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Kild posted:I marathoned the manga so I don't quite remember but did the anime skip over the scene where Eren is in a well or is that in a flashback coming up? The post-ED preview of the next episode is recognizably from the "Hanji experiments on Eren" scene in the manga.
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Aug 11, 2013 07:20
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Thoren posted:"Seeya, motherfuckers." This is from many pages back, but what the gently caress katakana is that before the small "o"? I know hiragana and katakana and this thing looks completely foreign to me.
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Aug 11, 2013 12:00
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MustelaFuro posted:This is from many pages back, but what the gently caress katakana is that before the small "o"? I know hiragana and katakana and this thing looks completely foreign to me. It's just a blurry 'do', isn't it?
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Aug 11, 2013 12:30
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Oh, that could be it. But then why the small "o"? Or is that a regular sized "o" I just mistook for being small? And in that case, why not a "-" after the "do"?
MustelaFuro fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Aug 11, 2013 |
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Aug 11, 2013 12:47
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About Monkey Titan 1) One way to explain the titan invasion without a breach and the fact that titan with atrophied limbs got there like he crashed landed could be the fact... he just tossed them over the wall. They might break some legs or heads on the way down, but they regenerate back up good as new! 2) Seriously doubt Monkey Titan is Eren's dad unless he forgot everything when becoming the titan. Monkey Titan was looking at the weapons and gear of a human and was noting how weird the new stuff was. They had 3d gear and razors back when Eren was still around and would still be familiar with them.
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Aug 11, 2013 14:46
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EVIR Gibson posted:About Monkey Titan How do you explain Connie's village, empty of people but without bloodstains or other signs of violence, and with that one Titan that happens to resemble his mother?
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Aug 11, 2013 14:50
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JosephWongKS posted:How do you explain Connie's village, empty of people but without bloodstains or other signs of violence, and with that one Titan that happens to resemble his mother? I don't think there's any doubt that titan was 100% Connie's mother.
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Aug 11, 2013 15:08
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I was just thinking about the speculation some had many pages back about the secret Eren's dad was keeping secret in the basement being a means of returning titans to humans. Plot-wise, this would make a lot of sense. If Dr. Jager had such a cure the royalty would have every reason to want it destroyed. Curing titans would mean a much larger population; a population of people who could potentially utilize titan powers to overthrow them quite easily.
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Aug 11, 2013 15:49
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The titans represent an external threat, the walls represent control. It is how the royalty maintains power. If the titans cease to be a threat because they are all killed/cured/whatever then the royalty/whoever loses their stranglehold over the population. What I want to know is why everything is coming to a head now after one hundred years. The people from titan village attacking the wall, the sasquatch titan performing a recon.
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Aug 11, 2013 17:59
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MustelaFuro posted:Oh, that could be it. But then why the small "o"? Or is that a regular sized "o" I just mistook for being small? And in that case, why not a "-" after the "do"? Simstim posted:What I want to know is why everything is coming to a head now after one hundred years. The people from titan village attacking the wall, the sasquatch titan performing a recon. cooldude2.0 fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Aug 11, 2013 |
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Aug 11, 2013 18:38
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"Titans are a means of control for the royalty" is just about the same as "Titans are an enemy for mankind to unite against" with a slightly different perspective. The idea that Titans are there to unify humanity has already been raised by Pixis and dismissed as naive at best. The center does some pretty horrific stuff to maintain control, but right now it feels like it's ruthless pragmatism and that they don't have a choice really. Armin, the character who's right about these things, seems to agree. After all, he saw his grandfather die in one such horrific act of violence to maintain control, and he doesn't seem to blame those in charge at all. He easily could- a less hyper-rational character probably would, but Armin sees it as the inevitable result of the situation, and takes his anger and sadness and directs it, productively, towards fighting the Titans. That said, someone made the Titans. Someone made the walls. Someone wanted to kill off most of humanity, at the very least. And someone wanted some humans to survive. In this situation, someone has to be really loving mustache twirling evil. I mean, I hope there's a good excuse eventually, but there's never going to be a good enough excuse. Honestly, the only way this story can be a tragedy without a villain is if titans are just like malfunctioning alien technology or something. Bert and Reiner are even worse, though. Besides the hypothetical assholes responsible for the Titans in the first place, those two are the most horrific mass murderers in human history, and even if they didn't "really" know what they were doing the first time, they sure as heck knew the second time. Unless their mission is something like, "all the titans will be turned back into humans if we destroy the king's palace" or something there is no possible justification for what they've done. MustelaFuro posted:Oh, that could be it. But then why the small "o"? Or is that a regular sized "o" I just mistook for being small? And in that case, why not a "-" after the "do"?
