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NiceAaron posted:Could be less "stealing the power to turn into a titan" and more "stealing the power to switch between titan and human forms". Humm, maybe. But I still think is probably the former: she stole whatever they have that makes regular humans able to transform into titans and then used it on herself
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Aug 7, 2013 22:06
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Jimbot posted:Erin has always been like this. When Erin first met Misaka? Straight up murders two humans. Given they were terrible people, but two wrongs don't make a right. He's perpetuating the cycle of hate and destruction. His mantra worked when the story and antagonists were simplier, but now shades of grey krept in and it doesn't hold much, if any, weight. If his development is overcoming this flaw then that'll be spectacular, but so far he's only had one note and that is "I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all!" and it's boring and tiresome. Armin is better suited to be the main protagonist because he is eager to learn and grow as a character and is better suited as the stand-in for the audience to learn things Anyone who can't maintain the emotional detachment necessary to be relatable to goons is clearly a terrible character. It's almost as if he actually has to live through these events or something. Why can't his personality be more suited to brushing aside all conflict to get on with revealing more of the metaplot?
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Aug 7, 2013 22:41
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Hodgepodge posted:Anyone who can't maintain the emotional detachment necessary to be relatable to goons is clearly a terrible character. It's almost as if he actually has to live through these events or something. Why can't his personality be more suited to brushing aside all conflict to get on with revealing more of the metaplot? He's a terrible character because he's one-note and shallow. Like Prison Warden said, he's not even hot-blooded, he's just a hate-filled maniac with the power to live his revenge fantasy. When you remove that trait, you're left with nothing. He's not complex or interesting outside the fact that he turns into a titan and goose stomps other titans' head into the ground. When side characters are outpacing your supposedly main protagonist in the growth and interest department you have a problem. Also, having a protagonist who is at least bit interested with interacting with the plot sure does help.
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Aug 7, 2013 23:52
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Aug 8, 2013 00:01
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Jimbot posted:Also, having a protagonist who is at least bit interested with interacting with the plot sure does help.
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Aug 8, 2013 00:06
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Its just that point in the story, right now Erens dynamic is to force things along to bring up elements of other characters backstory. Stuff like Ymir and Historie etc. Also by Eren being unreasonable he's forcing dialogue out of Bert and Ernie etc etc.
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Aug 8, 2013 00:47
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The reason most goons dislike Eren is not because of some supposed lack of emotional detachment, but that both he and Mikasa and both somewhat flat, two dimensional characters surrounded by interesting, engaging, three-dimensonal characters with complex motivations. Even Sasha "Potatos" Brause has more depth than those two. Eren has been getting better the last few chapters, though, but Mikasa is still "beep boop Eren was nice and now I must use my freakish strength to protect him beep boop". With that said, Eren is still a better protagonist than most shounen.
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Aug 8, 2013 01:38
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I think that's boiling Mikasa down a lot further than necessary. She's probably one of the more tragic characters in the series BECAUSE of her dedication to Eren.
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Aug 8, 2013 01:52
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Captain Invictus posted:I think that's boiling Mikasa down a lot further than necessary. She's probably one of the more tragic characters in the series BECAUSE of her dedication to Eren. Agreed, she's just unbelievably broken. The scene immediately preceding Titan Eren showing up for the first time, in which she resolves that she has a reason to live so that she can still remember him is seriously hosed up if you think about it for more than a second.
