|
So, what's the general consensus on Orange is the New Black? It was mentioned above in terms of women's corrections being a good starting point for selling reform to a wider audience, but I'm interested what people think of the show itself. Does it gloss over the nasty bits too much? Does it play too fast and loose with reality? Or is it perhaps even too sensationalized? Might it actually cause a backlash, sort of like the CSI effect, where people begin to believe what they see on TV is an accurate reflection of reality and then base their opinions off it? I think the way it humanizes all of the prisoners is an obvious step in the right direction, but I still don't know that it'll be beneficial when all is said and done.
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2013 05:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 06:30 |
|
|
kylejack posted:The Feds are bad for creating perverse incentives, sure, yet are still better at managing prisons than many states. For now. Federal prison populations are going while even California and Texas shrink populations.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2013 06:19
|
|
|
I just stumbled across this little pair of factoids about the US Federal Witness Protection Program:quote:The program's operations are kept secret, but a few facts are revealed by the Department of Justice.[3] Witnesses are given 24-hour-a-day security while in a high-threat environment.[4] Money for housing, essentials, and medical care is provided to witnesses.[4] WITSEC also provides job training and employment assistance.[4] quote:Recidivism Hmm...I wonder if these two facts have anything at all to do with one another.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2013 07:32
|
|
|
VideoTapir posted:I just stumbled across this little pair of factoids about the US Federal Witness Protection Program:  I hate everything. Edit: Don't get me wrong; taking down organized crime groups is great. But convincing the average American that prisoners and ex-prisoners deserve to not be shunned, raped and murdered is a Sisyphean battle. Soulcleaver fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Aug 7, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2013 08:41
|
|
|
PT6A posted:So, what's the general consensus on Orange is the New Black? It was mentioned above in terms of women's corrections being a good starting point for selling reform to a wider audience, but I'm interested what people think of the show itself. Does it gloss over the nasty bits too much? Does it play too fast and loose with reality? Or is it perhaps even too sensationalized? Might it actually cause a backlash, sort of like the CSI effect, where people begin to believe what they see on TV is an accurate reflection of reality and then base their opinions off it? IMO the show is fantastically entertaining. In terms of realism, I can't say first hand but it is after all based on a true story. It's certainly more realistic than 99% of all prison portrayals on television. I think that anything which gets people talking about the prison population is a good thing. I have seen a few documentaries about female prisoners and this doesn't seem way out there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
PT6A posted:So, what's the general consensus on Orange is the New Black? It was mentioned above in terms of women's corrections being a good starting point for selling reform to a wider audience, but I'm interested what people think of the show itself. Does it gloss over the nasty bits too much? Does it play too fast and loose with reality? Or is it perhaps even too sensationalized? Might it actually cause a backlash, sort of like the CSI effect, where people begin to believe what they see on TV is an accurate reflection of reality and then base their opinions off it? I don't know if there's a concensus, but I think this post in TVIV was a pretty good summary: zoux posted:OK, Orange is the New Black:
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2013 18:24
|
|
|
Good news from the FCC, they're capping charges for inmate phone calls. In general, inmates won't have to pay more than .25 per minute. Luckily for my company that's about what we charged anyways so we won't be as hard hit as the companies listed in the article will be. For purely selfish reason, that also means they'll have to compete based on factors other than the level of kickbacks to the sheriff. And if you've never made a prison phone call before, they can get very pricey: quote:A 15-minute long-distance interstate collect call by a Mississippi inmate costs $14.55, while the same call by a Texas inmate costs $6.45, a 2011 Government Accountability Office study found. A Prison Legal News survey found Georgia inmates paying $17 for a 15-minute call.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 15:05
|
|
|
duz posted:Good news from the FCC, they're capping charges for inmate phone calls. In general, inmates won't have to pay more than .25 per minute. Luckily for my company that's about what we charged anyways so we won't be as hard hit as the companies listed in the article will be. For purely selfish reason, that also means they'll have to compete based on factors other than the level of kickbacks to the sheriff. Our jail charges so much, the probation office won't take jail phone calls.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2013 02:28
|
|
|
Soulcleaver posted:Edit: Don't get me wrong; taking down organized crime groups is great. But convincing the average American that prisoners and ex-prisoners deserve to not be shunned, raped and murdered is a Sisyphean battle.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2013 02:44
|
|
|
nm posted:Our jail charges so much, the probation office won't take jail phone calls. Is that a joke? Like "Your momma so fat..."?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2013 02:50
|
|
|
VideoTapir posted:Is that a joke? Like "Your momma so fat..."? Its a joke, but not one that makes you go "haha."
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2013 02:54
|
|
|
nm posted:Our jail charges so much, the probation office won't take jail phone calls. I honest to god am not sure if this is a joke or just a statement of fact about an actual prison, welcome to America! Haha! Ha! Hahaha!
