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Tindahbawx posted:Does CK2+ really neuter Norse or something? I'm finding them hard to have fun with, while at the same time am also reading in this thread how awesomely fun Norse are. Its bemusing. To me they seem like a really weak faction. Yeah, Norse got really heavy nerfs all over the board in CK2+. Also since most Norse counties suck in the start, that means you'll get your rear end kicked even by small counties. Especially in Britain, as they have tons of individual counties with decent infrastructure, and small demesmes get huge bonuses in CK2+.
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Aug 8, 2013 19:58
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Broken Cog posted:Yeah, Norse got really heavy nerfs all over the board in CK2+. Also since most Norse counties suck in the start, that means you'll get your rear end kicked even by small counties. Especially in Britain, as they have tons of individual counties with decent infrastructure, and small demesmes get huge bonuses in CK2+. You can still raid and sacrifice people though, which are the main fun things about playing as Norse. They are a bit too easy in Vanilla, it's trivial to create a huge empire from a single county in two or three generations.
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Aug 8, 2013 20:02
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marktheando posted:You can still raid and sacrifice people though, which are the main fun things about playing as Norse. They are a bit too easy in Vanilla, it's trivial to create a huge empire from a single county in two or three generations. To be honest, it isn't hard to create an empire as anyone really in vanilla. The most annoying change in Ck2+ is the removal of the pagan "become King" conquest mechanic, since most of the counties in Scandinavia absolutely suck technologically and has no infrastructure. It's fine that it should take some effort to take good counties, but when you have to wait for each and every county with a tax value of 4 or less, it get's really boring, really fast. Tldr: Don't play Pagans in Ck2+, it seems balanced around playing Christians.
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Aug 8, 2013 20:06
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Tindahbawx posted:Does CK2+ really neuter Norse or something? I'm finding them hard to have fun with, while at the same time am also reading in this thread how awesomely fun Norse are. Its bemusing. To me they seem like a really weak faction. Yes. Vanilla norse can conquer any coast county, subjugate other pagans once a lifetime or unlimited within a kingdom with the right ambition. Instead they get a crappy conquer neighbour county CB with a four year cool down. The loot also seems to be less in Ck+ but that may just be the overall lower tech levels. The Ck2+ norse clowncar has no wheels.
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Aug 8, 2013 20:23
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Broken Cog posted:To be honest, it isn't hard to create an empire as anyone really in vanilla. The most annoying change in Ck2+ is the removal of the pagan "become King" conquest mechanic, since most of the counties in Scandinavia absolutely suck technologically and has no infrastructure. It's fine that it should take some effort to take good counties, but when you have to wait for each and every county with a tax value of 4 or less, it get's really boring, really fast. It is really just balanced around the fact that there are 600 years of game time. Everyone is slowed compared to vanilla.
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Aug 8, 2013 20:31
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Jazerus posted:It is really just balanced around the fact that there are 600 years of game time. Everyone is slowed compared to vanilla. No, the Norse and other pagans are unquestionably significantly weaker than the "main" faiths in CK2+. That's fine from a simulationist standpoint; after all, the Norse and other pagans didn't last very long into the CK2 time frame. It's lovely from a gamist standpoint, though. If you want to play Norse (or other pagan) and aren't a masochist, CK2+ is basically unusable. It nerfs quite literally every aspect of the pagan playstyle, from raiding to reforming the faith (the latter by heavily nerfing the ability of pagans to wage war and thus vastly increasing the difficulty of maintaining high moral authority).
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Aug 8, 2013 20:41
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Okay, so in my Magyar>Hungary>Carpathia game Emperor Arpad the Noble has just reformed the Tengrii Faith after completely subjugating Italy, the Byzantine Empire and puting Rome to the torch. For some ridiculous reason though the Leader of the newest religion in town is this guy:  What? Surely there were tons of archpriests available that were more appropriate than this loser?
