|
Mega64 posted:The After Years is the only game I can really think of where the best characters story-wise are also the best characters combat-wise. None of them??
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 18:05 |
|
|
Gologle posted:Oh right, you're that "Edward lover". This is counterintuitive as hell but he's actually the absolute worst at guns in the game because he has a longer firing animation with guns than any other character. Are you playing vanilla FFXII or IZJS? If its vanilla just build him in whatever direction you need to go to cover your bases and buy a different weapon for him that isn't a gun. Katana's and ninja swords are dope, dope weapons and king of DPS so if thats what you want pick them. Although I don't remember if every shop sells them from the start of the game like IZJS does so if vanilla take that with a grain of salt.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:19
|
|
|
MrAristocrates posted:Oh, IZJS gets rid of the Zodiac Spear bullshit? That's good, thought I hosed myself out of it earlier in this run. Fleeing through the Necrohol to get the Zodiac Spear dozens of hours/levels before your characters have any right being in that area is probably the most exciting gameplay aspect in any FF. Shame if they took that out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:20
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Oh right, you're that "Edward lover". Gunner  It's less then a second difference and way more stylish.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:22
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:The After Years is the only game I can really think of where the best characters story-wise are also the best characters combat-wise. I'd say FFVI largely aligned with this too, with the exception of, like, Gau.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:24
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Oh right, you're that "Edward lover". I only love Edward in The After Years, where he can heal the entire party for 4000 HP each, has a chance of Hasting the entire party, and later on can hang with the heavy hitters in damage with his end-game harps. He's not nearly as great in the original, which is why Rydia makes fun of him and Cecil punches his blubbering face. fronz posted:None of them?? The game didn't ruin all its characters, simply most of them. Edge and Edward are suddenly complete badasses, and Palom's pretty solid as well, plus some of the new characters like Luca, Ursula, and Leonora were alright. e: dukerson posted:I'd say FFVI largely aligned with this too, with the exception of, like, Gau. That's more because everyone can be the best character in FF6, unless you're a huge Umaro fan. Terra and Celes get awesome equipment and learn a few spells from leveling, Edgar trivializes the WoB with Tools, Sabin trivializes boss fights with Blitzes, Setzer has Fixed Dice, Locke has Valiant Knife, Relm can get you 99 Illuminas, and Gogo can do all of the above. Even if it's someone like Cyan, Gem Box + Econimizer makes anyone the best character. Mega64 fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Aug 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:In FFV, when Lenna leaves your party, it's probably relevant in more than just having a warm body. You've lost access to the collection of abilities she has accrued. Unless you've been obsessively grinding everyone to the point where everyone can do everything (which would probably mean everything's difficulty is pretty trivial anyway) then her departure means something. Basically, you are given the freedom to define what Lenna is, but she still has definitions. What she is, is not something you can just transfer. In FF7, when Aeris dies or Cloud leaves, you just take all their materia and stick them on someone else. I dunno, I'm inclined to disagree with this. Unless you were setting Lenna up to be your primary martial damage dealer (and why would you, when her stats don't suit it), basically any role she performed can be covered by someone else in a pinch. All of the magical jobs are quite easily dropped into and used in a pinch (so if she was your healer, someone else can easily cover that just by jumping into White Mage for a bit), and Thief's most useful element, !Flee, is super easy to obtain (I think it's like 30 AP to get?). Plus, you can run from basically everything in the Pyramid and Melusine is one of the easiest bosses in the game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:33
|
|
|
Having Edward of all people turn out to be kind of a badass is proof enough that After Years is all kinds of hosed up storywise. He's even fairly competent in his storyline moments which is pretty jarring after however many hours of Ceodore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:38
