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The 'Cie thing confused the hell out of me for the first hour or so, since it takes a bit of time before they actually explain it in-game. It can seem overwhelming at first since they start off throwing a bunch of weird words at you with no explanation, but in reality there's only three words that the game uses repeatedly, and once you're in that floating area the game bothers to actually explain what's going on, so it's not so bad. I can see it being confusing if you stop playing after an hour or two of gameplay, but they start hammering it in once those details actually become important. They still probably could have laid off the constant Fal'cie and L'cie thing until those terms became more relevant (i.e. everyone's in the floating dungeon of nonsense thing).
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Aug 4, 2013 19:04
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FFX had the fortunate storytelling crutch of a stranger in a strange land, which made it relevant and necessary to frequently explain what things were. Edit: Every JRPG should do this.
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Aug 4, 2013 19:13
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They have just called them something like Gods, God-thralls, and Undead. But nope, gotta make up some fancy apostrophe words that mean exactly the same thing.
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Aug 4, 2013 19:35
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Austrian mook posted:No, I know what they are. I'm just so loving confused as to what in practice they do? Like, every time you find a fal-cie it looks different and seems to have different rules? I had this exact same problem. Are the fal'Cie all sapient was a big thing for me while I played the game. Because you run into Barty who is all nice and chatty and powerful and then you meet Atomos, who is just a big wheel or something that you can overpower in a rather comical scene. The tone of the fal'Cie and everything about them was just not well done. If they had just played up the Death Seeker aspect, I'd have really dug tem as antagonists. I actually went through and read all of XIII's Datalogs and the one I liked most was about how the Pulse dudes even commented on the lovely situation of the Cocoon fal'CIe. Their God basically created them in these lovely roles they'd have to endure for eternity and then he left them to it. The Abandoned Ones indeed. But all of this is only ever revealed in the climax. Before that Barthandalus is just MWAHAHAHAHA Evil and so you don't really give a crap about him.
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Aug 4, 2013 19:35
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Fister Roboto posted:They have just called them something like Gods, God-thralls, and Undead. But nope, gotta make up some fancy apostrophe words that mean exactly the same thing. How dare they be a little inventive! They should have just called Mako Magic Super Soldier Juice! They're three words that are explained in full within the first hour or two of FFXIII. This isn't a big deal/a problem/a flaw of the game.
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Aug 4, 2013 19:36
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Azure_Horizon posted:How dare they be a little inventive! They should have just called Mako Magic Super Soldier Juice! Pointless apostrophes are like cancer to my eyeballs and FFXIII is a worse offender than even my dumbest Facebook friends.
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Aug 4, 2013 19:39
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exquisite tea posted:Pointless apostrophes are like cancer to my eyeballs and FFXIII is a worse offender than even my dumbest Facebook friends. I actually like how the made up words sound but drat those apostrophes are awful. Someone mentioned before that there's no reason they couldn't have just left it as "Falcie," "Lacie" and "Cieth" without the unnecessary apostrophes and I completely agree.
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Aug 4, 2013 19:46
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It was a good idea to come up with some fresh terms for those three things, but the ones they chose were pretty bad. Meaningless fantasy apostrophes have been a subject of mockery for so long I'm surprised they got them past editing.
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Aug 4, 2013 19:46
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Azure_Horizon posted:How dare they be a little inventive! They should have just called Mako Magic Super Soldier Juice! And you completely missed my point. "L'Cie" can be easily replaced with "God-thrall" without any meaning being lost, and it saves you having to be told that "L'Cie means God-thrall". "Mako" doesn't really have such an easy analogue, although it's not even a made-up word to begin with. Look at it this way - "hobbit" is a good made up word because it doesn't already have a good real-word analogue. But "L'Cie" is like calling the Ring Wraiths "Flu'rble-doop'les" and then explaining to the reader that "Flu'rble-doop'le means Ring Wraith."
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Aug 4, 2013 19:52
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Fister Roboto posted:And you completely missed my point. "L'Cie" can be easily replaced with "God-thrall" without any meaning being lost, and it saves you having to be told that "L'Cie means God-thrall". I really don't see how this is any different to any other jargon the series has ever used before now. Obvious example would be that "Eidolon" can be easily replaced with "summoned creature" without meaning being lost, and it saves you having to be told that "Eidolon means summoned creature."
