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Raneman posted:I think the main problem with the Wii U, is that, outside of first party Nintendo titles, I can play amazing games such as... uhhhh... Zombieu or whatever? There's a zombie game for it. I think. I don't actually know about any other games that are on the Wii U. It's been a year with a complete desert of games, and all of the games I do want to be play available on other platforms, or the PC. Monster hunter? Lego City undercover?
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Aug 3, 2013 17:33
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I think the lack of third party titles is due to the fact that the specs are straight out of 2003 and the controller is a dumb gimmick. You can't port games to it. How does Nintendo expect me to want to buy a console that has no games? ^^^^ An entire 2 games. Lego is kiddie poo poo, never liked Monster Hunter. Ooops, looks like we've run through the entire library.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:34
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Raneman posted:I think the lack of third party titles is due to the fact that the specs are straight out of 2003 and the controller is a dumb gimmick. You can't port games to it. How does Nintendo expect me to want to buy a console that has no games? Well I could run through some more third party games, but I'm pretty sure you'd just say 'I could buy them on other platforms' And Lego City undercover is not kiddie poo poo 
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Aug 3, 2013 17:36
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Considering how much Brawl and Melee sold despite Brawl having lovely online and Melee having none, I don't really think that Smash U's focus on local multiplayer will be much of a hindrance. The 3DS version could outsell it due to differences in install base, but I don't think it will be because of differences in online functionality. Also the idea that most people whose Wii U purchase hinges on Mario Kart already bought a Wii U is silly. Not everyone has so much disposable income that they'll become early adopters for something they won't have a use for for a year. Not saying Mario Kart will save the Wii U, but to say that it won't sell consoles is pretty absurd. If Pikmin 3, a game announced as a launch title, can triple Wii U sales for the month it was released, what effect do you think Mario Kart U will have?
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Aug 3, 2013 17:37
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Raneman posted:I think the lack of third party titles is due to the fact that the specs are straight out of 2003 and the controller is a dumb gimmick. You can't port games to it. How does Nintendo expect me to want to buy a console that has no games? The lack of third party titles is entirely due to the sales. It's substantially stronger than the 360 if utilized correctly. I mean just look at Pikmin 3 gameplay or MK8 gameplay, things are running at 60FPS in true 1080p. It's going to be outclassed by the xbone and PS4 by miles for sure, but the PS2 was very behind the Xbox in terms of specs. In the end, it all comes down to games and sales. The WiiU has neither. Not exactly attractive to third parties.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:39
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Srice posted:Nintendo's investor relations section of their website has the sales info for first party titles.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:51
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Bobnumerotres posted:What do you mean? Some third parties opting for no online due to sales? That has nothing to do with what Nintendo will do with Smash. More like Nintendo themselves. I don't think any of their games, or the ones scheduled for release this year have any online component apart from Miiverse.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:53
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They'd better push Super Mario 3D World hard. If anything's gonna move systems, that's it.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:59
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greatn posted:More like Nintendo themselves. I don't think any of their games, or the ones scheduled for release this year have any online component apart from Miiverse. That's just Nintendo being religious with their SP-focused games like Pikmin and Mario. But MK8 has confirmed online and they've already spoken about online play with Smash. Also Namco is working on Smash so I doubt it'll be brawl-terrible.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:00
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Louisgod posted:The only way is for Nintendo to supplement or subsidize 3rd party projects ala Platinum or buy up companies like Atlus and build up in-house IPs and pump out software. Again, they can afford it, they have a metric fuckton of money they need to spend.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:12
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Atlus especially would make sense. Look at the frothing demand for stuff like Xenoblade not just for being a great game but from Nintendo fans because Nintendo has published it. Atlus is one of the last Japanese publishers that's consistently successful with special editions and having a dedicated, built in audience both in Japan and the US (sorry UK, enjoy your Devil Survivor Overclocked posters  ). To the point where something like even Soul Hackers, a PS1/Saturn RPG from 1997 can get a basic port to the 3DS and do pretty well. They need to swallow up these smaller RPG makers and drop small reprints of stuff with a cd or whatever. Even in Japan it would move systems if there was say a compilation of Persona games on it or something, anything.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:19
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OatmealRaisin posted:If WiiU's current course is any indication the 3DS version will have better online multiplayer and I haven't played a local multiplayer game in almost half a decade. No online infastructure, no online support from Nintendo, no unified account structure. This system is a loving dinosaur.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:20
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Bobnumerotres posted:The lack of third party titles is entirely due to the sales. It's substantially stronger than the 360 if utilized correctly. I mean just look at Pikmin 3 gameplay or MK8 gameplay, things are running at 60FPS in true 1080p. It's going to be outclassed by the xbone and PS4 by miles for sure, but the PS2 was very behind the Xbox in terms of specs. Pikmin 3's not being rendered at 1080p, and it's very unlikely that Mario Kart 8 will either. There is a generational gap between the Wii U and the PS4/Xbox One. It may be powerful compared to the PS3 and 360 (although it's not terribly noticeable in any third-party games), but it's not the same as the PS2 compared to the Xbox. It's either the N64 compared to the Dreamcast/PS2/Gamecube/Xbox gen, or the Xbox compared to the 360/PS3/Wii U gen. To get the full power of the console, Nintendo will need years of practice developing HD games. It won't get something as impressive as Uncharted 2 or God of War III unless someone equally skilled produces an exclusive game for it, or Nintendo trains their artists and programmers.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:24
