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irongiant posted:Same thing here, bag checked, patted down and given a sweep with a metal detector at the Edmonton depot but nothing at all at Fort Mac or the other stops along the route. Everyone knows terrorists only get onto busses at the biggest cities they can find outside of Toronto.
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Aug 15, 2013 18:48
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To be fair, Terrorists get to the Greyhound Terminal in Toronto and go "poo poo, there is no way we're topping this poo poo" and they give up.
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Aug 15, 2013 18:52
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Rail has to pay for and maintain the thing they drive on whereas busses and trucks don't (at least, no more so then everyone else). Although the actual wear & tear on the rails scales with utilization, inspections and other expensive operations do not, meaning under-utilized track is a fair bit more expensive per trip. So as things stand, yeah, I also wonder why it's still around. If buses and trucks actually had to pay for the additional wear & tear they cause on public roads, I doubt they'll be as economical (to say nothing of environmental costs). That will never happen though. Matching rail's subsidization with that of road transport while also making the network reach more useful places would even things out as well, but that won't happen either. Sure would be nice if either of those things happened though. But they won't.
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Aug 15, 2013 18:53
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JoelJoel posted:Since we seem to love transit chat here, can anyone explain VIA Rail to me? How is it possible to justify charging over $100 each way (if you're smart enough to book in advance) to go from Ottawa to Toronto? Why are we using a century old technology that takes just as long to loving drive? Is there some amazing aspect of the train that I'm missing? Is a crown corp not supposed to provide some kind of, you know, public service? If you book it right it's often cheaper to loving fly along what is apparently the main corridor for VIA. Wifi and over priced whiskey, great. I have a cell phone and can (usually) go a few hours without booze. It's cheaper to bus, rideshare, rent a car, and sometimes even fly. What is the point of even operating VIA at this point? If it's $100 you're definitely doing something wrong. I take the train between Ottawa and Toronto a fair amount and if you book at a reasonable time you can get the escape fare for less than $40.
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Aug 15, 2013 19:13
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JoelJoel posted:Since we seem to love transit chat here, can anyone explain VIA Rail to me? How is it possible to justify charging over $100 each way (if you're smart enough to book in advance) to go from Ottawa to Toronto? Why are we using a century old technology that takes just as long to loving drive? Is there some amazing aspect of the train that I'm missing? Is a crown corp not supposed to provide some kind of, you know, public service? If you book it right it's often cheaper to loving fly along what is apparently the main corridor for VIA. Wifi and over priced whiskey, great. I have a cell phone and can (usually) go a few hours without booze. It's cheaper to bus, rideshare, rent a car, and sometimes even fly. What is the point of even operating VIA at this point? I wonder if it's a scale thing. I find that there are way too few trains to justify being profitable.
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Aug 15, 2013 19:23
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JoelJoel posted:100$ via It's way cheaper than 100$ if you hunt I used to take that leg all the time, and also, you can work the whole way on wifi. Also unlike the plane, unless you go to Billy Bishop, it's right downtown and across from most major business centres and hotels which is nice. Leg room isn't bad either. I often took the 530am leg out of Ottawa over the AC leg for that reason coupled with almost no distraction/bag checks. It's pretty convenient compared to the alternatives. I mean, I suppose you are right there are cheaper options. But there are usually cheaper options but that doesn't mean they are viable for everyone I suppose.
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Aug 15, 2013 19:30
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irongiant posted:Same thing here, bag checked, patted down and given a sweep with a metal detector at the Edmonton depot but nothing at all at Fort Mac or the other stops along the route. I've never seen a metal detectors at the Edmonton depot, as to whether or not I'm getting searched going from Edmonton to Calgary and back it depends on what time I leave. The earlier you leave the less scrutiny you seem to get, though there is a random element in here too.
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Aug 15, 2013 19:32
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The VIA in my hometown laid off the wicket folks and replaced them with a ticket machine. Nice to see the savings are going to good use. Ugh.
