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uPen posted:Don't deviate for hunting luxuries, they're not worth going for. Marble you definitely want to get if you have it available though. The goal of the build is to get to universities ASAP while getting a million social policies, deviate to construction if you need bowmen and masonry if you have marble but otherwise just push down the top of the tree. Losing 10% Science and Production and 75% growth for a dozen turns isn't the end of the world in a strategy designed for rapid expansion and technological development?
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Aug 3, 2013 09:27
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Anyone else wish Rome had more dickish personality factors? In the past threads at least, we don't hear too much fun stories about Augustus. It's always Alexander. I really want to see Rome expand by both war and settlers in the classical era; and be dickish enough about it to possibly force most of its neighbors to try to wipe it out. I want to see Rome do more backstabbing and be interesting enough of a factor that its archaeological legacy lives on in antiquity sites even it gets wiped out early on. I know the game isn't supposed to simulate history, but I feel like if Rome's in a random game, it should have variables that permit it to grow into a bigass power, not some marginal and ignorable European state in its own niche of the world which it usually ends up being in my games at least.
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Aug 3, 2013 09:28
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Swap Caesar and Bismarck's personalities and you've got it! I seriously have never seen a game involving Germany in which Bismarck didn't take an early lead and push it toward a strong late-game. He has a really strong priority for science and production that seems to put him ahead in both war and peace. Wouldn't you know it, watching MadDjinn's current Poland playthrough and Bismarck is dominating. Also, I've never seen anything quite like this:  By turn 115 Kamehameha had 11 cities (several are off camera to the right, you can see one poking out of the fog of war). Didn't even have a Liberty start or anything. I've seen some ICS before but that was ridiculous and very stupid.
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Aug 3, 2013 09:58
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Echo Chamber posted:I know the game isn't supposed to simulate history, but I feel like if Rome's in a random game, it should have variables that permit it to grow into a bigass power, not some marginal and ignorable European state in its own niche of the world which it usually ends up being in my games at least. It does. In my opinion Rome's UU's probably make it the best classical-era military power around. Ballistae are basicaly early trebuchet, and Legions are strong enough to sweep any enemy swordsmen and even face down pikemen when they show up. Try playing as Rome some time; mopping up your neighbours is absolutely trivial once you get those units, and the unique ability gives a nice boost to your empire's infrastructure. They, along with Greece, are one of the civilizations I hardly play as just because they are so great.  These are Korea's first (non-capital) cities in this game. Note the minimap. That's his capital waaaay over there. Far enough that the only reason it's on the map is because of an embassy agreement, and this is a large map. I have no idea why he decided to send his settlers so far away, not to mention wedge them right between Russia and the Zulu. TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 11:17
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TheGame posted:Swap Caesar and Bismarck's personalities and you've got it! The biggest issue for me on Deity is the runaway civs that get bonuses. Hiawatha if he's in all forests, Attila, those sort of things. In my current Poland game Attila has some ungodly early production, I'm in second and he's basically double me, which means he got some crazy early pastures. I've similarly seen Hiawatha hit 10+ wonders before the Renaissance. Bismarck gets some free early units but he's basically just a worse version of Shaka. Speaking of, I had to super early DoW Kamehameha because he was trying to sneak a settler past me to a huge area I settled around to give myself some breathing room to expand into. As long as you go back to early peace and send a trade route their way this isn't even usually a problem, we're actually in a DoF now. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 12:11
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thehumandignity posted:It does. In my opinion Rome's UU's probably make it the best classical-era military power around. Ballistae are basicaly early trebuchet, and Legions are strong enough to sweep any enemy swordsmen and even face down pikemen when they show up. Try playing as Rome some time; mopping up your neighbours is absolutely trivial once you get those units, and the unique ability gives a nice boost to your empire's infrastructure. They, along with Greece, are one of the civilizations I hardly play as just because they are so great. I think Echo chamber is referring to the Rome AI's personality variables, not their UUs. I agree with him, I very very rarely actually see Rome become anything but a middling power when really Rome should be pretty drat expansionistic and aggressive.
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Aug 3, 2013 12:16
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Echo Chamber posted:
Rome has the best early UUs in the game. They may not have any fancy abilities (How many times have you actually built a road with a Legion?) but they DO have ridiculous amounts of power. In the early game when cities and units have low health and power, Rome can smack things HARD. Also, Rome's AI is very expansionist and will not hesitate to conquer to expand if need be. He's just not as much of a straight-up rear end in a top hat as Alex (no one is) and you actually have a chance of being friends with him if relations are good. My pet peeve Civs to face are Shoshone and Japan. Warring with both of them pretty much turns into a slog (though Pocatello is pretty chillax, I've never had him actually DoW me) Japan on the other hand is just a pain in the rear end to fight since Bushido ensures even on "equal" footing his units are always stronger. Add that to the fact he usually builds a massive army with upgrades and I just can't stand him. Also he's a backstabbing jerk who will DoW you no matter how friendly he is.