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waffle posted:Yeah, now that you mention it, I do think this is Nintendo's best path to relevance, and good for gamers as a whole. I'd much rather see the dev studios I like get bought out by Nintendo than EA/Ubi/etc. Atlus is a particularly good example because they could probably be acquired on the cheap, what with their parent company going bankrupt and all. Too bad Nintendo doesn't seem willing to spend their big piles of money. That and Atlus is pretty friendly toward Nintendo already so it's a bit of a no brainer. They just need to pull a Microsoft and invest a ton of money in the short term and make it up later. Still though, RPGs and the like tend to be niche titles and don't build the userbase as quickly and as much as they need. They really, really missed the boat by not releasing Wii Sports U on day one.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:25
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RPGs are niche in general, but I feel like pushing the genre is Nintendo's last chance at getting people in their late twenties who buy every Zelda/Final Fantasy/whatever every time over and over again to pick up a Wii U. At this point I don't know what they could do to make the Wii U even worse off so they may as well.Quest For Glory II posted:Even Nintendo hates online multiplayer on Wii U. None of their games have it currently, and neither does Pikmin, releasing on Sunday. So no third-party company wants to bother either. Even a Wii U exclusive third party game, that Sonic Lost Worlds game, has online multiplayer on 3DS but not Wii U. This is so bizarre as for years Nintendo was pretty good at predicting what the market and developers would want. Not just with the Wii but with stuff like the controllers for the SNES, the Game Boy being cheap and simple, etc. You got some major flubs like cartridges with the N64 but I'm pretty shocked about the bad online support. I didn't care with the Gamecube because hey, the system has some incredible single player games on it and a lot of good multiplayer stuff. They took the Wii in a totally different direction which is fine, but again, this system is supposed to be an equivalent to the PS3 and 360 and it's not even there. I don't know if they were planning to re-release a new version like with the DS every few years that's exponentially better or if they were too cheap or impatient to launch this holiday instead of last year or whatever, but I just don't get it. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 18:25
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Louisgod posted:The only way is for Nintendo to supplement or subsidize 3rd party projects ala Platinum or buy up companies like Atlus and build up in-house IPs and pump out software. Again, they can afford it, they have a metric fuckton of money they need to spend. I'd rather they subsidised games than just bought the developers out entirely. I think the fans of Platinum and Atlus are hardcore enough that they'd buy any platform with an exclusive game on it (I know I did for Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101), but I don't want those developers to lose the freedom to make games for other platforms. I don't want Metal Gear Rising 2 to be either Wii U exclusive, or given to a different developer so it could still be multiplatform.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:34
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Atlus kind of has a franchise split between Sony (for Persona) and Nintendo (for general SMT) so I'd be sad if they got bought outright by Nintendo. It would make sense for Nintendo to try to leverage it but honestly I probably am one of those people who would only buy a WiiU if they locked up SMT exclusivity. On the other hand Atlus has gone fairly portable heavy due to dev costs so it might not change all that much with their major releases already being handheld focused at present.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:51
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Neo Rasa posted:
Nintendo had many major flubs and really never did all that well at predicting stuff. The Sony Playstation wouldn't have existed if they didn't axe the SNES CD system at the last minute. It was more than just having the N64 be a cart based system they directly caused the creation of their biggest rival company. And this isn't even factoring in all the stuff that went on before they were a videogame company, there's dozens of side businesses the company tried in it's 125 year history that just didn't pan out at all. Tortolia posted:Atlus kind of has a franchise split between Sony (for Persona) and Nintendo (for general SMT) so I'd be sad if they got bought outright by Nintendo. It would make sense for Nintendo to try to leverage it but honestly I probably am one of those people who would only buy a WiiU if they locked up SMT exclusivity. Atlus released Demon Souls which was a pretty big title. They also put out many of the first NIS titles before NISA was established. Their split isn't really so much between persona on Sony and SMT on Nintendo Systems though. There were mainline SMT games re-released on the playstations, it's just they never came to America. Same with the PSP getting games that were on the DS. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 18:52
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Tortolia posted:Atlus kind of has a franchise split between Sony (for Persona) and Nintendo (for general SMT) so I'd be sad if they got bought outright by Nintendo. It would make sense for Nintendo to try to leverage it but honestly I probably am one of those people who would only buy a WiiU if they locked up SMT exclusivity. It's looking like the major company interested in buying Atlus is Sega Sammy, which is both Nintendo friendly and every platform friendly. They are still making PSP games for gently caress sakes.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:02
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's looking like the major company interested in buying Atlus is Sega Sammy, which is both Nintendo friendly and every platform friendly. They are still making PSP games for gently caress sakes. But if Sega did buy Atlus they would probably not have any large number of exclusive RPGs to begin with. They've been releasing all their big games on steam and multiplatform consoles, and RPGs are not the cheapest games to make. You might just have some stuff like licensed cross overs, but for the majority most of it would wind up turning up on Steam to recoup costs. Their asking price was also really low, like I'm really surprised that none of the big console companies wouldn't have jumped on it, because the cost is way less than the cost of producing a game.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:09
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Louisgod posted:They really, really missed the boat by not releasing Wii Sports U on day one. So true. Maybe Nintendo could drop the tablet and just rebrand the U as the Wii 2/ HD. Kind of like if the DS had failed, they would have just gone back to the Gameboy. Yay! Even more consumer confusion!