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Aug 8, 2013 01:56
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Mikasa's attachment to Eren stems more than just some insane unrequited love. It's paramount to remember that she lost her parents at age 9 and then lost her adoptive parents just a few short years later. The first chapter showed her acting much more like a sister to Eren than anything. At this point in the story, Eren is the only constant she has in her life, so she's latched onto him as a psychological crutch. It's possible she wont develop in any meaningful way, and her characterization will stay like that forever, but I'd wager that to be unlikely.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:00
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I used to think that Bert and Ernie's goal was to free the titans in the walls, humanity be damned. I can't imagine anything else that they could be working towards that would (in their minds) justify the murders of hundreds of thousands of innocents. Then I realized that if that was the case the Colossal Titan could have just torn down the walls and freed his people instead of kicking in a single gate that contained only stones and mortar. Hell, they could have even done it relatively quietly in human form by stealing some 3D gear and chipping away at the walls with hand tools from the outside where no one was watching until they reached titan flesh. Isayama probably has something really cool to reveal instead, something that I can't even conceive of right now but will appear obvious in retrospect.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:04
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I'm posting from a phone, so I can't link, but mangastreams translation is up.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:05
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Soulcleaver posted:I used to think that Bert and Ernie's goal was to free the titans in the walls, humanity be damned. I can't imagine anything else that they could be working towards that would (in their minds) justify the murders of hundreds of thousands of innocents. Then I realized that if that was the case the Colossal Titan could have just torn down the walls and freed his people instead of kicking in a single gate that contained only stones and mortar. Hell, they could have even done it relatively quietly in human form by stealing some 3D gear and chipping away at the walls with hand tools from the outside where no one was watching until they reached titan flesh. There is actually a fourth wall, freshly built outside Wall Maria, using the quarter million people sent to retake Wall Maria. The idea of a culling or retaking the wall was just a front.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:13
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Jimbot posted:He's a terrible character because he's one-note and shallow. Like Prison Warden said, he's not even hot-blooded, he's just a hate-filled maniac with the power to live his revenge fantasy. When you remove that trait, you're left with nothing. He's not complex or interesting outside the fact that he turns into a titan and goose stomps other titans' head into the ground. When side characters are outpacing your supposedly main protagonist in the growth and interest department you have a problem. Also, having a protagonist who is at least bit interested with interacting with the plot sure does help. He doesn't have the power to live his fantasy, though. His ability has repeatedly been shown to be terribly insufficient. That alone is interesting. Captain Invictus posted:There is actually a fourth wall, freshly built outside Wall Maria, using the quarter million people sent to retake Wall Maria. The idea of a culling or retaking the wall was just a front. Then that wall is broken, letting in titans who were us, the readers, all along! 
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Aug 8, 2013 02:19
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Soulcleaver posted:I used to think that Bert and Ernie's goal was to free the titans in the walls, humanity be damned. I can't imagine anything else that they could be working towards that would (in their minds) justify the murders of hundreds of thousands of innocents. Then I realized that if that was the case the Colossal Titan could have just torn down the walls and freed his people instead of kicking in a single gate that contained only stones and mortar. Hell, they could have even done it relatively quietly in human form by stealing some 3D gear and chipping away at the walls with hand tools from the outside where no one was watching until they reached titan flesh. I've always figured their mission is to get the secrets of the Wall Cult. It's the reason they didn't push past Walls Rose or Shina; too much of a risk of the people who have the information dying. With the flood of refugees from Wall Maria, they would be able to mask themselves and become soldiers, and by excelling join the military police, which would put them near the people in power. This is also why Ymir knew Christa would be a good bargaining chip.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:40
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One of the people I follow on Tumblr likes to liveblog the manga, and I found what she wrote this time to be super funny. Also, I agree with her impressions 100%.quote:SNK CHAPTER 48 I AM BALLS DEEP IN THIS poo poo
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Aug 8, 2013 03:03
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It seems to me that Eren character arc has just begun. And even as he is, Eren is useful to remind us that even in this grim situation, there are things that can't be forgiven like human trafficking or mass murder. Plus, he's had very limited agency in the story for a while now: the plot is driven by different characters and forces outside of his control and all he's been doing is reacting to it to the best of his limited abilities and knowledge with, to put it kindly, varying results.
rvm fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Aug 8, 2013 |
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Aug 8, 2013 03:05
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Good lord. Mikasa was out for blood this chapter. I didn't think it could get better than her audibly fantasizing about how she was going to kill them all and then she had her little showdown on Reiner's back.
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Aug 8, 2013 03:18
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rvm posted:It seems to me that Eren character arc has just begun. And even as he is, Eren is useful to remind us that even in this grim situation, there are things that can't be forgiven like human trafficking or mass murder. Plus, he's had very limited agency in the story for a while now: the plot is driven by different characters and forces outside of his control and all he's been doing is reacting to it to the best of his limited abilities and knowledge with, to put it kindly, varying results. I find Eren to be an entertaining protagonist because just about everything he does is  -worthy. Outside of the training arc, his ballsy shoenen protagonist nature just causes him to constantly gently caress everything up.Bert and Ernie are probably my favorites though. It's interesting to see the toll their actions are taking on them. At Trost, Bert stays loyal and does his duty regardless of being aware of the suffering he'll cause, while Reiner abandons him to stay with the trainees. You've got Bert hiding his guilt under his dedication to the mission just like Erwin, and Reiner, who just wants to help his comrades. He's selfless no matter who's side he's on, but he's constantly hosed over by the fact that one side's war hero is another side's butcher. This last issue really hammered home the manga's themes. The trainees were pretty close to talking their way out of a Mexican standoff when Erwin came in. Well Hannes, it was nice knowing you in your three whole appearances.