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Gunner Which is why I kept him as the gunner in my first playthrough. But now I've got a lust for something different and objectively better. My primary party has always been Ashe, Balthier, and Basch, because gently caress using anybody else against anybody that isn't Yiazmat, and this playthrough I'm thinking of making Ashe the samurai, Balthier the ninja, and Basch the dragoon. No, I'm NOT going to be using whatever messed up names the IZJS uses for them, they are Samurai, Ninja, and Dragoon. The After Years was just "passable to decent" when you get down to it. I actually really loved Yang's Tale because of the interaction with his daughter (and because I love Monks and having a full party of monks fisting everything in their path was wicked badass), and I liked Kain's Tale, and Palom/Polom's stories too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
Fight Club Sandwich posted:Fleeing through the Necrohol to get the Zodiac Spear dozens of hours/levels before your characters have any right being in that area is probably the most exciting gameplay aspect in any FF. Shame if they took that out. They just changed it so that instead of chests having a chance to drop things certain chests are now one-time guaranteed drops of items/equipment/spells. For items and equipment this is great but for spells its a terrible, terrible idea. Honestly thats really the only major mistep of FFXII:IZJS but every other change is so good it all works out. Heck unlike the idiots who redisgned FFIII they also took care to make sure the new system doesn't ruin the underlying mechanics like in the case of the new quickenings. They don't key off of your mp pool and no longer double/triple your magic. To make up for that reduction in MP size leveling increases of MP are now much, much more substantial so that you can still cast all your spells just as you would have in the original. Barudak fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:47
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:I dunno, I'm inclined to disagree with this. Unless you were setting Lenna up to be your primary martial damage dealer (and why would you, when her stats don't suit it), Uh, Lenna has highest magic, magic is by far the most powerful thing in FFV and MP is trivial so yes her stats do suit it. Barudak posted:(Sleep for example is easily and permanently missable) No it isn't. There is a chest that has sleep in the Levithan, yes, but if you miss it another chest with Sleep appears in the Sandsea.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:50
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:No it isn't. There is a chest that has sleep in the Levithan, yes, but if you miss it another chest with Sleep appears in the Sandsea. Oh thats fantastic to know. I assumed if I hadn't found it there I wouldn't be able to get it again. Thats at least an improvement on it but I'm still not thrilled with things like Haste being exploration rewards.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 18:52
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:I dunno, I'm inclined to disagree with this. Unless you were setting Lenna up to be your primary martial damage dealer (and why would you, when her stats don't suit it), basically any role she performed can be covered by someone else in a pinch. All of the magical jobs are quite easily dropped into and used in a pinch (so if she was your healer, someone else can easily cover that just by jumping into White Mage for a bit), and Thief's most useful element, !Flee, is super easy to obtain (I think it's like 30 AP to get?). Doesn't that mean that jobs are poorly differentiated, not characters, then?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:01
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:Doesn't that mean that jobs are poorly differentiated, not characters, then? The characters are differentiated only by their jobs. They are blank slates initially who then become defined by their stats and skills earned via their jobs. This isn't a complicated issue.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:08
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Uh, Lenna has highest magic, magic is by far the most powerful thing in FFV and MP is trivial so yes her stats do suit it. That's why I said "martial damage dealer", as in things using weapons. You're probably not slotting !Rapid Fire on her unless you're doing a challenge run or something, which was my point.  Defiance Industries posted:Doesn't that mean that jobs are poorly differentiated, not characters, then? No, it just means that magical jobs can be used without any investment to their full potential by being that job. Martial jobs like Ranger, Ninja, etc. usually need significant investment to get the poignant abilities that you want from them (like Dual Wield in jobs that aren't Ninja, !Rapid Fire, etc). That's not a bad thing, either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:15
|
|
|
Gologle posted:No, I'm NOT going to be using whatever messed up names the IZJS uses for them, they are Samurai, Ninja, and Dragoon. That's fine if you're boring, or don't know what an uhlan is. FF12, though, calls the owlbear an urstrix for no reason other than because it could. And that's awesome.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:16
|
|
|
Oh wow, it's an actual thing that existed. That's actually pretty cool, I just assumed it was a made up word like "Magicks".