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Aug 15, 2013 19:47
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:The VIA in my hometown laid off the wicket folks and replaced them with a ticket machine. They should definitely keep at least one person in each place in addition to the machines.
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Aug 15, 2013 20:04
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Please send me a link for these under $40 trains. Right now the summer super crazy savings have Toronto-Ottawa at $99 each way for business class. I think it's about $80 for a regular. I just tried to book a train from Ottawa Toronto for next weekend, Friday and return Sunday. Not picky about times. All the Web only options were sold out (except one in the middle of the night). For the economic seat (cheapest available with 10 days notice) and with all the fun summer savings it comes to a meager: Fare: $226.00 G.S.T./H.S.T.: $29.38 P.S.T.: $0.00 TOTAL CAD$: $255.38 That is loving insane. Busses have wifi and we all have loving cellphone, something I already mentioned. I suppose the maintenance is one argument, but this and the Toronto-Montreal are the busiest lines, should the fare not be lower? I've even seen last minute deals (never once seen one for Ottawa-Toronto) from like Ottawa to Edmonton for like $150 + tax. Maybe VIA is better for other routes, but from the loving capital to Toronto on such a short line being this expensive just seems absurd to me. I like the train, I would even pay a little more for the luxury, but a Bus is $47 and a rideshare is $30 each way, in all the circumstances I've seen the train is way more than these options. And it take the same amount of time.
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Aug 15, 2013 20:05
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JoelJoel posted:Please send me a link for these under $40 trains. Right now the summer super crazy savings have Toronto-Ottawa at $99 each way for business class. I think it's about $80 for a regular. I just priced out a round trip for those dates at $155 if you check RIGHT NOW.
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Aug 15, 2013 20:39
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JohnnyCanuck posted:I just priced out a round trip for those dates at $155 if you check RIGHT NOW. Yes, I checked it out. One way has a web only for 45 and the business for 112. My previous one was just economy there and back because that is usually all that is available during non summer times. I still think $155 is pretty drat high. A lot more than under $40.
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Aug 15, 2013 20:47
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JoelJoel posted:Maybe VIA is better for other routes, but from the loving capital to Toronto on such a short line being this expensive just seems absurd to me. I like the train, I would even pay a little more for the luxury, but a Bus is $47 and a rideshare is $30 each way, in all the circumstances I've seen the train is way more than these options. And it take the same amount of time. So yeah. Taking the greyhound to Ottawa is around $30 cheaper and is sometimes of comparable length to VIA (though the fastest VIA train on that route is 30 minutes faster than the Greyhound). This is not the case for all places along VIA's route. Edit: and though I rarely take inter-city buses any longer, I have never, ever been on one with wifi. Or even power outlets. Maybe that's changed in the last two years, but my god, after the greyhound trips I took in the weeks before my impromptu VIA trip it was like walking into commuter heaven. lonelywurm fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 20:49
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I am 155, and there is only the basic escape sale on now. You have to prowl to get lower but it starts getting really cheap if you book 2+weeks advance. Yea, I don't properly consider the 20/30 dollar difference sometimes is a big deal. That is legitimately my bad. Also, given I travel via so often my points add to a free trip every 3 or so, so that's factored in (IMO via has one of the best and most reasonable points programs out there).