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2013 14:12
|
|
|
Warchicken posted:I honest to god am not sure if this is a joke or just a statement of fact about an actual prison, welcome to America! Haha! Ha! Hahaha! 100% serious.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 05:51
|
|
|
Warchicken posted:I honest to god am not sure if this is a joke or just a statement of fact about an actual prison, welcome to America! Haha! Ha! Hahaha! Our public defender office doesn't take (collect) calls from the jail. VVVV When our clients have phone cards, they don't waste them on us. We go the jail a lot and there is an electronic kite system. We should have free VTC within the next couple months. Just wondering, how may hours a week do you guys spend at the jail? joat mon fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Aug 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 06:13
|
|
|
joat mon posted:Our public defender office doesn't take (collect) calls from the jail. Jesus loving christ. The good news is that my office is exempt from the whole scheme. PD numbers = free and no recording (they claim).
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 06:30
|
|
|
nm posted:100% serious. I live in a free, just country run by people with my best interest in mind 
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 11:40
|
|
|
I've been putting off writing this, but we've had a few students from the US visit the place I work and they seem pretty interested, so I figure someone here might be as well. I know this thread is pretty focused on the US, so anyone who doesn't care about ~our Finnish socialist paradise~ should probably stop reading now. I'll mostly write an introduction to where I am and what we do. So, long story short, a few years ago I hit rock bottom and sought treatment for substance abuse. I could go on a huge tangent about how great the place was, but I'll just leave a google translated link here. After 4 months there, followed by 3 months of out-patient treatment at a different place, I dick around for a bit, go back to school etc and finally start a rehabilitative work period at KRIS. What this means is that I currently work for 20 hours a week there for unemployment benefits and an additional carrot of 9€ for each workday. Adds up to around 800€ a month. The government also pays a part of our rent (~500€ out of ~780€). I haven't been to prison personally, but mention this because this is about what someone in the same kind of situation would make as well when they get out, if they work here. So, KRIS is a 3rd sector organization, formed by Swedish convicts who decided enough is enough and founded it to help people who get out of prison stay out of prison. The acronym roughly translates to "criminals rematch in society" although the word for rematch has a more positive connotation perhaps. KRIS now exists in multiple countries, in Finland in multiple cities. Everyone who works here has either a prison sentence or a history of substance abuse/criminal activity. We're sober/clean. As the requirement to actually work in prisons is, well, having been in prison, I can't do that. However I work closely with the guys who do, and we all share the same activity center/office. What it basically boils down to is we go to prisons and have infos about who we are and what we do. Prisoners who want to are allowed to meet our guys 1on1 in private chats to discuss their plans, vent their frustration, anxiety or whatever and just discuss life and their options in general. When they get released, we are there, at the gates, to pick them up. It's hard to stay clean and on the right path if you get picked up by old friends with a car full of drugs. Worth a mention at this point, 95% of prisoners in Finland have a problem with drugs. We can just drop them off where they want, or bring them to our activity center so they can get a breather and get used to the idea of being free again. Most of our guys call them in the evening to ask what's up. Most are probably drunk at that point, but no biggie. It happens, come see us when you sober up. Not judging people is a big part of why prisoners like us. What really is a big thing and keeps people from going back though, is the "trial-release" (probation I guess) program. They get their basic GPS trackers and need to check in daily. They are basically serving the end of their sentences working with us. Some of our current full time employees started out like this. I don't have the stats on hand, but of the people who finish their probation with us, something like 80 or 90% stay out of prison. We also have contacts with the people who can get the ball rolling for you into rehab and a lot of other places, so someone who walks in the door saying he's done more than likely can get the help he needs. This is probably a bit off-topic, but what I'm currently working on is getting our youth-program off the ground proper. Or well, basically getting it under its own organization technically, so getting funding would be easier. What we do is a lot the same stuff - talking to people, figuring out their plans and options with them etc. We're also now starting to pick young people up when they get out of treatment of whatever, same rationale as above with the prisoners. Basically our prison-dudes work to keep people from going back and we work to keep people from ending up in there. We also have our own football team (fine! soccer!) and work with the Homeless Academy that gathers a team to play in the Homeless World Cup street soccer tournament every year. This year it's in Poland and I think most of the team consists of "our guys". That's most of the basic stuff I guess. It's a different way of doing things than what I read in this thread most of the time. Although to be fair, if it wasn't for KRIS, there would be very little to nothing like this to helps prisoners here, apart from general welfare and social services-type stuff. edit:  this is where I work. Sorry about weird perspective and huge size, it's a photosphere really. That's our activity center-part of the office. Not pictured: conference room, smaller office rooms. Activity usually means drinking coffee and bullshitting. We have a ps3 to play NHL on and table soccer or whatever it is though Kehveli fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Aug 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 19:37
|
|
|
So... Finland helps drug addicts overcome their problems with therapy, understanding and just plain human kindness. Conversely, we throw them in medieval dungeons where they are likely to be raped and killed, treat them like dog poo poo with no rights if they are accused and after their release, and break all sorts of tenets of our own constitution in order to maximize the number of drug addicts thrust into prison. And anyone who opposes this insanity is labeled "soft on crime" and "coddling criminals" and is shunned. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 23:16
|
|
|
Soulcleaver posted:So... Finland helps drug addicts overcome their problems with therapy, understanding and just plain human kindness. Don't forget that we do it all to make money!