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Aug 4, 2013 19:54
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Fister Roboto posted:And you completely missed my point. "L'Cie" can be easily replaced with "God-thrall" without any meaning being lost, and it saves you having to be told that "L'Cie means God-thrall". "Mako" doesn't really have such an easy analogue, although it's not even a made-up word to begin with. "God-thrall" is not actually a word. It's a portmanteau of two existing words and, by your logic, you should do that for everything. Hobbits should have just been Little People. Jedi should have been Space Wizards. It's only with Final Fantasy XIII that people seem to have problems with fiction creating new terms. And as for the second part... uh, Lord of the Rings literally does that. Nazgûl, remember? It is literally a made-up word that means "Ring Wraith" in one of Tolkien's languages. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 19:55
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ImpAtom posted:"God-thrall" is not actually a word. It's a portmanteau of two existing words and, by your logic, you should do that for everything. Hobbits should have just been Little People. Jedi should have been Space Wizards. It's only with Final Fantasy XIII that people seem to have problems with fiction creating new terms. That's not a portmanteau, it's a compound word. Compound words are used all the time in the real world. My problem with it is that L'Cie has a very basic definition and it can be changed to mundane words without losing meaning. Changing hobbit to little people loses meaning, because it doesn't distinguish them from dwarves, or actual little humans. I wouldn't mind it so much if it weren't for the apostrophes, and also if it wasn't attached to such a horrible game in the first place. ImpAtom posted:
Fair enough, but I'll give Tolkien the credit for making up an entire language for his fictional setting, so it doesn't stand out as badly. In FF13, it's just those three words and no invented language that they belong to, so they stick out like a sore thumb. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 20:06
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I personally couldn't care less about any of the made-up nonsense words, other than if the story clarifies, or at least hints to their actual meaning. Which XIII does...eventually. You can grasp that fal'Cie = "Robogods", Cie'th = "crystal zombies", and L'Cie = "these pricks I've got to put up with for the rest of the game". It can be kinda tricky trying to introduce that sort of concept when you begin in medias res. And when it's clear that the editors are stitching crap together trying to make some semblance of sense. Having an audience surrogate would have helped too - it helped for X. I mean, no-one here is questioning what an "unsent" is, or a "fayth". Of course it always boils down to how badly written XIII is so...  Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 20:07
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Pesky Splinter posted:I personally couldn't care less about any of the made-up nonsense words, other than if the story clarifies, or at least hints to their actual meaning. Which XIII does...eventually. Full disclosure, I never did figure out exactly what the hell a fayth was when I was actually playing the game.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:07
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Fister Roboto posted:That's not a portmanteau, it's a compound word. Compound words are used all the time in the real world. My problem with it is that L'Cie has a very basic definition and it can be changed to mundane words without losing meaning. Changing hobbit to little people loses meaning, because it doesn't distinguish them from dwarves, or actual little humans. Except compound words are generally not used when a new term can be made. It doesn't make any sense and it isn't how language functions, nor does any form of fiction tie itself to only using compound words instead of invented terms. And as I said, I never see this for anything else ever. It feels like people are stretching for things to complain about with FFXIII.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:11
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Even if you call fal'Cie 'gods' you still have to establish the details of what the things you're calling 'gods' in this setting, since the term can mean anything from minor pond spirits to the first principle of all existence. Almost all of the work remains to be done. You also carry in baggage from everything else that has ever used the word 'god', which you might or might not want. Also, 'god(dess)' is used to refer to Etro & peers as distinct from fal'Cie, and they fit the typical Western usage of the word much more closely. There's really nothing wrong with having three novel and connected terms. They're just bad terms in a bad story. Peel fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 20:14
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FF XIII also has horrible characters and the most loving mundane and awful combat system possibly ever. The only character I like is the black dude (I don't know how to spell that name) because he was cool even though he doesn't really do anything. Lightning was Squall as a girl, Snow is painful, Vanille is stupid, and Hope, loving christ. Also there's an australian girl I guess? And Sheva being a loving motercycle? what? what? what? what? I don't even... Honestly, I turned the game off there and just, I just stopped. I waited like a week before I even thought about the game again because... They're a motercycle? Why? Also there's Snow's super powered trenchcoat and lightnings dumb gravaty thing that isn't really ever used despite it being kind of cool and Vannile's weapon that's a staff thing she finds on the ground and I just... FF XIII might be the worst game ever. I'm not even kidding. Like at least Sonic 2006 is fun bad. Like that game's hysterical, this is just... I don't know why I wrote all these words they cannot begin to describe how much I really hate XIII. Just finish that X-HD bit square. Then we can be friends again.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:16
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If FF13 didn't have a bad story nobody would complain about it and its dumb words, but it does, so here we are.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:16
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Oxxidation posted:Full disclosure, I never did figure out exactly what the hell a fayth was when I was actually playing the game. Seeing as FFX is one of my all time favorites I was going to be all smug and explain it an I realized, welp I'm not entirely sure either to be honest ^^^^^^^^: If this bad game wasn't bad it wouldn't be bad? Wow!
