|
The Vancouver Translink Fategate Fiasco (or how about FareGate?  ) continues to broaden from merely a total waste of $100 million dollars into a complete clusterfuck with classist overtones.-Two weeks ago, it was revealed that two of the most popular forms of discounted fare were going to be eliminated because of "fairness". The first is the annual bus pass program, where you get 15% off the monthly rate by agreeing to sign up for a year of automatic withdrawls from your paystub, which kind of seems like a no-brainer to me from a revenue stability perspective, but whatever. The second, though, is just a pure attack on low income people: they're eliminating the discounted books of fare tickets entirely. Now you have to use a reloadable Compass and conform to their stupid loving system, instead of being able to buy tickets at any convenience or drug store in the city. And you have to pay the fare difference, naturally. -This dovetails perfectly into today's latest piece of fuckery: they've just announced that if you pay cash fare on a bus, you will not be able to use your transfer to board Skytrain, period, full stop. No alternative solution is being presented, it's just a nope, sorry, we're completely changing the fare transparency model of the Vancouver transit system without any public consultation, have fun cya bye. The day these gates go live and people are fully confronted with the reality of how much money was wasted making the system both worse AND more expensive, I fully expect people to lose their poo poo.
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:15 |
|
|
Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:How many corporations have CEOs that make so little? Not enough. $319,900/yr + benefits is a fortune and more than enough for anyone anywhere. If you're having any money trouble whatsoever at that level of income, it's because you're some kind of consumerist rear end in a top hat. Don't be loving obtuse, that's $319,000 a year for literally the second most powerful person in the country. The pay scale below that is commensurately steep, and that was his entire point in saying "public service doesn't actually pay that well for most jurisdictions most of the time".
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:17
|
|
|
Now express that wage in terms of the annual profits of corporations who might have something to gain from influencing said powerful person.Fine-able Offense posted:-Two weeks ago, it was revealed that two of the most popular forms of discounted fare were going to be eliminated because of "fairness". The first is the annual bus pass program, where you get 15% off the monthly rate by agreeing to sign up for a year of automatic withdrawls from your paystub, which kind of seems like a no-brainer to me from a revenue stability perspective, but whatever. The second, though, is just a pure attack on low income people: they're eliminating the discounted books of fare tickets entirely. Now you have to use a reloadable Compass and conform to their stupid loving system, instead of being able to buy tickets at any convenience or drug store in the city. And you have to pay the fare difference, naturally. Ottawa did something similar with the on-again-off-again Ecopass program and the short-lived annual fare deal, benching them both in favour of Presto cards that are no cheaper and promised to work at least some of the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:20
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:The Vancouver Translink Fategate Fiasco (or how about FareGate? Well at least they didn't bother to fix that flaw that was identified when they first started construction. The best part of this is that the transfers are probably still valid on the skytrain, you just cannot get past the gate with them. Normally I am pretty forgiving of Translink since most of their really squirrelly crap seems to come from the Provincial government, however someone deserves to swing for this. Hopefully Pivot or someone else has them in court over it shortly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
ZShakespeare posted:You know what would be awesome? If I became the CEO of a company with massive income and a huge debt, and could say "let's just ignore the debt because it was those other guys that did that" and enjoy all the benefits of the income.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:28
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:Don't be loving obtuse, that's $319,000 a year for literally the second most powerful person in the country. The pay scale below that is commensurately steep, and that was his entire point in saying "public service doesn't actually pay that well for most jurisdictions most of the time". CEO pay - the kind that actually influence this discussion and not Joe Startup in Waterloo - is a loving disgrace. I don't want the Public Service using something as immoral and deranged as Wall Street CEO compensation as a benchmark for its own pay structure. If that makes me "obtuse" then I guess I'm fine with that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:31
|
|
|
Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:Relative to what? But but but... free market. We should always look to the private sector to decide how we do things. gently caress reasoning. What Would the Banks Do?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:The Vancouver Translink Fategate Fiasco (or how about FareGate? Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Aug 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:19
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:The second, though, is just a pure attack on low income people: they're eliminating the discounted books of fare tickets entirely. Now you have to use a reloadable Compass and conform to their stupid loving system, instead of being able to buy tickets at any convenience or drug store in the city. And you have to pay the fare difference, naturally. THC posted:Just don't use cash fares? Compass cards will be free. Whats the fuggin problem here Kreez fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Aug 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:19
|
|
|
The faregates are idiotic and the implementation is terrible (some stations have the TVMs behind the faregates, wtf) and translink is poo poo but I think the cards are a good idea. Looking forward to not having to physically pay fares.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Yeah I use Translink like maybe 2, 3 times a year. Sometimes I start my trip on a bus and then use the skytrain. I don't want to pay $5 for the luxury of having a card that I'm going to spend MAYBE $10 on over the course of a year, but I also don't want to have to pay double because I happen to need to take a bus before getting on a skytrain. Cards are fine and I can understand how they'd be great for a good chunk of the population, but not everyone!