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Aug 8, 2013 20:49
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TjyvTompa posted:I couldn't find an answer to this in the Q&A they did but they did say this: Yeah, you're misreading, sorry. Tech groups are an EU3/4 mechanism which determine the rate at which countries advance in tech. Despite the name, they aren't directly tied to culture or religion. I'd assume that the converter does the simplest thing and just uses the CK2 cultures & religions for provinces. Dikkfor posted:Okay, so in my Magyar>Hungary>Carpathia game Emperor Arpad the Noble has just reformed the Tengrii Faith after completely subjugating Italy, the Byzantine Empire and puting Rome to the torch. ...is your Pope pagan?
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Aug 8, 2013 21:00
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NihilCredo posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3559664 There you go. it sucked before steam and the launchers when you could only download patches through the forums
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Aug 8, 2013 21:20
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PleasingFungus posted:...is your Pope pagan? Nope!  I didn't even know he was a vassal.
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Aug 8, 2013 21:24
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Zurai posted:No, the Norse and other pagans are unquestionably significantly weaker than the "main" faiths in CK2+. That's fine from a simulationist standpoint; after all, the Norse and other pagans didn't last very long into the CK2 time frame. It's lovely from a gamist standpoint, though. If you want to play Norse (or other pagan) and aren't a masochist, CK2+ is basically unusable. It nerfs quite literally every aspect of the pagan playstyle, from raiding to reforming the faith (the latter by heavily nerfing the ability of pagans to wage war and thus vastly increasing the difficulty of maintaining high moral authority). I disagree. It's not a matter of masochism, it's just patience.  Started out as Svithjod and formed Sweden. Went on an invasion of Bulgaria and switched to them (they had medium CA when I invaded, so I was able to revoke everyone's titles and give them to Norsemen). Took Serbia and Croatia from the Byzantines, gave Croatia to my brother. Invaded Portugal (so the New World can be Norse in EU4), lost to the ~40000 troops of mega-Asturias and West Francia, then once they fell apart I invaded Portugal again and took over. Sweden has conquered nearly all of Scandinavia in the meantime. Took Constantinople, which caused the Byzantine Empire to collapse. One of my sons had the audacity to ask to join the Varangian Guard while that war was going on. Croatia invaded Alania and won. The Seljuks have just been chilling out with their doomstack in the middle of the desert, not attacking anyone. The Anglo-Saxons have kicked the Vikings out of England.
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Aug 8, 2013 21:42
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Dikkfor posted:Okay, so in my Magyar>Hungary>Carpathia game Emperor Arpad the Noble has just reformed the Tengrii Faith after completely subjugating Italy, the Byzantine Empire and puting Rome to the torch. The highest ranked priest in your realm becomes head of a reformed faith.
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Aug 8, 2013 21:46
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Unless you're norse, then its YOU.
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Aug 8, 2013 22:01
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Dikkfor posted:
He's doing double shifts, you burnt down his home 
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Aug 8, 2013 22:10
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Sam. posted:The Seljuks have just been chilling out with their doomstack in the middle of the desert, not attacking anyone. I had this happen in my last CK2+ game, to fix it use give_title to give them an appropriate county on the edge of the map and they will go on their usual rampage.
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Aug 8, 2013 22:18
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Rejected Fate posted:He's doing double shifts, you burnt down his home Since the Recession, even the Pope had to get a second job as an intern as a High Priest, and the Tengrists just happened to be hiring.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:02
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Apropos, I've got a landless Ecumenical Patriarch as my vassal as HRE... I just want to destroy the Orthodox Church. How do I do that?
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Aug 9, 2013 00:27
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Pretty sure you can't destroy any of the Abrahamic faiths, only the pagan ones. Even then, you "destroy" them by converting all characters and counties away from their religion.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:31
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I've got no Ecumenical Patriarch and I'm Orthodox and own Constantinople. I can form the title myself but I become a theocracy and game over. How do I fix this.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:34
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My first time going into a republic, might try it in CK2+. Is there anything I should know about the changes to republics in ck2+?
