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ded posted:I've never even looked up the conspiracy theory stuff. It was a sea story told to me by a 'special' rider. Likely BS since well it was a sea story and sounded cool. Especially when he said a Russian boat went down a few days later. I was under the impression that a nuke would be generally knowledgeable about those things, that's why I relied on OP being a nuke.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:27
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 03:37 |
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A nuke has to get a qual card filled out for torpedoes, but they have way more poo poo to fill out in the engineering space than in the front of the boat. A nuke pretty much only knows enough to get a signature, which routinely means bribing someone.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:57
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almighty posted:I was under the impression that a nuke would be generally knowledgeable about those things, that's why I relied on OP being a nuke. Nukes do forward quals like everyone else, but they are not weapons department and never have to worry about them. Torpedomen, Firecontrolmen, Sonar Techs, and ~heh~ Deck Div (which is normally one of the above as an LPO) are the guys that only really directly deal with torpedoes in any way. fake edit : quote:Machinist's Mates, Weapons (MM-Weps) – formerly called “Torpedomen” (TM), they maintain the torpedoes and (if carried) guided missiles, plus their launching systems Welp guess they are no longer TMs.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:24
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almighty posted:I was under the impression that a nuke would be generally knowledgeable about those things, that's why I relied on OP being a nuke. 'Nukes' on submarine run the atomic propulsion plant, they have nothing at all to do with any nuclear weapons. I'd never heard the nuclear torpedo theory before anywhere, the theory I'd always seen was that it was a conventional mk 37 anyway. I think the drivetrains are pretty similar. ded posted:All in all a hot run torpedo is one of the most scary things possible, only a fire or getting a torpedo shot at you are more serious events. There's a lot scarier poo poo that can happen aft, pretty much all of which has happened to a Soviet boat at one point: http://web.archive.org/web/20060612210345/http://bellona.no/imaker?sub=1&id=11084#O6 The high pressure steam rupture is the real nightmare generator.
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Aug 9, 2013 08:02
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Snowdens Secret posted:
True enough. I always forget about the poo poo aft since I never really dealt with it.
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Aug 9, 2013 09:10
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I love how many people never went to the engine room. Drill day we always had like 4 drills, and 3 were always in the engine room. We had to have a fire or something just so non nukes had something to do.
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Aug 9, 2013 09:22
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Third World Reggin posted:I love how many people never went to the engine room. Drill day we always had like 4 drills, and 3 were always in the engine room. We had to have a fire or something just so non nukes had something to do. I brought this up with my captain once, in the context of how all our drills seemed to be aft, and that the off-watch coners were essentially uninvolved. Once the one-per-set big fire/flooding drill was done, the coners knew they could go to their racks and ignore all other announcements, and I felt this was building a sense of complacency. However, essentially the only major cone-only drill we could think of was hot runner / Otto fuel spill, and the captain firmly believed this event was never going to happen, not during an inspection drill set and not in real life, and including it in our training plan at the cost of a 'real' drill was stupid. E: I'm going to mention that, yes, there are things like fire control tracking party, torpedo handling etc, but their involvement from off-watch personnel was low and at least on my boat about half the additional watches / labor for each was done by nukes. Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 09:30
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What I know about fire control tracking party is that the sonar teams are boomers are god awful with their old equipment. The two nukes we sent forward with laptops always did better.
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Aug 9, 2013 10:37
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Is that a procedure that can be relied on to work, or is it more of a "this gives you the smallest chance of exploding" last-ditch effort? I'm not familiar with subs, but in aviation a lot of our more extreme emergency procedures (like ditching) don't make any guarantees, it's just what the engineers have calculated to give you the best chances in an extremely lovely situation. So when I read about a case like the Scorpion, I imagine them trying that procedure but it just doesn't work in time. I'm not an expert on the MK-45, so I can't really speak too much to it. Current procedures are designed to work, and the theory-application link is solid and logical, so TODAY, I would argue it's a good bet (I was AWEPS and Peacetime Safety on my boat, so I know a fair bit about torps, if not as much as a TM or ded). As for MK-45, with the battery just causing the torpdeo to go from cold to hot immediately, I'm not sure how much I would trust the electronics to be in good shape. There's a warm-up procedure for a reason, after all.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:24
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Third World Reggin posted:What I know about fire control tracking party is that the sonar teams are boomers are god awful with their old equipment. The two nukes we sent forward with laptops always did better. My best electronic plots operator was an MM (nuke). I'm not bad mouthing my guys, it's just that patterns, logical deductions, etc are a nukes game, and electronic plots especially was really involved with that stuff. Lots of information to process, very quickly. As for coners, our COB had a deep love for nukes, so if drills were aft, coners were up doing cleaning or maintenance. Woe was the person in the rack during aft drills. To be fair, the same went for FCTP and nukes, but nukes being awake didn't seem to involve much change, really.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:28
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During drills where I wasn't needed I always played the game of I'll get up if someone opens my rack curtain, otherwise, gently caress it. This was helpful during ORSE because coners have gently caress-all to do during 90% of that poo poo.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:16
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What does it mean for the torpedo to run hot?
