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Many of the following links contain descriptions, pictures, gifs, and videos of violence and torture. Consider them all and/or . All quotes are snippets from the corresponding articles. Read the articles to get the full story. We will start the thread with a primer on the resurfacing of fascist / nationalist / populist groups in a few European countries: RUSSIA http://www.thegailygrind.com/2013/07/25/russian-neo-nazi-groups-tricking-and-torturing-gay-male-teenagers-the-blood-is-on-putin-hands/ quote:Infamous Russian ultra-nationalist and former skin head, Maxim Martsinkevich, known under the nickname “Cleaver” (or “Tesak” in Russian) spearheaded a country wide campaign against LGBT teens using a popular social network VK.com to lure unsuspected victims through personal ads. Mr. Martsinkevich’s numerous and enthusiastic followers started two projects: “Occupy Pedophilyaj” and “Occupy Gerontilyaj”. Allegedly they are trying to identify and report pedophiles using these “movements”. In reality, over 500 online groups have been created inside VK.com social network in order to organize illegal militant groups in every Russian city. Oddly enough their idea of fighting pedophiles targets exclusively male teenagers who respond to the same-sex personal ads and show up for a date. Captured victims are bullied and often tortured while being recorded on video. http://www.thegailygrind.com/2013/0...injuries-video/ quote:These Russian Neo Nazi militant groups have been advised by a top-ranking supremacist to create fake profiles on a popular Russian social network, VK.com, and lure in gay male teenagers in order to torture and humiliate them for being gay. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...wn-8742591.html quote:Gay competitors in next year’s Winter Olympics risk arrest by Russian police if they engage in “propaganda” of their homosexuality, Russia’s Sports Minister has confirmed. This has become the widely-accepted symbol of Occupy Pedophilyaj, and will likely be adopted by other fascist gangs in Russia: GREECE http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/golden-dawn-nazi-anthem_n_3647370.html quote:ATHENS, Greece -- An extreme-right political party in Greece played a Nazi anthem during a charity event Wednesday that authorities had attempted to ban. http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2013/07/far-right-publishing-in-greece-stories-that-teach-people-a-lesson/ quote:The rise of the Golden Dawn and its campaign against groups it perceives to be anti-Greek — leftists, immigrants, gays and lesbians — has encouraged nationalist and far-right sympathisers to spread their ideologies through existing and new media outlets both online and off. http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1-194554-HRW-slams-%20abusive%20-Greek-migrant-roundup quote:The New York-based group timed its statement to coincide with the one-year anniversary of the “epic-scale” crackdown on August 4. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/15/greece-racist-violence-grows_n_3596681.html quote:In the Athens neighbourhood where he lives -- an area full of empty, graffiti-covered shops with "for rent" and "for sale" signs on the windows -- it has become increasingly dangerous to be a dark-skinned foreigner. UNITED KINGDOM For more comprehensive information, see this thread. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-23291268 quote:An explosion which left nails and debris strewn outside a mosque was "an act of terrorism", police have said. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07/21/314803/antiislam-demo-turns-violent-in-uk/ quote:They gathered at a local bar since morning, and shouted expletive slogans about Islam, Allah and Muslims. http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/the-night-the-edl-attacked-me quote:Instead, three guys come to our table. They are all very drunk. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/22/illegal-immigrants-billboard-vans-go-home_n_3634362.html quote:Vans with giant billboards featuring the slogan "go home or face arrest" will be driven around London this week in an attempt to persuade illegal immigrants to leave the country. FRANCE http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/06/frances-flamboyant-shirtless-anti-gay-protesters-are-eyeing-tour-de-france/66172/ quote:"From June 29 to July 21, we will have incredible international visibility to show our fight against Taubira law and gender theory. The idea is certainly not to disturb the race, but to show our colors on French and foreign direct each step. http://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/mariage/homoparentalite/les-hommen-mais-que-veulent-ils-vraiment_372460.html (Apologies for the shaky translation on this) quote:"The group has mounted after March 24, when we heard about Manuel Valls breakers and overflows," said Fabian, one of the founders of Hommen reminiscent FranceTV info hidden in number and only give his nickname. "We realized that despite 1.4 million people in the streets [300 000 according to the police], we would have no answer other than that of violence, that Francois Hollande had nothing to do with democracy" , he insists. ------------ Perhaps I'm seeing ghosts where there aren't any, but I consider fascism extremely dangerous. Over the last couple years I keep reading news reports