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illcendiary posted:I dunno, they're called Blu-rays, not "DVD U"s. More of the blame falls on Nintendo in this case. http://askville.amazon.com/play-Wii-games-GameCube/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=5679164 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061121144721AAKMF0p http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ai_dTYvqQ7ZDYimMD4Qi6nQjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20100630200556AAkchY8 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081217002725AAK6jC6 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081207081516AAT7bIH http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080507171359AAD5zud http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081019164805AAnaTf6 and even in 2010 http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-2-PSOne/Can-you-play-ps3-games-in-the-ps2-system/td-p/733822 http://askville.amazon.com/PS3-games-work-PS2/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=69388359 people are idiots and wii/wii u aren't the real reason as to the wii u problem
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Aug 9, 2013 14:23
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People being dumb doesn't excuse this big of a marketing gaffe. Don't be purposefully thick, this is worse than the typical PS2/PS3 confusion. It's at the point where a ton of people actually think the Wii U is an add-on. It's the same reason Apple chose not to go down the "Drop numbering and name our newest iPhone simply 'iPhone'". They're trying with it the iPad and I'm honestly not sure how it's working out confusion-wise.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:27
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flyboi posted:people are idiots and wii/wii u aren't the real reason as to the wii u problem This stuff in no way excuses Nintendo's part in failing to market the Wii U properly, nor does it show that the confusion isn't a part of the problem (or a part of the problem to a greater degree than for DVDs/Blu-Rays).
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Aug 9, 2013 14:30
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illcendiary posted:People being dumb doesn't excuse this big of a marketing gaffe. Don't be purposefully thick, this is worse than the typical PS2/PS3 confusion. It's at the point where a ton of people actually think the Wii U is an add-on. Apple should do that though and do what the do with their laptops. Very easy to just call it 'iPhone' and then when people are trying to ask which iPhone just saying "2012" or "2013". It's different when it's a guaranteed annual refresh.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:33
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The Dave posted:Apple should do that though and do what the do with their laptops. Very easy to just call it 'iPhone' and then when people are trying to ask which iPhone just saying "2012" or "2013". It's different when it's a guaranteed annual refresh. Laptops are a little different in my opinion, because people hold on to those for years (as far as I know). Phones have a higher turnover, and for better or worse the leaps in performance and design differences are more perceptible to consumers than laptop changes. I guess I could just be talking out of my rear end, but the approach to phone naming is justifiable, even if things like the iPhone 5 being a thing even though it's the sixth iPhone are kinda strange to me. Things like laptops and cars can hold a more generic name because of how much longer people hold onto them.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:37
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TaurusOxford posted:So instead they make a machine with hardware that's already outdated with a Gamepad that serves no purpose other than to jack up the price of the whole system to a laughable point. I don't know dude. They completely disregarded "gamers" with the Wii and they ended up selling one of those to just about every human being on the planet. I don't think that's really the problem. This post could have been ripped straight from 2006 if you changed gamepad to Wiimote.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:03
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One and the Same posted:If they rebrand it, they won't just call it the Wii 2- that would be too easy. How about... WiiWii? Or for our Japanese customers, the Wii Ni.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:14
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Modern Day Hercules posted:I don't know dude. They completely disregarded "gamers" with the Wii and they ended up selling one of those to just about every human being on the planet. I don't think that's really the problem. This post could have been ripped straight from 2006 if you changed gamepad to Wiimote. For all the financial success Nintendo got from the Wii, it's obvious that none of that success was long-term. Gamers who felt abandoned by Nintendo obviously aren't going out of their way to buy WiiU(it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the PS4 and Xbone have already outsold the WiiU just in pre-orders), and even if the casual audience knew what WiiU was, they would most likely stick to their .99 cent iOS games rather than shell out 350 dollars for an over-complicated iPad. The whole supposed point of the "U" in WiiU was to remember the core gamer so that we would be enticed to buy the console, yet Nintendo's refusal to acknowledge features that Sony/Microsoft have made standard with their consoles just makes WiiU look like an inferior PS3/360.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:17
