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Bitter_one13 posted:lack of real-world input than inherent flaws in her character. The entire story is based on her hilariously crippling social anxiety. That's one hell of a character flaw.
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Aug 3, 2013 00:55
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XboxPants posted:Wow, that was a lot of creepy anime sexual stuff. Up until now I felt like the show was "weird & occasionally creepy", and that last episode took it up a few notches to "creepy & occasionally offensive". Is this series gonna continue to pander primarily to perverted otaku tropes?
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Aug 3, 2013 02:50
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Zogundar posted:If I remember correctly, the word was left "untranslated" because she was actually using the word "bitch." Based on the way she used it though, I think that word means something else/has a different connotation in Japanese (Or at least Tomoko thought it did.) Fun Fact: When you hear a Japanized "Bicchi" (bitch), it tends to carry a connotation of "slut". No idea how that association came to be, but that's generally how it's used.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:27
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Epoxy Bulletin posted:Fun Fact: When you hear a Japanized "Bicchi" (bitch), it tends to carry a connotation of "slut". No idea how that association came to be, but that's generally how it's used. So when Garterbelt called Panty and Stocking "Bitchy angels", he didn't mean that they were unpleasant angels, he meant that they were "slutty angels". Huh!
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Aug 3, 2013 03:32
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I don't really see it as pandering. I have heard people say that Tomoko's character itself is pandering, but I don't really see that either because Tomoko is modeled off of the author at that age. So yeah, just to make some of these skits even funnier/more awkward keep in mind that some of them may have happened to the author at some point, and that the author may have had these thoughts you see from Tomoko in the past. If the author of this is a woman I'm definitely willing to give more benefit of the doubt. That's good to hear. Mutation posted:(I guess implied Manga spoilers?) Wasn't the stuff this episode using some of the most awkward material to date? Also very happy if that's true. I was just worried because it seemed like the tone was suddenly becoming more explicit, so I wondered what was coming next based on that - but if these chapters aren't in order then I don't have to worry about that.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:44
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New Manga Chapter. Looks like Tomoko's finally got a bit of a little rival! And an unrequited one at that! Oh joy.  As ever the facial expressions are great.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:51
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XboxPants posted:If the author of this is a woman I'm definitely willing to give more benefit of the doubt. That's good to hear. Yeah, she is. I ran across that when there was a incident after the manga became popular on 4chan, where some 4chaner sent her a picture of his dick.  Her response to the whole thing was pretty hilarious, she feigned ignorance of what the picture was and when someone told her on twitter she said something along the lines of "I've never seen one that looks like that!"
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Aug 3, 2013 03:56
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XboxPants posted:If the author of this is a woman I'm definitely willing to give more benefit of the doubt. That's good to hear. I believe it's a two person team, the writer is male and the artist is female, and the manga is based on the artist's life. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Aug 3, 2013 04:33
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DrSunshine posted:New Manga Chapter. Oh, so she appears from Tomotoe? That will be interesting. And there's going to be another character in Tomotoe it seems
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Aug 3, 2013 04:56
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DrSunshine posted:New Manga Chapter. Prediction: (manga spoilers) I'm guessing that Tomoko is going to go the entire run of the manga never really cottoning on to how personally this girl hates her, because complete obliviousness is funny.