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Aug 9, 2013 15:24
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Put some lipstick and a pretty dress on it.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:37
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For Blue Nose I crawled to the end of a torpedo tube wearing nothing but boxers while I had cold water shot up my rear end with one of those pump and spray bug sprayers.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:23
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Mortabis posted:What does it mean for the torpedo to run hot? The engine starts when you don't want it to. This is slightly different from the batteries just catching fire. I think hot runners have always been pretty drat rare (at least with vaguely modern torpedoes) but battery fires were not unheard of with Cold War torps. Fart Sandwiches posted:For Blue Nose I crawled to the end of a torpedo tube wearing nothing but boxers while I had cold water shot up my rear end with one of those pump and spray bug sprayers. We had a torpedo wire foul the tube door once so they took a torpedoman striker and stuck him in the tube to cut it loose. They shut the breech behind him while he did this. Sacrilage posted:As for coners, our COB had a deep love for nukes, so if drills were aft, coners were up doing cleaning or maintenance. Woe was the person in the rack during aft drills. I've posted on this before, I think, but we had a terrible fore/aft command climate that was almost singlehandedly the work of our HMCM COB. Among other things, he seemed to actively blame nukes for running drills because he was a chain smoker, and the only smokepad was in ASW bay, and it was secured during drill periods. So we'd be running around back aft trying to recover the engine room and he'd be up forward bitching up a storm and building coner resentment. I'm not sure he ever really grasped what the point of drills ever were. In a similar vein, we had issues nearly every time we pulled into port because nuke liberty needed the reactor shut down, but cone liberty didn't, and pretty much only required that the ship be moored and detrashed. So the cone would start staging garbage in the midships p-way and crews mess during the maneuvering watch, and as soon as maneuvering watch was secured there'd be this giant press to carry it out. I say carry, not pass or form a line or anything, because the cone had long since figured out that if you carried a garbage bag off pier to the dumpster, no one really cared if you just didn't come back. The problem being that nukes needed to be able to get fore and aft to relieve the maneuvering watchstanders, bring on shore power, etc. and this detrashing poo poo show cut all access off. Plus, swinging shore power cables is about the one evolution where nukes could use extra muscle and hands, especially in cruddier ports where they're not so much swung as dragged. Complaints were leveed to the COB about this time and time again, how the cone was actively delaying shutdown in their efforts to bolt, but COB didn't stick around for reactor shutdown either, so what did he care? The facts that guys like that were in leadership positions, and that the Navy system put people like that in leadership positions, were primary drivers to me getting out.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:37
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The biggest change in our command atmosphere was when a nuke replaced the ST COB. There was a huge good ol' boys coner club, and that poo poo went right the gently caress away.
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Aug 9, 2013 18:18
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We had similar command climate issues, for other reasons; I've only been on one or two boats where it didn't exist, and it was like walking into the garden of eden. It got so bad with our first COB, when they did the command climate survey right after I showed up, he made everyone do it again under his "technical assistance" since the first set were "corrupted somehow". It took almost a year for that story to get back to squadron and have him fired.
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Aug 10, 2013 00:25
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Is it true that they no longer make nuke COBs? My first COB was a bad-rear end nuke, then my second was a piece of poo poo IC man (he wore the fact he was an IC man, not 'really' a nav-ET as some sort of retard badge of pride), then another Nav-ET. It sounded like the best you can do submarine wise as a nuke is now EDMC.