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illcendiary posted:It's the same reason Apple chose not to go down the "Drop numbering and name our newest iPhone simply 'iPhone'". They're trying with it the iPad and I'm honestly not sure how it's working out confusion-wise. But with an iPad you can run pretty much any App no matter which version you have, the version have more to do with features rather than capabilities to run certain apps. It's really no different than Sony upgrading the PS3 every few years with a new hard drive and new design.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:36
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Astro7x posted:But with an iPad you can run pretty much any App no matter which version you have, the version have more to do with features rather than capabilities to run certain apps. It's really no different than Sony upgrading the PS3 every few years with a new hard drive and new design. That's not true. Be it through planned obsolescence (though it could be argued that that's with the end in mind of maintaining a baseline of performance) or flat-out lack of capability, apps are released every day that are incompatible with older generation iPads. Same with iPhones. The performance difference between a first-gen iPad and a fourth-gen iPad is pretty massive. Anyway this is kind of a dumb derail so I'll digress re: iPads.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:43
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Ka0 posted:Wouldn't it be funny if nintendo actually made a pokemon mmo like everyone and their dog has been asking for decades, and it didn't turn out as cool as the idea was made to sound? At least they would have tried.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:00
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Toady posted:At least they would have tried. Yeah I mean even if it was a horrible game and bombed hard they get an A for effort and that's what counts
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Aug 9, 2013 16:02
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Bland posted:Yeah I mean even if it was a horrible game and bombed hard they get an A for effort and that's what counts I agre and don't think anyone would hear the end of it because it would be tremendously awful and alienate the primary audience of the title. Like, really, really bad. Pokemon is already an incredibly grindy game when played with/against other people to the point where people built a program to create perfect pokemon for them to compete in pvp with instead of having to spend the uncountable hours to make these critters in game and some people think its a smart idea to add more grinding and make all this server-side?
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Aug 9, 2013 16:14
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flyboi posted:people are idiots and wii/wii u aren't the real reason as to the wii u problem Bullshit, you can't blame the consumer for the confusion they're having with the console. Nintendo has done a horrid job of differentiating the WiiU from the Wii in their advertising and.. really, everything they do. I'd like to say that hindisght is 20/20 but in Nintendo's case, foresight is 20/20 and hindsight is 30/20. I know it's easy as gamers for us to be conceited about what a company should have done but god drat, it's pretty easy to see where Nintendo went wrong, even before the console was released.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:18
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zenintrude posted:Is the problem letters vs. numbers? 1. When Nintendo revealed the console, all they showed was the controller. They didn't show the console itself. People see a controller with the word "Wii" on it, they ignore the "U" and assume it's a controller for the Wii. Then lots of people stopped paying attention right here because their Wii's are covered in a thick layer of dust as it is. 2. When they finally showed the console, it looked pretty much like a Wii. 3. The games the Wii U plays don't look significantly more powerful than games the Wii plays. At first glance, people might not realize they are looking at a new generation of games. 4. A lot of people who own Wiis aren't the type who realize and look forward to console refreshes. EVEN IF they realize the Wii U is a new console, they might not care because their Wii still works and still plays Bowling, Wii Fit and Mario Kart. Nintendo should have just released their console with a completely new name altogether. The Wii was a phenomenon, but it obviously didn't create a brand like Nintendo wants it to have.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:21