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Aug 8, 2013 04:25
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Mikasa and Eren are my favorite characters honestly, at least of the ones that currently around. Jean was so obsessive about Mikasa that he sabotaged Eren's training gear, which nearly brained and killed or seriously injured him. He still hates Eren despite Eren doing nothing to him, and his whole character is based on it. Christa is boring. For being in the top 10 she sure seems to do very little that isn't being useless. Ymir is getting better, and seems less obsessed with Christa. Bert and Ernie are literally only interesting because of what they know - otherwise they are boring with their trait being the recent breakdowns. I barely remember Connie. What makes him so deep? All I remember is that him and Sasha are both from rural places. Annie is my favorite character because she is the only one who seemed to have both a goal (other human titans) and a personality instead of only one. Eren and Mikasa also only have a goal that makes up their personality (rage and devotion). But they have the bonus of being insane in a way that is "Woah drat slow down." Instead of in a 'oh great time for you to try to make me feel sorry for these guys' way. They never try to make those two seem 'redeemable' instead making Eren constantly screw up due to it and I was honestly hoping that Mikasa would end up slicing through Christa so everyone else would realize how crazy she is.
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Aug 8, 2013 04:53
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Mikasa and Eren might have fewer notes than the other characters, but a lot of times they seem to be played as forces of nature, or at least forces of their relentless singlemindedness and rage. That has made these past few chapters tense for me since they are both want to gently caress up this very delicate situation for their personal vendettas, and they're either capable of doing so or can act as a hazard for the others. You never know when their one-track objective du jour is actually gonna screw everything up or pull back enough for the saner folk to explain themselves. It's almost impossible to reason with them like you would most other people. I think things have gone beyond them being the only "main characters" so I don't mind that they've been played as volatile hair-triggers as of late. That's just where the current situation is leading their motivations and reactions.
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Aug 8, 2013 05:18
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The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes:
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Aug 8, 2013 05:20
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KittyEmpress posted:Jean was so obsessive about Mikasa that he sabotaged Eren's training gear, which nearly brained and killed or seriously injured him. It's strongly hinted/generally accepted that Mikasa sabotaged Eren's belt because she wanted to keep him out of the military. E: I want Armin/Mikasa Titan plushies so bad you don't even know
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Aug 8, 2013 05:21
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: Oh my God, Armintitan. I'm dying
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Aug 8, 2013 05:24
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: Titan-Connie being exactly the same size is the greatest thing.
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Aug 8, 2013 05:26
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Elias_Maluco posted:
Don't forget that previously Ymir said she had been a titan for about 60 years. So either what she stole allowed her to become human again, or the flashback with Bert and Ernie happened a looooong time ago.
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Aug 8, 2013 05:31
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KittyEmpress posted:Mikasa and Eren are my favorite characters honestly, at least of the ones that currently around. Jean was so obsessive about Mikasa that he sabotaged Eren's training gear, which nearly brained and killed or seriously injured him. He still hates Eren despite Eren doing nothing to him, and his whole character is based on it. Christa is boring. For being in the top 10 she sure seems to do very little that isn't being useless. Ymir is getting better, and seems less obsessed with Christa. Bert and Ernie are literally only interesting because of what they know - otherwise they are boring with their trait being the recent breakdowns. I barely remember Connie. What makes him so deep? All I remember is that him and Sasha are both from rural places. Where in the world did you get the idea that Jean sabotaged Eren's gear? And it didn't seem like Jean continued to hold any deep grudges against Eren ever since they stopped being trainees. And Reiner's whole inner conflict has been apparent for much longer than just this most recent chapter. Jean is also one of the only characters to show any actual development. It's not a coincidence that so many posters have commented on Eren/Mikasa being one-note compared with the other characters (though I'll agree with the one poster who mentioned our outlook on Eren being colored by the fact that he's been on the warpath for the past several chapters that have lasted about half a year in real time; he had some interesting inner thoughts during the whole forest chase scene with respect to trusting his comrades and what have you).
