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Having recently finished Joyland, I wonder if King is going to be able to shoehorn at least one out-of-place passage about how Dick Cheney is evil into every book he writes from here on out.Ornamented Death posted:I would buy Dark Tower rewrites without hesitation. Almost everything King wrote in the first few years after the accident is kind of bad, but he's come back around and I'd like to see what he can do with the series now that he isn't scared he's going to die tomorrow. I might even go so far as to say that King is in the middle of a new renaissance in his career, where being old and wizened had given him the edge that was once given to him by drugs. His stretch in the 90s and early 00s where he was sober/recovering from the car accident were forgettable at best but from Duma Key onward he's been hitting home runs. WattsvilleBlues posted:Hey goons, just wanted to ask opinions on 11.22.63 - worth reading or not? It's really great. It's one of those books that just flies by despite being so long; I read it on my Kindle and was legitimately shocked when I realized I was already almost a quarter of the way through and the main story hadn't even really started, he had only completed his little experiment with the life of his janitor friend. It's also one of the few baby boomer nostalgia pieces about the 60s that I've been able to enjoy because a good amount of the book is about how lovely things were in general at the time, how for every idyllic small town you had an entire countryside of monstrous racism and hate bubbling up from beneath the surface in unpredictable, obscene ways. DirtyRobot posted:What I got with Flagg's death, and specifically its ignobility, was a kind of view into Flagg's subjectivity, but not necessarily for the purposes of sympathy. Flagg's existence across the various worlds of King's fiction is as this Anton Chigurh-like force of chaos. He comes out of nowhere and stirs poo poo up until things fall apart. (Incidentally, related to your point below about King's dual career direction, the whole idea of Flagg as a specifically evil force is actually very conservative: anyone who stirs up dissatisfaction in the masses must be evil!) But part of the point is that Flagg's still just a dude -- y'know, a walkin' dude. He stands in for all those regular assholes that can come in and stir poo poo up at just the wrong time. And he'll never accomplish much beyond that. Mordred, by contrast, is actually more a being of destiny, created by fate and fated to go up against his father. So at the end of the day, for all his mysteriousness, Flagg's just a piece of regular, scummy poo poo, and up against a being like Mordred, he's screwed. Not to mention the entirety of The Stand was about how Flagg was underwhelming. He was good at being mysterious and imposing to individuals but he was a lovely leader and Las Vegas was plagued with all kinds of problems and unrest simply because he wasn't nearly as clever or competent as he wanted people to think. While in the end it was divine intervention that actually killed him, his own cruelty and callousness towards his allies was enough to irreparably cripple him and his army, what with a slighted Trashcan Man sabotaging his airforce and destroying his irreplaceable pilots.
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Aug 10, 2013 06:58
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Having recently finished Joyland, I wonder if King is going to be able to shoehorn at least one out-of-place passage about how Dick Cheney is evil into every book he writes from here on out. I really like this post but there is no getting away from the "Dick Cheney" was evil bit. I'm really looking forward to CBS gradually turning Under the Dome into an actual anti-GOP spielahahahahahaha. Just kidding around. Nevertheless, Chris Christie for Crimson King: this sentence brought to you by my slightly disturbed love of alliteration.
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Aug 10, 2013 07:34
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Not to mention the entirety of The Stand was about how Flagg was underwhelming. He was good at being mysterious and imposing to individuals but he was a lovely leader and Las Vegas was plagued with all kinds of problems and unrest simply because he wasn't nearly as clever or competent as he wanted people to think. While in the end it was divine intervention that actually killed him, his own cruelty and callousness towards his allies was enough to irreparably cripple him and his army, what with a slighted Trashcan Man sabotaging his airforce and destroying his irreplaceable pilots. Glenn giggling and saying "It's just that we made such a BUSINESS of you!" says it all. Though I would argue the "divine intervention" point, as it could be read simply as Flagg's hubris and failure to keep track of his little electricity ball.