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The Wii U isn't the first console of the next generation, it's the last console of the Xbox 360/PS3 generation. I know that's why *I* haven't bought one, because I see it as a "Wii HD". Buying a Wii U feels to me like going out and buying a brand new PS3 right now, in 2013 (I never owned a PS3) -- like investing in hardware that's soon to be obsolete. I always have very clear memories of the literal thick layer of dust that gathered on my Wii between launch Twilight Princess/Wii Sports and Mario Galaxy. Then Mario Kart and then over a year, if I recall correctly, before anything else I wanted to come out. Nothing I've seen or read about Wii U suggests that this time will be any different. If the Gamecube never existed and the Wii had launched in 2001, and then the Wii U had launched in 2006 [there's not really any hardware/technical reason this couldn't have happened), Nintendo would probably be ruling the world right now. Nintendo is 6 years late to the HD party. Hardware isn't everything in the console world, though. Two things matter most: timing, and software. The only way the Wii U will survive now is a surprise left-field casual audience smash like Tetris for the Gameboy or Wii Sports for the Wii. The Marios and Zeldas will only appeal to the hardcore Nintendo fans who will already want the Wii U, but they're a comparatively small number next to the hordes of affluent casual gamers who won't even blink at dropping $300 to play one game, if it appeals to them. Honestly, if I were emperor of Nintendo I'd turn it into something like a Nintendo Ouya, only with Nintendo build quality. I would concentrate on the nostalgic 30-something market and issue HD remakes of classic Nintendo library along with new games in a retro style. I'd also make it extremely appealing and friendly to indie developers. I'd concentrate on nostalgic adults, parents who want cheap child friendly games like they used to play, and making affordable $15 or less games. I would abandon the AAA, 3D, multimillion dollar budget $59.99 game business and leave it to the Microsofts and Sonys and EA/Activisions of the world. I'd play a different game entirely. Imagined fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 16:23
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I think everyone has agreed for a long time that Wii U was a terrible name to give the system, even well before it launched. I'm actually not sure I quite understand the phenomenon of posting the exact same name-criticism for months on end with ever-increasing anger and vehemence among a group of people who ALL already agree with it. The name was an error, but changing it now would be a bigger mistake, as market confusion is a big part of their current problem. The real answer is a marketing push that attaches some relevant messaging to that letter U.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:39
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Imagined posted:The Wii U isn't the first console of the next generation, it's the last console of the Xbox 360/PS3 generation.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:40
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Imagined posted:If the Gamecube never existed and the Wii had launched in 2001, and then the Wii U had launched in 2006 [there's not really any hardware/technical reason this couldn't have happened) If they could've made the Wii U tablet controller in 2006, I guarantee it would've cost a shitload more than it does now. Remember that flip phones were still cutting edge technology back then.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:42
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Supercar Gautier posted:The name was an error, but changing it now would be a bigger mistake, as market confusion is a big part of their current problem. The real answer is a marketing push that attaches some relevant messaging to that letter U. New Tagline: "Wii are ready, are U?" and then show the loving console, slap footage that blows the Wii away (hard I know), and then refer to it as "The New Nintendo Console; WiiU"
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Aug 9, 2013 16:43
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Barudak posted:New Tagline: "Wii are ready, are U?" and then show the loving console, slap footage that blows the Wii away (hard I know), and then refer to it as "The New Nintendo Console; WiiU" Are you implying that this handout isn't the answer to Nintendo's problems?! 
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Aug 9, 2013 16:47
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Barudak posted:New Tagline: "Wii are ready, are U?" and then show the loving console, slap footage that blows the Wii away (hard I know), and then refer to it as "The New Nintendo Console; WiiU" They could just start referring to it as the Nintendo U. It's hardly more ridiculous than Nintendo 64, or Wii for that matter.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:47
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Sir John Feelgood posted:Specs don't affect what generation it's a part of. It's Nintendo's next console. It could be a 32-bit console, it would still be part of the eighth generation. It doesn't really matter what generation on Wikipedia the Wii U gets listed on. Developers, who actually matter, are treating it like it were part of the 360/PS3 generation. They're moving on, and they've already said they're not going to bother porting games designed for the XBO/PS4 to the Wii U, just like they're soon not going to bother making PS3/360 ports. There are two meanings to the word "generation". There is "iteration", in which case this is the 8th generation Nintendo console. However, in terms of hardware, each of those generations heretofore has been at roughly a level of parity. NES = Master System, Genesis = SNES = TG16, N64 = PS1 = Saturn, PS2 = Xbox = Gamecube, and then the Wii broke that pattern entirely. You can repeat that it's "technically 8th generation" till you're blue in the face, but Nintendo's 8th generation is about to get blown out of the water by Microsoft's 3rd generation and Sony's 4th. Imagined fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 16:50