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Aug 3, 2013 14:01
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DrSunshine posted:I think we could make an interesting comparison between Tomoko and Konata from Lucky Star. They're characters from the same "archetypal mold", so to speak, the "female otaku character", but spun in two different ways. Konata is clearly meant to pander to the show's intended audience -- "Hey look you guys it's a cute girl character and she's just like you, isn't that great?!!". Tomoko on the other hand, embodies the same message, but spoken with a tone of derision: "Hey look you guys, it's a 'cute' girl character and she's just like you. See how awful you are? Sort your goddamn life out!" I think it's sort of refreshing to see a female nerdy character who is not just a cute girl itching to break free, but who is actually quite unpleasant and genuinely socially awkward (because spending all your time indulging in media and only media isn't really the recipe to a well-balanced individual). I don't think it's done with derision, I very much get the sense that both of the creators have gone through similar circumstances and want to express an experience they've had. I think the 'this cute girl is just like you' Konata-type trope is the more derisive character type, because it's really saying 'you're lonely and we're selling you what you desire, give us money'. Don't mistake a character made to appeal to an audience as being made with love for that audience; sometimes it's just straight capitalism and people taking advantage of someone's weak point. Television is a business, after all. Konata is made to sell merch; she can only succeed as a character based on the assumption that nerdy men are so pathetic, they will obsess over her. I really 'like' Tomoko. Because seeing a female character be angry, violent, misanthropic in this way is sort of freeing. The female nerd stereotype, of all being misunderstood flowers...it's boring and made to appeal to lonely dudes. I wouldn't say I 'like' her in that I think she's a good person; but she's a complex person. She is caught in a vicious cycle of lashing out at people for rejecting her, which makes them reject her more and makes her more angry, and she withdraws further. The misanthropic nerd is something you see a lot of in real life if you spend any time doing nerdy hobbies, but not often in media except as a joke, like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. This is the most sympathetic portrayal of this sort of character as you can get. For example, I watched Princess Jellyfish recently and really liked it because aw hey, awkward girl main character, but Watamote completely blows it out of the water. Comparing the two, suddenly Princess Jellyfish is a show about a normal girl who just doesn't do much fancy with her hair. I also like that she is portrayed as entirely oversexed, because oh my god yes, nerdy girls can be incredibly lusty due to having no outlet. Often the 'nerdy girl' type is portrayed as incredibly virginal and pure (and scared of boys); Tomoko is not...instead she thinks about what kinds of dicks her class-mates must have and googles pictures of penises at school Also, this isn't directed at you, but I wanted to respond to some discussion from earlier in the thread: I disagree with the assessment that the point of this comic is that she isn't going to improve, or that she hasn't improved at all. I marathoned the manga recently, but I started from the middle and then looped back around and read the beginning. Seeing where she started vs where she is now so directly contrasted, she's doing a lot better. She started off having not spoken to someone in months, to making an effort to speak to someone every day and mostly succeeding. She's also getting better at going out by herself, which leads to moments like when she would visit the cafe to watch anime with the young office worker dude who was slacking; Tomoko from the beginning of the manga would never have been brave enough to sit next to a random guy daily and watch anime with him. Not only that, but to do it with a minimum of anxiety. That said, it's Tomoko, so 'better' is relative. But things are changing for her, just incredibly slowly. It's kind of amazing she hasn't just given up, because it's torturously slow improvement that would dishearten most normal people. Also hey everyone I just read/watched this due to this thread - thanks for the rec! StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 00:32
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StrangersInTheNight posted:Also, this isn't directed at you, but I wanted to respond to some discussion from earlier in the thread: I disagree with the assessment that the point of this comic is that she isn't going to improve, or that she hasn't improved at all. I marathoned the manga recently, but I started from the middle and then looped back around and read the beginning. Seeing where she started vs where she is now so directly contrasted, she's doing a lot better. She started off having not spoken to someone in months, to making an effort to speak to someone every day and mostly succeeding. She's also getting better at going out by herself, which leads to moments like when she would visit the cafe to watch anime with the young office worker dude who was slacking; Tomoko from the beginning of the manga would never have been brave enough to sit next to a random guy daily and watch anime with him. Not only that, but to do it with a minimum of anxiety. That said, it's Tomoko, so 'better' is relative. But things are changing for her, just incredibly slowly. It's kind of amazing she hasn't just given up, because it's torturously slow improvement that would dishearten most normal people.