from European countries of various "populist", nationalist, and fascist movements bubbling up. The gangs hunting down gay kids in Russia prompted me to make this thread - in collecting news reports on this I was shocked to see that those fascist gangs in Russia are state-sanctioned. In Greece, the PM is openly struggling against the Golden Dawn but despite condemnations and attempts to restrict them, the GD keep on building a strong undercurrent of support. Matters over there aren't helped at all by the ongoing economic collapse, a population of immigrants in flux, and struggles with food availability. The UK and France, being more prosperous, haven't had nearly as serious problems with fascism. Hommen is seen as a joke and openly mocked (indeed I had trouble finding information on Hommen that wasn't about them being homoerotic), the EDL and UKIP are holding the favor of seemingly only a small portion of the population and UKIP in particular seems like it may be a flash in the pan. Britgoons please correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't include articles in the above primer, mainly because I have a hell of a time finding news coverage on it, but the protests in Brazil have faced vicious brutality from the state police and state military trying to repress the protests. Not only that, but many Brazilian nationalist groups have been co-opting the protests and have been attacking left-wing protestors. Here is a GBS thread on the protests with many Brazilian and other South American posters commenting on the protests. I'm also told there are "twitchings" in the Romanian political scene - does anyone know more regarding this?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 00:38 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 22:40 |
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Sup thread. I'm a Russian citizen living in Germany and I can probably answer culture-related questions with some accuracy. I'm not very up on very recent stuff, but pre-2001 I can at least give a rough idea. For what it's worth, my German partner seems completely untroubled by the rise of fascist groups in Europe, but Germany is probably the safest place to be in Europe, if you want to avoid fascist gangs. As for the British fascists, they are and will always remain a joke, thankfully. Britain will elect Thatcher but it would never elect Oswald Mosley and thank god for that. I don't think fascism is going to make the sort of wide-spread comeback that would have me fleeing for Canada, but it never really went away, it just bided its time. I'm very upset about the situation in Russia, since it means I cannot go back there without literally putting my life in danger. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about my citizenship, now, I have to formally renounce it in Russia if I want to give it up. weavernaut fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 10, 2013 |
# ? Aug 10, 2013 00:45 |
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You left out Hungary and the growth of Jobbik there. Unless something has changed since the last time I checked.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 00:49 |
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Baroti posted:You left out Hungary and the growth of Jobbik there. Unless something has changed since the last time I checked. Any omissions were gaps in my personal knowledge. Can you or someone else tell us more about Jobbik?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 00:54 |
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In Romania, there has been an increase in support for The New Right, a group which is affiliated with and works with Golden Dawn, and which literally uses 1920s Romanian Fascist iconography in its propaganda. They call for the persecution of immigrants, LGBTQ citizens, and communists, as well as the annexation of Hungary. Unlike Golden Dawn, however, they have been refused registration as a political party and as such are limited to rallies and physical violence against anyone they dislike. Which is, I suppose, technically a better situation.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 00:58 |
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I would add the pervasive oppression and violence against the Roma. It's not new, but in some places it's reaching new extremes and new levels of public acceptability. http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/killing-time-lethal-force-anti-roma-racism The murder of Roma is often not investigated, arson against their camps goes unpunished and even condoned by government officals, and a general feeling when a Roma dies is that he or she must have had it coming to them in some way. They are illegally deported, illegally medicated, sterilized, taxed, imprisoned, fined, etc. But more and more recently they are killed. quote:Such violence often occurs where local and national politicians speak openly of the need to deal with “gypsies,” and appear to condone violent excesses as “understandable.” Perhaps the most notorious example was Italy in 2008. Following arson attacks on Roma camps, then Minister of Interior Roberto Maroni was quoted as having stated, “That is what happens when gypsies steal babies, or when Romanians commit sexual violence,” and Umberto Bossi’s reported response to the outbreaks of mob violence was that “people do what the state can’t manage.”