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:18
|
|
|
Fight Club Sandwich posted:Fleeing through the Necrohol to get the Zodiac Spear dozens of hours/levels before your characters have any right being in that area is probably the most exciting gameplay aspect in any FF. Shame if they took that out. Its actually still pretty worthwhile to head there at a low level and run around looting stuff. The spear ain't there anymore, but some good armor and magic is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:24
|
|
|
BottledBodhisvata posted:The characters are differentiated only by their jobs. They are blank slates initially who then become defined by their stats and skills earned via their jobs. Yes, and that is the difference between it and coatrack games where any character is wholly replaceable at any time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:33
|
|
|
They're not Dragoons unless they jump and that's final. I made Balthier a monk in IZJS because I could. Same reason Vaan was a White Mage and Penelo a Hunter. Why not? They're all reasonably effective anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 19:48
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Oh wow, it's an actual thing that existed. That's actually pretty cool, I just assumed it was a made up word like "Magicks". Magick is an actual word too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:08
|
|
|
All words are made up words.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
Dross posted:All words are made up words. False, the bird is undeniably the word.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
Saigyouji posted:Magick is an actual word too. That was made up by Alistair Crowley to distinguish between parlor tricks and "real magic" 
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:That was made up by Alistair Crowley to distinguish between parlor tricks and "real magic" Well, he co-opted it more than anything. It was used as far back as at least the 17th century.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:20
|
|
|
It should probably have stayed in that century.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:24
|
|
|
Saigyouji posted:Well, he co-opted it more than anything. It was used as far back as at least the 17th century. Which, given the overall flavor of the translation using older terms fits pretty well. I mean the game dropped the word "Skein" like it was no big thing and just kept on going and somebody cares that they spelled it "Magick"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
Fight Club Sandwich posted:Fleeing through the Necrohol to get the Zodiac Spear dozens of hours/levels before your characters have any right being in that area is probably the most exciting gameplay aspect in any FF. Shame if they took that out. Yeah, it can still definitely be worth going into areas that are way over your level, since pretty much all of them have several chests with guaranteed equipment, as opposed to vanilla. Although I find it funny that so many people laud the Zodiac Spear change, when it actually makes it harder to get. In the original game, as long as you knew to avoid a couple chests you could get the spear early, guaranteed, no strings attached. In IZJS, you can only get the spear from a chest with like a 1/10,000 odds (which was also an option in Vanilla), or by hunting a bunch of obscure rare monsters throughout the entire game and giving the trophies to specific people in specific amounts. This let you get the spear at the very end of the game, but requires you to miss out on some other powerful equipment. So yeah, that's WAY more fair and intuitive!  MarsDragon posted:They're not Dragoons unless they jump and that's final. The frustrating thing is there is actually a "Jump" attack already coded into the game. A neutral Bangaa sometimes spawns around Rabanastre that will use it on monsters. That would've been cool...
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:27
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Which, given the overall flavor of the translation using older terms fits pretty well. I mean the game dropped the word "Skein" like it was no big thing and just kept on going and somebody cares that they spelled it "Magick"? If you mean there's an item in FF12 called a skein, well, it's no secret I take issue with that game's entire translation, so.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:33
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:If you mean there's an item in FF12 called a skein, well, it's no secret I take issue with that game's entire translation, so. Its not an item; the senate talk about Vayne's tangled skein which is both a) a great time to use the word skein and b) its a literary reference to a book which has a general plot congrous with Vayne's own charcter arc. Seriously; the FFXII translation is fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:37
|
|
|
Saigyouji posted:Magick is an actual word too. It was a word. Now it's just an archaic spelling for one. Still less baffling than "technick" though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:38
|
|
|
BioMe posted:It was a word. Now it's just an archaic spelling for one. Still less baffling than "technick" though. Well, this is a series that has literally used spoony in its translations, so there's that. But yeah, technick is kind of bizarre.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:40
|
|
|
Monks are great.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:50
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Monks are great. True.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:51
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Monks are great. I don't know how viable it is late game but it was nice that there was license on the board as well as an equipment item that buffed how powerful unarmed combat was for that class. Is it any good or are you ultimately going to equip them with a weapon?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:52
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I don't know how viable it is late game but it was nice that there was license on the board as well as an equipment item that buffed how powerful unarmed combat was for that class. Is it any good or are you ultimately going to equip them with a weapon? It does enough damage that it could be viable, but definitely worse than using pretty much any other kind of weapon. Main problem is that the brawler ability and the amber amulet have the same effect and they don't stack so there isn't really a way to get much more damage out of it other than just gaining levels.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
What? No, I'm not using a Monk this run, I'm just saying that I love Monks and how everytime a Monk appears in a Final Fantasy they're almost always badass. Sabin, maybe Amarant, Yang, possibly Galuf, Vayne, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 21:00
|
|
|
Is there actually a game with monks where they don't pretty much have to start using magic/weapons to be viable in the endgame? I'm only coming up with FFI, and maybe FFVI, since blitzes continue to hold their own.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 21:00
|
|
|
Saigyouji posted:Is there actually a game with monks where they don't pretty much have to start using magic/weapons to be viable in the endgame? I'm only coming up with FFI, and maybe FFVI, since blitzes continue to hold their own. Monks are pretty awesome from beginning to end in FFT. And most monks in the series always did use weapons in the form of claws (although I guess Yang's didn't really add attack power, just an element).
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 21:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 18:05 |
|
|
Saigyouji posted:Is there actually a game with monks where they don't pretty much have to start using magic/weapons to be viable in the endgame? I'm only coming up with FFI, and maybe FFVI, since blitzes continue to hold their own.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 21:11
|
|