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Aug 4, 2013 20:17
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Austrian mook posted:
Final Fantasy XIII isn't even the worst game to have the Final Fantasy name, let alone the worst game ever. I know hyperbole is the name of the game and all, but Jesus, this game was released on the PS3 in the year of our lord 2013. We've had games like Aliens; Colonial Marines released which are humiliating, broken, and ugly in addition to having stories which, in their own way, are as dumb as anything FFXIII put out. It's a dumb game. I don't know why that has to be hyperboled into "this is the worst thing ever and everything it does is the worst thing ever!" I mean before we forget, Square-Enix put out this game too. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 20:20
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It's getting really hard to tell whether people's complaints about 13 are serious or not.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:23
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ImpAtom posted:Final Fantasy XIII isn't even the worst game to have the Final Fantasy name, let alone the worst game ever. I know hyperbole is the name of the game and all, but Jesus, this game was released on the PS3 in the year of our lord 2013. I was being pretty hyperbolic but sheesh... What the gently caress am I looking at here? E: HOO BOY THAT TOP COMMENT
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Aug 4, 2013 20:24
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This has to be the worst nitpicking argument I've ever heard over three unbelievably, incredibly simple terms.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:26
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Austrian mook posted:I was being pretty hyperbolic but sheesh... What the gently caress am I looking at here? The depths to which video games will sink is deep and murky. The wise avoid treading there.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:28
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Austrian mook posted:I was being pretty hyperbolic but sheesh... What the gently caress am I looking at here? Time and Eternity is... certainly something special. I almost want to play it just to see how bad it really gets. I'll probably regret even thinking that if I ever do, but until then I'll remain curious of just how deep the rabbit hole of that game can get.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:29
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Austrian mook posted:I was being pretty hyperbolic but sheesh... What the gently caress am I looking at here? Yeah 
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Aug 4, 2013 20:29
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ImpAtom posted:Final Fantasy XIII isn't even the worst game to have the Final Fantasy name, let alone the worst game ever. I know hyperbole is the name of the game and all, but Jesus, this game was released on the PS3 in the year of our lord 2013. The reviews for Time and Eternity... holy gently caress. Game got slaughtered.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:33
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There's FF All the Bravest... 
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Aug 4, 2013 20:34
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Austrian mook posted:And Sheva being a loving motercycle? what? what? what? what? I don't even... Honestly, I turned the game off there and just, I just stopped. I waited like a week before I even thought about the game again because... They're a motercycle? See this is where I actually payed money for the game to see how stupid it got.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:36
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Austrian mook posted:There's FF All the Bravest... Now that may actually be the worst game to hold the Final Fantasy title. Maybe Dirge of Cerberus. (Especially if we're discussing the Japanese version because hooooly gently caress.)
