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Mazed posted:The first time I heard the Bresha Ruins music from XIII-2 was on the OST, so the whole time I was listening to this white girl rapping while she was trying not to fall asleep. It was one of those true "are they loving serious?" moments. The vocal version actually has better instrumentation than the instrumental version we got in the US. I actually feel bad about it because the singer, Aimee Blackschleger, is actually pretty good. They just kind of told her to "rap" but it's basically free verse poetry. Gaseous Snake posted:I agree with all of these and add a couple more. Also can't forget Invisible Depths, a loving brilliant final boss theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKmZ7Uw76qI Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 04:42
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Aug 4, 2013 04:43
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I guess I'm an idiot and misread. Evokers summon beasts with white or black magic effects, but I can't find a magic shop in the water town right after you beat the water temple. Dragoon sucks, and I find myself using the 2nd tier jobs more and more. Protons fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 05:47
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Evoker is probably the worst class in the game (you don't get to choose which effect you get for your summons), so you aren't missing much. The others are a bit more useful, but probably not enough that you would want to bring their job levels up when you've probably already got decently-leveled fire crystal jobs. My endgame party had a Knight, and I'm pretty sure a Ranger as well (though I may have switched them to Ninja). The final crystal's jobs are really solid, too, so you might as well just hold off for them. Grinding job levels in Evoker if you're going to switch to Summoner anyway would just be wasted effort.
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Aug 4, 2013 06:02
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Armor-Piercing posted:Evoker is probably the worst class in the game (you don't get to choose which effect you get for your summons), so you aren't missing much. The others are a bit more useful, but probably not enough that you would want to bring their job levels up when you've probably already got decently-leveled fire crystal jobs. Bard seems bad too. I guess I'll stick to my white mage black mage dark knight and monk. My monk is an absolute power house.
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Aug 4, 2013 06:29
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That version of FF3 is really not fun at all, the encounter rate is soooo high and the battles take forever.
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Aug 4, 2013 07:06
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Protons posted:Bard seems bad too. I guess I'll stick to my white mage black mage dark knight and monk. My monk is an absolute power house. Monks are awesome though. Since job level is tied to your number of attacks and unarmed damage, and you get Monk so early on, you don't even need to put any effort into making them so good. The Black Belt does have better stats overall, but would mean doing a lot of job level grinding to catch up. Edit: That's also part of why I kept a Knight in my party, too. His job level was quite a bit higher than everyone else's, which came in really handy.
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Aug 4, 2013 07:18
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alcharagia posted:That's undeniable proof that he totally owned you lamers. Of course he did, he's posting about Seifer, ya know?!
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Aug 4, 2013 08:08
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One of the artifacts in FF3DS from the original game is that some jobs are useless as soon as you get them, like Evoker and Bard, and won't be useful until you can get stuff for them. There's a town specifically for those two on an island somewhere, but you need your airship back to get them. And even then Evoker's a bit too random to be useful (though Bards are nice buff machines if you don't mind swapping harps every single turn). Still better than the original in that aspect, where quite a few jobs are useless for a long time (for example, you get Thief after the Fire Crystal, but you don't get any of the job's equipment until the town after the Water Crystal). As a tip, once you get the airship, don't fly over the giant-looking city until you're ready to advance the plot. Granted, I think the only other thing you can do with the airship is go to above-mentioned Evoker/Bard town. Just be prepared for a bit of bullshit there.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:43
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The story in FFXIII-2 makes so little sense it's actually frustrating to play. Why do they think it's ok to make this universe into a trilogy?
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Aug 4, 2013 16:57
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Yohan Kebab posted:The story in FFXIII-2 makes so little sense it's actually frustrating to play. Why do they think it's ok to make this universe into a trilogy? I still have no loving clue what a (Fal-ce)? is.
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Aug 4, 2013 17:13
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Austrian mook posted:I still have no loving clue what a (Fal-ce)? is. fal-cie = demi gods that rules over humanity. how could you really have played the game and not know this?
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Aug 4, 2013 17:17
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Cerulily posted:fal-cie = demi gods that rules over humanity. how could you really have played the game and not know this? No, I know what they are. I'm just so loving confused as to what in practice they do? Like, every time you find a fal-cie it looks different and seems to have different rules? E: I just don't know what they are and why they're doing anything. Or why anyone is doing anything and what and why and how and who and if and gently caress this game.