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Aug 15, 2013 20:49
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lonelywurm posted:One time, I flew back to Toronto Pearson right as my then-girlfriend was in hospital in Kingston (it turned out to be nothing much but I was freaked). I wanted to get there as quickly as I could (since I'd already spent three hours on a plane and 7 on a greyhound). A another greyhound to Kingston out of downtown Toronto would have cost me $100 and I'd need to wait until almost 1 AM to board an 11 hour bus trip. To loving Kingston. On the other hand, just across the road, I was able to buy a VIA ticket to Kingston that left in an hour, took less than two and a half hours, and cost me $75. Your problem stemmed from the fact that Greyhound doesn't do a direct route to Kingston - MegaBus/Coach Canada have had the route for a while, running about once an hour, for about $40 each way. VIA's prices are pretty hard to justify any way you cut it. Edit: make that $15-$30. StrangeWhatLoveDoes fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 20:54
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For what they offer it just seems like I should be able to go to the train station the day off and pick up a one way ticket for 40-50 bucks, not have to book a month in advance with a summer deal and still pay like $80 each way. e: I've written a strongly worded letter to VIA. I'm sure this will all be sorted out within 48-hours. Cocaine Bear fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 20:54
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StrangeWhatLoveDoes posted:Your problem stemmed from the fact that Greyhound doesn't do a direct route to Kingston - MegaBus/Coach Canada have had the route for a while, running about once an hour, for about $40 each way. VIA's prices are pretty hard to justify any way you cut it.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:00
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Last year, via received more money in government funding than they made from ticket sales. Passenger fares don't even cover the cost of their employees. They got around $350,000,000 from the government to cover their operating losses, at $5-$10 million per km of track it would cost to build high speed rail, The cost of subsidizing via rail running mostly empty trains around could build about 1/6th of the high speed rail network to link toronto to ottawa, or around 1/10th of the high speed rail network linking toronto to montreal. 10 years worth of what the government pumps into via rail's slow, expensive service could build a high speed rail network putting over 1/3 of canada's population within a 2 hour train ride of eachother. When it's no longer cheaper/faster to drive, who would bother? One way from paris to lyon is $87, takes roughly 2 hours, travels roughly the same distance, and with paris at 12 mil metro population, and lyon at 2.1 mil, it's not radically different from 5.6mil toronto/3.8 mil montreal/1.2 mil ottawa.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:27
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Powershift posted:Last year, via received more money in government funding than they made from ticket sales. Passenger fares don't even cover the cost of their employees. They got around $350,000,000 from the government to cover their operating losses, at $5-$10 million per km of track it would cost to build high speed rail, The cost of subsidizing via rail running mostly empty trains around could build about 1/6th of the high speed rail network to link toronto to ottawa, or around 1/10th of the high speed rail network linking toronto to montreal. This sounds like more propaganda for the war on the poor, maligned automotive industry and its drivers  Surprisingly France still has people that drive cars, but none that commute from Paris to the south. Their high speed rails are what allows me to live in Paris and commute to work over 300km away in only 50 minutes.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:42
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To me, it sounds like an argument for a more effective but still publicly ran alternative to the half-assed PPP that is viarail, with the end result of nobody driving being a desirable goal, not a scare word.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:46
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Mr. Wynand posted:To me, it sounds like an argument for a more effective but still publicly ran alternative to the half-assed PPP that is viarail, with the end result of nobody driving being a desirable goal, not a scare word. There is a significant portion of the population that sincerely believes the government wants to take their cars away and make driving illegal. Any effort to reduce the number of unneccesary cars on the road through improvement to mass transit services is part of a secret (or not so secret) plot (AGENDA 21!!!!) to control the population because cars = freedom.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:50
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Leofish posted:There is a significant portion of the population that sincerely believes the government wants to take their cars away and make driving illegal. Any effort to reduce the number of unneccesary cars on the road through improvement to mass transit services is part of a secret (or not so secret) plot (AGENDA 21!!!!) to control the population because cars = freedom. I would be totally down with making cars illegal. If our society could afford it.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:59
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Illegal seems like a step too far; can't take the bus to camping after all. Expensive enough to discourage everyday use though? I'm down.
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Aug 15, 2013 22:23
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Illegal seems like a step too far; can't take the bus to camping after all. I take the coop car camping all the time 
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Aug 15, 2013 22:30
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PittTheElder posted:Illegal seems like a step too far; can't take the bus to camping after all. This is what they do in Singapore. I was in a MA class with a Singaporean urban planner, and one time he expressed totally befuddlement verging on professional outrage at how little we do to manage the number of cars on the road through permitting. He pointed out that you do demand-side management for pretty much every other type of infrastructure, so why not roads as well?