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Aug 4, 2013 20:36
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Oxxidation posted:Full disclosure, I never did figure out exactly what the hell a fayth was when I was actually playing the game. Austrian mook posted:Seeing as FFX is one of my all time favorites I was going to be all smug and explain it an I realized, welp I'm not entirely sure either to be honest A fayth is a stone structure containing the sleeping soul of one or more people. Summoners who pray to the fayth and are recognized by them gain the ability to draw the dreams of the fayth into the world of Spira, usually in the form of an Aeon that can fight on the summoner's behalf.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:37
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This entire conversation is really dumb. FFXIII has a big problem and that problem is that it is not fun. The combat doesn't require enough skill to engage you and there's nothing else really to do besides combat and watching the story, which is itself a pain in the rear end to follow and annoyingly stuffed with cliches and twists and melodrama. That's all there is to it, really, anything else is just debating on flavors of badness or disagreeing (for some reason) and saying that somehow the combat was not dull and poorly paced. You know what a really fun Final Fantasy game was? Final Fantasy VIII. That game had crazy poo poo, you could fight T-rex monsters within the first five minutes, you got to storm a beach and run from giant robots, dismantle trains with button passcodes and sneak through security checkpoints, attempt an assassination and break the gently caress out of a prison that is also a drill. The whole time you can collect new super sweet summon monsters who you can then train like Pokemon to give you super sweet loving skills that can make you have 9999 HP or take next to no damage or absorb fire magic and hey, you know what, if you get bored of breaking apart every item into the game into magic spells to further augment your stats so you can kick massive rear end while going on yet another crazy mission in some far-off land then you know what you can loving do? That's right daddy-o, you can play motherfucking cards. That's right why don't you go right ahead and convert every monster into a playing card AND THEN PLAY THAT poo poo. Aw but you won't need to do that, you're better than that--you want the rare cards. Get them rare cards, all over the world, beat their owners and claim your prize and then at the end of the game you can turn those cards into NUCLEAR BOMBS why the gently caress aren't all of you playing Final Fantasy VIII right the gently caress now? What, the story's dumb? Who gives a gently caress you get to have a fistfight in freefall with a jetpack soldier and that's before you go to the invisible future city and summon the legions of Hell living on the god damned loving moon.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:41
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ImpAtom posted:Final Fantasy XIII isn't even the worst game to have the Final Fantasy name, let alone the worst game ever. I know hyperbole is the name of the game and all, but Jesus, this game was released on the PS3 in the year of our lord 2013. Colonial Marines is bad because it's the product of outsourcing, bad management, budget cuts, and a whole list of other things. It is bad because the process of production was flawed. FF13 is a whole other level of shittiness because the things that they did, they thought were good ideas. Essentially, A:CM is "oh my god how did they manage to do such a bad job making this?" and FF13 is "how the gently caress did they think this was a good idea, and they worked on it FOR YEARS with nobody telling them it wasn't?" It may not be the absolute worst thing ever, but it's the difference between eating a bowl of poo poo and gargling a bucket of diarrhea. I can't loving tell the difference.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:43
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Defiance Industries posted:Colonial Marines is bad because it's the product of outsourcing, bad management, budget cuts, and a whole list of other things. It is bad because the process of production was flawed. FF13 is a whole other level of shittiness because the things that they did, they thought were good ideas. It may not be the absolute worst thing ever, but it's the difference between eating a bowl of poo poo and gargling a bucket of diarrhea. I can't loving tell the difference. I want to meet the people that think Vannile is a very good and fleshed out character so bad.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:44
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BottledBodhisvata posted:This entire conversation is really dumb. FFVIII is also a game with absolutely poo poo gameplay that can be broken within the first hour by playing a card game and then all you have left is its poo poo-salad storyline, passable soundtrack, and inane plot twists. The gameplay structure is built so that playing the game the normal Final Fantasy way is wrong and playing the game how it's meant to be played makes it the easiest game in the franchise, thus being so boring that it threatens to swallow the entire game into a vacuum of boredom.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:46
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BottledBodhisvata posted:You know what a really fun Final Fantasy game was? Mystic Quest?
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Aug 4, 2013 20:48
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ImpAtom posted:Now that may actually be the worst game to hold the Final Fantasy title. Maybe Dirge of Cerberus. (Especially if we're discussing the Japanese version because hooooly gently caress.) Do tell, I'm curious as to how it could be any worse than the English version - the only thing I know is that they replaced the useless dodge roll with an equally useless dash for the international versions. [e]: ImpAtom posted:I know hyperbole is the name of the game and all, but Jesus, this game was released on the PS3 in the year of our lord 2013. What in the hell is that. On second thoughts, ignorance is bliss. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 20:48
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alcharagia posted:Mystic Quest? Hell yeah it was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upPEhhzTTw
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Aug 4, 2013 20:51
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I'm just waiting for a character in XV to have a fedora honestly.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:51
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alcharagia posted:Mystic Quest? I change my post to this.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:52
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