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Aug 10, 2013 16:27
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muscles like this? posted:Night Shift is probably his best book of short stories. Wasn't "Survivor Type" in that anthology? Jesus, that still one still makes me a bit queasy.
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Aug 11, 2013 01:02
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Edwardian posted:Wasn't "Survivor Type" in that anthology? Jesus, that still one still makes me a bit queasy. Nah, that's Skeleton Crew which is just as good. Night Shift is: Jerusalem's Lot Graveyard Shift Night Surf I Am the Doorway The Mangler The Boogeyman Grey Matter Battleground Trucks Sometimes They Come Back Strawberry Spring The Ledge The Lawnmower Man Quitters, Inc. I Know What You Need Children of the Corn The Last Rung on the Ladder The Man Who Loved Flowers One for the Road The Woman in the Room
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Aug 11, 2013 01:12
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Edwardian posted:Wasn't "Survivor Type" in that anthology? Jesus, that still one still makes me a bit queasy. I first read that story when I was about twelve and it would keep me up all night if I was dumb enough to think about it around bedtime. The Raft was another one from that collection that had the same effect on me. They just creeped me out and scared me so much, so much utter helplessness and unavoidable doom in both of them
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Aug 11, 2013 01:28
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A lot of his old short stories were extremely bleak. The majority of the ones in Night Shift don't have happy endings.
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Aug 11, 2013 01:31
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His novels too, my father was always surprised when King would allow one of his characters a happy ending, or if the main character made it out of the book alive.
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Aug 11, 2013 01:59
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Oh, God. "The Woman in the Room." I think I first read that one around 13, and it was not even remotely scary to me. Now that I am over 40, and dealing with my own aging parents, it terrifies me. 
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Aug 11, 2013 02:06
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savinhill posted:I first read that story when I was about twelve and it would keep me up all night if I was dumb enough to think about it around bedtime. The Raft was another one from that collection that had the same effect on me. They just creeped me out and scared me so much, so much utter helplessness and unavoidable doom in both of them I love those stories as a kid... "Do You Love?" and "Lady fingers, they taste just like lady fingers" are forever carved into my memory.
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Aug 11, 2013 02:12
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I really need to read his short stories, I take it? Good thing I've got some time to spare the next couple of weeks.
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Aug 11, 2013 02:16
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Taeke posted:I really need to read his short stories, I take it? Good thing I've got some time to spare the next couple of weeks. Yes. His shorts are his best work.
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Aug 11, 2013 02:17
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savinhill posted:His novels too, my father was always surprised when King would allow one of his characters a happy ending, or if the main character made it out of the book alive. The funny thing in that is that he wishes he written the end of The Mist like the movie version.
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Aug 11, 2013 02:27
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muscles like this? posted:Nah, that's Skeleton Crew which is just as good. Night Shift is: It's been years since I read I am the Doorway and it still freaks me the gently caress out whenever something reminds me of it.
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Aug 11, 2013 02:30
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Taeke posted:I really need to read his short stories, I take it? Good thing I've got some time to spare the next couple of weeks. At the very least read Night Shift and Skeleton Crew. The other compilations are a little less consistent, but still have some great stories.
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Aug 11, 2013 02:35
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Night Surf was kind of a dry run of The Stand and super depressing.
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Aug 11, 2013 02:35
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I just finished the part in salem's Lot where Matt does the bravest thing of his life by going upstairs in his house while Susan is downstairs. I was reading on my back deck in the dark by myself and it freak me out. I have read this book too many times to count, but even to this day it messes with my mind. I had to go back in the house and find my wife to keep me company. It might be the only book ever to give me nightmares. Bravo Mr. King. Edit: re-reading this book is almost a form of sadism for me. nate fisher fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Aug 11, 2013 |
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Aug 11, 2013 03:09
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Kind Milkman posted:At the very least read Night Shift and Skeleton Crew. The other compilations are a little less consistent, but still have some great stories. Yeah, Taeke, listen to Kind Milkman and read these two collections. They're classic King at his best and should be required reading for any King fan. muscles like this? posted:Night Surf was kind of a dry run of The Stand and super depressing. Hey, another great short story of his that I forgot about. Another awesome thing about his short story collections is that they usually contain a story or two that tie into one of his popular novels.