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 19:41
|
|
|
Well it's awfully nice that we know how much money Pamela Wallin allegedly misappropriated so we'll be able to get it all ba
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 19:59
|
|
|
flakeloaf posted:Well it's awfully nice that we know how much money Pamela Wallin allegedly misappropriated so we'll be able to get it all ba I think we should audit the auditors to ensure that their audit was on the up and up!
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:04
|
|
|
flakeloaf posted:Well it's awfully nice that we know how much money Pamela Wallin allegedly misappropriated so we'll be able to get it all ba Is it really necessary to engage Deloitte to do this kind of work? Do we not pay civil servants to do these things?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:06
|
|
|
Paper Mac posted:Is it really necessary to engage Deloitte to do this kind of work? Do we not pay civil servants to do these things? The key to an objective third party audit, is that it can't, unfortunately, be someone who is employed by the same company. That being said I don't disagree that it would make way more sense and potentially cost way less if the CRA could do it. Addendum: but all that to say it would be like if a company's shareholders alleged there was a fiscal impropriety and then the company did an internal audit and said "No.", or "Yes." Really, either way it would be hard to hold it up in court that there was no CoI. Team THEOLOGY fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Aug 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:11
|
|
|
Team THEOLOGY posted:The key to an objective third party audit, is that it can't, unfortunately, be someone who is employed by the same company. So how does the Auditor General work?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:13
|
|
|
I'm actually OK with the cost being a wash, based on the theory that visible audits that actually find fault with expense reports discourage others from trying to pull this kind of stuff. Admittedly this is based off of no evidence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:13
|
|
|
Paper Mac posted:So how does the Auditor General work? Notice that the auditor generals reports are frequently the cause of arguments and aren't used in legal proceedings to fry people who dun gently caress up. But more important the AG is like the internal controller for the government. As many companies have. But still those companies engage in a yearly or bi-annum private audit to ensure its veracity.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
I'm okay with Wallin paying back less than the cost of the audit, because it's the principle of it which matters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:23
|
|
|
I lived in London for years and I think Compass can't come into effect soon enough. On the other hand, I think it's ridiculous that discounts are being eliminated when the Oyster system in London provides the very same discounts to students, seniors and disadvantaged. As a student, I was issued a special Oyster card which identified me as such. There must be some information missing here because Translink's story, or whatever is being reported in the news, is madness.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:25
|
|
|
Team THEOLOGY posted:Notice that the auditor generals reports are frequently the cause of arguments and aren't used in legal proceedings to fry people who dun gently caress up. I'm pretty sure they're still considered independent reports? The idea that you can't achieve legitimate independence in the public sector because it's all one "company" is really strange to me- we clearly have lots of independent public entities with non-overlapping interests. Auditing standards are promulgated by the government anyway, so it's not like it's ever possible to achieve an audit that's totally independent of public sector input. I really don't see the need for private sector entities to take profits every time someone in the government fucks up and we need to demonstrate they hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:30
|
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:I lived in London for years and I think Compass can't come into effect soon enough. On the other hand, I think it's ridiculous that discounts are being eliminated when the Oyster system in London provides the very same discounts to students, seniors and disadvantaged. As a student, I was issued a special Oyster card which identified me as such. I think it's two parts Translink being legitimately terrible, and one part "ARGH TRANSLINK  " populism
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I'm okay with Wallin paying back less than the cost of the audit, because it's the principle of it which matters. Yeah, the principle of preventing corruption is good enough that I'm willing to spend money on it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:41
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Cultural Imperial posted:I lived in London for years and I think Compass can't come into effect soon enough. Why?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:44
|
|
|
Because then the poors that can't afford a ticket can't use the public transportation MY TAXES pay for.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:45
|
|
|
HookShot posted:Because then the poors that can't afford a ticket can't use the public transportation MY TAXES pay for. If you believe Translink's projections for how much revenue they will gain from reducing fare evasion which you should not do because they are bullshit, it will still take longer to recoup the cost of the faregates than their projected useful lifecycle. And that doesn't include the $25m cost for allowing the system to accept bus transfers, which, spoiler alert, they will be forced to do by the public backlash from this loving fiasco.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
Yeah, Translink is basically the poster child for bad decisions.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:51
|
|
|