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raditts posted:They could just start referring to it as the Nintendo U. It's hardly more ridiculous than Nintendo 64, or Wii for that matter. The problem is the box will still say WiiU on it which is the big issue. You have to reinforce the WiiU being a name and different with oh my god why am I doing my job about a company I don't work for. I hate you WiiU thread.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:50
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Strange Matter posted:They didn't make a machine with modern components because it would have cost too much money; as a consequence they created the Gamepad in order to make their system unique compared to the more powerful upcoming consoles. 1) An average consumer most likely already has a tablet, and their first instinct on seeing a Wii U advert is to say "I already have a tablet" and not even pay attention to the fact that it's a new console. They're already turned off. 2) The Gamepad is not a user-friendly "everyone can play!" control method like the Wiimotes were, and so you've already slashed out more than half of your predecessor's install base, who only bought into Wii because regular game controls were too complicated for them. Nintendo could not decide if their new console would be for hardcore gamers or for everyone, so they ended up making a console that tried to appeal to both, but without the hardware advancement that the former demands, and the ease of use that the latter demands. They made a console for nobody.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:55
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raditts posted:If they could've made the Wii U tablet controller in 2006, I guarantee it would've cost a shitload more than it does now. Remember that flip phones were still cutting edge technology back then. The tablet controller aside, what I'm saying is a 1920x1080 capable Nintendo console should have launched in 2006/2007. This should have been their second HD generation console. Imagined fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 16:55
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Imagined posted:The tablet controller aside, what I'm saying is a 1920x1080 capable Nintendo console should have launched in 2006/2007. This should have been their second HD generation console. It's a bit difficult to argue that the Wii's technical capability was a mistake, considering that console was so successful. Could it have been successful with HD graphics and a price point putting them at a loss? Sure! But the question of whether that extra investment would pay off wasn't easily forseeable at the time. Nintendo were fresh off the Gamecube, and had concluded that trying to win a processing arms race wasn't going to do them any favours.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:10
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Supercar Gautier posted:It's a bit difficult to argue that the Wii's technical capability was a mistake, considering that console was so successful. The Wii made a lot of money in the short term, yes, but I think it's the definition of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory Really the seeds of Nintendo's current predicament were planted at the moment they decided to go with carts over CDs on the Nintendo 64. They forever left the hardcore gamer audience behind from that moment on. That, in and of itself, would not have been a bad thing, if Nintendo had consciously decided that this was their course -- to be the ur-console for kids and casuals -- and not continued to try to offer the worst of both worlds. Imagined fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 17:18
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Supercar Gautier posted:It's a bit difficult to argue that the Wii's technical capability was a mistake, considering that console was so successful. It's not at all difficult to argue, look at where the Wii U is now. The Wii succeeded for Nintendo in the short term, when they badly needed it to. Yeah, the GC being a failure to everyone BUT Nintendo wasn't going to put them out of business, but it was threatening to take their home console brand and make it almost completely irrelevant. Literally everything about the Wii was a miscalculation in the long term. Nintendo said that HD wasn't going to be important; more HD consoles sold worldwide across two platforms than the Wii sold by itself. Nintendo's online approach has been...archaic if you want to be charitable, and they never saw it as being an important part of their business; PSN and XBox Live are money makers for potentially everyone dipping their hands in that pie. Nintendo set up the Wii to fix a trend that had been existing for years with their consoles: less sold from the SNES on. They didn't target a core market because the money was going elsewhere. For whatever reason, they saw that the Wii had alienated "core" gamers, and they decided that the best way to get them back was to create a supremely uninteresting console, both to core gamers, and to the market they'd created with the Wii. Then they proceeded to not have the games ready at launch that could have potentially gotten those core gamers back into the Nintendo home console brand, while also failing to deliver games for people who got into games with the Wii. On top of that, they marketed it super-extra-double-plus-ungood badly. They did all this while also failing to take into account everything that happened to their competition during the Wii years, and their only excuse is that they literally "did not expect this to be so hard".
