain ground before getting permanently overshadowed by more powerful hardware, which is a real risk with the Wii U. Games that it did have also sold ridiculously well. Something like 1 in 20 to 1 in 10 of all Gamecube owners had Metroid Prime. To say nothing of things like Super Smash Brothers Melee and others. Do we have any idea the WiiU attach rates?
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Aug 2, 2013 17:41
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DarkSol posted:I feel like the DC pirate scene wasn't that big until the death knell had already been rung for the console. And even then, some games weren't "complete" due to the fact that the GD-ROM format was bigger than regular CD-ROM and data had to be truncated to fit. Well you didn't have to do a single thing to play a burned game, you just popped it in and it worked so anybody with a broadband connection could pirate. There was a guy at my high school who would sell burned games to people for $5, just as much as renting it at good ole Blockbusters. I remember people buying Dreamcasts purely to pirate games. it's crazy to think that the Dreamcast only lasted 16 months before they announced it's cancelation. I thought it's run was much longer.
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Aug 2, 2013 17:50
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Barudak posted:Games that it did have also sold ridiculously well. Something like 1 in 20 to 1 in 10 of all Gamecube owners had Metroid Prime. To say nothing of things like Super Smash Brothers Melee and others.
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Aug 2, 2013 17:53
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Barudak posted:Do we have any idea the WiiU attach rates? Software to hardware sales are 4:1, Nintendoland and NSMBU are both ~60% or thereabouts. ZombiU more like 15% or so? The Wii U was outsold again by the PS3 in Japan last week. They're almost guaranteed 2nd place behind the PS4 but it looks like a distant 2nd.
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Aug 2, 2013 17:54
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Edmund Honda posted:Software to hardware sales are 4:1, Nintendoland and NSMBU are both ~60% or thereabouts. ZombiU more like 15% or so? Its only truly dire if the WiiU is outsold in a month by the Vita prior to a Monster Hunter game or the Xbone by even a single unit*. This would require a month where the WiiU does not sell a single unit.
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Aug 2, 2013 17:57
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Fulchrum posted:Three times. Dreamcast, Jaguar, 3DO. From what I've gathered the Sega CD never got picked up much due to the price and the Saturn announcement shortly after its release. The 32X and Sega CD were developed at the same time by different branches of Sega who weren't really in communication with eachother.
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Aug 2, 2013 17:58
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Edmund Honda posted:The Wii U was outsold again by the PS3 in Japan last week. They're almost guaranteed 2nd place behind the PS4 but it looks like a distant 2nd. So did Microsoft just completely screw themselves over with the XBO then? I don't know anybody that wants the thing now.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:00
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Barudak posted:Its only truly dire if the WiiU is outsold in a month by the Vita prior to a Monster Hunter game or the Xbone by even a single unit*. Vita sold 20k units in Japan last week, 11k Wii Us. Pikmin in its third week up to 135k total. Astro7x posted:So did Microsoft just completely screw themselves over with the XBO then? I don't know anybody that wants the thing now. Worldwide who knows, but I meant specifically Japan -- the 360 is done there (318 sold last week) and Microsoft don't seem interested in launching the XB1 there in any hurry.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:08
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Astro7x posted:So did Microsoft just completely screw themselves over with the XBO then? I don't know anybody that wants the thing now. Japan isn't a big fan of shooting games and that's pretty much all Microsoft pushes, so they have a really bad rep over there. With major WiiU releases coming out during the holidays, the xbone pretty much doesn't stand a chance against it (in japan). Over here, they scared everyone off with the "Big Brother Is Always Watching" bullshit, the high price, and DRM. Even though they went back on their policies they've effectively lost everyone's trust. I think the bone is boned. quote:Pikmin in its third week up to 135k total.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:11
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Toady posted:The Dreamcast has become a symbol for any console released early that struggles to gain ground before getting permanently overshadowed by more powerful hardware, which is a real risk with the Wii U. Yeah, the thread title was really intended more symbolically, I didn't intend to stir so much actual discussion of the Dreamcast but it's been mostly interesting (albeit somewhat off topic). Something more appropriate might have been "Is the Wii U the next Virtual Boy?"
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Aug 2, 2013 18:52
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Just to add to the piracy thing, games on the PS2 were heavily pirated as well. Sure the Dreamcast didn't need hardware modifications but pretty much everyone I knew who had a PS2 had it chipped. Same goes for PS1 actually.
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Aug 2, 2013 19:06
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The thread should be renamed "gently caress the Wii U, bring back the Dreamcast."
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Aug 2, 2013 19:13
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Space Racist posted:Yeah, the thread title was really intended more symbolically, I didn't intend to stir so much actual discussion of the Dreamcast but it's been mostly interesting (albeit somewhat off topic). Something more appropriate might have been "Is the Wii U the next Virtual Boy?"