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Aug 3, 2013 19:09
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I would be just fine with SMT on PC. The MMO does not count.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:14
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I really don't think there is any need to drop the tablet. I actually love it, and honestly demoing it in stores I didn't expect that to be the case at all. Should they rebrand it? Yeah, they should. The Wii U is an awful, awful name.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:19
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WendigoJohnson posted:But if Sega did buy Atlus they would probably not have any large number of exclusive RPGs to begin with. They've been releasing all their big games on steam and multiplatform consoles, and RPGs are not the cheapest games to make. You might just have some stuff like licensed cross overs, but for the majority most of it would wind up turning up on Steam to recoup costs. I actually think the majority of RPGs that Atlus makes are low cost to make. I mean relative to say a Square Enix RPG. Like I don't think Radiant Historia cost the same to make as say Chaos Rings. Also, if Sega Sammy purchased Atlus and were worried on the cost of some stuff I'm sure they could prod Nintendo to buy exclusive rights to Persona or something.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:24
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I actually think the majority of RPGs that Atlus makes are low cost to make. I mean relative to say a Square Enix RPG. Like I don't think Radiant Historia cost the same to make as say Chaos Rings. Atlus RPGs aren't cheap to make, even when it comes to handheld games. The Wii-U does not have the install base of the DS and right off the bat they'll be taking an already higher risk of it being exclusive. Just because something may look like it has low poly models doesn't mean it's cheap. There's so many other aspects like building the battle system and other RPG systems that are very time intensive. Sega Sammy can't just prod Nintendo when they need money. Development doesn't really work like that unless it's determined beforehand that it's an exclusive deal. If they start building a game and wind up in financial trouble there's far more serious and plaguing issues at hand rather than just gross underestimation. Also Atlus in Japan and Atlus US are two entirely different entities. If Sega buys the Atlus IP(which is what is up for sale) that means Atlus US will not be able to localize it for western markets. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 19:29
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I'd really prefer it if Sega didn't buy out Atlus since I have no faith in their ability to market non-Sonic games. This has especially hurt Platinum Games when Sega was publishing for them, who had only one successful title in Bayonetta while everything else sold horribly. Nintendo buying Atlus could help them a lot, especially since they're making SMT x FE with them.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:37
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I don't think it would benefit Nintendo at all, Atlus is niche and is only bought by a very specific sub-set of people, nothing earth shattering either even if you combined both Persona and main SMT fans. And less we forget how Nintendo merely mentioned at the tail of end of their E3's that they where releasing Fire Emblem here, followed by a botched launch with a very small amount of copies.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:48
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Alteisen posted:And less we forget how Nintendo merely mentioned at the tail of end of their E3's that they where releasing Fire Emblem here, followed by a botched launch with a very small amount of copies. I agree the release was a disaster, but I wouldnt say "botched" since I have no doubts that Nintendo did it on purpose to encourage digital downloads. Ya know, instead of providing extra benefits or lower price or something...