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 02:58
|
|
|
Warchicken posted:Don't forget that we do it all to make money! To make a depressingly small amount of money, in fact. The prison industry is actually not all that big because slave labor products just can't fill that much of the market. But it makes a nonzero amount of money and that justifies an infinite amount of brutality and injustice. America 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 03:12
|
|
|
Here's an interesting attempt to minimise the travesty of drug prohibition:Keith Humphreys Professor of Psychiatry at Stanford University posted:policy makers and the media should be more skeptical of the constantly recycled claim that prisons are full of non-violent drug offenders. That is not remotely true and never has been. KingEup fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 05:01
|
|
|
Let's theoretically assume this is true for a moment: that the prisons are, in fact, full of utterly violent criminals. Should not the astute policy maker actually be attempting to figure out why this is the case, and why the United States seems so uniquely prone to breeding violent criminals, and then enacting policies to counter it? I mean, this is admittedly a bunch of sophistry, since everyone knows why they don't (because those policies involve socialism), but the level of acrobatics being done to maintain this house of cards is staggering.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 05:07
|
|
|
KingEup posted:Here's an interesting attempt to minimise the travesty of drug prohibition: Lets ignore that a huge percentage of property, public order, and even violent crime is directly linked to drug use and mental health issues, 20% of our prison population is absolutely huge. If we could eliminate that population and help them on the path to recovery, we'd save billions of dollars and millions of lives. Of course, he's still operating under an assumption that long term incarceration can have a beneficial effect in most cases. I'm at a point where even something like paddling seems more effective and humane than the US prison system. nm fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Dude, straight up torture, cutting off of limbs and state enforced rape or sodomy would actually literally be a less harmful system than the one we use. I would way rather be savagely raped once than go to an American prison for a year. Pretty sure I'd take having a toe cut off or something too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 08:51
|
|
|
Soulcleaver posted:So... Finland helps drug addicts overcome their problems with therapy, understanding and just plain human kindness. I am not good enough with my words to know what the better term for that is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 15:58
|
|
|
Usually referred to as the rate of recidivism in this context. I too, would like to know that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 16:19
|
|
|
I looked up a PDF of those statistics. 1993-2001 40096 prisoners were released. By the end of 2002 22295 new sentences were given to those people. Going by this, the rate of recidivism would be 55,6. 1991-2000 the average prisoner has been in prison three times. Basically this means that we have people who keep ending up in prison, which means they get counted more than once, which ends up making the apparent rate of recidivism go up. So it's smarter to look at the whole thing on an individual level instead of staring at sentences. On an individual level, out of those 40096 released prisoners 11385 first timers and 4474 previous re-offenders were released. So at least 39% of first timers returned to prison at least once. When looking at released prisoners, around a third are first timers and about a third have been incarcerated at least five times previously. So it makes sense to look at first timers as their own statistical group. A thing worth noting is that a fourth of people returning to prison haven't committed a new crime - an investigation comes to a close so they end up doing time for a crime committed before their last sentence. Statistics get a bit tricky, but this I found to make the basic dynamic of recidivism in Finland clear on a generalized level. Let's say we have a batch of 100 first time prisoners. Out of these 100 prisoners, 38 end up back (rate of recidivism 38-40%). Out of these 38, 19 end up back for a third sentence (~50%). Out of these 19, 11 get a new sentence (~60%). Out of these 11, 7 come back (~65%). Out of these 7, 5 (~70%). So what basically happens is a majority of first time offenders don't end up back in prison. While the probability of ending up in prison that many times is small, that's the group who make up the largest group of prisoners - over half of them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 18:28
|
|
|
For comparison, over 3 years in California: 76% are rearrested 64% go back to prison (new convictions or parole violations) 50% get new convictions.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 19:59
|
|
|
Warchicken posted:Dude, straight up torture, cutting off of limbs and state enforced rape or sodomy would actually literally be a less harmful system than the one we use. I would way rather be savagely raped once than go to an American prison for a year. Thank goodness that judges in this day and age don't take into account our hysterical hyperbolic statements about all the limbs we'd cut off and awful rapes we'd hypothetically endure in the sentencing process and rather prefer to just condemn our minor felons to a couple of years of cramped quarters and nothing but network television. Cold and Ugly fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Aug 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:05
|
|
|
That can't be a serious post if you've read this thread at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:12
|
|
|