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Aug 8, 2013 05:45
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: Is it wrong to want to use this to gently caress with people? I can see this image causing people to get really, really mad. It's brilliant and hilarious. It's so obviously a joke page but there's probably no end to people who would believe it's a real part of a chapter. Eh, who am I kidding? I'm just gonna save it to some folder and forget about it.
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Aug 8, 2013 06:11
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: Why the discrimination against Sasha? 
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Aug 8, 2013 06:17
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: Never wastes an opportunity to give Mikasa rock hard hyper-defined abs, does he?
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Aug 8, 2013 06:20
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of bees posted:Don't forget that previously Ymir said she had been a titan for about 60 years. So either what she stole allowed her to become human again, or the flashback with Bert and Ernie happened a looooong time ago. Yeah, I'm feeling pretty sure Ymir was a (unintelligent) titan, and eating Bert's comrade somehow stole the ability to turn into a human and restored full intelligence. That seems to just perfectly reconcile with her certainty that if she went to Bert's village she'd be eaten; they want it back.
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Aug 8, 2013 06:39
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: RubberLuffy posted:Is it wrong to want to use this to gently caress with people? I can see this image causing people to get really, really mad. It's brilliant and hilarious. It's so obviously a joke page but there's probably no end to people who would believe it's a real part of a chapter.
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Aug 8, 2013 07:02
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By the way, Connie's text says "Leave it to us!"
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Aug 8, 2013 07:26
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: Where can I find more of these?
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Aug 8, 2013 07:58
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Mary Annette posted:Titan-Connie being exactly the same size is the greatest thing.
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Aug 8, 2013 09:43
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I honestly don't know where the Eren hate comes from. Eren has complex emotions http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/c030/41.html and motivations http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/c014/11.html it's just right now he's caught up in the story. You have to remember that at this point in the story it's been about three to four days since he's had to fight Annie, and less than a day since he's found out two people he really thought of as friends and comrades, one of them he really respected, looked up to, and wanted to emulate, turned out to be horrible mass murdering traitors who are directly responsible for the death of his family. They've also kidnapped him. He hasn't been given a lot of time to process his emotions at this point. That's why he asks them on the verge of tears is what they were thinking when he told them his story, because he's feeling extremely betrayed. He opened himself up to all three of them, and they used it against him. That's why he demanded that Reiner not act like a human with regret, because he doesn't want to have to think of them as people or friends anymore, it would make it easier on his emotional state. I suspect the next chapter is going to involve convincing Eren to turn into his titan form to not only protect the rest of the scouts, but to save Bert and Ernie, and he may refuse too, which will definitely move his character forward. I don't think Ymir eating Berrik gave her intelligence back, Eren hasn't had to eat anyone to restore his sanity while using his titan, he had to have Armin intervene and question his motivations. Eren's personal hell would be stuck at home, in the walls, not seeing the world. His father even said "Master this power" so I assume that your titan form is something you can have complete control over, much like Annie showed. Also I'm pretty sure "I stole the power of the titans" just means that she obtained the power to turn into a titan. What's more is this certainly means that Reiner and Berthold's group has a long memory, she's been alive at a minimum for 73-75 years. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Aug 8, 2013 |
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Aug 8, 2013 10:43
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Wait so, chapter 48, Why are people talking about the stuff Ymir said to Christa? I was pretty sure that she was just bullshitting to get Christa to go along with it. I mean, even the basic idea that she could have possibly been being selfish was complete bullshit, which we know because she literally talked with Reiner about the fact that she's likely to get killed by the members of their village if she goes with them.
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Aug 8, 2013 10:45
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't think Ymir's initial argument is supposed to be that funny when translated.  "If you can just ignore that bit, they aren't so bad!"Maybe someday Pixis really could meet the smoking hot lady Titan of his dreams!
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Aug 8, 2013 11:06
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ProfessorProf posted:The latest of Isayama's fake preview splashes: Well, odds were slim in the first place, but I guess that rules out any chance of Mikasa being a human-Titan in the conventional sense.
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Aug 8, 2013 11:20
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Bifauxnen posted:
It makes me wonder about that Titan that mentioned Ymir while trying to keep himself from eating a scout. Maybe she tried to get through to some, and partially succeeded?
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Aug 8, 2013 11:31
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