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jivjov posted:Sounds good to me...call me squeamish if you want, but having a rapist as the protagonist might sour me on a book... Certainly worked for me and the Thomas Covenant series.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:59
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ulmont posted:Certainly worked for me and the Thomas Covenant series. Pshaw. Thomas Covenant is a lightweight in the rape department. Read The Gap Cycle.
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Aug 1, 2013 03:48
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jivjov posted:Sounds good to me...call me squeamish if you want, but having a rapist as the protagonist might sour me on a book...
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Aug 1, 2013 05:10
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Accretionist posted:Not to mention that whinging alleviates the cognitive dissonance from having lots of very desirable and very undesirable material bound up in the same doorstop. This is precisely how I feel.
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Aug 2, 2013 08:27
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Above Our Own posted:That would be pretty lovely. Kvothe still needs to show some genuine character weakness to be compelling, though. Hopefully that will get developed more in the third book, I think there's a lot of room for it in the narrative. Right now all we know he lost a fight somewhere and has given up on something, but I don't think that's very well developed. What books have you been reading that have a Kvothe with no character weaknesses? Dude is horrible with interpersonal skills (it's why he has a tiny little enclave of followers and everybody else just kind of hates him) and has no foresight whatsoever (it's why basically everything bad that happens to him) plus we know he's going to, at some point, have a huge downfall that turns him into Kote. "How the mighty fall" is kind of an awesome story to tell. Character weaknesses aren't "I didn't pump points into my magic stat on this D&D character sheet" and making him turn out to actually be bad at swordfighting or bad at magic or bad at storytelling would fly in the face of "the greatest warrior wizard ever telling the story of his life" which is sort of the point of the whole trilogy.
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Aug 2, 2013 14:16
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Whalley posted:What books have you been reading that have a Kvothe with no character weaknesses? Dude is horrible with interpersonal skills (it's why he has a tiny little enclave of followers and everybody else just kind of hates him) and has no foresight whatsoever (it's why basically everything bad that happens to him) plus we know he's going to, at some point, have a huge downfall that turns him into Kote. "How the mighty fall" is kind of an awesome story to tell. Character weaknesses aren't "I didn't pump points into my magic stat on this D&D character sheet" and making him turn out to actually be bad at swordfighting or bad at magic or bad at storytelling would fly in the face of "the greatest warrior wizard ever telling the story of his life" which is sort of the point of the whole trilogy. Also really, really horrible with women. Specifically Denna. He's pretty much a huge, jealous prick and incredibly self-centered in their relationship. Dude has a lot of flaws.
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Aug 2, 2013 15:35
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CaptCommy posted:Also really, really horrible with women. Specifically Denna. He's pretty much a huge, jealous prick and incredibly self-centered in their relationship. Dude has a lot of flaws. Denna and Kvothe really is the perfect "nice guy" relationship. He buys her stuff and acts like a true friend to her, but she won't sleep with him! In fact she keeps going back to abusive relationships. Kvothe, fantasy Men's Rights Activist.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:13
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It's kind of hilarious how Patrick Rothfuss, a guy who can really intelligently comment on feminism in fantasy and scifi in interviews, has made his nerd projection power fantasy protagonist be a goddamn Nice Guy to boot.
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Aug 2, 2013 19:23
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keiran_helcyan posted:Denna and Kvothe really is the perfect "nice guy" relationship. He buys her stuff and acts like a true friend to her, but she won't sleep with him! In fact she keeps going back to abusive relationships. Kvothe, fantasy Men's Rights Activist. And let's not forget the scene where Kvothe was so angry at Denna that he almost called her a whore. Or how he goes on that the people she's with are just shallow idiots who don't know her the way he does. All sorts of Nice Guy-isms are in place. I wish I could believe that this was intentional and Rothfuss is trying to be ironic about the whole Nice Guy thing, but I'm fairly sure it's not the case (I'd like to be wrong on this though, it'd be a pleasant surprise!). Srice fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 20:21
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Denna does call Kvothe on this poo poo and put him in his place pretty well. Kvothe doesn't seem to internalize what she's saying, but she says it. It reminds me of the Kvothe consistently finds people who are better at a thing than he is (there are characters better with instruments, with stronger alars, better naming skills) but Kvothe just goes right on feeling totally awesome. I remain hopeful that his crisis of confidence in Doors of Stone will be beautiful to read. Probably painful, too.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:57
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ulmont posted:Certainly worked for me and the Thomas Covenant series. To be fair to Donaldson, the rape is treated really seriously as a really horrible thing with a profound impact on the rest of the story.