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Aug 10, 2013 14:16
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ProfessorBooty posted:Is it true that they no longer make nuke COBs? My first COB was a bad-rear end nuke, then my second was a piece of poo poo IC man (he wore the fact he was an IC man, not 'really' a nav-ET as some sort of retard badge of pride), then another Nav-ET. It sounded like the best you can do submarine wise as a nuke is now EDMC. As a former ICman I resemble that remark. So, just so I get this right, coners are non Nukes that are on a sub right? And somehow there's like a mafia of these guys? How is it not a retarded idea to let non nukes be in charge of a sub?
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Aug 10, 2013 14:19
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Beria posted:As a former ICman I resemble that remark. Subs are basically split in two. You have the aft end, which is almost entirely engineering, and the front end or "cone" that is everyone that is not engineering. Coners still have to put up with a certain amount of general sub bullshit, but they don't have to put up with nuke bullshit. This builds tension and resentment while the nukes are still on the boat after the cone went on liberty a day and a half early.
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Aug 10, 2013 14:21
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Beria posted:As a former ICman I resemble that remark. No offense intended, but I'm too lazy to look up what an IC man did on the sub, and from what I understand for the most part it was just sound powered phones, which on a little bitty boat can't be too terribly complicated. Oddly enough the horrible command environment on my submarine - the 'stop work and critique everything' captain, the XO that needed everything spelled out until he pretended to understand, and the 'HOOYAH FUCKIN' WARSHIP I HATE NUKES' COB - managed to create a huge rift between the blue shirts and the khaki's, and the coners and the nukes pulled together and got along extremely well.
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Aug 10, 2013 14:33
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ProfessorBooty posted:No offense intended, but I'm too lazy to look up what an IC man did on the sub, and from what I understand for the most part it was just sound powered phones, which on a little bitty boat can't be too terribly complicated. What sub ICmen do: - Receive your complaint that phones don't work - Come back and swap out the affected phones - Do nothing to repair or test the phones, and then bring them right back next time someone complains Also there's really only so much animosity you can have between the E-5 and below, because they so obviously aren't the generators of all the bullshit. At most you have griping over which divisions are 'doing their fair share' of the mess crank watchbill, which on our boat the COB wrote, and would bitch bloody murder about not having enough nukes to grab. That was the limit of his interest in us being perpetually 2-4 men down in each division, that we didn't have bodies to cough up for dishwashing.
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Aug 10, 2013 15:15
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Beria posted:So, just so I get this right, coners are non Nukes that are on a sub right? And somehow there's like a mafia of these guys? How is it not a retarded idea to let non nukes be in charge of a sub? You got me mate; I'm a big fan of "best man for the job". It's what it is. I've had good coner COBs before, it just seems a little more rare; the mafia is a strong force.
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Aug 10, 2013 15:20
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ProfessorBooty posted:No offense intended, but I'm too lazy to look up what an IC man did on the sub, and from what I understand for the most part it was just sound powered phones, which on a little bitty boat can't be too terribly complicated. IC men did the sound powered phones and also took care of the environmental controls such as the Co2 and o2 monitoring. Before they turned them all into ETs my boat had 2 of them. A 3rd and a chief.
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Aug 10, 2013 17:14
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ded posted:IC men did the sound powered phones and also took care of the environmental controls such as the Co2 and o2 monitoring. Before they turned them all into ETs my boat had 2 of them. A 3rd and a chief. Then they'd whine and say but im an ET I can't fix theeeeeeese so the EMs would have to learn how to fix them 
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Aug 10, 2013 17:37
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Alternately if they needed to solder anything as part of a repair, they would whine that they hadn't been to soldering school and someone from Reactor Controls would have to do it. This got passed down when the ET rates merged. Not like I minded soldering but I was too shaky-handed for delicate at-sea jobs, so the one non-alcy in the division got tired of endlessly repairing coner laptop power plugs.