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Aug 9, 2013 17:27
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fivegears4reverse posted:Nintendo said that HD wasn't going to be important; All your other points aside, this isn't correct: Miyamoto said recently he wanted to include HD in the Wii but the install base of HD compared to SD was low and they didn't think the transition from SD to HD would be as quick as it was, which they said was due to the cheap prices of HD televisions. Regardless, they had the foresight to see HD would be important but made a judgement call probably based on what Japan owned at the time. That, and if I remember, they tried to get HD running on the Wii but it overheated the system due to the size and it would've increased the price.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:37
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Imagined posted:It doesn't really matter what generation on Wikipedia the Wii U gets listed on. Developers, who actually matter, are treating it like it were part of the 360/PS3 generation. They're moving on, and they've already said they're not going to bother porting games designed for the XBO/PS4 to the Wii U, just like they're soon not going to bother making PS3/360 ports.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:37
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Sir John Feelgood posted:The generation refers to time period. It's the eighth cycle, and the Wii U is part of it. Maybe you should let EA know about that. There's a big difference between "technically" and "practically". The Wii U is technically 8th generation, but it's practically 7th generation. Imagined fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 17:40
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Imagined posted:Maybe you should let EA know about that. Regardless of your semantics, the WiiU is technically part of the "new" generation, just like how the Wii was part of the last. Doesn't change the fact that it's floundering though.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:42
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Bland posted:Yeah I mean even if it was a horrible game and bombed hard they get an A for effort and that's what counts That's clearly what I wrote, and your post isn't boring goon sarcasm.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:45
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Imagined posted:Maybe you should let EA know about that.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:47
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Louisgod posted:Regardless of your semantics, the WiiU is technically part of the "new" generation, just like how the Wii was part of the last. Doesn't change the fact that it's floundering though. If you want to add extra confusion, a lot of companies are referring to the new consoles (PS3/XB1) as Gen4 (fourth generation of 3d consoles) for the purposes of tracking engine power. I don't believe the WiiU is part of Gen4 for those purposes.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:48
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Louisgod posted:All your other points aside, this isn't correct: Miyamoto said recently he wanted to include HD in the Wii but the install base of HD compared to SD was low and they didn't think the transition from SD to HD would be as quick as it was, which they said was due to the cheap prices of HD televisions. Regardless, they had the foresight to see HD would be important but made a judgement call probably based on what Japan owned at the time. That, and if I remember, they tried to get HD running on the Wii but it overheated the system due to the size and it would've increased the price. To back up the fact that Nintendo had this kind of foresight but terrible execution the Gamecube digital AV port actually has 3D capabilities as well as digital 5.1 surround but it was never implemented. I'm going to bet the lack of adoption of component on Gamecube played a big role in Nintendo's choice of not going HD on the Wii.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:51
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I think arguing that the Wii was the root of the problem or a pyrrhic victory is premised on the idea that the very concept of the platform was inherently self-destructive in the long-term, which I don't believe is accurate considering the fact that it's still selling. You'd have to believe that bringing the original Wii's success forward was impossible no matter how their next console was designed/marketed, which seems like a perspective very specific to core gamers rather than the larger market.
Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 17:55
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Sir John Feelgood posted:I suppose that's an interesting distinction to make. But if you want to communicate with human beings and not have to explain your idiosyncratic definitions, you'll refer to it as an eighth generation console, like everyone else does.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:56
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Barudak posted:I agre and don't think anyone would hear the end of it because it would be tremendously awful and alienate the primary audience of the title. Like, really, really bad. Pokemon is already an incredibly grindy game when played with/against other people to the point where people built a program to create perfect pokemon for them to compete in pvp with instead of having to spend the uncountable hours to make these critters in game and some people think its a smart idea to add more grinding and make all this server-side? A "Pokemon MMO" could be as basic as a PVP dueling hub where friends group up for instanced PvE sessions or join existing groups through matchmaking. Nintendo's ability to maintain such an online service seems unlikely, but the stubborn resistance some have against the very idea comes off as downright autistic in a world dominated by online multiplayer.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:58
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