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Aug 4, 2013 01:10
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StrangersInTheNight posted:Also, this isn't directed at you, but I wanted to respond to some discussion from earlier in the thread: I disagree with the assessment that the point of this comic is that she isn't going to improve, or that she hasn't improved at all. I marathoned the manga recently, but I started from the middle and then looped back around and read the beginning. Seeing where she started vs where she is now so directly contrasted, she's doing a lot better. She started off having not spoken to someone in months, to making an effort to speak to someone every day and mostly succeeding. She's also getting better at going out by herself, which leads to moments like when she would visit the cafe to watch anime with the young office worker dude who was slacking; Tomoko from the beginning of the manga would never have been brave enough to sit next to a random guy daily and watch anime with him. Not only that, but to do it with a minimum of anxiety. That said, it's Tomoko, so 'better' is relative. But things are changing for her, just incredibly slowly. It's kind of amazing she hasn't just given up, because it's torturously slow improvement that would dishearten most normal people. Sure she can get a little better, but my point is still the same. If she recovered totally it would defeat the point of the manga. What would it even be about at that point they would have to end it. All the comedy comes from her inability to perform socially, take that away and you have no jokes. I was just warning people, if you are expecting Onani Master level character redemption I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
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Aug 5, 2013 19:07
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I don't think anyone mentioned this... A couple eps back when she was trying to catch her brother's cold, I thought it was sweet that for all their poo poo-talking she still got up in the middle of the night to change the cloth on his head.  (Even if she forgot to wring it out  )
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Aug 5, 2013 19:49
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StrangersInTheNight posted:She is caught in a vicious cycle of lashing out at people for rejecting her, which makes them reject her more and makes her more angry, and she withdraws further. But they don't reject her? Almost everything is in her head.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:22
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redsniper posted:I don't think anyone mentioned this... That made me so laugh so drat much. It was sort of sweet I guess, but mostly felt like a brazen example of Tomoko not givin a gently caress.
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Aug 5, 2013 23:05
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Ytlaya posted:But they don't reject her? Almost everything is in her head. Yeah, like the scene where she's caught in the rain. She makes some awkward small talk and jokes and runs away before the two guys also under there can do anything other than furrow their eyebrows and say, "huh?" Then she complains on her way home that she wishes JUST ONCE a guy would be nice to her...while using an umbrella a guy bought for her to replace her broken one, which she didn't notice because she decided to take a nap on the bench. UP AND ADAM posted:That made me so laugh so drat much. It was sort of sweet I guess, but mostly felt like a brazen example of Tomoko not givin a gently caress. That's what I thought too. She was just like, "hmph, here, now I'm going the gently caress back to sleep." I liked when their mom brought food for him, and then Tomoko just ate it for herself once the mom left. Tomoko's the worst sister ever.
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Aug 5, 2013 23:21
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Do we ever find out why she's so broken? She obviously had at least one friend before high school, one that quite normal (stereotipically so) despite her sharing her interests in manga/anime/etc., so why is she the one that's socially incompetent?
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Aug 5, 2013 23:50
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Could be an undiagnosed mental condition. Or she could just be an anime character.
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Aug 5, 2013 23:52
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ViggyNash posted:Do we ever find out why she's so broken? She obviously had at least one friend before high school, one that quite normal (stereotipically so) despite her sharing her interests in manga/anime/etc., so why is she the one that's socially incompetent? It really looked like her friend was quite awkward back then too, it just seems like they were two nerds who found each other. Her friend decided to shape herself up for high school while Tomoko stayed reclusive. There doesn't have to be a big event that pushes someone to become an awkward shut-in. Some people are just naturally shy and have trouble dealing with other people. When that happens they recede inside their own interests/hobbies because it's the only way they know how to pass the time. The longer they do this, the more social interaction they're missing, and the more out of touch they'll be. Tomoko is someone who's missed years of interaction, so she's going to be an outsider.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:24
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I also doubt that it was a single trauma that caused it, but what was it about her life that led her here? That's what I want to know. Also, how was Yuu able to change so drastically when Tomoko didn't change at all? I doubt they will really answer those questions, but they're interesting questions to keep in mind.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:38
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ViggyNash posted:I also doubt that it was a single trauma that caused it, but what was it about her life that led her here? That's what I want to know. Also, how was Yuu able to change so drastically when Tomoko didn't change at all? I doubt they will really answer those questions, but they're interesting questions to keep in mind. I think Tomoko would be at least slightly less messed up if her parents cared more about her social life. Having said that, sometimes she seems to have actual mental problems that go beyond social anxiety. Before diagnosing her with something like borderline personality disorder, though, it's probably best to take a step back and keep in mind that characterization in this type of story tends to be somewhat hyperbolic for comedic effect.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:21
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Watamote is actually a statement on the uncaringness of Japanese parents and the brutality of the Japanese workplace. The father works himself to death to support his family and never takes enough time to spend with his daughter, and the mother just wants to apathetically toe the line until the little urchins are out of the house and her life forever, ultimately leading to the stronger of the two to survive despite this while the weaker one descends into a pit of psychosis. It's Very Deep.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:33
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She spent all of middle school playing porn games instead of talking with others, thus making her socially inept. Videogames are to blame clearly.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:55
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Well she had at least 2 friends in middle school. (One of which hated her because she was a massive bitch to her.)