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Aug 4, 2013 17:21
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Austrian mook posted:No, I know what they are. I'm just so loving confused as to what in practice they do? Like, every time you find a fal-cie it looks different and seems to have different rules? Why does Neptune look different and do different things from Zeus? I don't mean to sound like a dick so if it comes across that way I apologize but it really isn't an overly complex concept. It's basically the idea of mythological gods who are responsible for (X) given a biomechanical makeover. It's not really Greek Mythology style and is kind of closer to Shinto-style stuff but the underlying concept is similar. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 17:24
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^^No they're not. Those gods are at least given personalities. They Have likes and dislikes. They argue and fight with humans and other gods. The lust after things like women and booze and power. Old gods (ESPECIALLY Greco-Roman ones) are very very human in action and personality. There's nothing close to that with the Fal-Cie.Austrian mook posted:No, I know what they are. I'm just so loving confused as to what in practice they do? Like, every time you find a fal-cie it looks different and seems to have different rules? Yeah I'm with this guy. I mean, Is Anima just the heart and Arms or is he the whole building? What the gently caress does orphan even do? Is Carbuncle just a big floaty light? Does he move? Does he talk? What the gently caress is Atomos? Is he literally just a drill ball? Can he unfold? Does he have a face? The only Falcie that come close to make sense as a living being are Bart and Titan. The rest just look like terrible post-modern sculptures and I can't even begin to imagine how they live or what they do besides make poo poo for humans. Most of the Cocoon Fal-cie we see act like simple machines and All the Pulse Fal-cie we meet are basically just big animals. None of the details about them as creatures are explained to us and they come off as more like tools than living beings, let alone Gods. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 17:29
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:^^No they're not. Those gods are at least given personalities. They Have likes and dislikes. They argue and fight with humans and other gods. The lust after things like women and booze and power. Old gods (ESPECIALLY Greco-Roman ones) are very very human in action and personality. There's nothing close to that with the Fal-Cie. This is only true if you focus on the main pantheon. It gets stranger as you get further out and there are several pretty fuckin' weird demigods. Add on to this that, as I said, this is more Japanese-style mythology than Western-style mythology. I mean I don't think FFXIII has a particularly interesting mythology but the Fal'cie stuff is really straightforward. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Most of the Cocoon Fal-cie we see act like simple machines and All the Pulse Fal-cie we meet are basically just big animals. None of the details about them as creatures are explained to us and they come off as more like tools than living beings, let alone Gods. That is kind of the point, yes. It's worth noting that the translation of Barthandalus is actually a change for the US version and he should probably be called Baldanders. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 17:37
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:^^No they're not. Those gods are at least given personalities. They Have likes and dislikes. They argue and fight with humans and other gods. The lust after things like women and booze and power. Old gods (ESPECIALLY Greco-Roman ones) are very very human in action and personality. There's nothing close to that with the Fal-Cie. I believe the implication from the story is that the fal-cie are not "more free" than humans to be individualistic or anything. We're slaves to fal-cie, fal-cie are slaves to a higher power. It seems pretty cut and dry. By virture of the fact that no two fal-cie are similar, it shouldn't surprise you when they don't all express similar traits.
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Aug 4, 2013 17:40
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Austrian mook posted:No, I know what they are. I'm just so loving confused as to what in practice they do? Pretty sure the encyclopedia explains what each one was responsible for.
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Aug 4, 2013 17:49
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Is any of this explained in game? Or in the data logs? E: my biggest problem with this game is the loving fake words. The first hour is so hard to follow. Iff youre going to do fake words, no more than 5 per hour of play thanks. Also, i did not play this game for long if thats not clear. Austrian mook fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 17:50
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Austrian mook posted:Is any of this explained in game? Or in the data logs? Yes, this is one part which is actually explained in-game. (As per usual for FFXIII though, the data logs go into more detail.) Austrian mook posted:E: my biggest problem with this game is the loving fake words. The first hour is so hard to follow. Iff youre going to do fake words, no more than 5 per hour of play thanks. Also, i did not play this game for long if thats not clear. Aside from Fal'cie, l'cie and Cie Corpse/Cie'th, what fake words show up? I mean there's "Pulse" and "Coccoon" but those are both real words and just the names of places. Edit: I don't mean for that to sound sarcastic. I don't know if they added other bullshit to the US version. They made up Cie'th wholecloth so it isn't impossible. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 17:51
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Austrian mook posted:Is any of this explained in game? Or in the data logs? Agreed, gently caress all of.... anything fiction ever written? Almost any single fiction story is filled with fake words that you have to learn. It's what builds the world and makes it into something not of our own.