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:00 |
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I disagree, the UK could go fascist. The media is becoming increasingly right wing and anti immigration. The anti-muslim thing might have flared down a bit recently in the media, but I'm not sure how much of that was to do with public opinion and how much the government has advised the press. The right wing extremists in the UK suffer from an image problem. The image they have is exactly what the vast majority of people in the UK never want to see. All it takes is an influential minority and things might change. There is nothing geographical or racial about fascism. General China fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Aug 10, 2013 |
# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:05 |
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I'll admit that it's been two years since I was last anywhere near the British Isles (I'm an Irish citizen) but the situation didn't seem as bad back then. poo poo.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:08 |
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General China posted:I disagree, the UK could go fascist. The media is becoming increasingly right wing and anti immigration. The anti-muslim thing might have flared down a bit recently in the media, but I'm not sure how much of that was to do with public opinion and how much the government has advised the press. Come now, all British fascism is only a joke, like on Top Gear.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:08 |
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How strong is the National Front in France as a political party/influence?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:09 |
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So, I know Uzbekistan isn't exactly Europe, but political dissidents have been boiled to death as recently as c. 2002 or so. Not to mention that all elections are completely unfair and the current President has been in power since 1999, with the Executive having near-complete power over the Legislative. Yet, at the same time, I think the United States has been using Uzbek bases and such for the 'War on Terror'
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:09 |
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John Nance Garner posted:So, I know Uzbekistan isn't exactly Europe, but political dissidents have been boiled to death as recently as c. 2002 or so. Not to mention that all elections are completely unfair and the current President has been in power since 1999, with the Executive having near-complete power over the Legislative. Isn't Belarus in a similar position with Alexander Lukashenko?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:12 |
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crowfeathers posted:as well as the annexation of Hungary.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:13 |
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Does anyone have any info about antisemitism in the current fascist resurgence? Obviously they've been pretty closely linked historically, but it seems like the scapegoat of the week is either Muslim or gay these days. Has there been any significant Jew bashing or anti-Jewish rhetoric?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:14 |
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ThirdPartyView posted:Isn't Belarus in a similar position with Alexander Lukashenko? I definitley believe you're correct, but I still don't think Lukashenko has boiled anyone to death.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:16 |
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That quote from Maroni reminds of blood libel and other forms of antisemitism. Why does anti-Roma hate still run so deep in Europe compared to antisemitism?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:16 |
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Babylon the Bright posted:Does anyone have any info about antisemitism in the current fascist resurgence? Obviously they've been pretty closely linked historically, but it seems like the scapegoat of the week is either Muslim or gay these days. Has there been any significant Jew bashing or anti-Jewish rhetoric? There has been a lot of antisemitism in Hungary.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:18 |
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weavernaut posted:I'll admit that it's been two years since I was last anywhere near the British Isles (I'm an Irish citizen) but the situation didn't seem as bad back then. poo poo. Can we take this admission to remember when Éamon de Valera sent his sympathy over Hitlers death.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:18 |
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General China posted:Can we take this admission to remember when Éamon de Valera sent his sympathy over Hitlers death. Is this an actuality? I must re-think my opinion of him perhaps...
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:19 |
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Yeah, it's 100% true. De Valera was a piece of poo poo.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:20 |
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Blackbird Fly posted:That quote from Maroni reminds of blood libel and other forms of antisemitism. Why does anti-Roma hate still run so deep in Europe compared to antisemitism? The Nazis killed more Roma than Jews (per capita) and there were no strong Roma voices to speak out against continued discrimination afterwards.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:23 |
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It always strikes me as sickening and ironic that some of the inhabitants of countries that fought tooth-and-nail against the Axis are now saying "hey this fascism thing has always worked historically hyuk hyuk" and deliberately using imagery that evokes the Nazis in their iconography. Case in point, Golden Dawn: They're not even trying to hide this poo poo. Is a generation or two of kids not paying attention to history all it takes for these motherfuckers to dupe Europe again?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:24 |
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Before that there was the Irish response to Fascism in Spain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_(Spanish_Civil_War) General China fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Aug 10, 2013 |
# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:26 |