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Aug 2, 2013 23:12
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Srice posted:And let's not forget the scene where Kvothe was so angry at Denna that he almost called her a whore. Read the post immediately above yours, because I'm certain your wrong: quote:It's kind of hilarious how Patrick Rothfuss, a guy who can really intelligently comment on feminism in fantasy and scifi in interviews, has made his nerd projection power fantasy protagonist be a goddamn Nice Guy to boot. Rothfuss is a smart man. He can comment on feminism in fantasy because he gets it. This is why I cannot stand people who think Kvothe is a self-insert. Sure, maybe he's a little too good at too many things, but that's because the story is about a Man of Legend. I can 100% guarantee that this is not a loving self-insert, woe-is-me nice guys story. His treatment of Denna has never worked out for him and that's not going to change until he grows the gently caress up.
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Aug 2, 2013 23:44
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Personally, I get the occasional self-insertion vibe but I have a hard copy so I can't search up appropriate sections. I recall a line in Wise Man's Fear which was like '[Qualification for man with feminist opinion], [characterization of typical resistance], but some people ["don't get me" or "don't understand me" (as negation of aforementioned resistance).]' and it felt like a pretty direct wink to the reader, but I can't remember the context. This ring any bells? Accretionist fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 00:00
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CaptCommy posted:Rothfuss is a smart man. He can comment on feminism in fantasy because he gets it. This is why I cannot stand people who think Kvothe is a self-insert. Sure, maybe he's a little too good at too many things, but that's because the story is about a Man of Legend. I can 100% guarantee that this is not a loving self-insert, woe-is-me nice guys story. His treatment of Denna has never worked out for him and that's not going to change until he grows the gently caress up. I'd buy this more readily had it not been for that one blog post he made about The Hobbit movie and comparing it to that shy, sweet girl he used to know that became a party girl who was popular with everyone.
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Aug 3, 2013 01:07
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CaptCommy posted:Read the post immediately above yours, because I'm certain your wrong: Rothfuss is a good writer and I'd like to see him move on from the Kingkiller series just to see him write about something he doesn't have a vested attachment in from his younger college self.
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Aug 3, 2013 01:33
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Above Our Own posted:He's telling the story as his adult self. Kvothe never grows up and matures his views and the books don't really convey how awkward and flawed those ideas are either. The story foreshadows that Denna dies, and I'll bet my bottom dollar Kvothe's great "failure" ends up being "..and although I am truly awesome and good, I wasn't awesome enough to save her" or some poo poo. Plus while telling the story in the present day, Kvothe owns up to certain things. Admitting when he made mistakes and all that. The fact that he doesn't admit that he's in the wrong when talking about Denna is rather compelling evidence that he never grew out of those Nice Guy-isms. There's a small chance that Rothfuss could be making fun of that situation, but I have my doubts due to stuff like the metaphor he used to describe why he hates the Lord of the Rings movies. I hope the third book proves me wrong, but I'm not counting on it! Above Our Own posted:Rothfuss is a good writer and I'd like to see him move on from the Kingkiller series just to see him write about something he doesn't have a vested attachment in from his younger college self. Yeah, this. He has some talent so I'm hoping he has another story in him once The Doors of Stone is finished for that exact reason (and I especially hope that it puts an end to Kvothe's story. There's a lot of loose ends but those can be fixed with some brisk pacing. If the book after that is Kvothe's adventures in the present day, then I give up). Though I do hope that for whatever he has planned in the future, he can get an editor that does more than say "don't make the book so long that it can't be physically made".
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Aug 3, 2013 02:05
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Above Our Own posted:He's telling the story as his adult self. Kvothe never grows up and matures his views and the books don't really convey how awkward and flawed those ideas are either. The story foreshadows that Denna dies, and I'll bet my bottom dollar Kvothe's great "failure" ends up being "..and although I am truly awesome and good, I wasn't awesome enough to save her" or some poo poo. Yeah, he's telling the story himself. And the story works a lot better if it's told from his perspective growing up. The chapters inside the frame very rarely, if ever, mention things he doesn't learn until later. It's told in a very chronological way, outside of the Inn chapters. Also, he's a professional story teller. If his falling out with Denna is what causes Kvothe to become Kote, he's not going to throw that out in the first book. He wants to surprise you with it. He wants you to realize Kvothe is poo poo with women without explicitly telling you that, because Kvothe in the first person didn't realize that at the time. He owns up to mistakes when it's dramatically appropriate to do so.