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Aug 4, 2013 17:54
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Cerulily posted:Agreed, gently caress all of.... anything fiction ever written? Except they bother explaining them? In the first few minutea of 13 theyre going, Fal-cie on cocoon also L-cie and this. Also what the gently caress are you talking about? I mean fantasy and sci-fi a bit but every piece? Come on. E: as far as i played, my goal.was to fuffil the L-cie mission thing. But they dont know what that is. This continued for like 10 hours of a world where theres not even a map or anything how big is cocoon? I dont even know what cocoon is. Austrian mook fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 17:58
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Everything in FF13 looks like a perfume commercial.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:02
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Cerulily posted:Agreed, gently caress all of.... anything fiction ever written? But not at the rate at which this game throws them at you. FFXIII-2 has a story primer on the main menu, not to mention the datalogs. If I wanted to find out additional bits of story in FF9 I had to bring up the Moogle on the key items. I can't see how XIII's universe can be defended at all, it's terrible.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:04
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Cerulily posted:
Read better books.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:05
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Yohan Kebab posted:But not at the rate at which this game throws them at you. FFXIII-2 has a story primer on the main menu, not to mention the datalogs. If I wanted to find out additional bits of story in FF9 I had to bring up the Moogle on the key items. What words do they throw at you besides Fal'cie, L'Cie and Cie'th? I'm really curious to hear what they added because that might explain why people are so confused. FFXIII has significantly less technobabble per minute than, like, Tales of the Abyss so I can't imagine how they made it so complex people can't understand it. Like FFXIII's story is dumb but dumb isn't the same thing as incoherent or hard to understand and so S-E must have hosed something up real good. In the Japanese version there is literally a scene where Sazh goes "here is a L'cie, here is what they do, here is what happens when they succeed or fail" and another where Vanille sums up the Pulse/Coccoon thing in like two sentences. This is admittedly the same company that took straightforward MMO-style role names and made them into "Synergist" and "Ravager" so I can't be shocked they made other stuff more convoluted for no reason. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 18:06
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Oxxidation posted:Read better books. What...does this even mean. You're implying i only read lovely books because i feel that some stories require you to pay attention and learn terms through association and context? How am i even supposed to take this statement seriously?
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Aug 4, 2013 18:07
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The made up words in FFXIII are basically perfect examples of how to come up with bad fictional terms, but I still don't understand how people seem to have so much trouble understand them. They're dumb, but straight forward. Except for Cocoon, which is actually a pretty good name for a giant, floating, spherical miniature world. e: I literally never read a datalog, for what it's worth. Cake Attack fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 18:12
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ImpAtom posted:Like FFXIII's story is dumb but dumb isn't the same thing as incoherent or hard to understand. XIII's story is dumb, incoherent and poorly delivered. I'm sure it's much better if you read all the datalogs, but that's simply not the same story that's delivered in the game. The game itself is lacking critical information, and is paced terribly. You'd think with hours of cutscenes, they'd be able to do more with them than just have the characters stand around arguing, while Gods are doing important stuff off-camera. Also, jargon is something that should be avoided whenever possible, especially when it can be conveyed by something more familiar. A lightsaber isn't a real thing, but from the name you can tell that it's a sword made out of light. Fal'Cie doesn't mean anything outside of the context of the game.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:14
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Cerulily posted:What...does this even mean. You're implying i only read lovely books because i feel that some stories require you to pay attention and learn terms through association and context? Because most literature that isn't genre fiction doesn't rely on or utilize jargon that can only be divined via context. So either read better books or invest in a dictionary, I suppose?