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Aug 9, 2013 00:38
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HenessyHero posted:I've got no Ecumenical Patriarch and I'm Orthodox and own Constantinople. I can form the title myself but I become a theocracy and game over. I believe granting someone the main bishopric in Constantinople will lead to a new Ecumenial Patriarch in short order.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:38
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Zurai posted:I believe granting someone the main bishopric in Constantinople will lead to a new Ecumenial Patriarch in short order. It's definitely owned by someone other than me and they definitely have the money to do it themselves. I'm thinking I need to restore the other bisphorics in the religions tab but I'm not sure.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:46
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HenessyHero posted:It's definitely owned by someone other than me and they definitely have the money to do it themselves. I'm thinking I need to restore the other bisphorics in the religions tab but I'm not sure. Hmm. Try granting that bishop his independence? I know I've had this same problem before and resolved it through fiddling with Constantinople's bishop somehow. Restoring the other patriarchies is definitely not needed, that's for mending the Schism.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:51
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So, any other "CK2 was my first real Paradox game" guys on here? Thoughts on EUIV from a CK2 player's perspective? I get that it's a very different style of game, but it seems like the ability to impose your will on the world is still derived from the power of your monarch, it's just that you no longer have any real control over your monarch or his dynasty. Are you guys picking up EUIV at launch or are you going to wait until the first couple rounds of patches/DLCs? I'm kind of torn at the moment.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:19
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Play the demo
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Aug 9, 2013 01:20
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I have to say, CK2+ seems to also make pagan kingdoms much more stable. In my observer game, in 1200 the kingdoms of Poland, Lithuania, Denmark, Kiev, Volga, and Wallachia had all formed, Poland and Kiev being Slavic, Denmark Norse, Lithuania and Volga Suomenusko, and Wallachia Tengri. With the exceptino of Denmark (which was more the entire of scandinavia minus finland) each of these kingdoms stuck to their de jure territory. Whats more, each of the pagan kingdoms had the same dynasty on the throne in 1200 from when the kingdom was first founded, between 950-1050 for all of them. Denmark in the past had 2 kings of a different dynasty, but they were overthrown by a member of the original dynasty before they died and the rule had reverted back to the founding dynasty. There were no non-founder rulers for the other 5 kingdoms. Whats more apart from wars over Finland, their territory barely changed over the 250 year period. While Western europe was a patchwork of petty kings and dukes trying to rebuild the Karling kingdoms, Eastern europe and Russia was a stable bastion of safety and security. I console-reformed all the faiths, because they were stable enough and centralized enough it made sense regardless of moral authority or holy site ownership. Then the mongols came along and crushed them all save Poland and Denmark, and then starting the process of converting Russia to Tengri. MONGOLS!!!
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Aug 9, 2013 01:20
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ChikoDemono posted:Play the demo While that's generally good advice, I'll add that I posted that after playing about 4 hours of the demo this afternoon, as Portugal and then the Ottomans.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:22
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Getting used to any Paradox game is a process that takes time and the ability to gently caress with the files.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:48
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Leb posted:While that's generally good advice, I'll add that I posted that after playing about 4 hours of the demo this afternoon, as Portugal and then the Ottomans. The Europa Universalis series is about countries, while CK 2 is about people. EU IV has a lot of mechanics CK 2 doesn't (e.g. Colonization, Trade for Non-Merchant Republics, National Ideas, Coalitions, Spheres of Influence) and has mechanics that are very distinct from CK 2. (trade is very different, technology introduces new mechanics to the game rather than just being "Increases X by Y percent") Basically, if you liked the familial politics of CK 2 but didn't like the international politics as much then EU IV probably isn't your cup of tea. If you liked the international politics, then you'll probably enjoy EU IV. Also Monarchs, Presidents, etc. exist simply to show you the strength of your present administration, and you can make it stronger by hiring advisers. There are also events that let you influence your line of succession.
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Aug 9, 2013 02:01
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Playing a vanilla game in preparation for EU4, and have tried really hard to resist my savescumming urges, with a ~99% success rate. My goal has been to work my way up from Duke of Athens to God-Emperor of Rome, but so far, I've hit a hitch, that hitch being that after I successfully declared independence from some poor little girl who ended up becoming Basilea, who I later married and then re-installed as Basilea (that's CK2), the Byzantine Empire has devolved into every John with a Makedon to his name launching their own war for their claim, and I'm powerless to even protect my own lands as all my levies are exhausted and I blew through some 1.2k gold hiring mercenaries pressing my last claim. It sucks, because my current character (I've been absurdly lucky with creating a lineage of Genius ubermensch with, like, never lower than 11 in any stat) was set up to inherit the whole empire finally, but can't even scrounge up the gold to kill his mom.