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Aug 6, 2013 04:20
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well she had at least 2 friends in middle school. (One of which hated her because she was a massive bitch to her.) The most recent issue makes it seems like she had 3, but forgot the one she hated. Another special ending this week. I would love it if someone told me what it was referencing. They got a lot out of this one considering how few pages they had to work with.
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Aug 6, 2013 05:32
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There's a new episode out. Some of Tomoko's internal ranting at her classmates for wanting to be in relationships and calling her only friend but she's busy because boyfriends is bringing back some unpleasant memories. Funny episode though.
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Aug 6, 2013 06:38
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The ending theme was amazing. It's one of those references only Japanese people would get so here's what it's based on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv8NEA6-gRY It's the ending theme of an old children's television series.
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Aug 6, 2013 07:30
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The progression of photos being taken at the booth was just saddening. And right after that, the face she made when she ruined her brother's tea was the best. "That's right, the Queen of the Underworld is fixing up your drink! Aren't you amazed  ?"
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Aug 6, 2013 08:03
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Zettace posted:The ending theme was amazing. It's one of those references only Japanese people would get so here's what it's based on: This outro is paid homage to in DBZ too, with Gohan doing the walk. This episode was a treasure trove of reaction faces. I love Silver Link having Tomoko go Cubist to show maximum awkwardness.
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Aug 6, 2013 18:40
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This has quickly become my favorite series at the moment I love the main character she's hilarious but at the same time I really feel sorry for her. I'm hoping that she ends up gaining enough social abilities to talk to people. I found episode 5 hilarious I was laughing throughout most of it I love her reaction to entering the red light district, I also found the coffee bit hilarious I've actually spilt a fuckton of crap in my own coffee in starbucks myself so I feel her pain haha
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Aug 6, 2013 19:39
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Super funny again, no really awkward parts this week, but I think most people can identify with being self-conscious of your behavior when you're just wasting time alone in some kind of public place. Those tall chairs at coffee shops are so annoying.
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Aug 6, 2013 20:03
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Seriously, those loving tall chairs. Does anyone actually enjoy sitting in them?
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Aug 6, 2013 20:32
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Well, I wasn't expecting this.
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Aug 6, 2013 21:44
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ViggyNash posted:Well, I wasn't expecting this.  Is that Lucy from Servant X Service?Will we see Tomoko in one of Megumi's manga books?
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Aug 6, 2013 21:47
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Alpha Kenny Juan posted:
Yep, Lucy and the shift manager. Also, THAT ED. ITS... I don't know. Weird or amazing, or both. I don't really get why they parodied the ending of an old children's show, as Zettace pointed out.
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Aug 6, 2013 22:03
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ViggyNash posted:Yep, Lucy and the shift manager. It evokes nostalgia of youth, much like the rest of the show for a large part of the audience.(    )
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Aug 6, 2013 22:29
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:It evokes nostalgia of youth, much like the rest of the show for a large part of the audience.( Oh, didn't think of it like that. It makes a lot more sense explained that way.
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Aug 6, 2013 22:42
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The ED reminded me of a Touhou parody with the same song. I hope the comedic quality doesn't drop off after 5 or 6 episodes, it's easily one my favorite anime this season. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxfh5jOHv8A
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Aug 6, 2013 22:56
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Fred Dawes posted:The ED reminded me of a Touhou parody with the same song. I hope the comedic quality doesn't drop off after 5 or 6 episodes, it's easily one my favorite anime this season. Oh no, there's at least one more utterly amazing episode still yet to be produced. The episode where Tomoko's younger cousin comes to visit.
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Aug 6, 2013 23:19
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