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Aug 3, 2013 02:12
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CaptCommy posted:Read the post immediately above yours, because I'm certain your wrong: "You believe in the foolish tale of man-mothers!? How delightfully naive of you" I don't think any culture ever made it past the discovery of bronze without making the connection between sex and pregnancy. No one has really been arguing that Kvothe is a self-insert, just that he's arbitrarily perfect in so many ways despite his 'hardships' that they isn't any compelling drama to the story and the constant stream of "then I had sex with a fairy goddess and was so good she let me live/a village of sexy female ninjas fell in love with me and I was the only male to master their secret arts" does nothing to move forward the elaborate mysterious Chandrian story or any of the other massive dangling plot threads. The book series is supposed to cover Kvothe's life and his enormous legend yet 2 900 page books in Rothfuss is still writing about school hijinks and summer adventures. Either he's doing a poo poo job at pacing or his editor doesn't give a gently caress and is just looking at sales figures telling him "yeah, don't worry, we can stretch this trilogy out, just write what you like".
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Aug 3, 2013 03:11
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pentyne posted:...a village of sexy female ninjas fell in love with me...  Don't judge me; I finish the booked a day or two ago.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:47
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pentyne posted:No one has really been arguing that Kvothe is a self-insert, An extreme example of a self-insert character would be like John Galt. They highlight the superiority of a viewpoint instead of being actual characters as part of a story. It's common in a lot of cautionary literature like Fahrenheit 451. It's just out of place here and not well executed. e. Whalley posted:What books have you been reading that have a Kvothe with no character weaknesses? Dude is horrible with interpersonal skills (it's why he has a tiny little enclave of followers and everybody else just kind of hates him) and has no foresight whatsoever (it's why basically everything bad that happens to him) plus we know he's going to, at some point, have a huge downfall that turns him into Kote. "How the mighty fall" is kind of an awesome story to tell. Character weaknesses aren't "I didn't pump points into my magic stat on this D&D character sheet" and making him turn out to actually be bad at swordfighting or bad at magic or bad at storytelling would fly in the face of "the greatest warrior wizard ever telling the story of his life" which is sort of the point of the whole trilogy. His interpersonal skills are way above average - he endears himself to many powerful people including the Maer and several high ranking University faculty. Not something that most people would be able to do. He talks his way into free admission at the fantasy equivalent of Harvard, convinces the most powerful Namer known to accept him into his class, becomes a consort with a primal sex goddess, and convinces a warrior race to accept an outsider for the first time in their history. I'd say his interpersonals are pretty fuckin' good. I agree that the overall plot setup is really good and that I'm really engaged by all the dangling plot mysteries. Above Our Own fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 04:58
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Accretionist posted:Personally, I get the occasional self-insertion vibe but I have a hard copy so I can't search up appropriate sections. If it's what I'm thinking of, it's talking about Kvothe comparing women to musical instruments or something like that. It's extremely cringeworthy, and "you just don't understand" or whatever he ends with is incredibly hollow. The close reading of Rothfuss that has been linked a couple of times called him out on it - pointing out that having the woman as an instrument that Kvothe plays completely removes any agency or self-direction from the woman.
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Aug 4, 2013 02:59
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He compares them to live music fit for dancing which is a bit less agency reducing, but still.
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Aug 4, 2013 16:53
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Can I ask where this idea that Rothfuss is a feminist comes from? Is it purely from his claim to be a feminist? His portrayal of women thus far has been anything but feminist and his ideas are problematic to say the least. For example, his take on wanting a woman to hang on to him during a horror movie:Patrick Rothfuss posted:And you know what? I’m gonna be completely honest with you here. Occasionally, it’s nice to have an attractive young woman cling to you in a moment of pure animal terror. Note the image is rehosted on imgur because I'm not sure about the rules on image leeching but that image appears in his blog at that point. Blind Melon posted:He compares them to live music fit for dancing which is a bit less agency reducing, but still. Except Rothfuss removes agency from his female characters constantly. The character Fela, the only woman at the university who gets a relatively decent amount of description and characterization, is constantly re-evaluated by her relationship to men. She is stated to have a crush on Kvothe in the first book (what woman in this story doesn't), but then she only becomes a central character again after expressing desire in Kvothe's friend Simmon. She rarely if ever given importance in the story unless her desire for a man is stated or implied. Moreover, the only dislikes she's shown to have are for characters who Kvothe himself hates. Her agency is removed before it even has a chance to be. A similar problem occurs with Vashet, Kvothe's Adem trainer. At the beginning of Kvothe's training, her depiction is one of an outsider or other. She is described in foreign terms and acts as the stereotypical indigenous master--trying to break the foreign intruder of his otherness to Adem culture. But after her sexual relationship with Kvothe begins, she receives more characterization and depth which further shows how Rothfuss creates women whose most important value is their relationship with a man. I do not have my books give more specific examples unfortunately as I am packing up to move. So Rothfuss is not a feminist in my mind's eye, or at least not a very good one. He's arguably less of a feminist than Joss Whedon. fakeedit: The frame narrative doesn't excuse these depictions unless they are proven to be solely Kvothe's invention which I highly doubt they ever will be. I also doubt the claim that Kvothe is an unreliable narrator as nothing has been shown to refute the truth of Kvothe's story thus far. The only evidence for an unreliable narrator is the idea that someone cannot talk about themselves objectively.