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Aug 11, 2013 18:49
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Simstim posted:What I want to know is why everything is coming to a head now after one hundred years. The people from titan village attacking the wall, the sasquatch titan performing a recon. Berthold said something to Eren about them having orders to "break open the walls and kill all the humans inside." The walls acted as a barrier for humans, but the Titan people outside may have only seen it as a stalemate. Something must have changed for whoever gave that order. Speaking of, do we have a concrete hold on how old Bert and Reiner are? I know we're speculating that they're older than they look because of Ymir and her 60 year Titan imprisonment, but do we have a good sense of how old they are? I'm wondering because I wonder if what broke the stalemate was whoever the Titan commanders are discovering how to gain or give someone the colossal Titan form. I thought it was weird that Ymir was made Titan sometime 60 years ago considering there was no active conflict then. Maybe the people inside the inner walls managed to keep certain form types to themselves, which is why they could have as many colossals as they want for the walls, and the outside whoever has been trying to recreate them for a century. Ymir may have been picked for use with whatever they thought would make one because they thought she had the potential to become one, but it went wrong and she gained that odd acrobatic form. To that end, Reiner's armored form might have been a happy accident. Not knowing exactly how to get a colossal Titan would help explain why the walls have so many and the Titan faction only has one. But that hinges on the age thing. If Bert was developed as a bomb but also went crazy for a bit before regaining his senses, it only lines up if that all happened maybe a few months before the initial attack. Bert going crazy would be easy to hide depending on where he did it. Crazy colossal is no more mobile than controlled colossal. They'd want some time both for Bert to recover and to actually plan their attack, but if all that control stuff happened years ago, the there would have to be some other reason to attack now. And there could be any number of other things that changed with Bert being the last of the colossal clan or something. Who knows?
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Aug 11, 2013 19:19
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MustelaFuro posted:Curing titans would mean a much larger population; More people, but also more territory. Right now, they're stuck in a pen and have fuckall resources. If they remember a single drat thing about the world before titans, they would be all over the cure because it means iPhones, cars and luxury they can't even conceive of. MustelaFuro posted:a population of people who could potentially utilize titan powers to overthrow them quite easily. As opposed to the present situation, where two people can literally punch their way into their stronghold and let the titans chew them up. Eiba posted:That said, someone made the Titans. Someone wanted to kill off most of humanity, at the very least. In this situation, someone has to be really loving mustache twirling evil. This is still speculative. We currently have no evidence that humans, or any sentient entity for that matter, created or unleashed the titans. We're assuming humans had a hand in things because it's a common sci-fi trope and we have literally nothing else to go on. Eiba posted:Bert and Reiner are even worse, though. Besides the hypothetical assholes responsible for the Titans in the first place, those two are the most horrific mass murderers in human history, and even if they didn't "really" know what they were doing the first time, they sure as heck knew the second time. Unless their mission is something like, "all the titans will be turned back into humans if we destroy the king's palace" or something there is no possible justification for what they've done. Judging Bert and Ernie from the perspective of the main characters is pretty boring, though. It makes it really easy to miss the underlying dynamic that makes no loving sense. They were very much self-aware during their first attack on the walls, they openly stated that their goal was to eliminate humanity, and they gave it another go after infiltrating the military and becoming best buds with orphans of their own making. Then suddenly, somewhere between their second attack and their big reveal, their goal suddenly changed from exterminate all loving humans to kidnap Eren & Plot-chick and go home. Nothing about any basements, kings or wallbros. Remember, they completely blew their cover and revealed a ton of information about human-titans. Neither they, nor any of their allies, are getting another easy go at the walls. There is absolutely no way the author didn't notice how absurd this sounds, so I'm willing to put money down on an even more  conspiracy than anything proposed thus far.e: as a side note, neither of them seem to be lacking empathy. Either they're operating from a non-human mindset that makes all discussion of ethics moot or their motivations were pretty drat solid from their perspective. e2: onepixeljumpman posted:Berthold said something to Eren about them having orders to "break open the walls and kill all the humans inside." The walls acted as a barrier for humans, but the Titan people outside may have only seen it as a stalemate. Something must have changed for whoever gave that order. This just shifts the above to someone else. Somebody came wanting to exterminate all humans and left wanting the world's angriest titan and a girl who may or may not know something or other.