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Blackbird Fly posted:That quote from Maroni reminds of blood libel and other forms of antisemitism. Why does anti-Roma hate still run so deep in Europe compared to antisemitism? A combination of numbers-- there's only 28,400 Jews in Italy, compared to 250,000 or so Roma, and that the remaining Jews are normally professional and assimilated there. Most lower-class Italian Jews were either killed or left. There is still virulent anti-semitism, it's just of a very different sort. Conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the banks are very common. In Eastern Europe antisemitism is still extremely virulent.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:27 |
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Chamale posted:The Nazis killed more Roma than Jews (per capita) and there were no strong Roma voices to speak out against continued discrimination afterwards. What's your source for this? What I have has 'only' 300,000 of 700,000 Roma and Sinti being killed in the war, while 2/3rd of Jews were.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:31 |
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Brannock posted:I'm also told there are "twitchings" in the Romanian political scene - does anyone know more regarding this? In a nut-shell, the Romanian political system is taking queues from what's going on in Russia vis-a-vis homophobic legislation. Things are nowhere near as wild-west as in Russia on this, but are progressing in a worrying direction nonetheless. At the risk of sounding like an Internet Atheist I feel that some of the blame is shouldered by the Orthodox Church, who's influence can be felt in pressure for such legislation, in their support for far-right parties and in their official declarations that make it clear they see no problem with increasing discrimination. Current News: http://www.hotnews.ro/stiri-esentia...ortodoxa-ro.htm Translating cliff notes version: "7th of June - On the fifth of June a parliamentary commission for constitutional revision has adopted an amendment that changes the legal definition of marriage as being between spouses to the more rigid wording of "between a man and a woman". This amendment was proposed by three MPs from the Liberal party, and backed by the Orthodox Church." ............................... Political Parties & Factions Noua Dreaptă (English: New Right) More or less literal fascists, worship the WWII-era Romanian Iron Guard. You'll see these guys in every counter-protest to Pride Parades and other events where they often mingle with Orthodox Church supporters. Membership is considered low, possibly because they are ridiculously overt in their leanings. crowfeathers posted:In Romania, there has been an increase in support for The New Right, a group which is affiliated with and works with Golden Dawn, and which literally uses 1920s Romanian Fascist iconography in its propaganda. They call for the persecution of immigrants, LGBTQ citizens, and communists, as well as the annexation of Hungary. Unlike Golden Dawn, however, they have been refused registration as a political party and as such are limited to rallies and physical violence against anyone they dislike. Which is, I suppose, technically a better situation. quote:The organization's leader has his own rock group, Brigada de Asalt (The Assault Brigade), which specializes in ultranationalist and far right Romanian legionnaire-oriented songs. Partidul Noua Generaţie - Creştin Democrat, PNGCD; formerly Partidul Noua Generaţie, PNG (English: New Generation Party – Christian Democratic) Fringe party owned by Gigi Becali, "businessman", owner of the FC Steaua Bucarest football club and all-around neanderthal shithead. Could be considered the politically "legitimate" (ugh...) version of the New Right, as they can stand for election and tend to scrape a few percents in every run. Their ideology is pound for pound that of the New Right; an emphasis on ultra-nationalism, the exaltation of the Orthodox Church, your garden variety xenophobia and homophobia, etc... ............................... An interesting note in Eastern European countries is that the Orthodox Church does much to prop-up and legitimize these groups socially, as their views tend to align in a lot of ways. The Orthodox Church is certainly mounting far greater resistence to progressive movements than the churches of Western Europe, with concerted attempts to maintain socially conservative paradigms. Might dig up some actual articles after I get some sleep. KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Aug 10, 2013 |
# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:33 |
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Russia has been heading down the fascist road since the election of Putin. Putin is expected to rule for another 11 years, the government engages in aggressive state capitalism, cracks down on protest, openly engages in homophobia and condones violence against homosexuals. Isn't Russia fascist already?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:40 |
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KazigluBey posted:An interesting note in Eastern European countries is that the Orthodox Church does much to prop-up and legitimize these groups socially, as their views tend to align in a lot of ways. The Orthodox Church is certainly mounting far greater resistence to progressive movements than the churches of Western Europe, with concerted attempts to maintain socially conservative paradigms. The Catholic Church aint doing so well on historical dictators during the 20th century either. Its got all the western european ones- Hitler, Mussolini and Franco. Its also got all the South American ones too.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:45 |
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Blackbird Fly posted:Do the Romanian nationalists attack Székler people? I have not been back to Romania for some years, but I understand that generally Szekler tend to be thought of in the same terms as other native people of Hungarian ancestry, even though that is of course not really accurate on a cultural level. And any far-right organization in Romania is going to be anti-Hungarian as a matter of course.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:46 |
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crowfeathers posted:I have not been back to Romania for some years, but I understand that generally Szekler tend to be thought of in the same terms as other native people of Hungarian ancestry, even though that is of course not really accurate on a cultural level. And any far-right organization in Romania is going to be anti-Hungarian as a matter of course. Do the Hungarian and Romanian far rights basically see each other the same way? It kinda feels like it at times.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:46 |
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DongsMcMurphy posted:It always strikes me as sickening and ironic that some of the inhabitants of countries that fought tooth-and-nail against the Axis are now saying "hey this fascism thing has always worked historically hyuk hyuk" and deliberately using imagery that evokes the Nazis in their iconography. Case in point, Golden Dawn: Greece gave us the gift of democracy, it's only fitting that they get to enjoy making GBS threads all over it. ... It really is shocking how they've gained power. I mean, look at the flags! And the name! Your group can only be called the Golden Dawn if it's a cabal of elves or something.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:48 |