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Aug 15, 2013 22:37
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Fine-able Offense posted:This is what they do in Singapore. I was in a MA class with a Singaporean urban planner, and one time he expressed totally befuddlement verging on professional outrage at how little we do to manage the number of cars on the road through permitting. He pointed out that you do demand-side management for pretty much every other type of infrastructure, so why not roads as well? Because auto manufacturing economy jobs, duh.
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Aug 15, 2013 22:41
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Y'all On the other hand, here's why you don't do it: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/29/opinion/krugman-stranded-by-sprawl.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France Obviously congestion charging has nothing to do with riots in Parisian suburbs. The greater point is that you don't want keep your underclasses segregated to the geographical and thus economic fringes. namaste friends fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 22:49
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I read recently that VIARail is planning on going full-on airport security theatre within the next few years as a response to that terrorist cell the Mounties busted a while ago before they could do anything. This loving sucks. I always bring a big hunting knife and weed with me when I go traveling; drat you VIA I'm not buying local weed!  Paper Jam Dipper posted:The VIA in my hometown laid off the wicket folks and replaced them with a ticket machine. Same, it's depressing to see the empty building. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Aug 16, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 23:28
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JoelJoel posted:Side note: anyone take the Greyhound often? For reasons I can't comprehend they search your bags and give you a pat down when departing from Ottawa but not when departing from Toronto. Yeah, I know a crazy guy did a horrible crazy thing on a bus 5 years ago, but is this really necessary? Will I soon have to take my shoes off and pitch any bottles with more than 100ml of liquid? Greyhound checks at every station they operate at, at various frequencies. Some times get much less checks than others. I would say Montreal buses at 21:00 and 22:30 Sunday nights check bags as often as Ottawa buses Friday evenings. It's a company directive. Because of poo poo like Vince Li in Manitoba, you're not allowed razors, nail files, scissors and the like on any carry-on luggage. If it is put underneath, they don't care. Liquids are fine, no booze obviously. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Greyhound bus to catch...
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Aug 15, 2013 23:33
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Kintarooooo posted:Liquids are fine, no booze obviously. I think you mean "no obvious booze".
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Aug 15, 2013 23:41
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lonelywurm posted:One time, I flew back to Toronto Pearson right as my then-girlfriend was in hospital in Kingston (it turned out to be nothing much but I was freaked). I wanted to get there as quickly as I could (since I'd already spent three hours on a plane and 7 on a greyhound). A another greyhound to Kingston out of downtown Toronto would have cost me $100 and I'd need to wait until almost 1 AM to board an 11 hour bus trip. To loving Kingston. On the other hand, just across the road, I was able to buy a VIA ticket to Kingston that left in an hour, took less than two and a half hours, and cost me $75. A couple of years ago my girlfriend and I moved the West Coast to Kingston and Montreal, respectively, and we alternated traveling from the one city to the other each weekend to visit. At first we were awed by how cheaply you could travel around compared to in BC, marveling at having the option to take the train, which when booked ahead of time cost about $80 round trip. But then we discovered Megabus and never looked back. We would keep an eye on the website and book tickets as soon as the calendar opened up, and we almost always booked seats at good times for $1-10 each way (more often than not we got the $1 tickets). You really can't beat that if you're traveling along a route that Megabus services. The only problem is that they advertised having wifi on every trip, but in reality it was working only about 10% of the time, and even then it usually cut out at some point. When I had to visit a friend in Ottawa and take the Greyhound from Montreal, it was way more expensive and worse. The moral of the story therefore is to travel between only Toronto, Kingston, or Montreal.
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Aug 15, 2013 23:42
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Then again 1 dollar is more than it costs for Internet for 4 hours at some places. So who can complain, really.
