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Thread has come full circle. People making fun of people buying Nordost cables for $5,000 when they could just go buy a BJC for $35. Now people buying the $35 cables are being made fun of for not buying $1 cables.
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 04:29 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:57 |
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Philthy posted:Thread has come full circle. People making fun of people buying Nordost cables for $5,000 when they could just go buy a BJC for $35. Now people buying the $35 cables are being made fun of for not buying $1 cables. Umm, if it had come "full circle" we'd be now making fun of the people buy $1 cables because they didn't buy $5,000 Nordost ones.
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 04:33 |
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You're all idiots, I mean why even bother listening to music in your house. Alone. Like a loser? GO OUTSIDE, NERDS.
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 12:12 |
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This just hit me: Shouldn't live music be the only real pure form of music? Is there some exception because live concerts doesn't allow you to buy excessive amounts of really expensive electronics?
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 13:41 |
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I saw a load of posts and thought "cool, something awesome must have been posted and we're all having a fun time deconstructing it" but no. We have like 2 pages of people discussing whether $1 cable is better or worse than $5 cable.
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 14:23 |
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Boiled Water posted:This just hit me: Shouldn't live music be the only real pure form of music? Is there some exception because live concerts doesn't allow you to buy excessive amounts of really expensive electronics? What keeps audiophiles out of the live sound business is you have to actually understand audio and acoustics, you have to aggressively manipulate audio (not just fill the signal chain with "natural" sounding things), and you will be judged based on what other people think, not what you think.
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 15:17 |
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Getting back to actual science and using the correct hardware in the correct place. Not all RCA outputs are created equally.wikipedia posted:A line level describes a line's nominal signal level as a ratio, expressed in decibels, against a standard reference voltage... So according to wikipedia, consumer level hardware should have a line out of about half a volt, and professional equipment should be about 1.5 volts. I think that modern consumer equipment probably goes up towards the pro range, just based on how low I can turn amplifiers and how well I can drive headphones, but I could be wrong about that. So absolutely, if you're putting out 1.5 volts and then getting a millivolt of noise induced into your RCA cables because they're not shielded very well, you're not going to be able to hear that at all. Getting back to a case that was discussed just a few pages ago; RCA cable quality matters significantly when carrying unamplified phonograph output. wikipedia posted:A "phono input" is a set of input jacks, usually RCA jacks, located on the rear panel of a preamp, mixer or amplifier, especially on early radio sets, to which a phonograph or turntable is attached. Modern styli (phonograph needles) and phono cartridges give a very low level output signal of the order of a few millivolts which the circuitry amplifies and equalizes. If your carrying a signal of only a few millivolts, then you absolutely will hear it when you have a millivolt of noise induced on your coathanger RCA cable. This article describes the standard RCA input output as being 1 volt. If you don't have a use for high end cables, then don't use them. I almost always use monoprice's premium cables. Maybe I'd be fine with the $0.88 cables instead of the $4 cables. I recognize though that other people have different needs than I do.
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 19:22 |
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The turntable connection is essentially balanced though so it shouldn't pick up much noise. The amount of noise induced from EM fields also depends on what the input and output impedances are for the equipment used and aside from turntables the standard for RCA jack impedances is "whatever the hell you feel like".
