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Peace Gold Love, loving seriously? This is the moral vanguard of America. The dude who puts gold as critical as peace and love? Has anyone checked if Paul is a literal dragon?
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Aug 13, 2013 00:02
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Peace Gold Love, loving seriously? This is the moral vanguard of America. The dude who puts gold as critical as peace and love? You can't invest in peace and love then drive the market through laws and panic about the economy, so gold is better.
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Aug 13, 2013 00:16
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Peace Gold Love, loving seriously? This is the moral vanguard of America. The dude who puts gold as critical as peace and love? No, but he's also refused to take any tests that would rule out being a leprechaun, so we've got options.
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Aug 13, 2013 00:34
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I dunno, the left views everyone but Carter as Liberal Reagan, and the conservatives don't care what anyone else thinks. Nah, the view them more as bad people. Reagan was a specific type of bad, party defining bad.
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Aug 13, 2013 00:41
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It's not exactly news that Rick Santorum intends to make another run at the nomination but he's now adopting a more populist tone, even though it comes off as pretty insincere. The past few weeks he's said the GOP has to stop being the party of the 1% and the GOP needs to pay more attention to the American worker, not just the job creators, which sounds all well and good. But apparently last Thursday he said: So we are just one big, happy, class free society here in the U.S. of A. I think I'm gonna stroll on over to the Koch mansion with a six pack and see if they want to watch the baseball game on their big screen.
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Aug 13, 2013 01:49
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radical meme posted:It's not exactly news that Rick Santorum intends to make another run at the nomination but he's now adopting a more populist tone, even though it comes off as pretty insincere. The past few weeks he's said the GOP has to stop being the party of the 1% and the GOP needs to pay more attention to the American worker, not just the job creators, which sounds all well and good. But apparently last Thursday he said: Holy hell, apparently admitting that some people are at different levels of wealth is  MARXISM to these people.Oh, the GOP. 
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Aug 13, 2013 01:51
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SavageBastard posted:For only 9.99 you can which a semiweekly program about how the Fed is robbing you blind and then buy the pro-freedom swag advertised at the end of it! Well, maybe once I can pay with Bitcoin. quote:I am working on an electronic alternative to PayPal. If you would like to send silver, gold, cash or check, please send them to:
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Aug 13, 2013 01:56
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Oh please turn that into a litmus test for yourselves, GOP. Please force everyone in your movement to get mad about the concept of recognizing the middle class. Oh my, can you imagine the shitstorm when that one leaves the echo chamber? ~2016 General Election Debate~ Jim Lehrer (now in a mobility box with a flashing bulb like Captain Pike): "hmrrrrhmmm uhmmm rrr middle class?" Dem: "blah blah blah middle class, middle class values, security and prosperity for the middle class." Rep: "THERE IS NO MIDDLE CLASS YOU MARXIST!" America: 
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Aug 13, 2013 02:02
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Gen. Ripper posted:Holy hell, apparently admitting that some people are at different levels of wealth is "These people" being. . . Pretty much Rick Santorum, who is living in a world all his own.
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Aug 13, 2013 02:37
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SedanChair posted:Oh please turn that into a litmus test for yourselves, GOP. Please force everyone in your movement to get mad about the concept of recognizing the middle class. Oh my, can you imagine the shitstorm when that one leaves the echo chamber? America doesn't have classes because we're all middle-class, from the homeless to Warren Buffet. And that's why we should have a flat tax.  vv It's a strange phenomenon. My family is fairly lower-class, but I've know people worse off than me who would brag about how poor they were, but still claim to be middle-class. vv Magissima fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Aug 13, 2013 |
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Aug 13, 2013 02:39
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Puella Magissima posted:America doesn't have classes because we're all middle-class, from the homeless to Warren Buffet. And that's why we should have a flat tax. I have known homeless people that insisted that they were in fact middle class.
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Aug 13, 2013 02:49
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radical meme posted:It's not exactly news that Rick Santorum intends to make another run at the nomination but he's now adopting a more populist tone, even though it comes off as pretty insincere. The past few weeks he's said the GOP has to stop being the party of the 1% and the GOP needs to pay more attention to the American worker, not just the job creators, which sounds all well and good. But apparently last Thursday he said: Santorum isn't even in office, right? So he's just wandering around America, setting up speakers and dropping knowledge? Or is he just crashing in anywhere someone has a mic?