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Aug 11, 2013 06:32
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muscles like this? posted:The funny thing in that is that he wishes he written the end of The Mist like the movie version. Well the movie does have a pretty good ending. The main guy has to live forever with just happened.
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Aug 11, 2013 07:33
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savinhill posted:Yeah, Taeke, listen to Kind Milkman and read these two collections. They're classic King at his best and should be required reading for any King fan. I bought them. Thanks for the advice everyone.
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Aug 11, 2013 13:25
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Edwardian posted:Oh, God. "The Woman in the Room." While I can't say for certain that it's literally autobiographical, if I remember right, King's mom died young of lung cancer. Pretty sure the thing with that kid in the Talisman trying to save his cancer ridden mom with a cough syrup induced cross-country trip works the same way. King follows the rule of "write what you know" very well. Whenever they show Riding the Bullet on TV I get this strong sense that the protagonist is a mary sue. Losing your mom (and a single mom?) at a young age must be rough as hell.
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Aug 11, 2013 16:50
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muscles like this? posted:The funny thing in that is that he wishes he written the end of The Mist like the movie version. I read an article on some website about authors who were not just pleased with the film adaptions but grateful to the director/screenwriters. Darabont's ending of The Mist was one of those. I don't remember King coming around to past his initial irritation at the Kubrick version of the Shining. Which makes me feel bad because it's probably on my top ten list of movies ever.
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Aug 11, 2013 16:57
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King was also really really close with his mom, and based on On Writing she seemed like a pretty darn good mom / person. Speaking of short stories, I re-read Dolan's Cadillac in Nightmares and Dreamscapes, and my favourite character is the guy's wife, even though we don't *really* know much about her. But the sort of crazy revenge-obsessed ghost figure the protagonist turns her into, right at the end, pushing the protagonist on, seems like it is somehow based in reality or the protagonists view of her. All we know about her is that she's the type of person who'd go straight to the cops and have no fear testifying against a mafia-type higher up, and there's a line about how the protagonist didn't buy his Nautilus to get in shape--his wife bought it for him. The way it's written emphasizes the point. She was already pushing him on, before this whole revenge thing. I know that doesn't sound like much, but so much of the story is about how regular "soft" people can become hardened under the right circumstances, and what constitutes that hardness. A lot of the middle books of the Dark Tower are about the same thing (e.g. when Roland turns soft Eddie + co into hardened gunslingers). Uh, anyways. Another good story.
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Aug 11, 2013 17:47
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juliuspringle posted:Well the movie does have a pretty good ending. The main guy has to live forever with just happened. I absolutely hated the ending of that movie. I much preferred the ambiguity of the novella.
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Aug 11, 2013 21:08
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iostream.h posted:I absolutely hated the ending of that movie. I much preferred the ambiguity of the novella. I have a hard time understanding any argument in favor of the movie, honestly. The whole "the national guard saves the day!" ending is kind of silly.
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Aug 11, 2013 21:52
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iostream.h posted:I absolutely hated the ending of that movie. I much preferred the ambiguity of the novella. It is fairly unpleasant and could be labeled as "grimdark" maudlin poo poo but when you really want to punch the audience in the nuts it doesn't get better than that. And ending a story ambiguously at Tim Horton's just doesn't have the same feel as a multiple homicide followed by the national guard rolling in with the only lady with the chutzpah to leave that grocery store from hell and go try to save her kids riding by while The Punisher falls to his knees and presumably ends up asking some soldier to blow his brains out. Full confession: I really liked the short story and its ending but the movie being different from it just added to my enjoyment. That and the casting.
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Aug 11, 2013 22:03
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crankdatbatman posted:I have a hard time understanding any argument in favor of the movie, honestly. The whole "the national guard saves the day!" ending is kind of silly. Especially when he explicitly says in the book 'the national guard does not come in and save the day'. I can understand people liking the movies ending, that's kind of the point of the ambiguity in the first place, I just prefer the other, less nihilistic option.