Mostly convenience. My Oyster card was tied to my debit/credit card and would automatically fill up whenever I ran out of credit. Oyster is also great for tourists because it would stop charging you after something like 7 GBP in transit charges. I could also use it for multiple modes of transport, from DLR to underground to bus to overground. And indirectly, I know that Oyster data is valuable in helping Transport for London plan for resource usage to a relatively high degree. All the swiping in and out gives transit planners better information on what routes are being used the most.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:52
|
|
|
Faregates are dumb, RFID cards are not. The cards will allow them to gather extremely detailed information about transit users' habits, which means they can make adjustments to the system that are more effective and economical. They will also be more convenient than cash fares to transit users who have bank accounts, which is like 95% of us probably.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:55
|
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:Mostly convenience. My Oyster card was tied to my debit/credit card and would automatically fill up whenever I ran out of credit. Oyster is also great for tourists because it would stop charging you after something like 7 GBP in transit charges. I could also use it for multiple modes of transport, from DLR to underground to bus to overground. And indirectly, I know that Oyster data is valuable in helping Transport for London plan for resource usage to a relatively high degree. All the swiping in and out gives transit planners better information on what routes are being used the most. That seems like a very good reason to waste $170 million dollars on a system that will not work and will result in horrific lineups, as well as eliminating several popular fare alternatives. THC posted:Faregates are dumb, RFID cards are not. The cards will allow them to gather extremely detailed information about transit users' habits, which means they can make adjustments to the system that are more effective and economical. They will also be more convenient than cash fares to transit users who have bank accounts, which is like 95% of us probably. Is this a joke? Are you joking? You know that volume of ridership is literally the last of the many reasons Translink makes service decisions, right? Also: yeah man gently caress the poor for not having credit/debit cards, let those fuckers hump it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:55
|
|
|
Reminder that the 2012 Translink audit found that $70 million dollars of procurement was inappropriately done without a competitive bidding process. You could literally let every fare evader in the city ride for free for the entire expected useful life of the faregates for that much money. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 20:59
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:That seems like a very good reason to waste $170 million dollars on a system that will not work and will result in horrific lineups, as well as eliminating several popular fare alternatives. gently caress this. I thought I'd try and answer you points but it's really not worth it since you seem to get off on being dick.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:03
|
|
|
I still don't understand why transit isn't free and based on property taxes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:05
|
|
|
cowofwar posted:I still don't understand why transit isn't free and based on property taxes. Look at Rob Ford's rants about the war on cars.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:06
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:Reminder that the 2012 Translink audit found that $70 million dollars of procurement was inappropriately done without a competitive bidding process.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:10
|
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:gently caress this. I thought I'd try and answer you points but it's really not worth it since you seem to get off on being dick. He's not being a dick pointing out that your reasons are selfish and petty (and false) and the bad sides to this far far outweigh whatever small convenience it is for you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:gently caress this. I thought I'd try and answer you points but it's really not worth it since you seem to get off on being dick. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm saying convenience isn't a reason to spend that much money. Guess who agrees with me? The CEO of Translink! The Georgia Straight posted:TransLink CEO Tom Prendergast acknowledged in the authority’s press release that a Smart Card system that collects ridership and service figures “can be done independently of fare gates”. You could have your reloadable Oyster-type card that collects ridership data at a fraction of the cost and without having to redesign stations and create rush hour nightmares, and the loving guy who made the decision admits as much. The stated reason is making middle class people feel better about them fuckin' poors getting a free ride. Edit: ZShakespeare posted:Do you have a link for that, I wasn't able to find anything on Google. Section 5.8.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:12
|
|
|
I don't get the safety angle. If someone is going to break the law by threatening your safety etc. wouldn't they also be willing to break the law by bypassing fare gates? Or is it that people are afraid of other is wheelchairs and rascals?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:15
|
|
|
ZShakespeare posted:I don't get the safety angle. If someone is going to break the law by threatening your safety etc. wouldn't they also be willing to break the law by bypassing fare gates? Or is it that people are afraid of other is wheelchairs and rascals? Ha ha funny story about the faregates: because they don't have the capacity to actually handle the volume of people going through them in the mornings, the transit police have been told to set them to permanently open "at first" so as to handle the traffic. Hint: the traffic will never reduce, so they will never be used, at least in the mornings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:15 |
|
|
Man, I can't wait to see if/when OC transpo adopts then and how they manage to gently caress up worse that Vancouver. Because I can guarantee you one thing, it;s that OC transpo will gently caress it up worse!
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 21:24
|
|