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Aug 6, 2013 04:44
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If you think that poo poo wrecks his feminist credentials, wait until you read what he said about the Hobbit film adaptation. Rothfuss pretty clearly means well, in the sense that he thinks he's a feminist and he might even be writing a series that is calling Kvothe out for being the ultimate Nice Guy (as people have pointed out, Denna does seem to diagnose the problem accurately, even if it doesn't make it into Kvothe's thick loving skull) but Rothfuss isn't exactly Gloria Steinem with a beard.
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Aug 6, 2013 04:59
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Srice posted:And let's not forget the scene where Kvothe was so angry at Denna that he almost called her a whore. Ummmm...what? It's pretty obvious throughout the books that Kvothe's behavior is supposed to be interpreted as idiotic by the reader. I mean, how many times do you have to read about his friends shaking their heads while sadly smiling at his bumbling attempts to win the girl?
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Aug 6, 2013 07:56
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uber posted:Ummmm...what? It's pretty obvious throughout the books that Kvothe's behavior is supposed to be interpreted as idiotic by the reader. I mean, how many times do you have to read about his friends shaking their heads while sadly smiling at his bumbling attempts to win the girl? I have to agree, especially because when Kvothe goes off on his own for a while and meets Denna again at the end of the story (thus far), he kind of realises that it was a strange and unhealthy thing they had going. I also agree there's some strange notions in the second book especially that made me cringe into the ground, but still... I feel like those are leftover bits of bad plot from his college years and from checking out his blog every so often he just seems like a good guy. He tries at the very least, and that's a lot more than I can say from most Fantasy authors and the "gritty fantasy = rape" trend which is going on right now. The truth is I just really, really enjoy reading about how Kvothe is going to pull it all off this time. The bits with the bandit camp are so much fun to read and I remember being riveted during the first performance at the Eolian. I hope we can just forget about any Denna "romance" for a while and just get the hell on with it.
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Aug 6, 2013 13:32
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Good god is the dialogue in scenes were Kvothe talks to women terrible. I would hate to try and flirt with Patrick Rothfuss.
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Aug 13, 2013 05:52
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Yeah, I get that there are totally cringeworthy scenes, but I'm doing a re-read and I have to say my impression is no different this time around--the guy writes the best loving prose in fantasy, no question. Even when he's talking about Denna, even when it's creepy as gently caress, it's just absolutely beautiful. I can't even take it seriously because it just coats all my neurons in honey, so I can't make myself get worked up about how goony he is. And honestly, it's obvious that there's lots of girls who aren't offended or creeped out by it. It feels weird to get all mad on someone's behalf who doesn't seem to give a gently caress. I've been following this thread for a while. Is there a female opinion on this? Do you give even a tiny poo poo one way or the other?
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Aug 13, 2013 09:51
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:I've been following this thread for a while. Is there a female opinion on this? Do you give even a tiny poo poo one way or the other? I think Kvothe is a creep and Rothfuss has expressed some creepy sentiments though I do honestly think he means well*. However, I'm personally not sold that the text is endorsing Kvothe being a creep or a gently caress-up, even if he's still both in the present day segments. That is just how I have taken it and I am pretty relaxed about such things in general; I'd fully understand someone being more bothered by the first two things or not agreeing on the last. *Which doesn't really excuse having expressed them, but I don't strictly have a problem with someone considering themself a feminist even if there's still things they sorely need to learn. neongrey fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Aug 13, 2013 |
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Aug 13, 2013 09:57
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neongrey posted:*Which doesn't really excuse having expressed them, but I don't strictly have a problem with someone considering themself a feminist even if there's still things they sorely need to learn. Which is exactly the thing for me--the guy clearly cares, and I don't think he's rapey or domestic violency. Whether he's "enlightened" or not, he gives a gently caress, and we aren't at the point yet where that's irrelevant.