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Aug 13, 2013 02:56
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"I see no path to the GOP presidential nomination for any of them," Jennifer Rubin today referring to Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and Rick Santorum. Fair point, these people are not likely to win the Republican nomination. "Make the case that there are few people with as much government executive experience as he has and therefore as much skill in attacking bureaucracy, cutting waste, etc," Jennifer Rubin on August 8 referring to one of the ten things John Bolton needs to do to win the Republican nomination. Hmm, I'm not sure that a position he had to get recess appointed into because he was so grossly unqualified for it counts as experience. "Purely on results, no one tops President George W. Bush when it comes to saving lives," Jennifer Rubin today, a bonus quote I'm throwing into this post for fun, referring to Bush's post-Presidency philanthropy. Her article does not mention his during-Presidency score on that matter.
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Aug 13, 2013 03:00
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Joementum posted:"I see no path to the GOP presidential nomination for any of them," Jennifer Rubin today referring to Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and Rick Santorum. Is Bolton talking about running again?
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Aug 13, 2013 03:07
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Is Bolton talking about running again? Not only is he talking about it but unlike last time he's actually making active moves towards running. And as crazy as it seems, there may be room for a batshit crazy hawk given that most of the batshit crazies talking about running are noninterventionists but a hell of a lot of the batshit crazy base is not.
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Aug 13, 2013 03:08
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Unfortunately for Bolton, Chris Christie is already taking up all of that space in the race.
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Aug 13, 2013 03:14
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I'm struggling to think of anything Jennifer Rubin has ever said that could be construed as either true or useful.Joementum posted:Unfortunately for Bolton, Chris Christie is already taking up all of that space in the race. See, that's such a softball that it's almost demeaning to one's self-esteem to take a swing at it.
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Aug 13, 2013 03:15
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Is Bolton talking about running again? Someone certainly cut Rubin a check to talk him up for 2016. For future reference when you see Jennifer Rubin's name on the byline, all that means is someone wanted something fancier than a press release, but didn't want to spring for a full page ad in the Times. If the money was right you could get her to devote a year's worth of column space to jet-powered dildos or Stalinism.
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Aug 13, 2013 04:15
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Barlow posted:I have known homeless people that insisted that they were in fact middle class. The term "middle-class" in America seems to mean anything from "has slept indoors before" to "is not a baron."
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Aug 13, 2013 04:22
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comes along bort posted:Someone certainly cut Rubin a check to talk him up for 2016. Or both! Jet-powered Dildo-Stalinist Thought is the one true path.
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Aug 13, 2013 04:34
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radical meme posted:It's not exactly news that Rick Santorum intends to make another run at the nomination but he's now adopting a more populist tone, even though it comes off as pretty insincere. The past few weeks he's said the GOP has to stop being the party of the 1% and the GOP needs to pay more attention to the American worker, not just the job creators, which sounds all well and good. But apparently last Thursday he said: 
Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Aug 13, 2013 |
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Aug 13, 2013 06:16
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Joementum posted:"Purely on results, no one tops President George W. Bush when it comes to saving lives," Jennifer Rubin today, a bonus quote I'm throwing into this post for fun, referring to Bush's post-Presidency philanthropy. Her article does not mention his during-Presidency score on that matter. Rubin isn't the only one who's made this claim this year. But how seriously can you take a "liberal democrat" on Fox News? quote:For Africans, that vision traces back to the early years of his presidency. In his 2003 State of the Union Address, Bush introduced the "President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief" (PEPFAR.) Hmm, maybe Bush has saved more lives... I mean, the Carter Center, has only almost eliminated a disease that plagued 3.5 million individuals (dracunculiasis) and averted 1.6 million more cases of poor vision caused by onchocerciasis (1m) and trachoma (600k), but I guess they're not as sexy as HIV so they don't count. So good job Bush!
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Aug 13, 2013 14:31
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Rubin isn't the only one who's made this claim this year. But how seriously can you take a "liberal democrat" on Fox News? While it's been Fox Newsified to a legitimately horrible level, Bush did do a lot to help out Africa during his presidency. It's literally his only real redeeming factor.
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Aug 13, 2013 15:04
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Joementum posted:Unfortunately for Bolton, Chris Christie is already taking up all of that space in the race. Yes but they could team up as the milk mustache/cookie-derived obesity "Milk-and-Cookies" ticket.
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Aug 13, 2013 15:17
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Hmm, maybe Bush has saved more lives... I mean, the Carter Center, has only almost eliminated a disease that plagued 3.5 million individuals (dracunculiasis) and averted 1.6 million more cases of poor vision caused by onchocerciasis (1m) and trachoma (600k), but I guess they're not as sexy as HIV so they don't count. So good job Bush! Hasn't Carter also built enough homes to create a city? I mean hate the guy out of some sort of spite if you want, but you can't deny Carter has set the bar pretty drat high for ex-presidents.