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Aug 9, 2013 02:27
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So how on earth am I supposed to do anything about the Byzantine empire inherting Lothangaria and West Francia?
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Aug 9, 2013 02:28
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The Mattybee posted:So how on earth am I supposed to do anything about the Byzantine empire inherting Lothangaria and West Francia?  It's the only way to be sure.
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Aug 9, 2013 03:23
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So, I found the former Shia Caliph chilling out in the court of one of my minor vassals in Sweden, any idea on how he ended up there? Managed to convert him to Norse, and he's currently bethrothed to one of my sisters(I had to assassinate all four of his wives first). Let's see if I can't turn the entire Shia Caliphate Norse.
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Aug 9, 2013 03:28
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Zurai posted:No, the Norse and other pagans are unquestionably significantly weaker than the "main" faiths in CK2+. That's fine from a simulationist standpoint; after all, the Norse and other pagans didn't last very long into the CK2 time frame. It's lovely from a gamist standpoint, though. If you want to play Norse (or other pagan) and aren't a masochist, CK2+ is basically unusable. It nerfs quite literally every aspect of the pagan playstyle, from raiding to reforming the faith (the latter by heavily nerfing the ability of pagans to wage war and thus vastly increasing the difficulty of maintaining high moral authority). e: the trick is Offer Vassalization. If you're someone's de jure ruler, or they're a count that borders you of your culture and religion, and they don't hate you, you can offer them vassalization and instantly swallow them up. Cycloneman fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 03:33
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Broken Cog posted:So, I found the former Shia Caliph chilling out in the court of one of my minor vassals in Sweden, any idea on how he ended up there? Frankly I am impressed that you have a Shia Caliphate at all! I have been playing vanilla in anticipation of the converter and, without fail, those poor Shia never get off the ground.
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Aug 9, 2013 03:46
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The Mattybee posted:So how on earth am I supposed to do anything about the Byzantine empire inherting Lothangaria and West Francia? That's not a normal occurrence. Wrt the AI blobbing into huge multi kingdom empires. Wait a generation. It will explode massively, and you can swoop in and take the spoils.
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Aug 9, 2013 03:52
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Got a fun, obscenely lucky game going on at the moment. Started out as the count of Nantes, tried a risky prepared invasion for West Francia, used the free boats to conquer Cornwall and bits of Ireland to increase my chances, while also picking off Brittany. Then, come invasion time, I managed to capture Charles the Bald about a month in, sat on my 100% warscore for 6 months while I sieged everything I could before the other Karling doomstacks arrived. Then Karlings have been deposed in literally every kingdom except Aquitaine -- some random Duke usurped France, but he's weak as poo poo as I now hold about 48% of its land. But some random German family somehow holds all 5 kingdom titles east of France and has formed the HRE. By 910.  Weirdly the Italian king is independent of the others (that's gavelkind for you, I guess), but he only has literally 4 provinces in his entire realm. The vast majority of de jure Italy somehow went with the primary heir who inherited 3 of the other 4 titles and won a war for his claim on the 4th (or something along those lines).More annoying is that Sweden, Norway and Denmark have all formed almost perfectl along de jure lines. Which, of course, means nobody has 3 holy sites to reform the faith. And the HRE with its 60k levies vs. my 18k~ holds both of the other 2. 
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Aug 9, 2013 04:46
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Knuc If U Buck posted:That's not a normal occurrence. I have stabbed so many loving Byzantine emperors and it never explodes. Occasionally Bavaria (West Francia/Burgundy/Lotharingia) breaks off for a bit but it always comes back.
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Aug 9, 2013 05:58
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The Mattybee posted:I have stabbed so many loving Byzantine emperors and it never explodes. Occasionally Bavaria (West Francia/Burgundy/Lotharingia) breaks off for a bit but it always comes back. Well the actual strategy is to stab until you reach someone who everyone hates, and then stop stabbing and let him gently caress things up for a while.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:37
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Is there a king poo poo chancellor running around the corpses of former emperors with his hair on fire and not dropping the balls? He could use a poke, too.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:38
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