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Aug 13, 2013 10:24
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:I've been following this thread for a while. Is there a female opinion on this? Do you give even a tiny poo poo one way or the other? I kind of agree with you, to be honest, in that Rothfuss's prose is just so good it's hard to get worked up about anything else. But, yes, absolutely some of the things he/Kvothe says about Denna bother me and some of the stuff he's put on his blog (where I don't get beautiful prose to look at) are creepy. Also, I don't think we're being geared up for an ending where Denna gets to be happy with anyone but Kvothe and that bothers me. So either they will get together or she'll be alone / with someone else and unhappy because clearly they are 'meant to be together'. Or at least, that's the impression I get. Maybe the third book will prove me wrong but at the moment I can't see it.
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Aug 13, 2013 11:30
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neongrey posted:I think Kvothe is a creep and Rothfuss has expressed some creepy sentiments though I do honestly think he means well*. However, I'm personally not sold that the text is endorsing Kvothe being a creep or a gently caress-up, even if he's still both in the present day segments. This is basically how I feel. I can absolutely see how someone who believes wholly in the message behind feminism and thus would label themselves as feminist would say something like the above out of naivety. And I'm ok with that. In the end, I love the way he writes and he honestly seems like a good guy.
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Aug 13, 2013 12:36
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Maybe we all have it completely wrong and Kvothe/Kote is a raging psycopath. What's locked in the trunk? Denna. If Kvothe can't have her, no one can!
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Aug 13, 2013 12:44
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Yeah, I felt the text (or adult!Kvothe, whatever) was pretty clear that Kvothe went up to Denna and was all 'yeah, I got trained by a sex goddess, also I've been sleeping with lots of people, I'm not a dumb teenager anymore, gently caress me this time?' And she was like 'Christ on a stick kid, I like you, but you keep missing the point don't you...' I think it's telling that Denna's conversation with the run away girl basically totally didn't register with young Kvothe (because it hosed with his sainted image of her) but that in retrospect old storyteller Kvothe was basically 'and this is a totally huge thing about what made Denna Denna that I totally missed.' Like, a huuuuuuge part of that was Denna basically saying to the girl 'if you don't want to be a whore, you can lead people on and just bail when they get too pushy. It's one way to live but it's hella risky and you'll make a lot of enemies.' Kvothe's next approach to Denna was 'sex sex sex sex I'm good at sex now with lots of ladies sex.' At which point she bailed, like, immediately. As with a lot of his 'being the best at this thing moments,' being good at doing a thing isn't the same as know when/how to to do a thing like that. I think Kote and Eladrin try to hammer this into the reader/young Kvothe, to evidently mixed success.
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Aug 13, 2013 16:22
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It's not even just that Roathfuss comes off as creepy or anti-feminist (I agree he's probably more naive than malicious) but seriously go find a scene from NotW in which Kvothe talks to Denna. Go read a few of those goddamn scenes. The writing is bizarre because Denna's reactions to Kvothe are ridiculous. Go to a bar and try to talk to a real woman that way and see what happens. Spoiler alert: They'll think you're loving weird, and so will everyone around you. Kvothe admits he's bad with women (and that's fine, this being the Something Awful forums, I can't imagine many of you had a clue at age 15 either, I sure didn't) but the women 15 year-old Kvothe encounters don't behave like real women at all. They behave pretty much exactly like a clueless 15 year old boy's bizarre mental caricature of women, in fact. Where did Rothfuss grow up where women in their early 20s are seriously interested in 15 year old boys anyhow? It's weird. Have you met any fifteen year old boys lately? They look like children. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 07:40
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:And honestly, it's obvious that there's lots of girls who aren't offended or creeped out by it. It feels weird to get all mad on someone's behalf who doesn't seem to give a gently caress. Why are you assuming everyone who has posted in the thread so far is male? Ogmius815 posted:Kvothe admits he's bad with women (and that's fine, this being the Something Awful forums, I can't imagine many of you had a clue at age 15 either, I sure didn't) but the women 15 year-old Kvothe encounters don't behave like real women at all. They behave pretty much exactly like a clueless 15 year old boy's bizarre mental caricature of women, in fact. To be as maximally fair to Rothfuss as he deserves, it's not like any of his other characters are bastions of verisimilitude either. Hemme, Ambrose, even Elodin are not exactly like any real people I've ever met. There are fantasy authors who do a pretty good job of characterizing people in that particular way, which to be clear is a totally different thing from creating characters who are compelling, but it's not Rothfuss's strong suit at all. None of his characters really behave like real people, when it comes right down to it. Actually, the ones who seem to act most like real people with their own agendas and personalities apart from how they react to/interact with Kvothe are the ones who are the least human, ie the Chandrian, Halifax, and the Cthaeh. If that hollowness was the only goony thing about how he writes women, personally I'd give him a pass, but it's not.