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# ? Aug 11, 2013 20:14 |
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Opensourcepirate posted:If your carrying a signal of only a few millivolts, then you absolutely will hear it when you have a millivolt of noise induced on your coathanger RCA cable. Show me something double-blind tested. e: like are you a BJC rep or something because it's literally all you post about in this thread. Khablam fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Aug 11, 2013 |
# ? Aug 11, 2013 23:20 |
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You're right that I don't really know how much induction can be expected. I know that I've had problems with humming on phonographs before. Maybe my problem was bad grounding rather than bad RCA cables. I have no connection to Blue Jeans Cable or any other vendor. My most recent post was mostly because it seems to me that some people in this thread are using the logic that if they haven't had issues with cheap products in their specific home setups, then no one else is allowed to. I'm personally on the side of wanting equipment that I can be rough with. I would recommend that everyone in this thread use cables that meet their specific needs. If you use the cheapest cable you can find meets those needs, then absolutely go for it. Edit: To be clear. I wasn't trying to say that everyone with a phonograph needs a high end cable. I was trying to point out that it's silly to assume that a cable that carries a signal of 1V with no problems will also carry a signal of a few mV with no problems. I did not mean to imply that the 88 cent cable definitely will not perform adequately. Opensourcepirate fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Aug 12, 2013 |
# ? Aug 12, 2013 01:11 |
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By simply moving my hand near my turntables RCA cables before it hit the pre-amp, I could hear significant noise through my headphones. It was like I was playing a very lovely theremin. I ripped those cables out, installed RCA jacks and bought BJCs as interconnects. Zero audible noise. Could I have gotten away with monoprice premium cables instead? Maybe. But the BJC cables are ridiculously nice, build quality wise. I'll probably have them forever.
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# ? Aug 12, 2013 03:17 |
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I just ordered a preamp and some monoprice cables so I can finally listen to my vinyl again. I hope the cables do the job. Most of my equipment and speakers is stuff I've cobbled together for almost nothing over the years so I'm not expecting any miracles.
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# ? Aug 12, 2013 04:19 |
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Boiled Water posted:This just hit me: Shouldn't live music be the only real pure form of music? Is there some exception because live concerts doesn't allow you to buy excessive amounts of really expensive electronics? If there are PA speakers involved there's nothing 'pure' about it, all the house gear and the engineer exist to turn a bunch of competing instruments into something clean and listenable. Even if you're just listening to what's coming off the stage it still depends on how the space has been treated and where you're standing. Sound is complicated. Music on a studio release has been sculpted from a raw mass of conflicting frequencies into a listenable form, unless you're Iggy Pop. Same goes for live sound
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# ? Aug 12, 2013 19:47 |
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The only true hifi experience is a choir, singing perfectly in tune an acoustically completely dead room.
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# ? Aug 13, 2013 12:58 |
baka kaba posted:If there are PA speakers involved there's nothing 'pure' about it, all the house gear and the engineer exist to turn a bunch of competing instruments into something clean and listenable. Even if you're just listening to what's coming off the stage it still depends on how the space has been treated and where you're standing.
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 00:00 |
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Socket Ryanist posted:This is why I usually prefer to see bands in small spaces where you actually get the sound from each instrument separately. Your ear and brain do a much better job of mixing the sound than an engineer on a board ever could. In that case you're relying on the band members to know how and why they need to set their own EQ, which usually means you're being cheerfully optimistic. If they're pro then they'll make sure they're carving out a frequency niche so they all fit well together, which is what an engineer is there for anyway. Otherwise you get guitarists dialing in their bedroom tone that sounds AWESOME DUDE solo, and either sounds like a bee in a jar or turns into a honking booming mess when everyone's playing at once. I have been in one of those bands
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 01:14 |
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I've never known a band be able to EQ themselves properly. "I'm lead guitar, I should be louder than everyone else by a large margin!" It's usually the bass player that gets a raw deal and he usually doesn't know how to set his tone properly anyway... "I play bass so the bass knob on my amp is turned way up because bass, right?!" and the end result is the guitarist being loud as gently caress, the drummer trying to go louder and the bass player just kicking out a fuckton of midrange and the entire thing sounds poo poo.
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 09:42 |
Well if the room isn't too echoey, then all of the sounds are coming from different directions which makes them stay separate much more than when they're all coming out of the same speakers. Although I should say I'm mostly thinking of older and "quieter" bands here, not your typical teen or 20-something rock band where everyone's fighting to be the loudest instrument.
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 12:37 |
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88h88 posted:I've never known a band be able to EQ themselves properly. "I'm lead guitar, I should be louder than everyone else by a large margin!" It's usually the bass player that gets a raw deal and he usually doesn't know how to set his tone properly anyway... "I play bass so the bass knob on my amp is turned way up because bass, right?!" and the end result is the guitarist being loud as gently caress, the drummer trying to go louder and the bass player just kicking out a fuckton of midrange and the entire thing sounds poo poo. Why do you hate punk rock?