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Aug 15, 2013 23:50
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Kintarooooo posted:Greyhound checks at every station they operate at, at various frequencies. Some times get much less checks than others. I would say Montreal buses at 21:00 and 22:30 Sunday nights check bags as often as Ottawa buses Friday evenings. It's a company directive. Because of poo poo like Vince Li in Manitoba, you're not allowed razors, nail files, scissors and the like on any carry-on luggage. If it is put underneath, they don't care. Liquids are fine, no booze obviously. If you mean they check bags to some degree everywhere I have to call BS. I've taken the bus out of Toronto dozens of times over the last two years, most recently about maybe 4 months ago and I've never been searched, seen someone searched, or been informed that I may be searched. I've departed middle of the night, middle of the day, and early morning. I suppose I could have been very very lucky, or they only started doing it in the last few months, but I've never even heard of any of my friends being search there. I've NEVER been let on a but from Ottawa without some mouth breathing fucktwit touching all my stuff and asking me what's in my water bottle. gently caress I hate bullshit security measures. Can't wait for someone to try and sneak a home made bomb in their, I don't know, hat let's say, so we can completely outlaw them on trains, plains, and, well, buses, I guess. e: jealous about the Mega Bus. No service to Ottawa.
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Aug 15, 2013 23:52
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Cultural Imperial posted:Y'all
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Aug 16, 2013 00:05
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Ofc. Sex Robot BPD posted:How many underclass people have to drive their own cars in to a city core often enough for congestion charging to be an issue? Seriously, everyone knows that poor's can't own cars! Come on. But honestly I tend to agree with Robot that the aforementioned is probably so small an instance as to not be an issue.
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Aug 16, 2013 00:42
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JoelJoel posted:If you mean they check bags to some degree everywhere I have to call BS. I've taken the bus out of Toronto dozens of times over the last two years, most recently about maybe 4 months ago and I've never been searched, seen someone searched, or been informed that I may be searched. I've departed middle of the night, middle of the day, and early morning. I suppose I could have been very very lucky, or they only started doing it in the last few months, but I've never even heard of any of my friends being search there. I've NEVER been let on a but from Ottawa without some mouth breathing fucktwit touching all my stuff and asking me what's in my water bottle. I doubt your claim. I ride almost weekly (commuter fare OTT-MTL is 400 for 20 one way trips). The frisk rate for my trips is about 25 to 30 percent. Time of day affects the frisk rate. Leaving at 00:00 or 5 am drops the frisk rate to 10 and 0 percent. It has been going down in 2013. Only Greyhound does it now. Montreal station has two separate security details because of that. On the plus side, no bag checks tonight. Yay.
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Aug 16, 2013 01:15
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What i don't understand is, in the case of the bus, what the gently caress is someone gonna do with/on a bus? What makes a bus so fundamentally different than say, a restaurant, that means everybody getting on it has to be searched? It's a room with chairs that happens to travel down the road. Hell, the restaurant even provides you knives. If somebody loses their head in a restaurant are we going to start getting frisked at the door and have our steaks come pre-cut? Why the hell would someone highjack a bus to hit something with it when you can rent a similarly sized u-haul for fifty bucks?
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Aug 16, 2013 08:34
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Powershift posted:What i don't understand is, in the case of the bus, what the gently caress is someone gonna do with/on a bus? To be fair sitting on a greyhound bus for 8 hours will drive anyone crazy, and I don't want them to have easy access to a gun or a knife when that happens. In all seriousness, it seems to me that people are much more likely to try to sneak weapons or drugs onto a bus travelling from one city to another than they are to bring them into a restaurant - especially if they are going to be staying at that other location for more than a couple days. I mean you see people getting on a greyhound bus carrying 2 full duffle bags with god knows what in them, typically if you're just going about your daily business you leave all that poo poo at home.
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Aug 16, 2013 09:33
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Powershift posted:What i don't understand is, in the case of the bus, what the gently caress is someone gonna do with/on a bus? Are you actually having trouble figuring out the different mentalities between going to a restaurant and going on a bus to somewhere else? Here's a hint: One of these things changes location
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Aug 16, 2013 11:24
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Maybe not a restaurant, but you can also be searched at sports venues and night clubs. It isn't always about transporting contraband or hijacking things, some times the powers that be don't want you throwing poo poo, drinking for free, or killing each other.
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Aug 16, 2013 12:20
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