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Brannock posted:Any omissions were gaps in my personal knowledge. Can you or someone else tell us more about Jobbik? Here is a pretty good article on Jobbik, it also has 2 videos, one specifically about Hungary and one is a debate about extremeism in europe: http://www.channel4.com/news/hungary-jobbik-far-right-militias-jewish-congress FairyNuff fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Aug 10, 2013 |
# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:55 |
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DongsMcMurphy posted:It always strikes me as sickening and ironic that some of the inhabitants of countries that fought tooth-and-nail against the Axis are now saying "hey this fascism thing has always worked historically hyuk hyuk" and deliberately using imagery that evokes the Nazis in their iconography. Case in point, Golden Dawn: Hell, it's not like they've ever made any real effort to disguise their devotion to and alignment with the Nazis. This is the official Golden Dawn newsletter from back in the 80s: Obdicut posted:What's your source for this? What I have has 'only' 300,000 of 700,000 Roma and Sinti being killed in the war, while 2/3rd of Jews were. Digging through my notes from the last time I taught a course on the Holocaust, I've got down about 1M Romani in Europe at the start of the Nazi period, of which conservatively at least 130k - 290k died (though of course that number could have been considerably higher). The per capita extermination of Romani varied a lot depending on country and region. The Czech lands (Bohemia-Moravia in Nazi-speak), being directly under Heydrich's heel until his death, was probably the worst as of the prewar population of 13k virtually all died either by police actions or in Birkenau.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 01:55 |
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The Romanian New Right: Portrait is Avram Iancu, a fairly interesting historical figure co-opted by the New Right for various reasons. Anti Marriage Equality Rally. The boy and the girl on the left are dressed in traditional peasants' garbs. Banner translation: Against Homosexuality, For Normality Lair of Shitheads. If you've seen Golden Dawn offices in pictures or news reports, see if you can spot all the similarities! KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Aug 10, 2013 |
# ? Aug 10, 2013 02:00 |
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DongsMcMurphy posted:It always strikes me as sickening and ironic that some of the inhabitants of countries that fought tooth-and-nail against the Axis are now saying "hey this fascism thing has always worked historically hyuk hyuk" and deliberately using imagery that evokes the Nazis in their iconography. Case in point, Golden Dawn:
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 02:02 |
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weavernaut posted:
Well, I've heard that basically every first grade (or thereabouts) gets sent off on a field trip where they learn what Fascism ended up causing, namely some of the concentration camps, and it's pretty much beat into their skulls that Fascism = = Baaaaaad. So I can see why Germany has gently caress all in terms of fascist nutjobs running around, if they weren't dissuaded from it as kids, the government cracked down on anyone showing signs. I'm glad you're safe though! weavernaut posted:I'm very upset about the situation in Russia, since it means I cannot go back there without literally putting my life in danger. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about my citizenship, now, I have to formally renounce it in Russia if I want to give it up. You could always find the Russian Embassy and tell them to sit and spin? I mean, I dunno if that's a thing. But yeah, going to Russia strictly to tell them "I don't want to be a member of your homophobic piece of poo poo country" sounds a bit dangerous.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 02:02 |
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Gorelab posted:Do the Hungarian and Romanian far rights basically see each other the same way? It kinda feels like it at times. Somewhat, yeah. In fact, one of Jobbik's platforms, foreign-policy-wise, is autonomous rule for the Szekler people. The issues between Hungary and Romania go back hundreds of years, so they make good motivation for crazy nationalists.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 02:04 |
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General China posted:The Catholic Church aint doing so well on historical dictators during the 20th century either. Its got all the western european ones- Hitler, Mussolini and Franco. Its also got all the South American ones too. Not contesting that in the least, but while the churches of Western Europe have distanced themselves from national extremism in the last couple of decades the Eastern ones seem to have doubled down. That was largely what I was getting at. e.: Sup crowfeathers, fellow Romanian representing?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 02:05 |
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Obdicut posted:What's your source for this? What I have has 'only' 300,000 of 700,000 Roma and Sinti being killed in the war, while 2/3rd of Jews were. Looking into it I'm finding a wide range of estimates, from 150,000 to 1,500,000 Roma and Sinti deaths, and the high estimates depend on much higher estimates of the prewar Roma population. It's not crucial to my point. Discrimination against "gypsies" is so bad now because of the lack of advocacy and recognition of anti-Roma discrimination in the years after the Holocaust. It remained more acceptable to hate the Roma in occupied Germany after the war, while virulent anti-semites were suspected of being Nazi loyalists. It took until 1979 for West Germany to recognize that persecution of the Roma was racially motivated and their right to reparations.
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 02:09 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 22:40 |
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General China posted:The Catholic Church aint doing so well on historical dictators during the 20th century either. Its got all the western european ones- Hitler, Mussolini and Franco. Its also got all the South American ones too. Didn't most of the Catholic Church leadership also support Salazar for a good part of his reign in Portugal?
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# ? Aug 10, 2013 02:10 |