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 15:28 |
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Socket Ryanist posted:Well if the room isn't too echoey, then all of the sounds are coming from different directions which makes them stay separate much more than when they're all coming out of the same speakers. It doesn't even need to be people trying to be loudest, just that when you have all the instruments occupying the same frequencies nobody can hear themselves properly, so they think they're too quiet and turn up and make the whole thing worse. The REAL loudness war... If it's anyone with a decent bit of touring experience they probably know what they're doing by now. But yeah, point is live music isn't 'pure' in any sense of the word, it's raw and organic and depends a lot on the physicality of the space and your position in it. It's entirely subjective, so audiophiles can't make changes and ~objectively~ compare and say 'wow THAT wasn't there before! Or it wasn't so crisp and warm'
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 15:40 |
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88h88 posted:I've never known a band be able to EQ themselves properly. "I'm lead guitar, I should be louder than everyone else by a large margin!" It's usually the bass player that gets a raw deal and he usually doesn't know how to set his tone properly anyway... "I play bass so the bass knob on my amp is turned way up because bass, right?!" and the end result is the guitarist being loud as gently caress, the drummer trying to go louder and the bass player just kicking out a fuckton of midrange and the entire thing sounds poo poo. Or Lemmy, who turns off the high and low, cranks the mid to max, and turns up Murder One to 11, and then plays the bass like a guitar.
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 16:51 |
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jonathan posted:Or Lemmy, who turns off the high and low, cranks the mid to max, and turns up Murder One to 11, and then plays the bass like a guitar. Everything louder than everything else
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# ? Aug 14, 2013 19:57 |
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Many years ago I did professional sound reinforcement (i.e. I set up everything and ran it for concerts). The trick to live music is getting the band to actually show up and cooperate for sound-checks. The key to sound-checks wasn't really about the house sound, it was about getting the *monitor* mix right. If the monitor mix is right, the band members all think they are getting what they want in the house (they aren't, the house gets what *I* want), so they are happy and just play their music. The house sound gets mixed so that it sounds good to me, with the help of lots of really cool equipment to stay ahead of building idiosyncrasies and feedback. The down side of the business is that everyone on the musician side treats you like poo poo (or a servant), and if you do EVERYTHING perfect, the best compliment you can possibly hope to get, is when not a single person complains, because nobody in the house (or on the stage) realized that you were even doing anything. On the subject at hand, unless there is no 'sound guy' (I guess they are calling themselves engineers these days) at the venue, and no amplification, there is no such thing as non-EQ'ed live music. Street music with a few strings or some brass would probably come the closest, and it's rare to find more than two instruments that sound good together in a live environment without some sort of mixing/EQ. Caveat: I don't live in a place where live street music is common at all, so I'm sure I've missed some.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 03:48 |
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jonathan fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Aug 16, 2013 |
# ? Aug 16, 2013 04:07 |
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Would've carried more weight without the spelling mistake grack fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Aug 16, 2013 |
# ? Aug 16, 2013 05:00 |
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That's not the american spelling? My neighbour at the harbour told me you guys hated the letter U.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 05:14 |
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I think that's only if it ends in an -r Glamor, favor, flavor, armor, valor, author, etc.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 06:02 |
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I think I win the thread now, close it down, make a new one. http://www.goldensound.com/productlist/next-generation-audio-accessories The Quantum Light posted:The flashing lights from this device will regularize the quantum movement in audio equipment and thus improve the clarity of the sound. There are several ways to use this light: (1) Flash it on the CD and DVD for a few seconds, you will hear improved sound and see enhanced pictures. (2) flash it on all the wires, including interconnect wires, video wires, digital wires and power cords and equipment, you will get better sound and sharper pictures. (3) Flash it on any instrument from violin, guitar, piano or synthesizer, you will get a better sound when you play. There are some side benefits to human health: Flash it on the wounded area of your body for a few minutes, it will improve the circulation of the blood which may help to reduce the pain and may heal the wounds faster. Flash it to certain pressure points of your body to improve your health, e.g.. a few minutes to the center bottom of your foot may help you sleep better. Benefits to your drink: Flash it a few seconds to your cheap wine will