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Aug 2, 2013 19:34
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Strange Matter posted:When you think about it, the Gamecube was kind of an incredible era for Nintendo creatively, between Metroid Prime, both Pikmin games, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine (which was crazy original if you think about it even if it wasn't that great) and Wind Waker. If the WiiU has enough games even close to that it will be worth owning. If anything, the Gamecube was Nintendo's Dreamcast, being the peak of their 3D creativity. They even managed to successfully outsource games like Metroid Prime and F-ZERO GX to people who knew what they were doing, as well as having a partnership with Capcom that brought incredible exclusive games like Killer7, Viewtiful Joe, Resident Evil 4 and Resident Evil Remake (OK, only the last one actually stayed exclusive, and it was a remake of a game originally on the PSOne). If Nintendo could make a game that would have me throw away my copy of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door for, then I'd feel better about owning a Wii U. At least now we don't have to see great games being ruined by the inclusion of motion controls, like Donkey Kong Country Returns, any more. At least later games like Kirby: Return to Dreamland and Rhythm Heaven Fever didn't use them much at all. E: The five games actually had Dead Phoenix instead of Resident Evil Remake, which was released before the five game deal. However, Dead Phoenix was never released, and P.N.03 was severely rushed and Shinji Mikami doesn't consider it a very good game. I would like to see that enthusiasm for new IPs from Capcom again, but hopefully with more time and effort put in. That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 19:54
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That loving Sned posted:[...]as well as having a partnership with Capcom that brought incredible exclusive games like Killer7, Viewtiful Joe, Resident Evil 4 and Resident Evil Remake (OK, only the last one actually stayed exclusive, and it was a remake of a game originally on the PSOne). Someone is overlooking the fifth gem of the Capcom 5; P.N.03. I don't think that got ported over for rather obvious reasons even if I would buy a sequel.
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Aug 2, 2013 19:57
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Space Racist posted:Yeah, the thread title was really intended more symbolically, I didn't intend to stir so much actual discussion of the Dreamcast but it's been mostly interesting (albeit somewhat off topic). Something more appropriate might have been "Is the Wii U the next Virtual Boy?" I took it as an implication of "Is this Nintendo's last console?" which it almost certainly isn't. I think under the circumstances that the DC comparison is fairly apt, but it's too soon to tell until PS4 and XBone are out in the wild, as well as all of Nintendo's first party stuff. I am also under the impression that a lot of people are kind of digging in their heels and waiting for a price drop, since they now know Nintendo can be pressured into doing just that.
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Aug 2, 2013 20:11
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It's unlikely to be their last console, but it's not far-fetched to think that Nintendo could very well decide that it can't compete against Microsoft and Sony in the home console market and should instead focus on handhelds to compete with smartphones and tablets, where both competitors are weak. Whatever the case, it doesn't seem right now like the Wii U will have much of a presence in the next five years.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:27
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I'm looking forward to the day five years from now when everyone agrees the Wii U's days have run out, notices Nintendo aren't announcing a new console, and the tune changes from "Nintendo need to get out of the console business" to "Nintendo need to start making smartphone games" because whatever they come up with as the successor to the 3DS has some harmless gimmick to set it apart from a generic handheld console made by some company with a two-character name.
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Aug 2, 2013 22:17
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Crosscontaminant posted:I'm looking forward to the day five years from now when everyone agrees the Wii U's days have run out, notices Nintendo aren't announcing a new console, and the tune changes from "Nintendo need to get out of the console business" to "Nintendo need to start making smartphone games" because whatever they come up with as the successor to the 3DS has some harmless gimmick to set it apart from a generic handheld console made by some company with a two-character name. If that even comes close to happening you can probably bank on a multi-billion dollar buyout by Disney.
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Aug 2, 2013 22:21
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Bobnumerotres posted:Japan isn't a big fan of shooting games and that's pretty much all Microsoft pushes, so they have a really bad rep over there. Barudak posted:If that even comes close to happening you can probably bank on a multi-billion dollar buyout by Disney. At that point, Disney would own the all aspects of the personalities of every American male born between 1977 and 1986. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 23:13
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Incidentally, with regards to the Dreamcast, the last hardware revision manufactured eliminated most of the holes allowing for easy piracy, by severely restricting the "MIL-CD" functionality. Had Sega not discontinued the Dreamcast, eventually most Dreamcasts out there would have been revision 2 or later systems, with no capability to play or boot most pirated game discs.
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Aug 2, 2013 23:16
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Strange Matter posted:If it is, it's going to be a lot more destructive than the Virtual Boy ever was, since that was designed to be a seperate product line from either Nintendo's flagship console or its handhelds, whereas the WiiU is Nintendo's console successor. If it goes the same way as the Virtual Boy then heads are going to roll. Nintendo fired the guy who invented the freaking D-Pad over the Virtual Boy. I can't imagine the carnage that would result from the WiiU going down the same way. #IwataSays Who's hiring?
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Aug 3, 2013 00:07
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Crosscontaminant posted:I'm looking forward to the day five years from now when everyone agrees the Wii U's days have run out, notices Nintendo aren't announcing a new console, and the tune changes from "Nintendo need to get out of the console business" to "Nintendo need to start making smartphone games" because whatever they come up with as the successor to the 3DS has some harmless gimmick to set it apart from a generic handheld console made by some company with a two-character name. You do understand the "Nintendo should make games on smartphones" argument has been made by several publications already and I think it was only a few pages ago someone said they need to put Mario in iPad so their kids could play it? While we're at silly hopes, I'm looking forward to the day five years from now when Sony has to sell off all of its assets because it just went nine of 10 years without making profit, only one year making a net profit due to selling their prime real estate buildings in America and Japan.
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Aug 3, 2013 00:22
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I wonder what the continued support of the PS3 will do for the PS4 launch. Watch Dogs and Assassin's Creed 4 are going to be coming out for both consoles, that will have to delay some people in picking up a PS4
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Aug 3, 2013 02:17
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