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Aug 3, 2013 19:52
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Alteisen posted:I don't think it would benefit Nintendo at all, Atlus is niche and is only bought by a very specific sub-set of people, nothing earth shattering either even if you combined both Persona and main SMT fans. Most Nintendo console games that are not Mario or Zelda are only bought by a specific sub-set of people(i.e. Pikmin). It really can't hurt them to get Atlus, I mean they have no support outside of 2 other companies, and they certainly aren't releasing games anytime soon. Better the Wii-U be seen as the weird rear end Japanese system than a barren wasteland of gamecube-esque shattered dreams.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:56
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Syfe posted:Should they rebrand it? Yeah, they should. The Wii U is an awful, awful name. I have to wonder if they're contemplating this. Consumer awareness is currently near zero (or worse, they think it's an accessory), so a price cut/rebrand/relaunch once 3D World/Smash/Kart/Zelda are out (maybe with one or two packed in) would make sense. Then again, not many of the decisions in the Wii U's life have made sense, so I'm not holding my breath on that one. Alternately, they could launch a new SKU at a lower price with the Pro controller packed in, and make the tablet an optional accessory. 
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Aug 3, 2013 19:57
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I wonder what Nintendo's reasoning is for pushing back first party stuff all of the time is. I appreciate that they don't want to completely run their franchises into the ground, but they have a failing system and you'd think they would be trying to take advantage of all the huge IP's they own.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:01
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NESguerilla posted:I wonder what Nintendo's reasoning is for pushing back first party stuff all of the time is. I appreciate that they don't want to completely run their franchises into the ground, but they have a failing system and you'd think they would be trying to take advantage of all the huge IP's they own. I presume because rushing out a lovely half-baked Smash Brothers/Zelda/Mario Kart game would do more to hurt them then it would to help them.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:07
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NESguerilla posted:I wonder what Nintendo's reasoning is for pushing back first party stuff all of the time is. I appreciate that they don't want to completely run their franchises into the ground, but they have a failing system and you'd think they would be trying to take advantage of all the huge IP's they own. Even then, they're dropping a ton of big IPs this year, with Pikmin, Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country, and Zelda. They have the games coming, the system is capable enough, and Microsoft in particular has made so many bone-headed decisions that they could easily be a second system to PS4. It's just their failure to market the console has been so spectacular that apparently a lot of people still don't even know it's a new console. What they should be doing is getting ready for an advertizing blitz this coming fall, complete with price cut. Being conservative won't save them money if nobody knows they have a product to sell.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:15
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Yeah, the idea that these games are ready to go and they're just sitting on them is really bizarre. I imagine they'd kill to get away without delaying any more games right about now.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:16
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I don't think they are ready to go and they are just sitting on them, but you would think they would have used E3 to go apeshit and show a ton of games that will be coming in the future. Mario 3D land looks cool, but is Pikmin even a big seller? Zelda is just a remake of a Gamecube game...It seems like they could have done a lot more to get people excited. They have had over a year to figure this out.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:27
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They did show off trailers for some major 2014 titles- Mariokart, X, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros. But their policy has been to keep a lot of games under wraps until close to release, which is why we only just found out about Tropical Freeze and 3D World.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:31
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NESguerilla posted:but is Pikmin even a big seller? Pikmin sold a million. Pikmin 2 almost sold a million. The Pikmin re-release on Wii sold over 150,000 copies in Japan. It's less a big system seller and more a game that has a devoted fanbase. Having it on Wii U is a good thing but it's more just a start.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:34
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Chaltab posted:What ImpAtom said. Also they flat out said that they underestimated the requirements of HD development. Most companies have been making HD games for 8+ years. Is Donkey Kong a big IP?
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Aug 3, 2013 20:34
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boom boom boom posted:Is Donkey Kong a big IP? Donkey Kong the character is one of the most recognizable IPs they have. You can make arguments about Donkey Kong Country Returns itself being a 'big seller' but the character is basically one of the most iconic characters out there, to the point where even stuff like Wreck-It Ralph is a thinly-veiled homage to it. The only way they could leverage the Donkey Kong IP more would be to try to find some way to modernize the original. NESguerilla posted:I don't think they are ready to go and they are just sitting on them, but you would think they would have used E3 to go apeshit and show a ton of games that will be coming in the future. Mario 3D land looks cool, but is Pikmin even a big seller? Zelda is just a remake of a Gamecube game...It seems like they could have done a lot more to get people excited. They have had over a year to figure this out. They did show off a bunch of games at E3. The response was "Why are these coming out in 2014? Why even bother announcing them now?"
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Aug 3, 2013 20:37
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I just bought a used Wii U with NSMBU for 200 bucks. To me, that makes it okay knowing I'm going to get maybe 10 or 15 games for the thing across the generation. Nintendo hardware is never going to be anything more than a tax you pay to play Nintendo games and a small handful of niche titles. I'm firmly in the camp that would like to see Nintendo go third party on consoles and keep up the handheld business. They'll never do it, but New Super Mario Bros. U alone would have sold probably 10 times its amount if it didn't require a new console purchase.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:47
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