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Aug 11, 2013 19:23
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I don't know about their goal "suddenly changing" from killing all humans to all the sudden kidnapping Eren. We know from the Annie-titan attempt at kidnapping Eren that Eren was an important goal of the titan-humans from early on. Probably, the kidnapping of Eren is an opportunistic goal. Something like, "we found out this guy is a titan, like us, and we need him in a very desperate way to come to our home village of human-titans because <fill in the blank>."
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Aug 11, 2013 23:13
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Dan7el posted:I don't know about their goal "suddenly changing" from killing all humans to all the sudden kidnapping Eren. We know from the Annie-titan attempt at kidnapping Eren that Eren was an important goal of the titan-humans from early on. Probably, the kidnapping of Eren is an opportunistic goal. Something like, "we found out this guy is a titan, like us, and we need him in a very desperate way to come to our home village of human-titans because <fill in the blank>." Bert and Reiner literally said that they planned to wipe out mankind until they discovered that Eren can transform.
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Aug 11, 2013 23:16
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my dad posted:Bert and Reiner literally said that they planned to wipe out mankind until they discovered that Eren can transform. The mangaka needs to reveal more of the reasons behind the mysteries. The months are going by and we're only getting answers that lead to more questions and speculation. I'm still going with the idea that humans created the titans accidentally when researching some sort of miracle drug or longevity formula. I will also go with aliens visiting the planet and doing experiments.
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Aug 11, 2013 23:32
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In my mind, I'd always chalked up Bertholdt and Reiner's motivation as being some plan they hatched as kids, thinking it'd be a pretty sweet/hilarious thing to do. Also, that Titans were caused by aliens dicking around with humanity for unknown reasons, and that the Titans and humans are locked into some kind of cycle on a scale much longer than 100 years. Basically everything is just one hosed-up, massive game designed solely to produce human suffering.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:06
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DrSunshine posted:In my mind, I'd always chalked up Bertholdt and Reiner's motivation as being some plan they hatched as kids, thinking it'd be a pretty sweet/hilarious thing to do. Also, that Titans were caused by aliens dicking around with humanity for unknown reasons, and that the Titans and humans are locked into some kind of cycle on a scale much longer than 100 years. I've mentioned this before, but everything about the way at least Reiner has been presented has seemed to point towards his character (and presumably by proxy Bertholdt) being reasonable and sympathetic, so I'm still expecting some sort of understandable motive behind his/Bertholdt's actions. It may be hard to imagine such an action being excusable, but (as I've also mentioned before) far more civilians have been killed in actual real-world wars by the side that we retrospectively consider the right/morally justified one.
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Aug 12, 2013 01:14
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Ytlaya posted:I've mentioned this before, but everything about the way at least Reiner has been presented has seemed to point towards his character (and presumably by proxy Bertholdt) being reasonable and sympathetic, so I'm still expecting some sort of understandable motive behind his/Bertholdt's actions. It may be hard to imagine such an action being excusable, but (as I've also mentioned before) far more civilians have been killed in actual real-world wars by the side that we retrospectively consider the right/morally justified one. I don't believe him! He and Bert managed to keep the fact that they're titans from their comrades, and even inflict unimaginable suffering on their fellow humans (if they truly are, in fact, humans). I think that the "breakdown" that Bert has in this chapter is just an act, or another facade of some sort, or he himself is being deceived. Though, rereading it, he does seem to have a heart-to-heart talk with Ymir before the others arrived, so perhaps the third option is likelier. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 02:32
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Reiner's been kinda bad at hiding his emotions and he's had multiple previous conflicts with himself, so I don't think at least he is lying, and I think the last option, that of themselves being deceived, is the most likely one. It's not like that doesn't happen in actual war all the time or anything, soldiers being deceived into doing horrible things for "the greater good" or what-have-you!
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Aug 12, 2013 02:47
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Captain Invictus posted:Reiner's been kinda bad at hiding his emotions and he's had multiple previous conflicts with himself, so I don't think at least he is lying, and I think the last option, that of themselves being deceived, is the most likely one. It's not like that doesn't happen in actual war all the time or anything, soldiers being deceived into doing horrible things for "the greater good" or what-have-you! Yeah, I don't think any of them will be able to get away with the "I was just following orders" defense. They are culpable, and whatever their assertions otherwise, they still made the decision to genocide thousands of people. That aside, I found myself reflecting upon how easily I came to the idea that they could possibly not be humans at all, working for some sort of faction outside the wall. It occured to me that, had the writer been American, it'd have easily become a "War on Terror" allegory, with people raising suspicions and accusing each other -- "Anyone could be a Secret Titan!!  "
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Aug 12, 2013 03:19
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I'm not saying that they can't be held responsible, on the contrary I fully expect at least one of them to die pretty soon unless there's some crazy forgiveness gymnastics about to occur, but there's reasons for them having reactions like they've had recently.
Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 03:44
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Captain Invictus posted:I'm not saying that they can't be held responsible, on the contrary I fully expect at least one of them to die pretty soon unless there's some crazy forgiveness gymnastics about to occur, but there's reasons for them having reactions like they've had recently. I'm pretty sure that everyone wants to capture them alive, if possible. Right now, they're the only two people who know why the entire wall-kicking thing happened. Annie is only tenuously connected and Ymir wasn't even suspected until very recently. And speaking of wall-kicking, Bert and Ernie's plan is getting more and more ludicrous as I think about it. Why did they breach Maria through its strongest, most fortified point? Earlier in the thread, it was speculated that gates are the parts weak enough to be kicked/body slammed, but Annie effortlessly took chunks out of a wall with her bare hands as a side effect. Either they knew about the wallbros and wanted to avoid releasing any, or they were specifically after Shiganshina. After all, there's more than one sacrificial district, but they went after the one with the good doctor's lab in it, at the exact moment he left the city. Something between Trost and the reveal caused the stated goal to change from genocide to kidnapping Eren and him turning into the Angriest Titan is the only thing linking him to Grisha, assuming they didn't know about the key. At present, Bert and Ernie know about the basement and are currently drawing everyone who cares about it into dangerous territory, away from it. The home/family of the protagonist getting flattened by the big bad is so cliche that it doesn't even register, but seeing as Isayama loves loving with the audience, it's possible that there was a lot more significance behind it.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:27
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Errrrr, I think I know at least one, very determined character who wants the two of them very, very dead, ASAP.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:43
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Captain Invictus posted:Errrrr, I think I know at least one, very determined character who wants the two of them very, very dead, ASAP. Two, actually. Don't forget about Eren. The killing of Titans comprise 100% of his thoughts when he's awake and 100% of his dreams when he's asleep / unconscious.
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Aug 12, 2013 05:54
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JosephWongKS posted:Two, actually. Don't forget about Eren. The killing of Titans comprise 100% of his thoughts when he's awake and 100% of his dreams when he's asleep / unconscious. Unless the Titan is Annie, in which case Mikasa and Armin have to kick his poo poo into gear.
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Aug 12, 2013 06:22
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I'm mildly suspicious that Armin is a titan, or has some deeper knowledge. I don't actually believe he is, but if he were it wouldn't shock me. He seemed to know how to get Eren out of his titan dream when he transformed the second time, he's reluctant to kill titans despite not being too scared to hop on titan-Eren's back while he was trying to smash Mikasa, and, I forgot the other suspicious thing... Anyway, even if he were a titan, I don't really expect he'd be on a side opposing Eren or humanity. I don't know, he just seems a bit suspicious to me. I wish I could remember the other thing that I forgot while typing.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:44
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He doesn't have any hidden knowledge, he's just smart. And he's neither the first nor the only person to put two and two together most of the time.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:54
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One thing that keeps bugging me about the series of events is Eren's injection, when would this have occurred? From what I can tell it happened after his mom died and before training, but there is never confirmation that pops came back in that period at all. I hope it's not something stupid like there are a bunch of Eren clones in the basement or something but who knows with this wacky story.
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Aug 12, 2013 17:11
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Toadsniff posted:One thing that keeps bugging me about the series of events is Eren's injection, when would this have occurred? From what I can tell it happened after his mom died and before training, but there is never confirmation that pops came back in that period at all. I hope it's not something stupid like there are a bunch of Eren clones in the basement or something but who knows with this wacky story. Given the way people regularly confuse Mikasa for Misaka (of "A Certain Scientific Railgun"), perhaps we'll eventually get a "Brothers Arc" in this series.
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Aug 12, 2013 17:50
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DrSunshine posted:I don't believe him! He and Bert managed to keep the fact that they're titans from their comrades, and even inflict unimaginable suffering on their fellow humans (if they truly are, in fact, humans). I do have to point out that it's really easy to hide a fact if people can't even consider it being a possibility. People only realized humans could turn into titans only after Eren flat out flopped out of the corpse. Even after that event, there were people that were still not really sure what the hell happened.