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Aug 13, 2013 17:55
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Gyges posted:Hasn't Carter also built enough homes to create a city? I mean hate the guy out of some sort of spite if you want, but you can't deny Carter has set the bar pretty drat high for ex-presidents. Well it's no fair comparing all his free time to the guys who had to spend four more years running the country 
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Aug 13, 2013 19:21
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Barlow posted:I have known homeless people that insisted that they were in fact middle class. Conversely, i know someone who came back from a $20,000 hunting vacation in Alaska and insisted he was middle class.
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Aug 13, 2013 22:57
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The X-man cometh posted:Conversely, i know someone who came back from a $20,000 hunting vacation in Alaska and insisted he was middle class. I think the problem is that what most people think of as middle class consists of the middle 90% of the income spectrum because in SF/LA/NY/CHI being below the top 5% of income earners nationally but above the 50% mark (hell above the 80-90% mark) usually means you actually are middle class... and that's where most of the population lives. $20,000 may seem like a poo poo load of money to a lot of people, but that's actually the exact amount that my wedding and honeymoon cost my wife and I when we were married... which was actually on the cheep side compared to what I know some of my friends have spent on theirs. And we're planning on taking a huge 2 week European vacation of a lifetime when she graduates from grad school that will be like $15-20k. So if that hunting trip was a weekend... then yeah gently caress him he's rich. If it was for a week or over then he either took a vacation of a lifetime... or he takes those every year or two and is actually rich.
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Aug 13, 2013 23:27
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The phrase "middle class" rolls off of politicians' tongues so smoothly and easily now that it's pretty tone deaf, even for someone like Santorum, to balk at using.A Winner is Jew posted:I think the problem is that what most people think of as middle class consists of the middle 90% of the income spectrum because in SF/LA/NY/CHI being below the top 5% of income earners nationally but above the 50% mark (hell above the 80-90% mark) usually means you actually are middle class... and that's where most of the population lives. $20,000 may seem like a poo poo load of money to a lot of people, but that's actually the exact amount that my wedding and honeymoon cost my wife and I when we were married... which was actually on the cheep side compared to what I know some of my friends have spent on theirs. And we're planning on taking a huge 2 week European vacation of a lifetime when she graduates from grad school that will be like $15-20k. I don't think it has as much to do with too many people being from expensive cities as much as it has to do with a general distaste as identifying oneself as wealthy. Or, I don't think that there are so many people that fit into that category to really contribute to our national delusion re: how many of us are actually middle class. Most of the really rich people I've ever met only acknowledged it unintentionally or really opaquely, and a couple notable examples contrived more working-class personas because their wealth made them uncomfortable. As for that hunting trip, regardless of how often you do it, $20,000 is in fact a lot of money and being able to spend it on a vacation is unimaginable pretty drat wild. Even that kind of money for a wedding seems insane to me, but I know that's something of a different bag. I don't know how your friends get down (how would they identify themselves, class-wise, if they are spending 20k+ on a wedding) but you did mention your mother lives in a house worth over a million, so I figure you probably aren't hurting for money.
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Aug 13, 2013 23:58
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double negative posted:
It's this and that people are generally lovely at spending money (or too good at spending money, rather). If you make around $250,000 per year, your local public school is probably one of the best in the nation and can do at least 90% of what a private school would for about 1/10 of the cost, for example.
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Aug 14, 2013 00:10
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double negative posted:The phrase "middle class" rolls off of politicians' tongues so smoothly and easily now that it's pretty tone deaf, even for someone like Santorum, to balk at using. I would totally call my family and myself upper middle class (i.e. combined annual income between $80-150k) to where we don't really stress over money that much (we still do occasionally and have to watch our spending like a hawk), but none of us drive luxury cars... well my wife drives a smart car which is technically a mercedes but I don't think that counts. We also live in OC which has a high as hell cost of living (seriously $2k for housing a month for 2 people) and I'm well aware that in almost the rest of the nation we'd be considered rich. Also, that 20k wedding was something I saved up for over the course of several years to do, and the vacation will be saved up over a 3 year period. I can safely say my wife and I have never had to worry about money for food which puts us sadly in the top 1/2 of the nation which is actually really loving pathetic since no one should go hungry in the richest nation on earth and why I'm constantly voting to give myself tax increases. e: vvv I totally agree that while I don't consider myself part of the upper class, my families income bracket makes me solidly upper middle class given those numbers. vvv A Winner is Jew fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 01:04
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A Winner is Jew posted:I think the problem is that what most people think of as middle class consists of the middle 90% of the income spectrum because in SF/LA/NY/CHI being below the top 5% of income earners nationally but above the 50% mark (hell above the 80-90% mark) usually means you actually are middle class... and that's where most of the population lives. Anecdotes aside, the wide variety of interpretations is very much the issue with pinning down the definition of middle class. Median personal income in the US is $29,000, while median household income is $50,500, which should help people place themselves relative to each other. But income inequality means that those figures are hugely overshadowed by the ludicrous amount of wealth owned by the upper class. This has given rise to the term upper-middle class, which describes the folks who might have twice the income of the true middle class, but cannot identify with the true upper class due to that disparity. 