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Aug 3, 2013 12:22
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Kooriken posted:My pet peeve Civs to face are Shoshone and Japan. Warring with both of them pretty much turns into a slog (though Pocatello is pretty chillax, I've never had him actually DoW me) Japan on the other hand is just a pain in the rear end to fight since Bushido ensures even on "equal" footing his units are always stronger. Add that to the fact he usually builds a massive army with upgrades and I just can't stand him. Also he's a backstabbing jerk who will DoW you no matter how friendly he is. Anecdotally, not having looked at the chart on the other page, I think France and Japan are the two civs I see backstab constantly. Yes it was rude of you to pretend to be friends, good thing I didn't believe you. Montezuma would be close but I just refuse to make a DoF with him because he is always denounced and I don't want to ruin my reputation. Also Monty, and now Shaka, are basically just tools to slow down other civs. I'm constantly bribing them to declare on whomever just to keep them and that other civ busy. You run the slight risk of creating a supershaka, but he doesn't scare me in the modern era. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 12:29
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Marketing New Brain posted:...I'm constantly bribing them to declare on whomever... How much gold,luxuries etc... does it take to do this?
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Aug 3, 2013 12:36
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Khagan posted:How much gold,luxuries etc... does it take to do this? Depends on who they are declaring on, size of military, proximity, etc. Usually I can get those two to declare in the early game for any luxury and sometimes as little as 2-3 gpt and an embassy. E: in my current Venice game, I got Shaka to Dow France after he went hostile on me for 6 gold and open borders. Not gpt, 6 gold, actual pocket change. ee: Generally on Deity (and Immortal and probably Emperor) early wars are pretty bad for you if you aren't going all out and conquering territory. I generally build 4/5 archers to bust huts, and after that I'm hoping I can delay building a real military for as long as possible, so I get trade routes up and start building infrastructure while making sure me enemies nearby are engaged in wars, or are in a DoF with me, or both. Every archer I produce delays my monument/granary/library from a city, or slows down my NC push. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Someone actually did a bunch of games and yeah it is just the human brain being bad at identifying truly random, other than obviously you never meet the Civ you are playing as. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 12:39
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Maybe this has been discussed before, but do you happen to encounter the almost same Civs every single time? For example, England, Korea and Egypt are almost always in my games, but I think I've never, ever played against the USA or France. Actually I have only played 15-20 games or so, but just wondering. Before the expansions, Hiawatha showed up EVERY single time.
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Aug 3, 2013 12:44
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Cable posted:Maybe this has been discussed before, but do you happen to encounter the almost same Civs every single time? For example, England, Korea and Egypt are almost always in my games, but I think I've never, ever played against the USA or France. Yes, this is very common, but it is to be expected when you select a fair significant number of people from a relatively small pool. You will expect to see occasional runs of certain leaders showing up. Confirmation bias will also be a factor. We once tested it the hard way by generating a large number of games and listing all the civs that came up and it turned out to be statistically random.
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Aug 3, 2013 12:49
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Hy, does anyone else have the bug, where it's still playing GK title music instead of BNWs? I have BNW installed on 2 PCs, on one there's the BNW title music, but on my first computer it insists on playing GKs title music. 
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Aug 3, 2013 13:04
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I don't have any unhappiness, why the gently caress do barbarians keep spawning in my territory? Every once in awhile a barbarian unit will appear right next to my capital. Most of the time I kill him the next turn and nothing comes of it but occasionally a barbarian trireme will spawn in my waters, right next to my capital, instantly cutting off one of my trade routes.
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Aug 3, 2013 13:08
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That's the game telling you to have fog-busters to protect your trade routes. I've never had problems with barbarians after I started implementing sentries.
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Aug 3, 2013 13:09
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Ulvirich posted:That's the game telling you to have fog-busters to protect your trade routes. I've never had problems with barbarians after I started implementing sentries. No, the problem is barbarians are spawning inside my territory. I have triremes on alert every few tiles along my water trade route, but barbarian galleys are spawning directly adjacent to my capital.