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Aug 12, 2013 18:17
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MustelaFuro posted:I'm mildly suspicious that Armin is a titan, or has some deeper knowledge. I don't actually believe he is, but if he were it wouldn't shock me. He seemed to know how to get Eren out of his titan dream when he transformed the second time, he's reluctant to kill titans despite not being too scared to hop on titan-Eren's back while he was trying to smash Mikasa, and, I forgot the other suspicious thing... I think it's safe to say that anyone who appeared in the "everyone is titans" false preview image is most definitely not a titan. On the flip side, if Armin was actually a Titan, it would be great if his titan form looked exactly like the one in that picture. Bobblehead and all.
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Aug 12, 2013 22:33
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LightningKnight posted:I think it's safe to say that anyone who appeared in the "everyone is titans" false preview image is most definitely not a titan.
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Aug 12, 2013 23:00
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People doing horrible things while brainwashed/insane isn't uncommon in manga and anime, and in the cases I've seen, the character almost always blames themselves entirely for a very long time. We know Bertholdt and Reiner have done horrible things intentionally for some greater cause, but I got the impression that they had also killed a lot of people while caught up in titan-insanity, like Ymir's 60 year hiatus from sentience but for an unknown length of time/frequency. They'd blame themselves, but eventually they could become callous as a psychological survival mechanism, and more easily able to justify murdering people to either save more people, save their own people, or whatever mysterious purpose we're waiting to find out about.Broken Knees Club posted:The home/family of the protagonist getting flattened by the big bad is so cliche that it doesn't even register, but seeing as Isayama loves loving with the audience, it's possible that there was a lot more significance behind it. Not saying it wasn't part of their goal to destroy the house, but didn't it happen incidentally from all the building pieces flying around within the first few seconds of the breach? Of course a basement would be one of the most logical places to hide something from giants Flying-PCP fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Aug 13, 2013 |
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Aug 13, 2013 01:01
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Flying-PCP posted:Not saying it wasn't part of their goal to destroy the house, but didn't it happen incidentally from all the building pieces flying around within the first few seconds of the breach? Of course a basement would be one of the most logical places to hide something from giants I wouldn't assume they knew where the house was to begin with, or that the house was where the good doctor stashed his work. Under my  hypothesis, they knew Grisha lived in Shiganshina and was out of town. Flooding the city and the path to it with titans works just as well as physically smashing the house, if not better.
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Aug 13, 2013 01:16
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Broken Knees Club posted:I wouldn't assume they knew where the house was to begin with, or that the house was where the good doctor stashed his work. Under my The timing and location of the attack is certainly interesting, but I wonder what Grisha would have done if they had busted in while he was there? To assume that they needed him to be gone (based on the knowledge they had at the time, so nothing to do with Eren), requires more speculation about some kind of ace he'd have up his sleeve, or some reason why they'd not want to harm him
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Aug 13, 2013 01:51
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Flying-PCP posted:The timing and location of the attack is certainly interesting, but I wonder what Grisha would have done if they had busted in while he was there? To assume that they needed him to be gone (based on the knowledge they had at the time, so nothing to do with Eren), requires more speculation about some kind of ace he'd have up his sleeve, or some reason why they'd not want to harm him Grisha could have simply done what Eren did: calmly walk away with the contents of the basement. There was no way to predict that the house would get smashed or that a titan would show up and eat everyone trying to get near. They probably didn't know where Grisha kept his stash either. It's not a safe assumption that every mad scientist keeps his experiments under his bed, rather than in a separate lab. Also, when Grisha briefly resurfaced to give Eren titanitis, he seemed in a rush, alone, and really, really insistent on Eren getting into the basement. I posit that whatever is down there, Grisha couldn't simply brew up another copy elsewhere.
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Aug 13, 2013 02:09
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Here is an image I found on imgur.
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Aug 13, 2013 02:44
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Nahxela posted:Here is an image I found on imgur. That is all kinds of glorious.
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Aug 13, 2013 06:54
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Captain Invictus posted:I wouldn't say it's safe to say that at all considering this author. ...You have a point there. I suppose I should say it seems really unlikely that they would end up legitimately being Titans after being the butt of a joke like that. Though I suppose if Isayama had gone and made a joke image about how Bert and Ernie sort of resemble the Armored and Colossal titans, we would have all laughed it off as being in good fun and forgot about it until it turned out to be horribly true. drat it, I can't trust anything with this series now.
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Aug 13, 2013 07:06
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