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Aug 14, 2013 01:08
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I think it makes more sense to split small business/property owners into a third class between the CEOs and investers and regular workers. Wages income isn't something you can pass on to your kids, so do priveleged workers really have class identity?
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Aug 14, 2013 06:18
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Small business owners would love to be a fully separate class from workers, but they just don't have the security to distinguish themselves. "Small business" hedge funds and gamesmanship aside, taking out a loan to pay yourself a salary is not wealth. However, they and privileged workers certainly do have some kind of distinctive class identity, because they can put themselves in deeper hock in order for their children to learn more arcane class signals. Did you spend a semester in Rome, did you do development work in Ecuador and learn Spanish, etc. Apropos of presidential primaries, expect these topics to be addressed by precisely zero candidates. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 16:52
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Rick Santorum is mad that everyone knows he's badshit insane instead of just faking it.quote:“They say we need to talk less about the culture, because we’re losing. It’s a losing issue for us and therefore we need to talk less . . . I’ll give you an example, when I was running for president, early on . .. I went to a breakfast in New York, some of the wealthiest backers of candidates in New York. And I sat down at this breakfast and they grilled me for a half hour on my moral and cultural positions. I finally stopped and said, ‘You’ve had other candidates up here, I know you have. Did you ask them the same questions?’ They said no. I said, ‘Well, why not, because they have the same position on these issues — at least they say they do — as I do.’ And they looked at me and said, ‘You’re different.’ I said, ‘Why am I different?’ They said, ‘Because you mean it.’ Meanwhile Scott Brown is going to Iowa. It is unclear at this time if he'll be taking the truck as well. Joementum fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Aug 16, 2013 |
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Aug 16, 2013 14:13
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Kaal posted:Anecdotes aside, the wide variety of interpretations is very much the issue with pinning down the definition of middle class. Median personal income in the US is $29,000, while median household income is $50,500, which should help people place themselves relative to each other. But income inequality means that those figures are hugely overshadowed by the ludicrous amount of wealth owned by the upper class. This has given rise to the term upper-middle class, which describes the folks who might have twice the income of the true middle class, but cannot identify with the true upper class due to that disparity. There's also the fact that the cost of living varies greatly within the country. A median household making $100,000 a year in Springfield, IL (COLI: 85.8) is different from one making $100,000 a year in San Diego (COLI: 132.3) and very different from one making $100,000 a year in Manhattan (COLI: 216.7). And so when we talk about a NYC cop making $60,000 a year, everyone outside of the city thinks he's middle-class, and everyone inside the city thinks he's poor. (Source: http://www.infoplease.com/business/economy/cost-living-index-us-cities.html)
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Aug 16, 2013 15:26
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Eschers Basement posted:There's also the fact that the cost of living varies greatly within the country. A median household making $100,000 a year in Springfield, IL (COLI: 85.8) is different from one making $100,000 a year in San Diego (COLI: 132.3) and very different from one making $100,000 a year in Manhattan (COLI: 216.7). And so when we talk about a NYC cop making $60,000 a year, everyone outside of the city thinks he's middle-class, and everyone inside the city thinks he's poor. I like how you picked the number for "5 years" instead of "5.5 years" because the salary abruptly jumps to $91,000 there, which is just about triple the median income in New York City. Even the starting salary is 20% over the median. $90k isn't fabulously never-work-again wealthy, but being in the top 12% of earners in the city sure as poo poo isn't working poor. Feel free to recycle all the typical HENRY delusions though. e: And I should mention that these are filings, if you have a spouse pulling another 60k that would put you somewhere around the top 4% of earners in the city probably. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Aug 16, 2013 |
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Aug 16, 2013 15:50
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I... I actually made the salary number up out of whole cloth as an example. I have no idea what you're talking about in 5 vs. 5.5 years, but obviously I've touched a nerve, so my apologies. I was just trying to show that there are wide variations in cost of living across the country.
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Aug 16, 2013 17:00
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Eschers Basement posted:I... I actually made the salary number up out of whole cloth as an example. I have no idea what you're talking about in 5 vs. 5.5 years, but obviously I've touched a nerve, so my apologies. I was just trying to show that there are wide variations in cost of living across the country. Your guess was actually about right, see here: http://www.nypdrecruit.com/benefits-salary/overview
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Aug 16, 2013 17:15
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Joementum posted:Rick Santorum is mad that everyone knows he's badshit insane instead of just faking it. I know it is very unlikely to happen but I so want to see Santorum be one of the last to drop out of the primary just so I can watch the spectacle.
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Aug 18, 2013 19:32
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