rscott posted:That can't be a serious post if you've read this thread at all. It's serious enough. How can you have a serious conversation about prison if people are claiming that they'd endure torture or the loss of a limb rather than spend a year in the custody of the state?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:13
|
|
|
Losing a toe would probably gently caress me up way less than spending a year in a US prison. Remember, he said toe, not a limb like an arm or a leg.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:20
|
|
|
Cold and Ugly posted:It's serious enough. How can you have a serious conversation about prison if people are claiming that they'd endure torture or the loss of a limb rather than spend a year in the custody of the state? It's pretty hosed up to characterize prison as cramped, limited TV options and that's about it. Your statement is probably the most hyperbolic on the page.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:24
|
|
|
Taeke posted:Losing a toe would probably gently caress me up way less than spending a year in a US prison. Remember, he said toe, not a limb like an arm or a leg. Initially, he said limb, which I read as an arm or leg. He also suggested that he'd prefer "state sponsored" sodomy. And you know, if I was facing a bid i'd probably let Jerry Brown gently caress me to get out of it. But it's a silly proposition tied to a ridiculous conception of the US prison system as some kind of bizarre torture camps, rather than, you know, cramped quarters and network TV and wasted time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:26
|
|
|
I mean, sure, it's hyperbolic, but not much. Yes, I would rather be publicly whipped than spend five years in prison, but you better loving believe it would act as a deterrent to crime. Straight up corporal punishment would be far, far better than our prison system in effectiveness, cost, and violating less civil rights and would be more humane. It's not really worth a derail because its another pie in the sky hypothetical, but yes, that's how bad it actually is. Cold and Ugly posted:Initially, he said limb, which I read as an arm or leg. He also suggested that he'd prefer "state sponsored" sodomy. And you know, if I was facing a bid i'd probably let Jerry Brown gently caress me to get out of it. But it's a silly proposition tied to a ridiculous conception of the US prison system as some kind of bizarre torture camps, rather than, you know, cramped quarters and network TV and wasted time. Really? You've read this thread and that's what you got from it? Really? A bizarre torture system is exactly what our prison system is . Last I checked, people in solitary for the last thirty years haven't been watching tv, people who are dead are dead, people who got raped aren't getting unraped by watching "network tv(??????????)" and nobody ever got rehabilitated by having to constantly avoid violence and being humiliated every single day. empty whippet box fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:26
|
|
|
Cold and Ugly posted:Initially, he said limb, which I read as an arm or leg. He also suggested that he'd prefer "state sponsored" sodomy. And you know, if I was facing a bid i'd probably let Jerry Brown gently caress me to get out of it. But it's a silly proposition tied to a ridiculous conception of the US prison system as some kind of bizarre torture camps, rather than, you know, cramped quarters and network TV and wasted time. And constant physical danger.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:27
|
|
|
Cold and Ugly posted:But it's a silly proposition tied to a ridiculous conception of the US prison system as some kind of bizarre torture camps, rather than, you know, cramped quarters and network TV and wasted time. There's tons of evidence (in this thread) for the former, and nothing but bullshit from Rush and Co. for the latter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:29
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:And constant physical danger. Well, obviously it isn't Finland. And the threat of physical harm is present, because you're sharing a space with a lot of other felons. But i'd be willing to bet that the number of guys who do their year or two and escape unharmed vastly outnumbers those who suffer any lasting harm, certainly anything equivalent to the loss of a limb or the ability to poo poo right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:30
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:There's tons of evidence (in this thread) for the former, and nothing but bullshit from Rush and Co. for the latter. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "Rush and Co.", man... but I would be very surprised if there was a lot of evidence for the proposition that there are straight up physical torture camps operating in the united states.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 06:30 |
|
|
Cold and Ugly posted:Well, obviously it isn't Finland. And the threat of physical harm is present, because you're sharing a space with a lot of other felons. But i'd be willing to bet that the number of guys who do their year or two and escape unharmed vastly outnumbers those who suffer any lasting harm, certainly anything equivalent to the loss of a limb or the ability to poo poo right. I guess if your definition of 'unharmed' is limited to 'still exists and didn't get too many scars, this would be true. The prison system lasts well outside of prison, though, and if you are a felon then sorry, you are hosed for life. There is no such thing as being "unharmed". The number of felons who got out 'unharmed' is zero. Cold and Ugly posted:I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "Rush and Co.", man... but I would be very surprised if there was a lot of evidence for the proposition that there are straight up physical torture camps operating in the united states. ...but there are. Sheriff joe arpaio? Any solitary confinement wing in the country at all?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2013 15:33
|
|