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Aug 10, 2013 18:38
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Third World Reggin posted:Boomer stuff Man I get that it's probably not a big deal to say this and all but I can't help but feel really really really uncomfortable reading anything about how dudes doing SONAR stuff on an SSBN do at their job or whatever. I guess it's public knowledge or whatever, but man that would have been a juicy piece of intel gossip like 20 years ago or whatever. Snowdens Secret posted:We had a torpedo wire foul the tube door once so they took a torpedoman striker and stuck him in the tube to cut it loose. They shut the breech behind him while he did this. If that had been my guy I'd have written up a medal for him because holy loving poo poo gently caress that poo poo. Please tell me that guy was properly rewarded for that poo poo. OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Aug 10, 2013 |
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Aug 10, 2013 21:27
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CISNAZI WEEDHITLER posted:If that had been my guy I'd have written up a medal for him because holy loving poo poo gently caress that poo poo. Please tell me that guy was properly rewarded for that poo poo. dishonorable discharge for dui two weeks later
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Aug 10, 2013 21:46
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CISNAZI WEEDHITLER posted:Man I get that it's probably not a big deal to say this and all but I can't help but feel really really really uncomfortable reading anything about how dudes doing SONAR stuff on an SSBN do at their job or whatever. I guess it's public knowledge or whatever, but man that would have been a juicy piece of intel gossip like 20 years ago or whatever. Really? That happened AT LEAST once a day on the range on our boat; hell, they even convinced our WEPS to do it once, and he was a mouth breathing retard. Maybe our boat was just super broke broke, but no one else seemed very surprised when we would discuss it. You want to talk about scary bullshit, lets discuss doing a lock out through the torpedo tube. Now gently caress THAT poo poo.
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Aug 10, 2013 22:00
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friend of the family DEATH TURBO posted:dishonorable discharge for dui two weeks later Sigh, checks with chart.
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Aug 10, 2013 22:01
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Third World Reggin posted:Put some lipstick and a pretty dress on it. BZ. Somehow, I could tell this was coming. 
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Aug 10, 2013 22:07
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No DUI that I recall, but IIRC a minor stink was made because he was just an E-2 or E-3 striker and the 'appropriate award' was a captain's letter. In practice his real reward was TM A school.
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Aug 10, 2013 22:09
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Sacrilage posted:You want to talk about scary bullshit, lets discuss doing a lock out through the torpedo tube. Hot fish was something I could google, but I'm lost. What's a lock out?
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Aug 10, 2013 22:14
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EBB posted:Hot fish was something I could google, but I'm lost. What's a lock out? Putting divers out through the torpedo tube. Since the tube is definitely not large enough to WEAR the scuba gear in, you have to put it in front of you and push it out before you can put it on. Did I mention it's pitch black, and they have to flood the tube with you in it?
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Aug 10, 2013 22:23
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Sacrilage posted:Putting divers out through the torpedo tube. Since the tube is definitely not large enough to WEAR the scuba gear in, you have to put it in front of you and push it out before you can put it on. Did I mention it's pitch black, and they have to flood the tube with you in it?  Wow. That's.. the scariest loving thing I can honestly imagine. gently caress that poo poo. Those dudes earn that hazardous duty pay, holy crap.
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Aug 10, 2013 22:25
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Well that's definitely something you would need balls for. Is it a SEAL thing, or are other divers sent out that way? If it's not just for insertion of troops, why would you send out a diver that way?
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Aug 10, 2013 22:31
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EBB posted:Well that's definitely something you would need balls for. Is it a SEAL thing, or are other divers sent out that way? If it's not just for insertion of troops, why would you send out a diver that way? Banter
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Aug 10, 2013 22:37
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You would do that sort of stuff pretty near the surface, where divers don't just squish. Told this story before but we put a guy in the escape hatch, no gear, just coveralls, shut and dogged the lower hatch beneath him, and had him undog the upper (seaside) hatch. At test depth. Once he assured us there were no leaks, we of course let him out. (This guy also, no reward.) I got to look up the trunk with an open lower and undogged upper hatch, with (what's wiki say? >700?) feet of water over it. Then we shut and dogged the lower, did some other dumb poo poo, and because hey, why not, popped the upper hatch to see if we could.
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Aug 10, 2013 22:37
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EBB posted:Well that's definitely something you would need balls for. Is it a SEAL thing, or are other divers sent out that way? If it's not just for insertion of troops, why would you send out a diver that way? Only for very good reasons, which for other good reasons, we won't discuss. Just leave it at "lovely day".
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Aug 10, 2013 22:42
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OPSEC, happenstance, gotcha. Still sounds lovely.
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Aug 10, 2013 22:45
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