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Aug 3, 2013 13:14
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thehumandignity posted:I don't have any unhappiness, why the gently caress do barbarians keep spawning in my territory? Every once in awhile a barbarian unit will appear right next to my capital. Most of the time I kill him the next turn and nothing comes of it but occasionally a barbarian trireme will spawn in my waters, right next to my capital, instantly cutting off one of my trade routes. It's usually a camp that's one tile outside your vision that spawns a barbarian on the side that's touching your territory, and then the barb can move 2-4 tiles further in. Get more vision
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Aug 3, 2013 13:15
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Verviticus posted:Get more vision That's not possible for me to do. I have my entire continent explored. And to my knowledge barbarian units always spawn in or near encampments, not 12-15 tiles away, right next to one of your cities.
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Aug 3, 2013 13:17
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Barbarian camps have some weird spawning mechanics when it comes to boats. Any water-adjacent camp can spawn boats, even if it's next to a single tile lake. If that single-tile lake already has a unit in it, the boat will spawn in the closest available water tile - which might be within 4-6 tiles of your capital. It then moves next to your capital on your turn.
Frida Call Me fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 13:44
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TheGame posted:Right. Social policy bonuses (Poland), building bonuses and unit bonuses (Aztec) add to your culture defense but never to your tourism. Brazilwood camps/tile improvements and wonders do add to your tourism via hotels and airports, so there are a few very clear cultural civs. Huh, so I guess I'm better off trying to get my first France win ever with a military strategy that just happens to fill up Liberty, Honor and Commerce really, really fast. Thanks!
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Aug 3, 2013 14:39
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Is going Liberty still worth it if you've disable cultural victories? And what about Great Artists- do they still have a use then, or should I burn them for Golden Ages?
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Aug 3, 2013 14:55
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Verviticus posted:If you actually get a DoF with shaka you're set. Just being neutral doesn't count as friends. I got a declaration of friendship with him! 5 turns after, the turn after I made a defensive pact with him, he just declares war again. He is unstoppable! I am ahead in science though, so I am waiting for nukes.
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Aug 3, 2013 14:57
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CommissarMega posted:Is going Liberty still worth it if you've disable cultural victories? And what about Great Artists- do they still have a use then, or should I burn them for Golden Ages? Speeding up settlers, workers, a golden age, faster policies and a great person of your choice at the end of the tree is really, really good. If you don't care about tourism, just burn the artist for golden ages.
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Aug 3, 2013 14:59
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CommissarMega posted:Is going Liberty still worth it if you've disable cultural victories? And what about Great Artists- do they still have a use then, or should I burn them for Golden Ages? I only really like liberty anymore as Shoshone - the extra territory you grab lets you get luxuries up and running quicker. This lets you expand quicker, going up to 6 or 7 before turn 130 on standard.
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Aug 3, 2013 14:59
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CommissarMega posted:And what about Great Artists- do they still have a use then, or should I burn them for Golden Ages?
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Aug 3, 2013 15:32
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Maxmaps posted:Huh, so I guess I'm better off trying to get my first France win ever with a military strategy that just happens to fill up Liberty, Honor and Commerce really, really fast. Thanks! France is actually one of the "designed for culture victory" Civs along with Brazil - (assuming you're plaing BNW of course, though they're pretty good for culture victory before the change as well) You want to build as many culture wonders as you can in the capital for the bonus, and Hotels/Airports make Chateaus generate crazy tourism
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Aug 3, 2013 16:22
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TheGame posted:Brazilwood camps/tile improvements and wonders do add to your tourism via hotels and airports... Really, do they? This has come up in the thread before and I thought Hotels/Airports boosted Moai/Chateau/Landmarks, but not Brazilwood Camps.
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Aug 3, 2013 16:43
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Maxmaps posted:Huh, so I guess I'm better off trying to get my first France win ever with a military strategy that just happens to fill up Liberty, Honor and Commerce really, really fast. Thanks! France is definitely one of the best civs for cultural wins, I'd say second probably right behind Brazil. Their tile improvement counts towards hotels/airports/visitor center and their UA doubles the tourism (and culture) from great works.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:09
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Thal got Mediterranean-style seas working on his new map script: Pretty pumped for it to be finished. I think I'll be using this map script even if I don't play with CivUP/CEP. 