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Aug 4, 2013 18:18
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That loving Sned posted:XIII's story is dumb, incoherent and poorly delivered. I'm sure it's much better if you read all the datalogs, but that's simply not the same story that's delivered in the game. The game itself is lacking critical information, and is paced terribly. You'd think with hours of cutscenes, they'd be able to do more with them than just have the characters stand around arguing, while Gods are doing important stuff off-camera. Yes, I agree that it's dumb and badly delivered, but the things people are confused about here are not things like the Etro bullshit. They're things which are (at least in the Japanese version) explained directly onscreen, not in the datalog. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 18:18
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Mr. Maltose posted:Because most literature that isn't genre fiction doesn't rely on or utilize jargon that can only be divined via context. So either read better books or invest in a dictionary, I suppose? However, a LOT of fiction does use jargon, even stuff that isn't genre fiction such as books that explore subcultures with their own slang and language. This is a really stupid argument, and FFXIII has all of three fake words that you find out the meaning of in the first goddamn hour. Jesus, people are starting to grasp for straws to bash FF13 at this point.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:29
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Cerulily posted:Agreed, gently caress all of.... anything fiction ever written? Cerulily posted:What...does this even mean. You're implying i only read lovely books because i feel that some stories require you to pay attention and learn terms through association and context? Read Better Books. I recommend Discworld stuff if you want fantasy.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:29
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I dunno about the US but I played it in the UK and had absolutely no difficulty understanding what the three Cies were. They are straightforward and clear concepts directly embedded in the plot. I don't see how you could possibly be seriously confused unless you weren't paying any attention at all, which would be an indictment of the quality of the story but a completely different one.Mr. Maltose posted:Because most literature that isn't genre fiction doesn't rely on or utilize jargon that can only be divined via context. So either read better books or invest in a dictionary, I suppose? Final Fantasy XIII is SF. It is genre fiction. What the guy said was wrong as a statement about fiction in general but is totally correct about the sort of fiction we're discussing.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:30
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ImpAtom posted:Yes, I agree that it's dumb and badly delivered, but the things people are confused about here are not things like the Etro bullshit. They're things which are (at least in the Japanese version) explained directly onscreen, not in the datalog. Fair enough, I didn't have trouble picking up what the 'Cie terms were since the characters explained things like the Cie'th being people who got turned into zombies for not completing their focus in time. I still can't believe how little of the actual Etro plot is made clear to the characters themselves, as well as the person playing, since you're seeing it from their perspective. It's as if some stupid poo poo happenned in the Lord of the Rings that comes at a complete surprise and contradicts everything that came before it, and someone just tells you that if you had been reading the Silmarillion alongside it, then you'd have known what was going on. You're already reading a massive loving book, why wouldn't the actual story be in it as well?
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Aug 4, 2013 18:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Read Better Books. I recommend Discworld stuff if you want fantasy. I love Discworld but it isn't exactly what I'd call free of jargon. It uses it as the basis for quite a few jokes in fact. Also, to be honest, "this is trash" isn't the same as "people dislike it." Things like Wheel of Time are filled to the brim with their own jargon and mythology and yet they sell gangbusters and have tons of fans. It's trashy genre fiction but in what universe is Final Fantasy not trashy genre fiction?
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Aug 4, 2013 18:35
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I'm going to be so happy when FF15 comes out so you all have something else to ceaselessly argue about. Geez people, it's a bad game, it has a lot of bad things in it, accept it, move on. You seriously can't say anything about FF14 or the various spin off games Square has made since, like Duodecim or Dimensions or other poo poo?
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Aug 4, 2013 18:43
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ImpAtom posted:I love Discworld but it isn't exactly what I'd call free of jargon. It uses it as the basis for quite a few jokes in fact. FFX 
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Aug 4, 2013 18:43
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Gologle posted:I'm going to be so happy when FF15 comes out so you all have something else to ceaselessly argue about. Geez people, it's a bad game, it has a lot of bad things in it, accept it, move on. You seriously can't say anything about FF14 or the various spin off games Square has made since, like Duodecim or Dimensions or other poo poo? Say something of actual worth yourself if you want to steer the conversation in a different direction, thanks. And ARR has its own thread, so no need to talk about it here.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:46
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When in September does TGS take place? I bet the same trailer from E3 is going to be shown again, but it's still nice to hope that something new is going to be revealed on FFXV. Unless that new thing involves Nomura busting out then it'll be amazing  He can also announce that he's got the TWEWY writers on board. That'd be cool, too.
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