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Aug 11, 2013 22:11
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crankdatbatman posted:I have a hard time understanding any argument in favor of the movie, honestly. The whole "the national guard saves the day!" ending is kind of silly. They didn't save the day. They were cleanup. It just passed on.
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Aug 12, 2013 05:15
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I've only read his Dark Tower series. I tried to read It when I was 15 but it terrified me too much. I think I'm one of the few people who actually thought the final chapter of The Dark Tower was the best possible ending for the books. Plus, I thought Song of Susannah was one of the best books in the series. The only one I thought could do with a trim was Wolves, I had almost 0 interest in the priest's backstory but it just went on and on. Any recommendations for what novels of his to read?
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Aug 12, 2013 14:06
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EmmyOk posted:I've only read his Dark Tower series. I tried to read It when I was 15 but it terrified me too much. I think I'm one of the few people who actually thought the final chapter of The Dark Tower was the best possible ending for the books. Plus, I thought Song of Susannah was one of the best books in the series. The only one I thought could do with a trim was Wolves, I had almost 0 interest in the priest's backstory but it just went on and on. For what it's worth, I thought the ending of the Dark Tower was perfect. It made sense.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:45
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syscall girl posted:I read an article on some website about authors who were not just pleased with the film adaptions but grateful to the director/screenwriters. Darabont's ending of The Mist was one of those. I think the problem with The Shining is that King himself was wrong about the nature of the evil in that book. I really believe King thinks Jack was a victim, mostly a good guy who gets corrupted by the evil in the Overlook. But King was a raging drunk himself at the time, and this is probably how he felt about himself. But Jack is really a loving bad person, who just gets the inhibitions taken off when the Hotel makes him perpetually drunk. That's more Kubrick's version, that the hotel is more releasing the monster inside. If you ever find yourself thinking that Jack Torrence is a good guy, just find the passage where he still gives *some* blame to Danny for the broken arm, years later and while stone cold sober. That dude is an abusive violent rear end in a top hat, and all the liquor does is make it worse.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:48
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EmmyOk posted:I had almost 0 interest in the priest's backstory but it just went on and on. Father Callahan gets that much backstory because he's a character from one of King's first books, 'Salem's Lot. It's also one of the best books he's ever written and a great starting point.
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Aug 12, 2013 15:22
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syscall girl posted:I read an article on some website about authors who were not just pleased with the film adaptation but grateful to the director/screenwriters. Darabont's ending of The Mist was one of those. I don't have a source handy, but I believe King revised somewhat his criticism of Kubrick's Shining following the TV movie adaptation in 1997. I never got to see the second half of the TV movie, but I thought it was decent enough.
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Aug 12, 2013 17:24
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WattsvilleBlues posted:I don't have a source handy, but I believe King revised somewhat his criticism of Kubrick's Shining following the TV movie adaptation in 1997. I never got to see the second half of the TV movie, but I thought it was decent enough. Yeah it was okay. More true to the book, had Jack researching the origins of the Overlook (which if you think about it it's hot trash compared to the way Kubrick handled that) and the whole thing with the boiler which is completely absent from Kubrick's Shining. Couldn't stand the actor they picked for Danny after whoever played him in the first version though. Some relatively terrible casting in that.
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Aug 12, 2013 19:37
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rypakal posted:I think the problem with The Shining is that King himself was wrong about the nature of the evil in that book. I really believe King thinks Jack was a victim, mostly a good guy who gets corrupted by the evil in the Overlook. But King was a raging drunk himself at the time, and this is probably how he felt about himself. But Jack is really a loving bad person, who just gets the inhibitions taken off when the Hotel makes him perpetually drunk. That's more Kubrick's version, that the hotel is more releasing the monster inside. Pretty much all of this is correct. If I'm watching the Kubrick movie and am at all sympathetic with Jack it is because I am a) alone and probably drinking and b) he is far away from Wendy and Danny and I am imagining him completely alone with only his ghosts and demons for company.