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Aug 3, 2013 17:15
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Hmm. I hadn't realized it until I read about it from another source, but King Sejong of Korea had a really bad track record with women. He was the initial force behind the incredibly patriarchal Choson society, and instituted rules like "100 lashes for any woman who attends a festival" and "100 blows from a cudgel for any identified lesbian". Apparently, the Crown Princess was caught having sex with one of the palace girls; the king had the princess stripped of her royal title, and the lover was executed. He also thought it was better for women to starve to death than to remarry. I'm not saying they had to put that in the Civ Intro, but maybe a mention in the Civilopedia would have been good? Their review of him is ridiculously gushing.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:16
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Vengarr posted:I'm not saying they had to put that in the Civ Intro, but maybe a mention in the Civilopedia would have been good? Their review of him is ridiculously gushing. A lot of the character synopsis you get when choosing a leader either ignore unpleasant realities or are pretty exaggerated. I mean when ignore the illustrious language and read what Portugal's intro actually says, it basically boils down to "You bravely fled your country to offer token resistance to Napoleon on a different continent. Also you were really nice or something!" And yeah, they tend to sugarcoat or ignore the negative actions or aspects of the leaders. You can't really blame them because you don't exactly want to tell the player "you're playing a bloodthirsty tyrant who butchered civilians!" or "you're playing a horrible racist/sexist who despised brown people/women!". The omissions are just kind of amusing for those of us who know their history. Although I think you're right when you say they could a put a little more about them in the civalopedia, even if it's not the full story with all the gritty details.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:27
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Vengarr posted:I'm not saying they had to put that in the Civ Intro, but maybe a mention in the Civilopedia would have been good? Their review of him is ridiculously gushing. All of the Civilopedia descriptions are noncritical biopics. There isn't a single leader that doesn't have controversial historical elements - even Gandhi had his issues with women's rights and class equality. Frankly I think that it's better to cast each character as heroic rather than to attempt a truly nuanced portrayal.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:32
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Smart Car posted:Great works generate just as much culture as they generate tourism, so they can add up to a pretty significant amount of extra culture over time. I'm not nearly good enough at Civ to know if the extra culture is better than a golden age though. Golden Ages give you a flat 20 percent culture bonus, empire wide, so no, it is never better to create a great work solely for culture, assuming you would do something silly like disable cultural victory. If I were going to disable anything right now, it would certainly be diplomatic.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:32
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My favourite Civ sugarcoating is describing Germany's history as "enduring great catastrophe in the first half of the twentieth century". That is probably the most diplomatic way possible to put that without being a holocaust denier.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:41
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thehumandignity posted:My favourite Civ sugarcoating is describing Germany's history as "enduring great catastrophe in the first half of the twentieth century". That is probably the most diplomatic way possible to put that without being a holocaust denier. I'm pretty sure that refers to the Versailles treaty and the breakdown of Germany post WWI, not their actions during WWII. Vengarr posted:Hmm. I hadn't realized it until I read about it from another source, but King Sejong of Korea had a really bad track record with women. He was the initial force behind the incredibly patriarchal Choson society, and instituted rules like "100 lashes for any woman who attends a festival" and "100 blows from a cudgel for any identified lesbian". Apparently, the Crown Princess was caught having sex with one of the palace girls; the king had the princess stripped of her royal title, and the lover was executed. He also thought it was better for women to starve to death than to remarry. Almost all of the leaders in Civ would be controversial by our standards today, I'm happy they include people if just to get them exposure to a wider audience, especially when they aren't European. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 17:47
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Vengarr posted:Hmm. I hadn't realized it until I read about it from another source, but King Sejong of Korea had a really bad track record with women. He was the initial force behind the incredibly patriarchal Choson society, and instituted rules like "100 lashes for any woman who attends a festival" and "100 blows from a cudgel for any identified lesbian". Apparently, the Crown Princess was caught having sex with one of the palace girls; the king had the princess stripped of her royal title, and the lover was executed. He also thought it was better for women to starve to death than to remarry. That's really depressing. I always thought that the dude was the bee's knees. 
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Aug 3, 2013 17:51
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Marketing New Brain posted:I'm pretty sure that refers to the Versailles treaty and the breakdown of Germany post WWI, not their actions during WWII. Pretty much. World War II only happened because Germany got so utterly and traitorously hosed at Versailles.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:52
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Beamed posted:That's really depressing. I always thought that the dude was the bee's knees. I know the feeling. That's why I was so surprised. Most leaders are somewhat controversial, but the solution shouldn't be to completely gloss over it. I'd be happy if they left the intros as the positive "rah-rah" boosters that they are, and give a more nuanced portrait in the Civilopedia. I mean, Oda Nobunaga was at best ruthlessly ambitious, and at worst a total psychopath. That probably warrants a mention somewhere.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:01
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*gasp* You mean someone from the 15th century acted like he lived in the 15th century?  Anyway, derail imminent.I recently did the juiciest savescum as Spain. I dialed back to an autosave from 15 turns ago to make sure I could settle near Mt. Kailash, which was just a few tiles away from Assur. The impending siege of Cordoba will be grand; looks like Ashurbanipal even got Washington in in the action.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:03
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My first ever spain game...and King Solomons mines are right next to my start in a little flood plains river valley, with 3 luxuries within a possible city spot.  Also, I love how Maria's civ entry totally glosses over how loving INSANE she was. A Tartan Tory fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 18:04
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