help it taste smoother and bring out the original grape flavor. However, flashing light against expensive wine may simplify its taste, therefore, it is not recommended. It even manages to touch on wine connoisseurs. BOOM. Ultra tweeters posted:Description/Theory: These remarkable, next generation audio devices, sold in pairs, operate at extremely high frequencies -- much higher than the audio band, actually in the microwave band, above 1 Gigahertz (GHz). Ultra Tweeters are connected to the output terminals of existing speakers with thin, flexible cables provided. Ultra Tweeter's principle of operation is very unconventional - they don't generate frequencies in the audio band or even in the 20-100 KHz band like super-tweeters, but in the Gigahertz frequency band (normally used for satellite and microwave communications). Please .. someone ... uncover this as a hoax
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 10:38 |
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quote:(normally used for satellite and microwave communications) Are these the good kind or bad kind of microwaves? I can imagine someone sitting listening to their music slowly getting cooked from the inside out.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 14:20 |
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88h88 posted:Are these the good kind or bad kind of microwaves? I can imagine someone sitting listening to their music slowly getting cooked from the inside out. They probably don't emit any kind of waves.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 14:24 |
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Would be hilarious if they actually worked and produced a signal in the GHz range, they'd have the FCC on them so fast it's not even funny.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 17:40 |
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88h88 posted:Are these the good kind or bad kind of microwaves? I can imagine someone sitting listening to their music slowly getting cooked from the inside out. They're soundwaves (vibrations in the air) not microwaves, a particular frequency range of EM radiation. It's completely bogus.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 17:44 |
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Khablam posted:They're soundwaves (vibrations in the air) not microwaves, a particular frequency range of EM radiation. I used this calculator to work out the power loss of a 1 GHz signal in air 1598225 dB/m
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 19:05 |
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grack posted:Would've carried more weight without the spelling mistake Good band name though
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 19:20 |
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longview posted:I used this calculator to work out the power loss of a 1 GHz signal in air Even better: Assuming a throw of .1mm, the diaphragm would be accelerating from 0 to 223,694mph to 0 every cycle, or around 293 times the speed of sound.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 20:15 |
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I was looking for a local place to pick up a volume control pot and I found this:http://www.partsconnexion.com/bybee_purifiers.htmlquote:Small Slipstream Quantum Purifier, Each Now I'm not sure I trust them enough to buy a volume knob from them.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 20:25 |
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The Locator posted:On the subject at hand, unless there is no 'sound guy' (I guess they are calling themselves engineers these days) at the venue, and no amplification, there is no such thing as non-EQ'ed live music. Street music with a few strings or some brass would probably come the closest, and it's rare to find more than two instruments that sound good together in a live environment without some sort of mixing/EQ. Caveat: I don't live in a place where live street music is common at all, so I'm sure I've missed some. I think you're missing some good opportunities to hear acoustic live music. Doesn't your locality have a concert hall w/ orchestra, or a church w/ choir or organ? I'd say that the most "in-tune" music possible is produced by a really good brass band (the English meaning of the word), or a really good chamber choir. Anything else usually only plays tempered scales, so no intervals are really in tune.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 21:33 |
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TomR posted:I was looking for a local place to pick up a volume control pot and I found this:http://www.partsconnexion.com/bybee_purifiers.html I do appreciate that they crossed out the original price, and then displayed the exact same price next to it, just bolded.
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# ? Aug 16, 2013 21:51 |
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How you feel about this will depend on your thoughts about what happens after you die. I'll say one thing though, the thought of someone uploading a bunch of poo poo I hated just to be a oval office would make me haunt their rear end from beyond the grave. Introducing a coffin with an 'audiophile' speaker setup. http://catacombosoundsystem.com/index.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDpC5ZYcA7M quote:CataCoffin
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# ? Aug 18, 2013 11:37 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:57 |
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88h88 posted:
My coffin only plays Cannibal Corpse. Entrails torn from a Virgin's oval office on repeat 24/7.
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# ? Aug 18, 2013 11:56 |