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Aug 14, 2013 08:11
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I guess I've always just chalked the "not acting like a real person" stuff as Kvothe exaggerating. In the beginning of the book, he even explicitly says that trick to telling a good story is knowing when and how much to lie. It's kind of tough, because you don't want to start being an apologist for his goonyness, but I really think at least half of it is intentional. HELLO LADIES posted:Why are you assuming everyone who has posted in the thread so far is male? I assume everyone on the internet is a nullo until I hear otherwise. As a male, who spent a lot of time being super scared of girls, I can say that I sympathize a lot with Kvothe's stupidity. And I've known girls kind of like Denna, so it doesn't strike me as unbelievable enough to kick me out of the story. I've always read his comparison of Denna to a deer or whatever as an overly-flowerly way of saying "calm down dude, don't come on too strong". Likewise for other improbable reactions from tertiary characters. But one thing I've never heard is, what do women think about that? Is it incredibly obvious when you're dealing with a guy that's trying not to come on too strong? I've had girls tell me later that they didn't think I liked them that much when really I was just trying not to come off as a creep even though I really found them super interesting to talk to and also wanted to hump them as soon as possible. So, I don't know... it comes off as somewhat believable to me when you consider that it's coming from someone who openly admitted at the start that the absolute truth of a story is only of minor importance as long as the heart of it is right. Do women have a lot of agency in these books? No. But it's a first-person narrative, by an author that seems to have a very strong view of who exactly Kvothe is, and Kvothe has no eyes for anyone but Denna. It just makes sense to me, when you consider that all this stuff is coming from Kvothe's fairly narcissistic head. I'm still having a hard time deciding if it's impressive due to his ability to stay in-character even down to deciding when Kvothe is embellishing, or if it's disappointing because Kvothe's foibles are unintentional leaks of the author's views. Honestly, I could deal with never finding out a solid answer to that as long as there's a good ending.
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Aug 14, 2013 09:54
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Rurutia posted:This is basically how I feel. I can absolutely see how someone who believes wholly in the message behind feminism and thus would label themselves as feminist would say something like the above out of naivety. And I'm ok with that. In the end, I love the way he writes and he honestly seems like a good guy. I stand by what I said earlier - he seems to have a caricaturised view of sexism as people who actively, violently hate women. Therefore, he thinks his attitude of "but I like women and want to cherish them and treat them nice  " is feminist.This isn't exactly the worst thing ever - it's pretty nice, in a naive and (I guess I don't want to speak for women here, but it seems to me) pretty loving patronising way. I'm sure he's ok in everyday life. But it really does not equip him well to write female characters or romance plots, or to understand what's wrong with his female characters and romances. Seriously I've read a couple of his blog posts where he angrily responds to being told he's kind of sexist and he just doesn't get it at all. I don't think his attitudes make him a bad person, but they seriously negatively impact his writing.
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Aug 14, 2013 20:11
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The most irritating Rothfuss character isn't a poorly written women. It's Bast. Oh my god do I hate basically everything about Bast, which is a shame because I think the frame story is actually my favorite part of the books. I make it sound like I don't enjoy the books, but I do. I'll definitely buy the third one. It's just that the criticisms in this thread are really very valid.
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Aug 15, 2013 02:31
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| # ? May 9, 2024 15:23 |
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Ogmius815 posted:The most irritating Rothfuss character isn't a poorly written women. It's Bast. Oh my god do I hate basically everything about Bast, which is a shame because I think the frame story is actually my favorite part of the books. I feel like Bast is a poorly written woman by extension, given that every village girl ever in the Hicksville they're staying in apparently loves him and wants his D 
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Aug 15, 2013 05:06
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