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Aug 12, 2013 19:40
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I just finished The Talisman. It's the only non-DT Stephen King book I've read, not counting The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon because I read it 14 years ago and remember nothing about it except... a bear maybe? After I finished the Dark Tower series, a friend of mine recommended The Talisman because of its tie-in with DT. After the first couple hundred pages, I was pretty frustrated that it wasn't a DT tie-in (I realize Black House changes this), but that actually allowed me to start enjoying it for its own merits. I liked the book quite a lot. I thought the characters were very well done. I felt very invested in Jack's relationships with Richard and Wolf, especially. Due to some real life things happening, this book took me forever to read and left me with some questions whose answers I might have just forgotten. How did the talisman end up in the hotel? I feel like this might have been answered - did Sloat lock it away there? Or has it just "always" been there? The talisman is the axis of all worlds, got it. Why was it able to cure Richard, Speedy, and Jack's mom? I was very excited when Jack finally got the thing, but felt a little frustrated by its deus ex machina abilities to make everything better. Was this just a Stephen King "destiny" type thing, or is there a solid answer here? On the matter of the Dark Tower tie-in: are we supposed to assume that the talisman is the Dark Tower stand in of Jack's world? Sort of like the rose in the abandoned lot in "our" world? I realize any of this would have had to be retconned, and I might just have to read Black House. Overall I really enjoyed the book but felt like it got a little murky in the last 50 pages or so, as the talisman solves all of Jack's problems because it's magic/destiny. Although I also enjoyed the last little eastward drive with Jack, Richard, and Wolf's brother.
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Aug 13, 2013 17:29
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rypakal posted:If you ever find yourself thinking that Jack Torrence is a good guy, just find the passage where he still gives *some* blame to Danny for the broken arm, years later and while stone cold sober. That dude is an abusive violent rear end in a top hat, and all the liquor does is make it worse. I don't think Jack is a character that exists in a binary good or evil viewpoint, but is a mostly good person with a huge character flaw, as plenty of people are. It's just that his comes out as violence magnified by alcohol/The Overlook.
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Aug 13, 2013 19:30
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Khizan posted:Father Callahan gets that much backstory because he's a character from one of King's first books, 'Salem's Lot. It's also one of the best books he's ever written and a great starting point. Excellent, I will give it a go! Thanks for the suggestion. I should clarify that I didn't dislike his backstory, it just felt slow because I was so eager to see more of the Wolves and their arrival.
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Aug 14, 2013 00:18
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Also I'd highly recommend reading Jerusalem's Lot. It's a short in the form of a series of letters which is a pretty weird format but it gave me the ole goosebumps so I thought it worked. There is another one (also in Night Shift) called One For the Road that's a good prequel to the actual 'Salem's Lot novel.
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Aug 14, 2013 00:33
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Darko posted:I don't think Jack is a character that exists in a binary good or evil viewpoint, but is a mostly good person with a huge character flaw, as plenty of people are. It's just that his comes out as violence magnified by alcohol/The Overlook. Yeah, his character has a lot of depth. I've been reading Under the Dome recently, and while it's a great read, many of the main characters are just too one dimensional. There is literally nothing to like about Jim Rennie as a person, to the point where I don't see how the townfolk put up with him. Even before the community's world comes crashing down, he's an unbelievable rear end in a top hat. Oh, and he killed his wife. Meanwhile Barbara is just the classic golden boy. Rusty's about the same way. Many of the other characters, like Sammy Bushey, Andy Sanders, and Pete Randolph have much more depth, so it's not everyone. Just really the tip top main characters. After realizing this problem, I wondered if King's problem with characterization really was apparent through other works, but it's definitely not the case with Jack Torrence. Or even Jake Epping, if I remember his name right, from 11/22/63. So it's really just bad in this book. Darko posted:They didn't save the day. They were cleanup. It just passed on. My bad. Admittedly I haven't seen or read either. I'm just going by what I've heard about them.
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Aug 14, 2013 00:58
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